|
I found this trilogy really frustrating to read. First had promise, the second two I count as essentially a complete waste of time. I downloaded a fan-made pdf containing a summary of the remaining plot. What a complete mess, and it doesn't even seem to end properly after 7 too-long books. What a mess. Truly astounding. Amethyst fucked around with this message at 06:26 on Dec 12, 2018 |
#
¿
Dec 12, 2018 05:49
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 14:51 |
|
|
Saubon kept getting referred to throughout the books as if I was supposed to care but I barely had an impression of the guy besides being a zealot.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 13, 2018 01:12
|
|
|
Which one was the guy Kellhus gave a prophecy that he'd take the walls of a city, who then became loyal to kellhus as a result? I thought that was Saubon. Man Kellhus' rise was so boring to read. God I hated these books
|
|
#
¿
Dec 13, 2018 01:27
|
|
|
Lunchmeat Larry posted:I am so glad I tapped out at the judging eye this sounds hilarious. He was just possesses by Satan all along? Imagine reading like 3500 pages and still not understanding the main protagonist's basic motives. The Bakker Experience. EDIT: Ok reading through this thread a bit more it's clear that he's just a sadist. Amethyst fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Dec 13, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Dec 13, 2018 01:51
|
|
|
Sephyr posted:A sadist at least derives some pleasure from hurting others. Kellhus is just a hollow godmode shitlord. Even when banging two of the hottest women in the setting he was just going to a dull gray place in his mind and meditating about the right alleles his offspring might have. Sorry for being unclear, I was referring to Bakker as the sadist. Your post is still right though.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 14, 2018 00:05
|
|
|
Crimpolioni posted:Out of curiosity, what was it you found interesting about the first book but not the sequels? The flaws are definitely present in the first book too, I guess I figured the plot would move forward, driving the characters into interesting territory. The plot moved at a snails pace and characters kept retreading the same ground over and over and over again.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 14, 2018 00:32
|
|
|
Sephyr posted:
lol. This is a good summation.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 14, 2018 01:02
|
|
|
I barely got an idea of who Proyas even is, to be honest. He seemed like a pretty generic nervous princeling until he fell under Kellhus' spell then he became just another lovely zombie.
|
|
#
¿
Dec 14, 2018 04:16
|
|
|
lol @ the edited OP Are the last couple of books seriously just pages and pages of rape and murder? Amethyst fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Jan 4, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Jan 4, 2019 07:04
|
|
|
Strom Cuzewon posted:
Oh.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 4, 2019 07:08
|
|
|
Memnaelar posted:I refuse to fully read the last book until I've got confirmation that he's going to actually write the last two. Whole lotta why bother. The publisher isn't interested. This series is dead. The series just got steadily worse. I got off after the first three books but having read the spoilers for the last book I can't imagine how ripped off people feel after reading the whole series. Like, after THAT many pages, this is the ending? Really?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 22, 2019 02:54
|
|
|
Tosk posted:I was shocked to see the thread resurrected when I randomly checked SA tonight. There are like 3 places on the Internet where this series is discussed, and at this point none of them very actively, haha. I don't really think they're that cerebral, to be honest. What philosophical insights did I miss? I kind of get that the dunyain are representative of the illusory nature of free will and that any attempt to escape the paradox will result in something monstrous and inhuman but I've seen that idea treated better elsewhere and also in less than three thousand pages.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 26, 2019 00:28
|
|
|
I have not read any of the second trilogy so I can't really say much about the idea of damnation and hell being real but reading the spoilers it just seems like a thin facade for garden variety sadomasochistic fantasy. The different schools of magic may have some kind of symbolic meaning but I wouldn't know because the novels are buried in extremely typical modern writing written in endless inner monologue format where characters agonize over their feelings for chapters on end. E: I think my main problem with this book, in the end, isn't that it wasn't smart enough. That's fine. The first book was actually ok, 3/5, because all the palace intrigue and stuff was fun. The problem was Kellhus. Man he was a drag to read. Mainly because he was supposed to be transcendentally charismatic and insightful. Even for an excellent writer, it would be hard to write this character convincingly. For an (let's be honest) amateur like Bakker, it's impossible. Kellhus constantly spouts banalities and everyone around him acts like they're witnessing miracles. Amethyst fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Nov 26, 2019 |
|
#
¿
Nov 26, 2019 00:32
|
|
|
Libluini posted:There's also the novel Blindsight and its sequel, where you have aliens capable of interfacing with our brains directly, causing stuff like editing themselves out of your brain's processes so they can stand right next to you without you ever noticing. Which I found both fascinating and creepy as poo poo. drat good book. "Starfish", by the same author, is also good, but avoid the sequels.
|
|
#
¿
Jan 5, 2020 09:21
|
|
|
Take the plunge! Okay! posted:It is pretty obvious that there was supposed to be another trilogy because Bakker clearly frames the story as a repeat of the previous apocalypse, in which the second act ended with the no-god freed and the forces of humanity in disarray. However, his publisher noped out of the series and Bakker tried to save face by starting to claim this was always supposed to be the ending. I didn’t like it as much as I took pleasure in people being riled up about it, which doesn’t cast a good light upon my character, but it is what it is. I still recommend this series in other threads out of spite. There isn’t “supposed” to be another trilogy. Why do people keep taking fantasy authors at their word? Writing an ending is hard work and lots of bad writers are incapable of doing it. They just write till they stop and claim they have more planned. In this case he isn’t even doing that. He’s saying “yep this is the ending. Sorry about that. I could write more if you think it’s bad. Sorry.” Also it’s pretty clear that Bakker has serious sadistic tendencies. He wanted to “teach the reader a lesson” in a really negative way. The more I think about it the less I like these books, and Bakker as a person. Amethyst fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Apr 27, 2020 |
|
#
¿
Apr 27, 2020 23:40
|
|
|
Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:He did speak of a third duology or trilogy, even before the great ordeal came out. Said the name would be a spoiler. That doesn't mean he'll ever write or publish it but it's not like it came from nowhere, and it definitely was mentioned before the last book came out. He also said there would be a second trilogy before it became a quadrilogy. Again: why would anyone take fantasy authors at their word? Of course they would say making their story into an endless serial is what is good and proper. Endings are hard and unprofitable.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 28, 2020 03:05
|
|
|
Memnaelar posted:Everything I read on his forums ran to the contrary. Where have you ever seen him say that or anything that's a functional equivalent? I read an interview where he revealed that he wrote the story as a dnd campaign as a teen, and it ended like it did in the books. He talked about how he could write more but he has no plan for what would happen.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 28, 2020 03:10
|
|
|
Memnaelar posted:...Yeah, that's pretty different from what you said earlier. But cool. I’m not here to be interrogated dude. Go read the interview
|
|
#
¿
Apr 28, 2020 03:25
|
|
|
And if it’s “naive” to expect the novels we read to end, that’s a terrible situation for readers and we shouldn’t buy into it.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 28, 2020 03:36
|
|
|
Just because Kellhus is an anti hero doesn’t mean he isn’t a stupid indulgent fantasy based on a warped view of humanity as a bunch of sheeple.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 29, 2020 09:54
|
|
|
Cardiac posted:How is this different from any other fantasy that plays at the pseduophilosophical angle? Lotr does not focus on sauron seducing people for chapters on end. I haven’t read sword of truth but it’s famously terrible.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 29, 2020 21:59
|
|
|
Cardiac posted:I am mostly curious why people are so upset about Bakker and the books since there are plenty of mediocre fantasy written by authors with questionable opinions out there that people don’t get upset about. You do see vitriol toward other authors. It’s normal. People have been hating Terry Goodkind at a steady rate for decades. Being let down by a multi thousand page series feels bad. No one hates Tolkien or Lewis though, their works are classics. Not sure why you raised them.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 30, 2020 13:40
|
|
|
ChubbyChecker posted:some people hate tolkien for his racism and classism, and some hate lewis for his racism, misogynism and jesus lions I doubt either of these are common sentiments. Both are a stretch.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 30, 2020 14:50
|
|
|
I’m talking hating Tolkien, not writing about Edwardian views on race in general. Acting like lotr is a racial manifesto because it was written in the early 29th c is very dumb, sorry.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 30, 2020 20:19
|
|
|
No they aren’t. Checkmate.
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2020 06:07
|
|
|
I know it’s a cool internet thing to do to butt into conversations asserting that everyone knows a popular thing is morally reprehensible and racist, but I’ll let you in on a secret: no one gives a poo poo about your inane bullshit. No one.
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2020 06:09
|
|
|
Oh wow you managed to interpret elves as perfect Aryan super men? Incredible. Can’t wait to hear all about how the criminals speak with regional accents and are basically an open throated endorsement of social Darwinism. Did you ever notice that super saiyans in dragon ball have blonde hair by the way?? Messed up. It’s really, super important you post this all over the place, get the message out.
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2020 06:11
|
|
|
The only non-dumbass forum link for the google search “Tolkien racist” is a professor of children’s literature saying that no, tolkein isn’t racist in any meaningful sense. Not a common sentiment. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2020 06:17
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 14:51 |
|
|
Stop bumping this to continue the idiotic argument. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
¿
May 7, 2020 13:20
|
|