There is a spectrum haunting C-SPAM. I, on the contrary,

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > There is a spectrum haunting C-SPAM. I, on the contrary,

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Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Top City Homo posted:

Behold my shame: a serious post.

I am always saddened when people understand socialism but are completely baffled by fascism.

Fascism is revolutionary "socialist nationalism". It is a degenerate offshoot of revolutionary socialism (yellow socialism), and at some point believed that it was the evolution of socialism. so its really important that you don't treat fascism like an alien ideology.

Robert Michels, for example, believed that socialism was tamed by the ruling elites and co opted into the liberal framework that required a vanguardist proletarian elite to lead a national syndicalist revolution, because the masses had immense energy but no will to shape social evolution.

A lot a of fascists were former socialists dissatisfied with the failure of international revolution and hated the diffusion of energy, futility and failure of trying to organize an international workers struggle. They wanted to find a solution to the "social problem" as it was defined within the nation state and did this by exchanging class solidarity for national solidarity while using Marxist language to inspire violent revolution.

Their analysis is basically Marxist but anti-communist within a wide spectrum of mild to virulent antisemitism:

1.) a weak bourgeoisie state beholden to conflicting international capitalist (Jewish) interest that needed to be overthrown for their failure and replaced by a strong vital heroism
2.) social chaos caused by the failure of capitalist economics that allowed international (Bolshevik/Jewish) forces to destabilize the country and lose its national identity as defined by its petty bourgeoisie leadership.

Here is what actually constituted fascism:

Anti-capitalism: Capitalism was associated with international finance (not private property) that preyed on a weak bourgeoisie state. The elites had hampered change for too long and a popular dictatorial national revitalization would be necessary to stop the looting of national wealth.

Heroism: A liberal democratic parliament represented a weak state beholden to conflicting interests. Elections rotated a failing ruling class while stifling real change through bureaucracy. The proletariat (petty bourgeoisie in reality) could only find respite in a true revolutionary overthrow of the liberal state. The masses needed a charismatic authority who would use the power of the state to intercede on their behalf. Heroism meant action instead of deliberation and the rule of law and unity of purpose instead of factionalism.

Elitism: This is where many people fall off and confuse it with corporatism. Fascism didn't really have an economic policy. It had a social goal and that goal was worker repression. Unionism, workers self management and cooperativism was destroyed by fascist policies and subordinated to industrial giants with the backing of the state.

Gaetano Mosca's Elite Theory described a natural scientific social order where a minority class of enlightened controlled a passive majority of workers with the wholesale backing of the state apparatus which would win "labor peace" through the guarantee of full employment and some social services. Fascists believed in a natural order of gifted men to rule the population as long as the social order had mechanisms to replace the elite, those with superior organizational skills, who failed to rule wisely. The revolution would not stop the natural cyclical nature of elites or the pyramid structure of society.

On a side note, Michal Kalecki made a very interesting analysis on the political implication of full employment and why full employment has only been seen in fascist states. http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2010/kalecki220510.html

International Struggle: The class struggle envisioned by Marxism was turned into the struggle of the nation state against international enemies. The state became the worker and the world the capitalist class against which the nation was to be eternally aggrieved. Society would be regimented against enemies who wanted to weaken it from within or without.

Socialism means worker control of the economy "democratic worker control of the means of production": Alexander Shlyapnikov/ Nestor Makhno/ CNT-FAI etc.

Now compare Leninism/Stalinism and Fascism:

Heroic anti-parliamentary: yes
Vanguardist/Anti-worker control: yes
International struggle vs Class struggle: Considering Stalin acted like a lapdog for the British by interceding on the side of the Republican government against the anarchists in order to protect British property I would say that he was working in state interest vs class interest.
National: "socialism in one country" i.e. yes

Bolshevism and Fascism are not exactly the same but neither was austrofascism or Felangism. I consider them to have enough similarities to call them sister movements. This is especially true if you consider worker control of the means of production through democratic governance the quintessential mark of socialism.

Bolsheviks took power through a putsch when they kicked out the Constituent Assembly.

The Bolsheviks were militaristic and expansionist. In every area where they took over worker control was destroyed.

for everyone who doesn't want to read this pedantic bullshit:

tl;dr: both Bolshevism and fascism were elitist, anti democratic worker control and authoritarian. They ended up being the same in structure if not ideology. Socialism is worker control and the Soviet Union did everything to destroy it just like the bourgeoisie fascists. im gaaaaaay as gently caress

Legit the best post in this forum thus far.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2016 01:43

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 06:00

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Whole lot of people don't get that Capitalism has become as much a religion as an abstract economic system and that it will not be brought down by anything so pedestrian as education

# ¿ Feb 29, 2016 09:09

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

leftism is dead in the water until a future generation stops fetishizing the trappings of a century-old failed authoritarian regime

# ¿ Mar 12, 2016 07:48

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Lenin was pretty cool and Bolshevik propaganda owned but that stuff is never going to shake off a century's worth of Western propaganda attacks

# ¿ Mar 12, 2016 08:06

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

listen pal, i didn't sign up to be Comrade Soup Cook, i signed up to be Comrade Lenin

# ¿ Mar 12, 2016 10:44

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

what's up with Marxists writing so many loving words, why can't they just upload youtube videos like more modern and sophisticated philosophers

# ¿ Mar 13, 2016 00:38

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Homework Explainer posted:

i take it you've yet to be introduced to maoist rebel news

holy poo poo lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xHki1PzBMY

# ¿ Mar 13, 2016 00:49

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Bob le Moche posted:

seriously though we need actual marxist youtuber youths if only so that this guy isn't the first thing that comes up when people type marxist words in the youtube searchbox

i don't think that would do much good, the fact is that the ideologies which spread effectively through simplistic youtube rants and short-form articles written at a grade-school level, such as right-libertarianism, do so because they are fundamentally manufactured ideologies which were created to reinforce the extant status quo, making them feel intuitively true to people who grew up within the same culture

Marxism, broadly, is an academic approach to political philosophy and ideology which is counter-intuitive to most people, necessitating a level of intellectual curiosity and investment that most people are unwilling or incapable of making.

trying to sell Marxism with the same shallow soundbites that right-libertarians have successfully used only results in recruiting idiots who think posting Lenin memes and pictures of the Soviet flag makes them Communists

# ¿ Mar 13, 2016 02:05

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Mofabio posted:

re:violence, I'm gonna be honest I'd be a little disappointed if I turned 50 and still didn't know what banker tastes like

nothing's stopping you from finding out tomorrow

# ¿ Mar 16, 2016 06:26

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

where can i get some good Marxist books that can be read on a Kindle by bourgeoise scum

# ¿ Mar 16, 2016 06:44

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

go for it

# ¿ Mar 16, 2016 06:51

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

you a good man, homework explainer, a good man

# ¿ Mar 16, 2016 08:21

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:

No, Stalin was not a great leader.

No, but still better than most of his idiot contemporaries.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2016 08:01

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

lol if you think you'd be allowed to vote if it actually changed anything meaningful

# ¿ Jul 15, 2016 14:38

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Condiv posted:

well a hillary supporter told me so last night, and they wouldn't lie to me!

Well, they'd certainly try their best not to

# ¿ Jul 29, 2016 15:11

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

R. Guyovich posted:

probably posted this earlier in the thread but as comrade reagan said, there ya go again

"On 25 July 1932, Stalin, in a letter to Kaganovich, mistakenly claimed that in the USSR as a whole 'the prospects of the harvest...are without any doubt good'"

hmm

# ¿ Dec 4, 2017 10:15

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Why is it that everyone always shits on the USSR for the bad poo poo it either didn't do or sort of did but not really, and not for the actual evil stuff they pulled like betraying allied leftist groups?

I mean I think I know the answer but still

# ¿ Dec 5, 2017 20:59

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Some day the left will accept the reality that most people are dumb as hell and don't give a poo poo about anything outside their bubbles unless they're being manipulated into it like the right wing does to great success.

If your opponent is willing to do anything to win, including embracing ideological enemies to use as tools, and you aren't, you're probably gonna lose.

# ¿ Dec 27, 2017 21:03

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Slavoj "I am ze Poop Man" Zizek

# ¿ Jan 10, 2018 21:05

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Karl Barks posted:

can we just like.. get some fuckin new philosophers. did we just figure all this poo poo out in 1860 or something? why is everythign we read 100 years old

all the new philosophers are on YouTube, check my man Stephen Molyneux!!

# ¿ Jan 10, 2018 21:06

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

BrutalistMcDonalds posted:

now this is really going too far

no poo poo, now they're trying to favorably compare Trump to a man who successfully took control of an emerging empire, won the bloodiest existential war of all time, and held power until he died?

Trump is only that competent in ben garrisons most feverish dreams

# ¿ Jan 15, 2018 20:31

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

he who smelt it dealt it

# ¿ Jan 16, 2018 01:39

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Comrade Big Dog

# ¿ Jan 16, 2018 15:29

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Smart like Donald Trump Jr is smart for being rich af

Also you can tell how seriously to take an ostensible Marxist by how much they talk about dead and buried Russian bullshit because the Bolsheviks were wrong, they hosed it up, and they have nothing to teach us at this point.

Leftism will only flourish if and when it stops being consumed by cosplaying Bolshevik cargo cultists

# ¿ Jan 16, 2018 18:44

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Well there is, lots, but not rereading Trotsky over and over again

# ¿ Jan 16, 2018 18:50

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Sometimes, Jacobin publishes something good

Sometimes, Jacobin publishes something bad

# ¿ Jan 16, 2018 19:12

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

tbh i attend for the snacks

# ¿ Jan 17, 2018 19:47

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

The cool part about Western media constantly crying wolf on North Korea is that North Korea is actually awful as hell but now people are starting to defend them and brush off real problems out of contrarianism

Sort of like how after a few exposed high profile false allegations in the current sexual misconduct media bloodbath, we'll just slowly loop back to "well that's what she says, but"

# ¿ Jan 21, 2018 00:40

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

GoluboiOgon posted:

tsarist secret police

wait but i thought the commies invented authoritarian secret police

next you're going to tell me they didn't make the gulags either!!

# ¿ Jan 22, 2018 01:24

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

broadly speaking, small business owners are the biggest pieces of poo poo I've ever engaged with

# ¿ Jan 22, 2018 21:09

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

That's like reading On the Origin of Species to learn about evolutionary theory

# ¿ Jan 26, 2018 19:44

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

fallen hamprince is a smart guy who gets off on shitposting and being abused

# ¿ Jan 27, 2018 21:43

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Goon Danton posted:

I wonder what would happen if a bunch of workers refused to abide by an NLRB decision. I'm sure a total lack of consequences and then winning by default after a year, right?

right!

also this will just continue getting worse because liberal capitalism has successfully domesticated people to the point that nobody will actually challenge authority by any effective means

# ¿ Jan 31, 2018 19:14

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

humanity will never actually achieve real socialism, let alone communism

when it comes, if it does, it will be under the guidance of our AI descendants

# ¿ Feb 3, 2018 03:07

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

im not talking about the singularity so much as the inevitability that we�re going to continue developing machine learning to the point that ceding control of complex large scale systems to AI will be made necessary

we�re only a handful of years away from the white collar skilled labour force being made obsolete by automation; the tech utopia idealism of the singularity crowd is wrong, but AI in some form is coming and it�s going to be the greatest disruption in modern history

for better or for worse

# ¿ Feb 3, 2018 04:35

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

GoluboiOgon posted:

otoh, something like 70% of russians think that the breakup of the ussr was a mistake.

times are worse, will always be worse, is russian way

# ¿ Feb 3, 2018 07:47

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

I really enjoyed Blindsight and the follow up Echopraxia, but they are both written from the perspective of a depressed scientist author.

the relevant fact is that while we don�t understand consciousness or sapience, we developed it and kicked the poo poo out of the entire planet with it, so there�s obvious survival value in it

oh and we don�t need to create sapient machines, the �dumb� machines we build will do it for us. there�s no (non-religious) reason to believe that the emergent complexity of our consciousness is unique to naturally evolved biological entities

Wheeee fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Feb 4, 2018

# ¿ Feb 4, 2018 03:16

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

also the whole �sadbrains� thing is a pretty gross dismissal of depression and of mental health in general

# ¿ Feb 4, 2018 03:53

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

Karl Barks posted:

good posts, keep it up

he's not wrong about the (lack of) efficacy of limp-dick american protests in which participants think the point is sharing their opinions or whatever stupid liberal poo poo

# ¿ Feb 6, 2018 21:52

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 06:00

Wheeee: Mar 11, 2001; When a tree grows, it is soft and pliable. But when it's dry and hard, it dies.

Hardness and strength are death's companions. Flexibility and softness are the embodiment of life.

That which has become hard shall not triumph.

if there's no threat of force then nobody will care

civil rights didnt happen because suddenly those in power felt bad and wanted to be nice

# ¿ Feb 6, 2018 21:59

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > There is a spectrum haunting C-SPAM. I, on the contrary,

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