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I haven't read the whole thread yet because I just started watching this. Like it so far. I'm just started the third episode and I hope to god this ends up with Lucifer having to school a guy in a rap battle.
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Feb 28, 2016 07:21
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| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 14:14 |
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One of my favorite things about this is that they didn't make Dan a 2-dimensional bad guy. In the pilot it seemed like "Detective Douche" was going to be pretty spot on, but actually he's a regular guy who seems like he's more or less doing his best. edit: Martout posted:Also we saw his wings in a dark nightclub, not in a room with metal walls and sterile lighting. Or am I forgetting an occasion when we saw his wings? Lucifer's wings looked loving awesome at the end of this episode. I'm not sure that I've ever paid attention to a mythology where Lucifer and Samael were the same being. I mean, I've seen Samael as Satan and Lucifer as Satan, but I don't think I've seen Samael as Lucifer. Probably because "Samael" is Hebrew, while "Lucifer" is obviously Latin. As far as I know, Amenadiel is made up for the show(and by this I mean comic)? I've never heard that name before, and google turns up nothing outside of the show/comic. I certainly don't have a problem with this, since I think that modern stories co-opting Judeo-Christian mythology are best when they put their own twist on things. See also He Never Died, one of my favorite films from last year. Snak fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 14:23
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Also, I'm too lazy to go back and check, but despite all evidence to contrary, doesn't Dan have a line indicating that he's not Trixie's bio-dad?
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Mar 1, 2016 18:15
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They added an extra flash effect this time, which us the first time his demon face didn't look goofy and lame as gently caress. I really like how he often grins like an idiot while he's hunting people down. That in itself comes off as pretty scary.
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Mar 2, 2016 03:30
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When I ran out of Lucifer to watch, I finally went and checked out iZombie. While it's got a slightly lighter tone, it's really great, and I would urge anyone who likes this genre and hasn't checked it out yet to give it a shot. I was really, really resistant to the idea due to the marketing and my preconceptions about it, but I'm 6 episodes in and loving it. I just thought I would bring it up here since we are still several days left before we can get our Luci fix again.
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Mar 2, 2016 21:25
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I generally like it best when God never shows up at all in these types of things, but w/e.
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Mar 3, 2016 01:25
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Better yet, it's just Alanis Morissette with Morgan Freeman's voice.
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Mar 3, 2016 01:51
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Azhais posted:I'm perfectly willing to accept that Amenadiel has jedi mind tricks similar to Lucifer This is what I was assuming. Presumably Lucifer's charms are what make her completely okay with the conflict of interest and ethics of sleeping with your patient in exchange for treatment. And if that's not the case, well then she already had no ethics and it's not surprising she doesn't give a poo poo about confidentiality. It would be neat if the show goes on long enough they actually do something with her character starting to realize that things aren't normal, not just with Lucifer, but with her sexual desire for him.
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Mar 3, 2016 22:04
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Etalommi posted:Plus she likes him. Real people do things they know they shouldn't and miss things that they should catch around/about people they have a crush on all the time. It doesn't exactly require a huge amount of suspension of disbelief. (edit: talking about Lucifer) Oh I know that, but it's not like they have a healthy relationship. He treats her like poo poo and she can't help but desire him. I feel like at some point she might start to question why she feels this way about him. I don't really have a problem with how things are now, I'm just saying if she's going to stay a character past the first season, I'd like to see them give some depth. They've done a decent job with Chloe and Dan. edit: Oh. Your comment makes more sense now.
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Mar 3, 2016 22:10
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Samael is often the angel of Death, so that's kind of interesting.
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Mar 4, 2016 02:20
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Darko posted:Lucifer isn't even Satan in the Bible, but instead was referring to some actual guy (and Satan isn't even really the Accuser in Job, either, outside of retcons). I like how he gets every somewhat related name on this show. Well I don't like to use Satan to refer to a specific being, since that's where a lot of the confusion comes from. Since Satan means "adversary" and a lot of these adversaries have been collected into a single being depending on your denomination or pop-culture mythology of choice, I prefer to use names more specific to individual stories/myths when available. So that said, in Hebrew scripture, haSatan, or "The Challenger" embodies the struggle of mankind. His "job" is to make faith in God difficult enough to be a meaningful choice. But it should also be noted that in Judaism, there is no concept of Angels having free will or the ability to appose God. (from here)
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Mar 7, 2016 22:41
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I could go either way on the real/fake wings. This Lucifer seems to like only by omission. It would serve him to make everyone think that he has destroyed them for the reasons he stated, while still having them as an ace I the hole. For the bigger question, does anyone doubt it was coma-cop's partner who shot him? If he found out that his partner was dirty and was going to be caught, he might have worried that no one would believe he wasn't dirty too. Killing his partner letting him go out as a hero to save his own career.
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Mar 8, 2016 19:18
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bio347 posted:OTOH, based on the source material this is absolutely the IP to do theological and existential debates with. Yes but this isn't based on any of that. The premise of this show is literally "Even Lucifer can bootstrap himself out of hell!"
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Mar 8, 2016 21:07
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Azhais posted:Amenadiel shot the cop and is now feeling guilty about it We don't actually know what Amenadiel's job was in heaven, maybe he's some kind of Angel of Justice.
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Mar 8, 2016 21:29
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This episode is the first time Amenadiel has been fleshed out and I really liked what they did. When we first see him, he's all righteous and superior. He schemes and plots because he believes that he knows what is best and that he is doing God's work. He hates Lucifer's insolence and irresponsibility. But in this episode, we see him more vulnerable. ”Fall as I did!" is a really powerful moment, because even though it doesn't change Amenadiel's opinion of Lucifer, it opens his eyes to self reflection and he sees how thinking that you are right about something can lead you down a blasphemous path. Like it never occurred to him that it was possible for him to defy God without doing it intentionally.
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Mar 9, 2016 03:34
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Aleph Null posted:I think he's more pissed that Luci is going against God's Will, but he feels like he's the one being punished for it. Amenadiel seems like, as an angel, he believes that he is a part of God's design, and he is angry and confused about Lucifer not only not thinking that God's design is important, but flaunting his role in it. Also considering his line to Luci "You wanted free will" it's possible that Amenadiel doesn't even believe in his own free will and thinks that his actions are basically a part of the divine plan. When he realizes that it is possible for his course to cause him to fall as Lucifer did, it might cause him to realize that it is not his role to enforce his interpretation of the divine plan, and instead he needs to be doing the sort of things he's supposed to. Now, my last two posts have a lot of speculation based on just a few things in the last episode, so I'm really curious to see where they're going with this. I'm just happy to see that, like Dan, they aren't going the two dimensional route with Amenadiel either.
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Mar 9, 2016 03:51
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If I was fox I'd want to keep it for that sweet "based on the work of Neil Gaiman" credit that's gonna blow up when American Gods happens. Also this episode had no murder of the week, which is promising.
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Mar 9, 2016 17:33
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The only Stars original I've watched is Outlander, but it's a very high production value show.
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Mar 9, 2016 17:52
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WarLocke posted:This last episode actually got me wondering if Amenadiel is actually supposed to be trying to get Lucifer back, or whether he's sort of going AWOL himself. I mean, if you start from the position that God is omnipotent and omniscient, then he had to both know that Lucifer would leave Hell and have allowed it to happen. Maybe God is okay with this, and chose Amenadiel as Lucifer's long-term replacement? Well it seems like they are doing the The Lord Works in Mysterious Ways even from the angelic perspective thing. I certainly don't get the impression that God has given any of them direct instruction in quite some time. I think it's very much that Amenadiel "doesn't like things that are different". He views the divine plan as something immutable and discretely laid out. He's trying to set right what Lucifer screwed up. But it's almost a given that this is an inaccurate view of the divine plan. Snak fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Mar 9, 2016 |
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Mar 9, 2016 19:10
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ShakeZula posted:It was obviously a joke, but Amenadiel did say "Why don't I go ask Father for some rain, to make it a moment" when Chloe stormed off at the auction, so the implication is that God is still around and reachable. I think it's probably just that Amenadiel hates his new job and God told him to either do it or get Lucifer back to do it instead. I mean, I don't really see that as conflicting with what I said. One-way requests to God is basically how beings of the Christian faith interact with him. God can still be around and also not ever explain his plans or actions. edit: Also there's that scene where Lucifer summons Amenadiel by placing his hands together in prayer (and presumably "praying"), which is kind of interesting.
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Mar 9, 2016 20:34
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counterfeitsaint posted:Agreed, and it didn't even serve any narrative purpose either, things could have progressed the exact same if the wings were revealed and Luci was like newp, those are fakes. It specifically established that angels can't necessarily distinguish divinity by any sort of ESP. It sets up the possibility that Luci could have burnt the fake wings (although I don't think that he did) as well as reminds us that Chloe could have some divine aspect to her that Lucifer and Amenadiel can't perceive despite being angels themselves. Yeah it didn't serve a purpose in the immediate narrative of that episode, but I think it's an important bit of world-building clarification. edit: It also fits with everything else: Maz and Amenadiel can't tell by looking at Lucifer that he's becoming mortal, Lucifer can't even sense it about himself. It potentially sets up that there could be other angelic or demonic characters posing as humans that aren't recognized as such. Lucifer can't even tell when his powers are working except by their results: He is tricked every time Chloe pretends to be falling for his charms just to mess with him. Snak fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Mar 10, 2016 |
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Mar 10, 2016 01:58
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I get the impression that Amenadiel is super-low in the hierarchy of angels, considering he's completely made up for the source material/show. There's an bunch of named angels in various scripture and none of them have shown up yet. Lucifer's return to hell could easily have been requested by Gabriel, Michael, Uriel (who was actually mentioned), Raphael etc.
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Mar 10, 2016 03:41
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I think that it was set up to be a moment that reminds us that Amenadiel and Lucifer are not that different. They are basically coworkers who had a professional falling out. Amenadiel doesn't question God's plan, so Lucifer being condemned to hell is something he takes for granted as "just", but he's been doing a big part of Luci's job since Luci left, so he knows that it sucks balls. Amenadiel views himself as different from Lucifer, which is why he's been scheming with Maz to put Lucifer back in his place, but in this episode eh starts to see that he isn't really that different. Them genuinely joking around is part of that, I think. Along with him realizing that his motives in trying to control Lucifer and get him back to hell aren't purely loyalty to the divine plan, but also selfish in the same way the Lucifer is selfish.
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Mar 12, 2016 23:57
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Rappaport posted:I really, really wanted them to flap majestically in this scene, even if it would screw with the rest of the narrative vis a vis his powers, because drat I don't think there are any hard and fast rules about his powers poo poo. Where's the fun in angelic divine powers being quantifiable all the time?
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Mar 13, 2016 03:12
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Tiggum posted:I don't think that was powers, she just thought he was charming. Well they wouldn't have a profound effect on angels, so that's why they can't tell? If both fake angel wings and real angels wings inspire no awe in angels, then it makes sense they would't notice right away. Also, if you assume the wings that we saw at the end of the episode they were first introduced were the real ones, then the copy did look identical to the real wings. The guy who mounted the real wings changed their shape which presumably made them look a bit different. Yes I know that they actually just made a better prop, but I'm not going to hold it against a show for improving.
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Mar 13, 2016 04:48
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ShakeZula posted:Maybe, just seemed like the same way they present people like the therapist reacting to Lucifer's charm. And Chloe's not exactly a huge flirt, liable to instantly gush over a handsome stranger. Yes, but she would totally do it just to mess with Lucifer.
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Mar 13, 2016 06:21
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WarLocke posted:So... The doctor finaly managed to resist Lucifer's charms. I wonder if that's a matter of 'exposure' (building up a 'resistance'?) or if he really is losing his powers gradually? Well I don't think that Lucifer's charms are really like mind control or anything, I think that his angelic nature simply registers as "incredibly desirable" to humans if they are of a sexual orientation that likes men. As such, people attracted to Lucifer still posses complete free will in the matter, it's just that they are going to think he's "worth it" to risk everything to be with him because of how desirable he seems to them. But there's no reason they couldn't make a conscious choice to not be with him even though they still find him attractive. I think the main reason that Linda wants to break off her sexual relationship with Lucifer is because she thinks it's bad for him. Linda is recognizing his infatuation with Chloe, and he is beginning to, and because she cares about him, she is choosing not to be selfish.
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Mar 16, 2016 18:17
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Pan Dulce posted:I might be really obtuse, but is the show playing that angle? Lucifer pointed out his situation wasn't anything like the jealous guy's emotions and when he asked Chloe, she said she agreed. Well, there are a lot of differences between that guy and Lucifer. Which is why they say they are "nothing alike" but it is incredibly obvious that Lucifer is jealous of Dan. This episode does a lot of things to drive that home. "Why bother coveting something when you can just take it?" "What does she see in him?" and his look at the end when Chloe hugs Dan. I also agree that is not losing his powers. edit: ^yeah, I thought about this early. I actually started writing a post about how I was disappointed they didn't make Lucifer bisexual. He seems like he should be a creature of pure carnal energy and not bound by specific orientations. But it would also be tricky to do without having kind of a negative connotation "of course the devil is gay" type thing. It could easily end up in really touchy territory and I can't really blame the writers for avoiding it. But no seriously Lucifer and Amenadiel should angry make-out. Snak fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 19:02
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Yeah but they kind of shut it down with his reaction to the gay security guy in the episode with the pickup artist.
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Mar 16, 2016 19:10
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I don't think ignoring it is really worse. It might be from a purely ethical standpoint, but it's not from a business/want to keep making the show standpoint. Look at the loving disaster that is going on with the 100 right now.
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Mar 16, 2016 19:18
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WarLocke posted:That show is fine, it's the batshit tumblr brigade acting out. Of course, but if I was a writer, and I didn't want the batship tumblr brigade to plaster my show all over facebook for being "part of the problem", I would just avoid the issue by not putting it in my show for mainstream audiences. Again, I'm not saying it's ethically right to avoid talking about minority issues, but it's certainly socially and financially safe to do so.
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Mar 16, 2016 19:25
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WarLocke posted:Avoiding the issue (if you wanted to address it to begin with) us, in a sense, caving to the expected response right up-front. The Iron Rose posted:stop reading my erotic fanfiction
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Mar 16, 2016 19:46
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Mr.Pibbleton posted:I learned about the Houdini maneuver from a military briefing, turns out it's considered a form of rape. Yeah, it's pretty loving sad that people need that explained to them. But given that they do, it's good that people explain it.
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Mar 16, 2016 20:20
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That's actually not what I thought it was...
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Mar 16, 2016 20:34
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evilmiera posted:I really want them to lean heavier on the actual supernatural stuff, the regular police drama just bores me when Lucifer isn't around to make fun of it. Yeah the procedural part is pretty loving bad. Like "I could write this part of the show in my sleep" bad. Obvious suspect -> alibi -> second suspect is suspicious -> first suspect's alibi falls apart -> it was the first suspect. CASE SOLVE PAT ON THE BACK.  However, the episode before this last one didn't even have a case of the week and was just revising the previous suspicious cop shooting. So there's a little bit of home that they could transition into doing more episodes like that.
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Mar 17, 2016 15:12
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...when you say "that", are you referring to the only part of my post that you didn't quote? or are you saying that a completely predictable formula every episode is good because it lets them focus on the rest of the show?
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Mar 17, 2016 15:37
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Tiggum posted:I like procedurals. I think the bigger story gets in the way of the bits I like. I want the formulaic case of the week, not the rest of it. I hope they don't focus on the big mystery and just keep that as a background thing. Focusing on the bigger stories is what ruins these shows. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying that so far, the procedural cases are super boring because there's no effort put into making them engaging. They are literally a cut and past formula that is the same every. single. episode. Down to the quips when they arrest people.
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Mar 17, 2016 16:49
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But character bits like that will exist completely independent of the case of the week. There's always gonna be a gimmick for one of the suspects. Sometimes they will be suicidal, sometimes they will be a crazy shipper, sometimes they will hold the world high score in 3d Tetris. But the gimmick suspect will never be the guilty one.
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Mar 17, 2016 17:03
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There isn't anything wrong with a 100% procedural show, but you can't have ever episode be the same really generic formula. You can't have Law&Order where every case unfolds the same way.
Snak fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Mar 17, 2016 |
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Mar 17, 2016 18:36
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| # ¿ Apr 27, 2024 14:14 |
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Tiggum posted:Yep, that's how procedurals work. It's really not. Have you ever watched M*A*S*H?
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Mar 18, 2016 11:28
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