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Booty Pageant
Apr 20, 2012


Moartoast posted:

Boy, that's worrying. One of my favorite parts of the old games was how natural the scripting worked. Each little "world" rarely revolved around the player, which is something that most games just don't do, and it really lent this sense of actually infiltrating a living place. Having NPCs stand around waiting to take their marks and spout exposition when the player is nearby (along with flashing USE THIS FOR SOME SWEET ASSASSINATION ACTION setpieces) is basically antithetical to the whole design of classic Hitman. There were hints of these things in BM, but they weren't a huge deal at the time and the levels were still largely naturalistic and freeform enough to facilitate The Good poo poo.

I kinda figured IOI had come to their senses when one of the previews for this new one explicitly said "we have this many NPCs active and doing their own thing all across the map at a time", but y'know, marketing is just marketing I guess.

maybe start a petition and kickstarter to get the original devs to stop working on heros and generals and go back to making hitman

also jesper kyd

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Moartoast
Jan 16, 2011

Another unfunny, threadshitting knob-end.

The two big assassination-themed series' that had Jesper Goddamn Kyd loving dropped him despite getting even bigger budgets than when they had him, and have never picked him back up even when literally anyone that knows him wants him back.

If that doesn't reflect how hosed up this industry is, I don't know what does.

Mierenneuker
Apr 28, 2010



Blood Money still has my favorite video game soundtrack of all time. I still remember when I took out the opera singer in his dressing room and "Apocalypse" started playing for the first time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGlhoUE86gA

Mierenneuker fucked around with this message at Feb 12, 2016 around 10:59

Moartoast
Jan 16, 2011

Another unfunny, threadshitting knob-end.

The Contracts theme evokes its respective game so drat well, and holds a special place in my heart, since I was introduced to the series through that game and that awesome fuckin' theme.

Goddamn do I love Contracts in all its surreal, atmospheric, nonsensical, janky glory. I even like the parts I'm pretty sure IO doesn't want me to like. Meat King's Party is hilarious in all the ways I think it was meant to be disturbing, it's like if David Lynch got tasked to direct a badly-written CSI episode on vague early 2000's kink fear.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


I read somewhere that the RIDICULOUS and gross oversexualization of both sexes was due to an artistic choice to show how out of touch and disgusted 47 was with people. They look gross because to him they are gross, etc. I'm pretty sure this was just some internet theorycrafting in order to explain away why the series always has HUUUUUGE... Tracts of land... Either way, it was good enough to be believable if you so chose to.


I love the way the story is literally almost not-there in Blood Money until the last few missions. The fact that, unless you actively listen and seek it out and follow it you can get royally hosed in You Better Watch Out... is great. That load screen with the '?' over the silhouette and then the whole sequence involving that was the perfect storytelling for this series.

StabMasterArson
May 31, 2011



anyone know if its possible to preorder on PS4, download the beta then cancel the preorder?

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


In theory yes but I saw someone posting that they attempted that with The Division and Sony's support was ignoring their explicit ToS wording and refused to refund them, just give them store credit or some poo poo.

Sleeveless
Dec 25, 2014

I'm not going to lie to you, there's nothing good about this at all.

Being weird about women and sex can kind of be explained away but those crazy Danes being grossly out of touch with American culture can be way more , like hanging out at the beginning of Blood Money's tutorial level and having the black gangbangers talking like something out of an A. Wyatt Mann comic or the flavor text for the steamboat/redneck wedding levels being nothing but incest and retard jokes.

Moartoast posted:

The two big assassination-themed series' that had Jesper Goddamn Kyd loving dropped him despite getting even bigger budgets than when they had him, and have never picked him back up even when literally anyone that knows him wants him back.

If that doesn't reflect how hosed up this industry is, I don't know what does.

When Codename 47 came out Jesper Kyd was some no-name and now he's a hugely successful and in-demand composer. Maybe instead of being some vast conspiracy by the evil Game Industry to take away your epic gaming music feels they just can't afford him now or he'd rather do new stuff instead of the fifth or sixth game in a series he's been working on for over a decade

Generic Monk
Oct 31, 2011



Sleeveless posted:

Being weird about women and sex can kind of be explained away but those crazy Danes being grossly out of touch with American culture can be way more , like hanging out at the beginning of Blood Money's tutorial level and having the black gangbangers talking like something out of an A. Wyatt Mann comic or the flavor text for the steamboat/redneck wedding levels being nothing but incest and retard jokes.

how is bizarre misogynistic ephemera able to be explained away yet it's somehow a surprise that people from denmark don't have an implicit knowledge of american culture? they have women in denmark right? right??? can someone check on that?

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


e: ^^^ They do not. It's unfortunate.


I'd bet more on money than boredom. While he's doing to same series and they all sound like Jesper Kyd there's almost no recurring themes between each soundtrack. I don't imagine it'd be like a John Williams, "How can I make a thirteenth variation on this one track?"

BillBear
Mar 13, 2013

Ask me about running my country straight into the ground every time I play EU4 multiplayer.

blackguy32 posted:


Traditions of the trade was kind of crappy in Contracts. But man that is one dark game. It and Hitman 2 are the only games I can think of where you actually kill non-bad people.

I always felt sorry for the tutorial target in BM. It seems like he's completely guilt ridden about what happened and it looked like the whole thing ruined his life too. Also the guy in A New Life was completely innocent, IIRC, you even kill his wife as a bonus objective. You basically orphan a teenage girl at her birthday party because her daddy was a snitch. 47 also kills that nice post man in a cut scene later in the same game.

BillBear fucked around with this message at Feb 12, 2016 around 16:02

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


BillBear posted:

I always felt sorry for the tutorial target in BM. It seems like he's completely guilt ridden about what happened and it looked like the whole thing ruined his life too. Also the guy in A New Life was completely innocent, IIRC, you even kill his wife as a bonus objective. You basically orphan a teenage girl at her birthday party because her daddy was a snitch. 47 also kills that nice post man in a cut scene later.

At one point someone pointed out to me he did some lovely things with the lawsuit that made me less sympathetic but I can't remember what.

A New Life was innocent? Just a rat? Not a reason not to kill him, the game actually REWARDS killing every rat on an earlier level.

Moartoast
Jan 16, 2011

Another unfunny, threadshitting knob-end.

Sleeveless posted:

When Codename 47 came out Jesper Kyd was some no-name and now he's a hugely successful and in-demand composer. Maybe instead of being some vast conspiracy by the evil Game Industry to take away your epic gaming music feels they just can't afford him now or he'd rather do new stuff instead of the fifth or sixth game in a series he's been working on for over a decade

I may have been being a touch facetious and understand there's a thousand moving parts in game dev and am not, in fact, concerned with ethics in game composition

BillBear
Mar 13, 2013

Ask me about running my country straight into the ground every time I play EU4 multiplayer.

Dark_Swordmaster posted:

At one point someone pointed out to me he did some lovely things with the lawsuit that made me less sympathetic but I can't remember what.

A New Life was innocent? Just a rat? Not a reason not to kill him, the game actually REWARDS killing every rat on an earlier level.

He may have been in the mafia but from what I can remember the guy was trying to turn his life around and he started that by ratting out the mafia. Okay, not "completely" innocent but it's certainly someone who doesn't deserve to get killed and is pretty much a saint compared to the scum in the rest of the game minus the first guy.

I hope this new game adds more grey, BM's ending made it clear 47 is irredeemable scum but they seem scared at times to let him kill some not-so bad people.

Talking about the ending, the reporter is certainly 100% innocent, always felt sorry for him at the end.

Accordion Man
Nov 7, 2012


BillBear posted:

I always felt sorry for the tutorial target in BM. It seems like he's completely guilt ridden about what happened and it looked like the whole thing ruined his life too. Also the guy in A New Life was completely innocent, IIRC, you even kill his wife as a bonus objective. You basically orphan a teenage girl at her birthday party because her daddy was a snitch. 47 also kills that nice post man in a cut scene later in the same game.
You don't have to kill her, you can just knock her out. All you need is the microfilm necklace.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


The introduction of the rating system has singlehandedly saved countless digital lives. She would never live if it weren't such a point of pride to get SA.

Hey to people playing these for the first time: Forget about Silent Assassin your first time through. It's always fun to work towards and if you can get it on your first attempt good for you. But just play each hit however and enjoy. SA is usually meant for after you know the timing and locations of a level.

But really, is anyone reading this thread playing these fresh?

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

Accordion Man posted:

You don't have to kill her, you can just knock her out. All you need is the microfilm necklace.

pretty much. i only killed him and the pedo guard.

anyone play the beta yet?

DLC Inc
Jun 1, 2011

1-(900) 720-2666


beta is taking a few mins more in the US to drop

Moartoast
Jan 16, 2011

Another unfunny, threadshitting knob-end.

So uh, the "beta" is apparently up for some folks on PS4, anyone in this thread given it a go yet? If the blurbs are to be believed, there isn't much to it, but I'm hoping it gives some actual sense of the level/game design. I'm a PC jerk so I have to wait a week

Their attempts to diffuse the "pre-order demo" jokes are pretty funny, though. Yes, you need to stress test the servers for this thing that will ultimately be playable offline anyways, and will only use online functions for stat tracking and uploading contracts (which I don't think are even in the beta). Uh huh.

Then again, Squeenix's last published game had live leaderboards that could drop a dozen or two frames when activated, and constantly had network issues interrupting everybody's SP games, so maybe it's not totally unwarranted .

e;fb

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

Moartoast posted:

So uh, the "beta" is apparently up for some folks on PS4, anyone in this thread given it a go yet? If the blurbs are to be believed, there isn't much to it, but I'm hoping it gives some actual sense of the level/game design. I'm a PC jerk so I have to wait a week

Their attempts to diffuse the "pre-order demo" jokes are pretty funny, though. Yes, you need to stress test the servers for this thing that will ultimately be playable offline anyways, and will only use online functions for stat tracking and uploading contracts (which I don't think are even in the beta). Uh huh.

Then again, Squeenix's last published game had live leaderboards that could drop a dozen or two frames when activated, and constantly had network issues interrupting everybody's SP games, so maybe it's not totally unwarranted .

e;fb

i played it offline. its alright/good.

Moartoast
Jan 16, 2011

Another unfunny, threadshitting knob-end.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

i played it offline. its alright/good.

Well, good to hear you can play offline, at least. The pre-beta stuff said it'd be always online which had me a bit worried.

I'd watch a stream since there's no NDA or w/e but watching random Twitch streamers is a hell of a dice roll.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

Moartoast posted:

Well, good to hear you can play offline, at least. The pre-beta stuff said it'd be always online which had me a bit worried.

I'd watch a stream since there's no NDA or w/e but watching random Twitch streamers is a hell of a dice roll.

its solid, its very blood money 2.0 you can just go in guns blazing(if you want to, i always liked to once and while aka alot), but you have to be actually smart about it. the stealth is mix of blood money and absolution. basicaly it has alot a hud stuff to help newbies but all of it can be turned off in the settings. plus the "insta stealth button is gone. the intuition button is now basically a optional "arkham vision" that shows where your target is and who can see through your current disguise. a problem i have, which maybe partly my fault and maybe because how the levels are done. enimes are weirdly bullet spongy. like if you dont get a head shot/center mass, enemies can maybe get up and run for help. also guards dont spawn in like with absolution. its more like blood money, but alot less omnipresent. if you start shooting all guards in the immediate area will converge. if anyone gets a way, they will alert any guard the meet. its interesting.

also for those worried about the whole gender stuff. women look like normal women. no scatly clad super titted bimbos in the beta.

Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at Feb 12, 2016 around 17:49

BillBear
Mar 13, 2013

Ask me about running my country straight into the ground every time I play EU4 multiplayer.

I have zero problem with the newb friendly hud stuff since the last traditional Hitman came out 10 years ago this year, plus you can always turn it off.

Moartoast
Jan 16, 2011

Another unfunny, threadshitting knob-end.

BillBear posted:

I have zero problem with the newb friendly hud stuff since the last traditional Hitman came out 10 years ago this year, plus you can always turn it off.

Yeah, that whole thing sounds pretty good and presenting things in a more newcomer-friendly way while retaining the design that holds everything together is nothing but a good change.

Much as I love 'em, those old games were pretty impenetrable before you really sat down to learn all the weird, cool and barely-explained mechanics.

Goddammit I promised myself I wouldn't get too hype because the episodic thing is super dubious (especially if you've read up on the insidious poo poo that's been goin' down at Square) and IOI's been mediocre-at-best since K&L, but "Blood Money 2.0 with Absolutions QoL improvements and less creeper poo poo" is like, the exact thing I wanted out of the next Hitman game.

why is this ps4 timed exclusive ffs.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


Yeah, the alpha showcased really well the spread of information is great in the new one. No longer is getting busted once the end of a disguise. You can actually run down someone who knows you OR KILL ALL THE GUARDS LOOKING FOR YOU and you're clear again. It's a nice mechanic and it was fun watching the map markers change color as they ran to tell each other.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

Dark_Swordmaster posted:

Yeah, the alpha showcased really well the spread of information is great in the new one. No longer is getting busted once the end of a disguise. You can actually run down someone who knows you OR KILL ALL THE GUARDS LOOKING FOR YOU and you're clear again. It's a nice mechanic and it was fun watching the map markers change color as they ran to tell each other.

this. the problem is its isnt shown well on the first part of the beta, but the second part it is.

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead.


BillBear posted:

He may have been in the mafia but from what I can remember the guy was trying to turn his life around and he started that by ratting out the mafia. Okay, not "completely" innocent but it's certainly someone who doesn't deserve to get killed and is pretty much a saint compared to the scum in the rest of the game minus the first guy.

I hope this new game adds more grey, BM's ending made it clear 47 is irredeemable scum but they seem scared at times to let him kill some not-so bad people.

Talking about the ending, the reporter is certainly 100% innocent, always felt sorry for him at the end.
47 is a contract killer. He is a bad guy from the start.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

Scalding Coffee posted:

47 is a contract killer. He is a bad guy from the start.

pretty much, though he is probably more of a very dark anti hero, 80% of the targets are lovely people in one way or another.


weird semi hitman related question. is anyone going to pick up alekhines gun. its basicaly death of spies 3. its party in world war 2 but mostly in the cold war. apperetly it plays alot like absolution.(controls, gunplay) but very blood money stealth. you play as smersh agent and your trying to figure out the JFK assassination or something like that.
http://www.alekhines-gun.com/

Sleeveless
Dec 25, 2014

I'm not going to lie to you, there's nothing good about this at all.

One thing I liked about the earlier games that fell to the wayside was that they had some missions where you didn't know who your target was and had to figure it out creatively. In Silent Assassin there was one mission where you had to snipe somebody at a meeting and when you were in position you started getting fed info like "smokes...left-handed" and had to figure out who the target was, and in another mission the person you were killing was a notorious recluse so all you had to go off of was footage of them at a birthday party when they were a kid.

Generic Monk posted:

how is bizarre misogynistic ephemera able to be explained away yet it's somehow a surprise that people from denmark don't have an implicit knowledge of american culture? they have women in denmark right? right??? can someone check on that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fhhc2DOQYaM

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This user's endless pedantry is kept grey.

Key words: nutrition, philosophy, regulatory science, law, shallow realpolitik, fake cheese, game design fanfiction.

For those needing evidence of how terribad Absolution's mechanics are, I'd like to introduce prenatual's Absolution Perfect Assassin Playthrough. prenatual, who has sadly retired from making new videos, is the stealth king, but you can see how frustrated he gets with the systems in Absolution.

Moartoast posted:

The two big assassination-themed series' that had Jesper Goddamn Kyd loving dropped him despite getting even bigger budgets than when they had him, and have never picked him back up even when literally anyone that knows him wants him back.

If that doesn't reflect how hosed up this industry is, I don't know what does.

It might also indicate that Kyd is difficult to work with or overcharges for his services. I like his music, but when you see that pattern...

Dark_Swordmaster posted:

I love the way the story is literally almost not-there in Blood Money until the last few missions. The fact that, unless you actively listen and seek it out and follow it you can get royally hosed in You Better Watch Out... is great. That load screen with the '?' over the silhouette and then the whole sequence involving that was the perfect storytelling for this series.

The planned story went through an absolute blender in Blood Money because they ran out of time/money during development. It unfortunately appears that most of the "show don't tell" moments in that game were because they ran out of time to budget long-winded cutscenes. Just about every mission has large sections that were hastily rearranged to make them functional. For example...

There was originally going to be only one Parchezzi clone in the game.
The final level was originally going to be stealthable if you waited for the platform to lower- an underground morgue area was scrapped from the map.

There are similar problems with SA- I've theorized that the different locations in that game were worked on by different teams, because there's design whiplash whenever you go between "chapters" in that game.

racism edit: for those who haven't paid more attention to the dialogue (you lucky bastards), the "weapons dealer" in one of the Absolution maps is meant to be a "New York Jew" stereotype, tossing around terms in yiddish and making references to attending an award ceremony in...manhattan, iirc.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at Feb 12, 2016 around 20:48

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.


jesus lol. thats horrendus.

still this is one of my favorite lines of any video game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJiAVYELdyI

Moartoast
Jan 16, 2011

Another unfunny, threadshitting knob-end.

Discendo Vox posted:

It might also indicate that Kyd is difficult to work with or overcharges for his services. I like his music, but when you see that pattern...

Like I said, I'm being facetious. I could definitely see a dude like Kyd being hard to work with/pay for with the kind of stuff he's done.

Also, on the topic of SA, were the console versions ever significantly gimped? I've still got a Gamecube copy of SA knocking around that I've barely played, and I don't know how active the maps are in SA compared to Contracts or BM, but a GC pulling off the kind of poo poo Hitman's known for seems a bit dubious.

I could just download the PC version and have decent resolution and controls, but where's the novelty in that???

Moartoast
Jan 16, 2011

Another unfunny, threadshitting knob-end.

Watching the Giant Bomb video on the beta, it looks like the assassination target evacuated his bladder when they shot him in the face

blackguy32
Oct 1, 2005

Get back. Move, get back! Don't you touch my stereo! THESE ARE MY RECORDS!!!

BillBear posted:

I always felt sorry for the tutorial target in BM. It seems like he's completely guilt ridden about what happened and it looked like the whole thing ruined his life too. Also the guy in A New Life was completely innocent, IIRC, you even kill his wife as a bonus objective. You basically orphan a teenage girl at her birthday party because her daddy was a snitch. 47 also kills that nice post man in a cut scene later in the same game.

Vinnie Sinistra was a crime lord that turned informant and you don't have to kill his wife. She really isn't a mission target.

Moartoast posted:

Like I said, I'm being facetious. I could definitely see a dude like Kyd being hard to work with/pay for with the kind of stuff he's done.

Also, on the topic of SA, were the console versions ever significantly gimped? I've still got a Gamecube copy of SA knocking around that I've barely played, and I don't know how active the maps are in SA compared to Contracts or BM, but a GC pulling off the kind of poo poo Hitman's known for seems a bit dubious.

I could just download the PC version and have decent resolution and controls, but where's the novelty in that???

No not at all. You just have to deal with the load times.

blackguy32 fucked around with this message at Feb 12, 2016 around 22:40

DLC Inc
Jun 1, 2011

1-(900) 720-2666


So I played the demo/beta/whatever, it's just two tiny missions but it seemed okay. The framerate is kind of wonky; it's anywhere from 60 to 30 and wasn't locked towards anything. Animations aren't as polished but it was impressive how many people they crammed into one place without even more framerate drops.

It feels like a Hitman game, Blood Money/Contracts style. disguises work a bit better now that only certain "experts" will have some moments of suspicion towards you. Not sure how I feel about it until I see more of the larger levels and how they manage to work on the framerate stuff. It looks like they're on the right track, though---even putting in some faux methods to gently caress with you. I had used poison on one guy but he successfully purged himself afterwards; I thought it was the surefire method to take him out.

WindyMan
Mar 21, 2002

Respect the power of the wind

MinibarMatchman posted:

I had used poison on one guy but he successfully purged himself afterwards; I thought it was the surefire method to take him out.

You sure if was poison? It may have just been a sedative. If you put someone to sleep/pacify them, they will eventually wake up. Which is something I'm uber-excited for.

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


There are three syringes: Poison, emetic (what you gave him), and knockoutjuice.

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



Surprised this thread isn't more active with the beta out.

Beta has me super hyped for Paris. It really does feel like Blood Money 2, even with the tiny tutorial levels. There's at least half a dozen ways of killing the main target on the boat level- you can sneak up and shoot him, you can knock out and impersonate the dude he's meeting, you can poison him, you can drop a life boat on his head, and of course you can slip him some emetic and drown him in the vomit filled toilet while he's puking his guts out.

And the hangar level seems like it has even more opportunities. I can't wait for the first proper level.

Moartoast
Jan 16, 2011

Another unfunny, threadshitting knob-end.

I'm defos hoping they made the mechanics/AI/level design well enough to facilitate solutions beyond the paths they explicitly planned out. The bit of beta stuff I've seen definitely suggests that that's the case, hopefully it holds up to scrutiny in larger levels.

Also really hope you can turn off the feats & OPPORTUNITY REVEALING/REVEALED prompts, they're neat in a way but i'd prefer to more naturally find this stuff out on my own

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marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



Moartoast posted:

Also really hope you can turn off the feats & OPPORTUNITY REVEALING/REVEALED prompts, they're neat in a way but i'd prefer to more naturally find this stuff out on my own

You can.

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