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Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

TacticalUrbanHomo posted:

I already did. Even after Absolution, the Hitman IP is worth enough to take a risk on. Plus I got 25% off from GMG.

Is that deal still going?

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TacticalUrbanHomo
Aug 17, 2011

by Lowtax


Look Sir Droids posted:

Is that deal still going?

Uh idk, the email linked to a unique url that generated the voucher. Plus they're sold out last I saw.

Moartoast
Jan 16, 2011

Another unfunny, threadshitting knob-end.

My only real concern with the release model for Hitman is the actual support for it. I'm a weirdo who genuinely enjoyed the new SW Battlefront enough to get its season pass (at a deep-rear end discount, obv) but holy good gravy have they done almost nothing to motivate continued interest in that game, even if the DLC packs poo poo diamonds, they'll land with a wet thud, because there's next to no momentum to keep the interest flowing.

The challenges and contracts and all that in Hitman seem designed to keep things moving, but if it takes more than like, a month (and a half, at most) for each new map(pack?) to come out, interest is going to probably die down fairly quickly.

TacticalUrbanHomo
Aug 17, 2011

by Lowtax


Moartoast posted:

My only real concern with the release model for Hitman is the actual support for it. I'm a weirdo who genuinely enjoyed the new SW Battlefront enough to get its season pass (at a deep-rear end discount, obv) but holy good gravy have they done almost nothing to motivate continued interest in that game, even if the DLC packs poo poo diamonds, they'll land with a wet thud, because there's next to no momentum to keep the interest flowing.

The challenges and contracts and all that in Hitman seem designed to keep things moving, but if it takes more than like, a month (and a half, at most) for each new map(pack?) to come out, interest is going to probably die down fairly quickly.

well as I just said GMG has sold out their stock of "full experience" keys. I can't check right now but I'd wager it's also a top seller on Steam.

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

My impression of the Hitman player base is its relatively small for a AAA game but also pretty dedicated. This is a game with lots of replay value built in, trying to do every mission in every available way. Add in the contracts mode and special targets, I am not too worried about staying power.

Moartoast
Jan 16, 2011

Another unfunny, threadshitting knob-end.

TacticalUrbanHomo posted:

well as I just said GMG has sold out their stock of "full experience" keys. I can't check right now but I'd wager it's also a top seller on Steam.

I mean, yeah, but that's basically a pre-order of most of the game on a discount. Loads of people buy season passes and early access games regularly and this is the same principle as both of those. If you're going to do the gradual release thing like this, you gotta keep momentum before interest dies down too much for new content to seem worthwhile. Though, granted, if people buy in enough at first, the company doesn't need to give a poo poo long-term and it's only the consumer losing out, which is the worrying part.

Though this:

Look Sir Droids posted:

My impression of the Hitman player base is its relatively small for a AAA game but also pretty dedicated. This is a game with lots of replay value built in, trying to do every mission in every available way. Add in the contracts mode and special targets, I am not too worried about staying power.

Is pretty true, and like i said those systems seem to be in place specifically to build and sustain interest between releases, so i am a bit more confident in this than I am a traditional season pass.

Radical 90s Wizard
Aug 5, 2008

~SS-18 burning bright,
Bathe me in your cleansing light~


Someone please tell me they got rid of the bizarro checkpoint system from Absolution...

Mierenneuker
Apr 28, 2010



The video a goon posted earlier showed a straightforward save-load system, as in you return to the exact state you were in as you load a game. Just like it was in Silent Assassin, Contracts and Blood Money.

TacticalUrbanHomo
Aug 17, 2011

by Lowtax


Mierenneuker posted:

The video a goon posted earlier showed a straightforward save-load system, as in you return to the exact state you were in as you load a game. Just like it was in Silent Assassin, Contracts and Blood Money.

That's exactly what it's like in the beta. Saving your game is even a step in the guided tutorial mission, as if they wanted to draw attention to the fact that they got rid of the other studio's pants-on-head stupid "feature".

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


Other studio? Does IOI has multiple studios?

Look Sir Droids
Jan 27, 2015

The tracks go off in this direction.

TacticalUrbanHomo posted:

That's exactly what it's like in the beta. Saving your game is even a step in the guided tutorial mission, as if they wanted to draw attention to the fact that they got rid of the other studio's pants-on-head stupid "feature".

You only get a limited number of saves too.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This user's endless pedantry is kept grey.

Key words: nutrition, philosophy, regulatory science, law, shallow realpolitik, fake cheese, game design fanfiction.

On the topic of what the community wants, I should warn folks that I was briefly a member of the Hitman Forums, and unfortunately a large proportion of the game's core fanbase are deeply enamored of gore and exploitation concepts, which is probably part of why there were more of them in each game up through absolution. IO periodically asked them what they wanted in the next game, and "dismemberment and bulletholes" was almost always the winning suggestion.

Moartoast posted:

Good scripting

You're absolutely right, I forgot about those ones in BM. I...really didn't like BM. Cool "opportunities" aren't really a game mechanic, and they were that game's main draw. And the freaking coin...way too exploitable.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2016 around 21:26

Brumaldo
Jun 29, 2013



My impression in that the community wanted more Blood Money, which is cool with me since I liked it a lot, and it seems to be the direction this game is going towards.
Everything else I don't care about.

TacticalUrbanHomo
Aug 17, 2011

by Lowtax


Dark_Swordmaster posted:

Other studio? Does IOI has multiple studios?

Oh, apparently IOI actually did do Absolution? When I read news that Hitman 6 was being transferred from Square Enix Montreal to IOI, I guess I figured SEM had done Absolution which, you have to admit, would make a lot more sense.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


I think Square-Enix Montreal were going to do their own Hitman game independent from IOI, but that idea got canned or something.

Swartz
Jul 28, 2005

I'm a friend of the family.


So I've completed the demo including the final mission, after completing things multiple ways for both the main mission and final mission. I'm impressed.

I've played all the Hitman games as they came out, and I feel this may already be my favorite in terms of how it's executed. I can't wait for the full game.

My only gripes are that the ragdolls are wonky (they were decent in Absolution) but it is kinda funny and they don't have time to fix it so it's no big deal; and I wish the game would recognize "okay, player has poisoned the drink, now go and make them take a sip".

On that note, anyone know where the bottle of Vodka is in the final mission?

Brumaldo
Jun 29, 2013



It's in a room on your left as you enter the main lobby.

Kaiju Cage Match
Nov 5, 2012



For the bath hotel mission in Contracts: Is it possible to sneak in your weapons without killing the guards at the entrance with the sniper rifle?

Is there an alternate entrance I'm missing, or can I drop them at the starting point, grab the guard uniform in the spooky hall and then go back and grab them?

EDIT: Tested it for myself, it works.

Kaiju Cage Match fucked around with this message at Feb 21, 2016 around 23:47

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This user's endless pedantry is kept grey.

Key words: nutrition, philosophy, regulatory science, law, shallow realpolitik, fake cheese, game design fanfiction.

Kaiju Cage Match posted:

For the bath hotel mission in Contracts: Is it possible to sneak in your weapons without killing the guards at the entrance with the sniper rifle?

Is there an alternate entrance I'm missing, or can I drop them at the starting point, grab the guard uniform in the spooky hall and then go back and grab them?

There's no alternate entrance, and I don't think there's a way to bring guns other than the rifle that doesn't involve massive glitching-possibly not even then. It's kinda a moot point since there are a number of other metal detectors spread through the hotel.

edit: yeah, the guard uniform would work, at least for some guns.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

Discendo Vox posted:

On the topic of what the community wants, I should warn folks that I was briefly a member of the Hitman Forums, and unfortunately a large proportion of the game's core fanbase are deeply enamored of gore and exploitation concepts, which is probably part of why there were more of them in each game up through absolution. IO periodically asked them what they wanted in the next game, and "dismemberment and bulletholes" was almost always the winning suggestion.


ehh, i am fine with more gore. the beta didnt seem that gory though. least not compared the blood money and absolution.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This user's endless pedantry is kept grey.

Key words: nutrition, philosophy, regulatory science, law, shallow realpolitik, fake cheese, game design fanfiction.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

ehh, i am fine with more gore. the beta didnt seem that gory though. least not compared the blood money and absolution.

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. My point wasn't that the game is too gory/not gory enough, it's that the fanbase IO has the most interaction with was, and probably remains, the kind of people whose chief complaint with the game was that you couldn't cut off someone's limbs and beat them with it, with accurate screaming, arterial spray, etc. This "I want to kill more hookers"/"Why can't I torture guards for more information"/"why aren't there any child targets" demographic was/are the main group IO listens to. This has consequences for the general design approach of the series, and why it's been increasingly spectacle-driven over time, and many of its mechanical systems have atrophied.


...all of the above were popular suggestions/demands on the hitmanforum website while I was around. Only the children one was controversial.

Booty Pageant
Apr 20, 2012


Discendo Vox posted:

There's no alternate entrance, and I don't think there's a way to bring guns other than the rifle that doesn't involve massive glitching-possibly not even then. It's kinda a moot point since there are a number of other metal detectors spread through the hotel.

edit: yeah, the guard uniform would work, at least for some guns.

theres a row of glass cabinets on the 3rd floor by this security room with 2 guards in it and the button to disable metal detectors
you just need to shoot the glass out and let the guards run out then you can sneak in and press the button

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

Discendo Vox posted:

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. My point wasn't that the game is too gory/not gory enough, it's that the fanbase IO has the most interaction with was, and probably remains, the kind of people whose chief complaint with the game was that you couldn't cut off someone's limbs and beat them with it, with accurate screaming, arterial spray, etc. This "I want to kill more hookers"/"Why can't I torture guards for more information"/"why aren't there any child targets" demographic was/are the main group IO listens to. This has consequences for the general design approach of the series, and why it's been increasingly spectacle-driven over time, and many of its mechanical systems have atrophied.


...all of the above were popular suggestions/demands on the hitmanforum website while I was around. Only the children one was controversial.

"your target is billy peterson, age 10. it seems that peterson has been making inroads with the school yard bullies and may be supplying them with fire works. its your job 47 to eliminate him and his gang."

but yeah some of that poo poo is just dumb. its not postal.

Brumaldo
Jun 29, 2013



Dapper_Swindler posted:

"your target is billy peterson, age 10. it seems that peterson has been making inroads with the school yard bullies and may be supplying them with fire works. its your job 47 to eliminate him and his gang."



...wire the money to the usual account.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

The video arcade made me what I am today!


Look Sir Droids posted:

My impression of the Hitman player base is its relatively small for a AAA game but also pretty dedicated. This is a game with lots of replay value built in, trying to do every mission in every available way. Add in the contracts mode and special targets, I am not too worried about staying power.

In addition to the built-in player base, YouTube has taken off in the half-a-decade since Blood Money, and I seem to remember Blood Money kill compilation and dicking-around compilation videos being popular. If you get popular YouTube "celebrities" playing the new Hitman and doing silly poo poo in it you'll have new potential players who might throw down $15 to try it out or even the full $60.

I think a new generation could get into a sandbox murder game once word of mouth gets around.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This user's endless pedantry is kept grey.

Key words: nutrition, philosophy, regulatory science, law, shallow realpolitik, fake cheese, game design fanfiction.

s0m3 guy posted:

theres a row of glass cabinets on the 3rd floor by this security room with 2 guards in it and the button to disable metal detectors
you just need to shoot the glass out and let the guards run out then you can sneak in and press the button

Dang, I never knew that! It's not listed anywhere!...welp, I know what I need to try out...

Moartoast
Jan 16, 2011

Another unfunny, threadshitting knob-end.

I've actually found the violence in the new game to be almost pleasantly cartoonish. There's still lots of "oooo, poo poo that's gotta hurt" stuff, but it's like Skate ragdoll physics most of the time and it's just wacky. Sending a crowbar flying gently through the air directly at someone's face and hearing it bonk off their head while they do a little dance and tumble over with stars above their head is... almost lighthearted? Even the brutal-looking CQC poo poo just knocks them out, even when it involves an audible crack of the skull with hammer, and the actual killing move of a neck snap is unsettlingly quiet and unceremonious.

So far there's next to none of the edgelord bullshit from Absolution, and even the stuff that hints at remnants of it barely feels edgy at all. Granted, this is the prologue where everything's diegetically make-believe, so that could very well change (The trailer at least hints at some eventual lame women-in-peril exploitation nonsense), but so far they've actually done better at keeping some modicum of taste intact than probably any other game in the franchise.

I also heard a guard respond to a report of a dead body with "For realsies?!" so this game's tone is alright so far imo. They just need to sort out the scripting stuff in some way so weirdos like me can feel ~immersed~ or whatever bullshit buzzword you wanna use for it.

Discendo Vox posted:

You're absolutely right, I forgot about those ones in BM. I...really didn't like BM. Cool "opportunities" aren't really a game mechanic, and they were that game's main draw. And the freaking coin...way too exploitable.

I dunno, BM was just before the surge of video game social media stuff, so it wasn't playing to the crowd nearly as much as later games. It definitely leaned on the "let's make the target walk around here so this conveniently placed X can kill them through Y and we can SPLITSCREEN to show how SWEET that KILL is" design a bit too much, so I can see your complaint there, but I wouldn't say it's the main draw. Mind you, designing a game like this is all about making sure the player has clear opportunities to accomplish an objective, it's just that they became more static setpiece-oriented and less naturalistic as time went on, which started limiting creative options in BM but didn't start being a real problem until Absolution. Tho that's largely down to personal taste.

I could be at peace with the setpiece stuff if it was just a passive part of the design, rather than having every element of the level and AI design bend to point towards this sweet poo poo that the devs set up hells yeah bro. That literal all-caps OPPORTUNITY REVEALING prompt is practically self-parody at this point.

Booty Pageant
Apr 20, 2012


am i the only person who likes the original hitman storyline???

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


s0m3 guy posted:

am i the only person who likes the original hitman storyline???

There's not really much to the storyline in any of the games.

Codename 47: You're some clone who's been trained to kill since a kid who escapes during routine training, falls in with an agency who puts hits on people and then find out all of your major targets were part of the French Foreign Legion who were the genetic basis of 47. 47 gets called back to the asylum he escaped from, murders his clone brothers and then the professor who created him.

Silent Assassin: The brother of one of your targets in the first game kidnaps some priest and 47 comes out of retirement to perform hits and retrieve parts of a nuclear missile for him, his identity gets blown and he tries to kill 47, you kill him and save the priest.

Contracts: It was literally all a dream except for the final level.

Blood Money: Some FBI guy is the head of a rival agency who really wants 47 dead, so his death gets faked so he can kill the FBI guy at his own funeral.

Absolution: Turns out the Agency is corrupt and is training a little girl to be a supersoldier killer and 47 doesn't want her to go through the same things he did.

The series works best without much of a story. When the story becomes the focus of the game, like in Absolution then problems arise.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Mr. Fortitude posted:


The series works best without much of a story. When the story becomes the focus of the game, like in Absolution then problems arise.

I sometimes wonder if Absolution's structure would have been tolerable if the story was at least good, but its not so

Dark_Swordmaster
Oct 31, 2011


Mr. Fortitude posted:

Absolution: Turns out the Agency is corrupt and is training a little girl to be a supersoldier killer and 47 doesn't want her to go through the same things he did.

The series works best without much of a story. When the story becomes the focus of the game, like in Absolution then problems arise.

I GOT ME A HITMAN!

khwarezm posted:

I sometimes wonder if Absolution's structure would have been tolerable if the story was at least good, but its not so


It would not have been.

Moartoast
Jan 16, 2011

Another unfunny, threadshitting knob-end.

It's still hilarious to me that Square Enix published Absolution and Thi4f within like two years of each other, and they make so many of the same mistakes in such similar ways, and wasted potential in similar ways, too. I even remember that they used the same VA for their "101" trailers that give bullet point rundowns of mechanics/story/whatever. Those games dovetailed so nicely as hot messes of confused adaptations of classic freeform games.

Mr. Fortitude
Jul 9, 2010


khwarezm posted:

I sometimes wonder if Absolution's structure would have been tolerable if the story was at least good, but its not so

The story of Absolution would have been fine if the level design was just as open as Blood Money. It's just that Blood Money designed the story around the levels whereas you get the impression the opposite happened with Absolution.

Kaiju Cage Match
Nov 5, 2012



Absolution would've been OK at best if it was Agent Smith's Fun Adventure.

(You'd just get captured a lot)

Kaiju Cage Match fucked around with this message at Feb 22, 2016 around 03:20

Accordion Man
Nov 7, 2012


Moartoast posted:

It's still hilarious to me that Square Enix published Absolution and Thi4f within like two years of each other, and they make so many of the same mistakes in such similar ways, and wasted potential in similar ways, too. I even remember that they used the same VA for their "101" trailers that give bullet point rundowns of mechanics/story/whatever. Those games dovetailed so nicely as hot messes of confused adaptations of classic freeform games.
Also that Dishonored was a hell of a lot better at being both Thief and Hitman than them. Like the Boyle Party was pretty much the best Hitman level since Blood Money.

khwarezm
Oct 26, 2010

Deal with it.

Moartoast posted:

It's still hilarious to me that Square Enix published Absolution and Thi4f within like two years of each other, and they make so many of the same mistakes in such similar ways, and wasted potential in similar ways, too. I even remember that they used the same VA for their "101" trailers that give bullet point rundowns of mechanics/story/whatever. Those games dovetailed so nicely as hot messes of confused adaptations of classic freeform games.

Shamus Young had a really good lets play of Absolution, and they noticed that about Square Enix too. Their theory, which I think is plausible, is that at some point Square Enix sunk a poo poo ton of money in state of the art motion capture tech and the resulting sunk cost fallacy demanded that they spend massive amounts of resources on lengthy cut-scenes and over-intrusive plots in games that really didn't need them to get their moneys worth. It would also help explain the way the most recent Tomb Raider and Deus Ex games also feel like Hollywood movies at many points, but at least it works better there since they remembered to hire actual writers.

khwarezm fucked around with this message at Feb 22, 2016 around 03:56

Nice Van My Man
Jan 1, 2008
Hello

khwarezm posted:

Shamus Young had a really good lets play of Absolution, and they noticed that about Square Enix too. Their theory, which I think is plausible, is that at some point Square Enix sunk a poo poo ton of money in state of the art motion capture tech and the resulting sunk cost fallacy demanded that spend massive amounts of resources on lengthy cut-scenes and over-intrusive plots in games that really didn't need them to get their moneys worth. It would also help explain the way the most recent Tomb Raider and Deus Ex games which also feel like Hollywood movies at many points, but at least it works better there since they remembered to hire actual writers.

The only thing I remember about the Absolution cut scenes were the tongues. I had just never seen such beautifully mocapped tongues before.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

This user's endless pedantry is kept grey.

Key words: nutrition, philosophy, regulatory science, law, shallow realpolitik, fake cheese, game design fanfiction.

Moartoast posted:

More good Tho that's largely down to personal taste.

Yeah, we're on the same wavelength. Other aspects of BM's design that frustrated me: A tutorial and final level that couldn't be completely stealthed, the badly implemented money and reputation systems (remember the NaN values in the newspaper?) and the wasted potential of a plot involving rival assassin targets, who wound up as a series of scripted events (Heaven and Hell especially- the soundproofed arena was just shameless). I think I was spoiled by starting the series with Contracts, which had a ton of polish compared with all the other games, and which managed to be much more tonally coherent.

khwarezm posted:

Shamus Young had a really good lets play of Absolution, and they noticed that about Square Enix too.

Thanks for posting this, I need to check it out!

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at Feb 22, 2016 around 05:00

OxMan
May 13, 2006

COME SEE
GRAVE DIGGER
LIVE AT MONSTER TRUCK JAM 2KXX




Dark_Swordmaster posted:

I GOT ME A HITMAN!

Now, I don't normally yee haw, but for this new hitman? Yee haaaw!

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PaybackJack
May 21, 2003

...as much revenge as any man could possibly take.


New Hitman felt quite a bit like a good mix of Blood Money and newer, friendlier, designs. Tutorial is very paint by numbers, but after that I jacked a police uniform, went to his office planted a bomb, waited for him to get there and boom. Walked away clean with no scripting or game telling me what to do. Only real issue is that the first couple beta levels are pretty small, hopefully we get some larger ones later on. The keyboard controls were pretty strange too but you should be able to remap those. Running felt very sticky but that could just be my shift key being broken from when I dropped my keyboard on the floor.

Solid Hitman experience, I'm in for the season. Looking forward to contracts mode.

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