THAT... is the Hitman Megathread

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Pilchenstein: May 17, 2012; So your plan is for half of us to die?; Hot Rope Guy

shut up blegum posted:

Or something along the lines of: 'well, of to the trash! Just kidding haha'

My favourite is the world-weary "look what I found" :v:

# ? Jun 30, 2017 13:15

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 08:39

HORMELCHILI: Jan 13, 2010

Nakar posted:

You don't understand NPC vision if you're saying this. First of all, you cannot possibly be watching every NPC on the map in places like Landslide's festival area or the public areas in Paris or whatever. It's too easy for a person two dozen yards away facing not-quite-entirely away from you to spot you doing something one time out of ten, and it's loving infuriating for it to happen that one time because it shouldn't happen at all, ever. Either a person can see what you are going to do or they can't, and if you take the same approach you should either always be spotted or never be spotted.

Also you're not addressing the point that normal guard behavior is actually more unpredictable and alert than when a guard sees a gun or a body. That doesn't make any loving sense. I can make a guard stupid by putting a gun on the floor but if he's just standing bored at his post he's Mr. loving Eagle Eyes. If somebody's going to sweep an area visually it should be after they're alerted and not before.

It wasn't designed to be this way. Before the Summer Bonus Episode patch there was no headturning; as the game was originally designed it was not an intended factor. The headturn thing is a hackjob nerf that doesn't function correctly and just screws you over. They did intend to add it to the game but that doesn't mean they designed the game with the feature in mind. Certain maps are badly hurt by it, like The Icon.

Italicized part is not true. Guards do not stay looking in a direction for consistent amounts of time and can and will look away only to immediately look back a second later for no goddamn reason. Try picking the apartment door near the van on Landslide and enjoy trying to guess when the bodyguard by the sign will turn away long enough to not catch you breaking in. And since the camera has to be pointed at the door to get the prompt to pick it open, you're always taking a risk because the guard will no longer be visible on your screen.

Also the area behind a guard isn't safe. If a guard gets even the tiniest inkling of you out of their peripheral vision they can (but won't always) turn completely around immediately. And someone responding to a sound will look back and forth so wide that they can literally spot you from directly behind them. It's all super random and it rewards cheese strategies like knockout throws and legshots. I hate having to knock NPCs out. I'd rather distract them and sneak past. But distracting them and sneaking past is actually more risky than incapacitating them in a lot of cases, and that's stupid.

You haven't actually provided a reason to explain what the behavior adds to the game for anyone playing it other than frustration. It can't be predicted so it can't be exploited or controlled. Your argument is basically "only speedrunners care and gently caress speedrunners heh " but this is a game where your score at the end of a map is literally based on your time spent completing it. By the rules of the game itself, speedrunning is what distinguishes who did the mission better presuming SA is preserved. If you're going to have time-based scoring, you shouldn't also have random uncontrollable elements that literally exist to say "gently caress you, you lose 5-10 seconds or have to restart." I'm perfectly okay with certain activities not working because they'll blow SA, but I am not down with them only happening some of the time because it means having a good route and good execution is only part of the factor that gets you a good time; the remaining factor is pure chance, meaning it ultimately rewards the people willing to run a route a hundred times for it to all work right once. I'd rather have a risky action just not work ever than only have it work sometimes.

For example, I'd be fine with a wider vision cone on NPCs if it weren't random. I'm not asking for the game not to be difficult, I'm asking for the difficulty to be consistent. I cannot see any valid argument for why this shouldn't be the case in a speed-based puzzle stealth game. Solving a puzzle isn't fun when some rear end in a top hat periodically comes in and sweeps all the loose pieces onto the floor.

This is correct but I'd just note that the x-ray thing totally still exists. What NPCs can see lags as much as 2-3 seconds behind what the player can see in-game. This is due to certain unavoidable or at least difficult-to-fix processing priority issues and it can be worked around with certain methods but it's bad in the sense that the player cannot trust what they see, which completely shoots down the "you should be more observant" argument. It's a lot of esoteric bullshit that the good players have basically worked around in exploitative ways and I don't really like that but will continue using the exploits if the game is going to keep cheating.

As much as Kotti whines, and he whines a lot where the rest of us have just learned to deal with it, Hitman definitely is at times a great game that I don't want to play because the bullshit just makes me angry.

Yeah like I discovered that from a Stylist start you can poison Sato's wine without needing a waiter disguise because despite there being 2 models looking at you and a female stylist standing right next to the wine glass at an angle, the only person who can ever catch you is loving Sato himself headturning you from 10 feet away, and that only happens like 5% of the time. If I trusted what I was seeing I would never attempt to poison that glass because obviously the model looking right at me will spot me. But she doesn't, and the stylist right next to me doesn't either because she's locked in an animation that doesn't have random headturning and can't see poo poo.

The only way I could discover any of this was by repeated trial and error. Observing the situation would've completely misled me. This is why some speedrun videos get comments like "That works?", because it doesn't look like it should work and only does because of some obscure gnostic game mechanic knowledge that a person either discovered (like my Napoleon pre-lure thing) or that someone else in "the community" shared with only those who care about that kind of thing. Like did you know that even though guards have the dot above their heads they won't spot you in high alert? But they will spot you in regular alert. What is the difference between regular and high alert? Did you even know there was a distinction between alert, high alert, and combat? And did you know regular NPCs won't spot you in any panic state? But only if you're trespassing; being armed or taking an illegal action causes them to still spot you. Why does any of this make sense? How was anybody supposed to know about it? I sure as hell didn't until a couple of top speedrunners explained it to me, and I'd had the game for like six loving months before I even knew about that bullshit.

Dropping and exploding a duck or emptying an unsuppressed handgun into a wall shouldn't allow you to just run through a trespassing area. It's idiotic and it shouldn't be rewarded. But it works, and it's often more reliable than trying to sneak past because civilian NPCs who would otherwise catch you are panicked and won't spot you even if you walk right up to them. That should not be more consistent than crouch-walking quietly behind two Tech Crew guys who are looking at their equipment and conversing with each other, but go ahead and try it on the second floor part of Paris and you'll find that firing a loud handgun out of their lines of sight makes it easier to get past them than trying to sneak. That shouldn't be how it works.

Imagine reading this lmfao

# ? Jun 30, 2017 13:22

HelixFox: Dec 20, 2004; Heed the words of this ancient spirit.

RE: guard dialogue, this is my favourite:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwelBiwqiEU

# ? Jun 30, 2017 13:35

Tumble: Jun 24, 2003; I'm not thinking of anything!

As a counter-point that huge fountain of text up above, actually this game has awesome as hell stealth mechanics and I don't find it too challenging to sneak around just about anywhere. It's very easy to read when you're going to get spotted, and the game is quite generous about allowing you to sneak past people.

Last night, I was role-playing that the ICA is very stingy about expense reports so if 47 used a coin to distract people, he has to get it back. I wish that this game would allow you to set up silly mission goals like that when you're making contracts.

Also, I wish that the fun end-of-mission rankings from Blood Money would make a comeback. It's a tiny bit disheartening that game is so binary when it comes to grading you on how you did. But I think I've mentioned that here already.

Edit - Oh, also, has anybody found a point to using the HWK-21 yet? It takes like 4 body shots to kill somebody so the increased clip size doesn't do much good, and 47 reloads so fast that it's kind of moot anyways.

Tumble fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Jun 30, 2017

# ? Jun 30, 2017 16:03

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Tumble posted:

As a counter-point that huge fountain of text up above, actually this game has awesome as hell stealth mechanics and I don't find it too challenging to sneak around just about anywhere. It's very easy to read when you're going to get spotted, and the game is quite generous about allowing you to sneak past people.

Again, the issue isn't that I can get caught, but that all the ways to avoid getting caught are counterintuitive or exploitative or slow. I can easily get SA on anything if I don't care about time. When (and if) time actually starts mattering to you, these problems will begin to crop up for you. If time and SA rankings are irrelevant to you then the game is basically flawless; you get lots of opportunities to succeed.

Tumble posted:

Last night, I was role-playing that the ICA is very stingy about expense reports so if 47 used a coin to distract people, he has to get it back. I wish that this game would allow you to set up silly mission goals like that when you're making contracts.

Agreed. Also want things like "no suppressed gun" or "no climbing" or weapon disguise or disguise change restrictions. Escalations can already do this and nobody forces you to do a user contract so why not let people go nuts?

Tumble posted:

Edit - Oh, also, has anybody found a point to using the HWK-21 yet? It takes like 4 body shots to kill somebody so the increased clip size doesn't do much good, and 47 reloads so fast that it's kind of moot anyways.

It's only good as a distraction. No difference from guard handguns and doesn't kill better without headshots. The ICA19 and Silverballer kill in fewer body hits and have comparable headshot range plus better accuracy. The HWK-21 Covert is also better with a bigger magazine and basically identical damage.

I really want to see a hyper-accurate high-power unsilenced handgun for midrange pistol sniping, but at the moment there are basically only three types of pistol and the suppressed version of each is the best.

It isn't good for much but it isn't useless either. Just useful for a dumb reason.

# ? Jun 30, 2017 18:13

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

I want Suit Retrieval bonuses back.

# ? Jun 30, 2017 18:54

Goa Tse-tung: Feb 11, 2008; ;3; Yams Fan

I want to play dress-up with 47 :shobon:

# ? Jun 30, 2017 22:47

where the red fern gropes: Aug 24, 2011

outfits i want:

pizza deliveryman
clown (again)
porn director
lifeguard
weather reporter
secretary
the head section of a Chinese New Year dragon
DJ
garbage man
hotdog
schoolboy with propeller hat (super suit inside primary school, nobody can see through it)
housewife
Pope
Asian tourist
zookeeper

# ? Jul 1, 2017 12:13

Brofessor Slayton: Jan 1, 2012

where the red fern gropes posted:

outfits i want:

clown porn director

dragon Pope

But yeah, the actual list you've posted is good.

# ? Jul 1, 2017 12:36

Rev. Melchisedech Howler: Sep 5, 2006; You know. Leather.

The graphic novel and/or furry convention, with all the disguises that would entail, is top of my wishlist.

# ? Jul 1, 2017 14:14

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

A convention center in general would make for a pretty amazing level. Make it akin to Paris, with a more benign (but potentially silly) convention happening in the main area with some kind of nefarious goings-on in the more restricted areas. Staff areas allow for slipping between. Challenge for killing the restricted-area target in cosplay or a fursuit or something.

Wouldn't be the first time 47's dressed up in a cartoon animal suit.

# ? Jul 1, 2017 15:56

Zaffy: Sep 15, 2003

Restrained Crown Posse posted:

The graphic novel and/or furry convention, with all the disguises that would entail, is top of my wishlist.

I would never get SA because I'd kill everyone on every play-through.

# ? Jul 1, 2017 17:33

Rev. Melchisedech Howler: Sep 5, 2006; You know. Leather.

The ultimate test in restraint.

edit: Even after taking off a fursuit disguise, you're operating with a handicap as people can now smell you several feet away.

edit2: I'd also like BSO runs to be possible. Birthday Suit Only :pervert:

Rev. Melchisedech Howler fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Jul 1, 2017

# ? Jul 1, 2017 17:42

SubponticatePoster: Aug 9, 2004; Every day takes figurin' out all over again how to fuckin' live.; Slippery Tilde

Restrained Crown Posse posted:

The ultimate test in restraint.

edit: Even after taking off a fursuit disguise, you're operating with a handicap as people can now smell you several feet away.

edit2: I'd also like BSO runs to be possible. Birthday Suit Only

"Good evening, 47. Your target is the CEO of an exclusive nudist colony in New Jersey."

# ? Jul 1, 2017 19:11

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

Nakar posted:

A convention center in general would make for a pretty amazing level. Make it akin to Paris, with a more benign (but potentially silly) convention happening in the main area with some kind of nefarious goings-on in the more restricted areas. Staff areas allow for slipping between. Challenge for killing the restricted-area target in cosplay or a fursuit or something.

Wouldn't be the first time 47's dressed up in a cartoon animal suit.

If you can't drown your target in the Lonely Ball Pit I don't want to hear about it :colbert:

# ? Jul 1, 2017 19:19

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

SubponticatePoster posted:

"Good evening, 47. Your target is the CEO of an exclusive nudist colony in New Jersey."

It would be funny to have to go after a guy who's got a Gaddafi-style all-female bodyguard staff

# ? Jul 1, 2017 19:39

Lareine: Jul 22, 2007; KIIIRRRYYYUUUUU CHAAAANNNNNN

StashAugustine posted:

It would be funny to have to go after a guy who's got a Gaddafi-style all-female bodyguard staff

I don't recall 47 ever dressing in drag. Would be a first!

# ? Jul 1, 2017 20:11

Zaphod42: Sep 13, 2012; If there's anything more important than my ego around, I want it caught and shot now.

Man, I hate Colorado. Its an awkward map. Too many dudes, not enough stuff, all the outfits look the same... ugh.

Pretty much the only level I really hate though.

Pigbuster posted:

The best thing about Hitman AI is how they'll react when you throw something at their face before it actually hits them. That little detail might've honestly pushed me over the edge to buy this game.

You're posting in the hitman thread about how cool hitman is but you don't own hitman? :psyduck:

Buy it already dude.

# ? Jul 1, 2017 20:15

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Hey is Contracts worth getting?

# ? Jul 1, 2017 20:44

champagne posting: Apr 5, 2006; YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

StashAugustine posted:

It would be funny to have to go after a guy who's got a Gaddafi-style all-female bodyguard staff

Absolution has this and it was not a good idea.

# ? Jul 1, 2017 21:05

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Boiled Water posted:

Absolution has this and it was not a good idea.

As a game mechanic or because Absolution was trash?

# ? Jul 1, 2017 21:14

champagne posting: Apr 5, 2006; YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

It had sexy nuns which you strangled in a field.

# ? Jul 1, 2017 21:41

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

It was also a thing in SA, the penthouse mission.

...I just remembered, Absolution had paid DLC costumes. God that game sucked.

# ? Jul 1, 2017 22:50

Antares: Jan 13, 2006

Discendo Vox posted:

It was also a thing in SA, the penthouse mission.

...I just remembered, Absolution had paid DLC costumes. God that game sucked.

so does 2016 and if you're not wearing the white requiem suit everywhere and experiencing the unique NPC comments i feel bad for you

# ? Jul 1, 2017 22:53

stranger danger: May 24, 2006

StashAugustine posted:

Hey is Contracts worth getting?

Yes, it has some great levels. But every game has been an improvement on the last (Absolution doesn't count) so it's not gonna be as good as BM

# ? Jul 1, 2017 22:57

Goa Tse-tung: Feb 11, 2008; ;3; Yams Fan

Zaphod42 posted:

You're posting in the hitman thread about how cool hitman is but you don't own hitman?

Buy it already dude.

I read it as past tense, he already has it, but that detail alone would have been enough

also: it would be cool to replay the terrible Absolution levels with this game system

# ? Jul 1, 2017 22:57

Dilettante.: Feb 18, 2011

Antares posted:

so does 2016 and if you're not wearing the white requiem suit everywhere and experiencing the unique NPC comments i feel bad for you

Laughed my rear end off in Marrakesh when a passing guard muttered "Wait, is that..Pitbull?"

# ? Jul 1, 2017 23:07

dc3k: Feb 18, 2003; what.

Is there anywhere I can see patch/content notes for the last ~6 months or so? I'm completely out of the loop as I haven't played since around the time the last map was released.

# ? Jul 1, 2017 23:11

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

There should be female guards, at least generic security; it would be more equal but more important would allow IOI to make guard disguises more rare for game balance reasons on some maps. Have an access point that's easy to bypass but the only guard is a woman so you can sneak past or KO her but her clothes are useless so you're stuck trespassing until you can find another guard. Civilian women already do this; you can't steal an outfit from female Palace Staff or a female scientist though on Paris there are almost never lone female staffers nowhere near a male staffer or disguise pickup. But it'd be easy to adjust that for new levels to make certain approaches more difficult.

I suspect the sole reason there aren't female guards in '16 is to cut down on model work and voice acting since guards have the same lines regardless of how they sound out of combat. But if they hired one guy to record guard lines surely they could hire one woman to reread the same lines for season two, and it'd be a good additional complication for season two maps that doesn't fundamentally alter gameplay.

EDIT: Escalation complication "all guards are now female." And then require you kill the target as a guard. :getin:

Nakar fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Jul 1, 2017

# ? Jul 1, 2017 23:20

gtrmp: Sep 29, 2008; Oba-Ma... Oba-Ma! Oba-Ma, aasha deh!

StashAugustine posted:

Hey is Contracts worth getting?

If you liked Blood Money, definitely yes. It's not as consistently good as BM is, but the standout levels are some of the best in the series.

# ? Jul 1, 2017 23:21

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Hunter and Hunted is the only good final level in a Hitman (not counting Situs Inversus which is great but not really a "final" level) and I will fight anyone who says otherwise. That level is loving perfect because it primes you to play it one way but allows you to ghost it SA/SO. Forced combat finales can gently caress off.

# ? Jul 1, 2017 23:27

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Amendment XXV was all right but kinda unremarkable other than "holy poo poo I'm killing the vice president!" (Also the bit where you can smuggle a bomb into someone's briefcase was funny). Requiem kinda sucked, I wish they'd finished the planned stealth route where you could sneak out of the coffin and escape without being seen

StashAugustine fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jul 1, 2017

# ? Jul 1, 2017 23:35

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Amendment XXV is cool but the final level of Blood Money is Requiem. A cool level but dumb in that you just murder everyone. Hunter and Hunted makes you think you are already spotted and have to kill everyone but you aren't and you don't. That has never been equalled and is part of my love for Contracts.

And yes I know it's just ripping off Leon but as homages go it's incredible.

# ? Jul 1, 2017 23:40

Goa Tse-tung: Feb 11, 2008; ;3; Yams Fan

dc3k posted:

Is there anywhere I can see patch/content notes for the last ~6 months or so? I'm completely out of the loop as I haven't played since around the time the last map was released.

sure you can check on steam the notifications

# ? Jul 1, 2017 23:58

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Antares posted:

so does 2016 and if you're not wearing the white requiem suit everywhere and experiencing the unique NPC comments i feel bad for you

Oh, I absolutely have that one, the difference is it's cosmetic, and there's one, and it's a preorder bonus. Absolution has 4, several bonus guns that produce material gameplay differences, and on release each costed more than a dollar.

# ? Jul 2, 2017 00:16

Antares: Jan 13, 2006

Discendo Vox posted:

Oh, I absolutely have that one, the difference is it's cosmetic, and there's one, and it's a preorder bonus. Absolution has 4, several bonus guns that produce material gameplay differences, and on release each costed more than a dollar.

oh yeah that poo poo is dumb.

# ? Jul 2, 2017 00:17

Nakar: Sep 2, 2002; Ultima Ratio Regum

Discendo Vox posted:

Oh, I absolutely have that one, the difference is it's cosmetic, and there's one, and it's a preorder bonus. Absolution has 4, several bonus guns that produce material gameplay differences, and on release each costed more than a dollar.

Technically the Requiem Pack does offer a material gameplay difference. The suit is cosmetic, as is the ICA Chrome, but The Pale Duck gives you a second Remote Duck which is honestly pretty incredible.

Silly thing to get worked up over of course but amusing that the suit and gun do gently caress-all but the rubber duck is OP.

# ? Jul 2, 2017 00:35

StashAugustine: Mar 24, 2013; Do not trust in hope- it will betray you! Only faith and hatred sustain.

Is there a good "Contracts for people who played Blood Money" guide?

# ? Jul 2, 2017 00:35

Ms Adequate: Oct 30, 2011; Baby even when I'm dead and gone
You will always be my only one, my only one
When the night is calling
No matter who I become
You will always be my only one, my only one, my only one
When the night is calling

The best cosmetic poo poo is dressing as 47... in Sleeping Dogs :getin:

# ? Jul 2, 2017 00:36

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 08:39

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Nakar posted:

Technically the Requiem Pack does offer a material gameplay difference. The suit is cosmetic, as is the ICA Chrome, but The Pale Duck gives you a second Remote Duck which is honestly pretty incredible.

Silly thing to get worked up over of course but amusing that the suit and gun do gently caress-all but the rubber duck is OP.

That is until you unlock remote Napoleon which is the best remote of all.

Playing music on drop means it also serves as an instant audio distraction device.

# ? Jul 2, 2017 01:12

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > THAT... is the Hitman Megathread

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