THAT... is the Hitman Megathread

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Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Contracts is my favorite game in the series. The overarching plot conceit effectively prevented IOI from writing an actual script, which was good because they keep demonstrating they can't be trusted to do so. Voicework for the game was fantastic, and in contrast with BM, levels did not feel like a series of increasingly obvious setpiece deathtraps that you walk up to and hit "use" on. Prelim reviews of the fashion show make me nervious- RPS reports that the scripted kill "opportunity" system continues absolution's approach of triggering scripted events when you're nearby to witness them and act, making it less of a working environment to navigate and more of a carnival ride with periodic "Press F to kill in this totally sick way, dude, don't forget to tell your friends" moments.

Things to do away with:
Instinct
Getting beaten in cutscenes
Money

Things to bring back:
Unlockable weapons that can be brought between missions
Contracts mode
Enemies that seem remotely competent (Hunter Hunted was the best)

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Feb 12, 2016

# ¿ Feb 12, 2016 10:32

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 07:19

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

For those needing evidence of how terribad Absolution's mechanics are, I'd like to introduce prenatual's Absolution Perfect Assassin Playthrough. prenatual, who has sadly retired from making new videos, is the stealth king, but you can see how frustrated he gets with the systems in Absolution.

Moartoast posted:

The two big assassination-themed series' that had Jesper Goddamn Kyd loving dropped him despite getting even bigger budgets than when they had him, and have never picked him back up even when literally anyone that knows him wants him back.

If that doesn't reflect how hosed up this industry is, I don't know what does.

It might also indicate that Kyd is difficult to work with or overcharges for his services. I like his music, but when you see that pattern...

Dark_Swordmaster posted:

I love the way the story is literally almost not-there in Blood Money until the last few missions. The fact that, unless you actively listen and seek it out and follow it you can get royally hosed in You Better Watch Out... is great. That load screen with the '?' over the silhouette and then the whole sequence involving that was the perfect storytelling for this series.

The planned story went through an absolute blender in Blood Money because they ran out of time/money during development. It unfortunately appears that most of the "show don't tell" moments in that game were because they ran out of time to budget long-winded cutscenes. Just about every mission has large sections that were hastily rearranged to make them functional. For example...

There was originally going to be only one Parchezzi clone in the game.
The final level was originally going to be stealthable if you waited for the platform to lower- an underground morgue area was scrapped from the map.

There are similar problems with SA- I've theorized that the different locations in that game were worked on by different teams, because there's design whiplash whenever you go between "chapters" in that game.

racism edit: for those who haven't paid more attention to the dialogue (you lucky bastards), the "weapons dealer" in one of the Absolution maps is meant to be a "New York Jew" stereotype, tossing around terms in yiddish and making references to attending an award ceremony in...manhattan, iirc.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Feb 12, 2016

# ¿ Feb 12, 2016 21:41

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Dark_Swordmaster posted:

Yeah, I can totally get dude-from-RPS' complaint about things ONLY happening when you trigger them and then going on a loop, but that could just be the bits we've seen. The old Hitman games had EXACTLY that in addition to the levels moving on a set timeframe.

They did not. The only things that did that were things where the event was because you were doing something, particularly speaking to an Agency contact.

# ¿ Feb 20, 2016 23:13

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

On the topic of what the community wants, I should warn folks that I was briefly a member of the Hitman Forums, and unfortunately a large proportion of the game's core fanbase are deeply enamored of gore and exploitation concepts, which is probably part of why there were more of them in each game up through absolution. IO periodically asked them what they wanted in the next game, and "dismemberment and bulletholes" was almost always the winning suggestion.

Moartoast posted:

Good scripting

You're absolutely right, I forgot about those ones in BM. I...really didn't like BM. Cool "opportunities" aren't really a game mechanic, and they were that game's main draw. And the freaking coin...way too exploitable.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Feb 21, 2016

# ¿ Feb 21, 2016 22:24

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Kaiju Cage Match posted:

For the bath hotel mission in Contracts: Is it possible to sneak in your weapons without killing the guards at the entrance with the sniper rifle?

Is there an alternate entrance I'm missing, or can I drop them at the starting point, grab the guard uniform in the spooky hall and then go back and grab them?

There's no alternate entrance, and I don't think there's a way to bring guns other than the rifle that doesn't involve massive glitching-possibly not even then. It's kinda a moot point since there are a number of other metal detectors spread through the hotel.

edit: yeah, the guard uniform would work, at least for some guns.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2016 00:48

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Dapper_Swindler posted:

ehh, i am fine with more gore. the beta didnt seem that gory though. least not compared the blood money and absolution.

Sorry, I wasn't being clear. My point wasn't that the game is too gory/not gory enough, it's that the fanbase IO has the most interaction with was, and probably remains, the kind of people whose chief complaint with the game was that you couldn't cut off someone's limbs and beat them with it, with accurate screaming, arterial spray, etc. This "I want to kill more hookers"/"Why can't I torture guards for more information"/"why aren't there any child targets" demographic was/are the main group IO listens to. This has consequences for the general design approach of the series, and why it's been increasingly spectacle-driven over time, and many of its mechanical systems have atrophied.

...all of the above were popular suggestions/demands on the hitmanforum website while I was around. Only the children one was controversial.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2016 01:06

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

s0m3 guy posted:

theres a row of glass cabinets on the 3rd floor by this security room with 2 guards in it and the button to disable metal detectors
you just need to shoot the glass out and let the guards run out then you can sneak in and press the button

Dang, I never knew that! It's not listed anywhere!...welp, I know what I need to try out...

# ¿ Feb 22, 2016 02:02

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Moartoast posted:

More good Tho that's largely down to personal taste.

Yeah, we're on the same wavelength. Other aspects of BM's design that frustrated me: A tutorial and final level that couldn't be completely stealthed, the badly implemented money and reputation systems (remember the NaN values in the newspaper?) and the wasted potential of a plot involving rival assassin targets, who wound up as a series of scripted events (Heaven and Hell especially- the soundproofed arena was just shameless). I think I was spoiled by starting the series with Contracts, which had a ton of polish compared with all the other games, and which managed to be much more tonally coherent.

khwarezm posted:

Shamus Young had a really good lets play of Absolution, and they noticed that about Square Enix too.

Thanks for posting this, I need to check it out!

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Feb 22, 2016

# ¿ Feb 22, 2016 05:44

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Kajeesus posted:

Additionally, if you break into the locked wing on the first floor, there's an officer taking a shower in one of the rooms, whose uniform you can swipe when he's not flexing by the mirror. Police will allow you through the detectors when you're in uniform.

That one I did know about- I didn't remember it let me through metal detectors, though- I've always been a fiberwire only target only kinda guy.

# ¿ Feb 22, 2016 09:40

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Mr. Fortitude posted:

You know, the identity of the man who worked alongside Sergei in Hitman 2 never was revealed and 47 never did encounter him. I'm wondering if that new trailer will shed some light on him.

That guy (commonly called "Mystery man" by users during the hitman 2 era or Mr. X after his appearance in the absolution sniper challenge) may actually be the person from the trailer. His narrative would match pretty well. On the other hand, he gives off a massive Neeson vibe. As long as it's not more Alpha Zerox poo poo. Other trailer notes:

The establishing helicopter shot is confusing-it doesn't connect to anything else in the trailer. The closest thing in any of the games would be the escape from Shogun Showdown.
With the exception of the A Vintage Year reference, none of the kills depicted can be performed quite as shown.
Rubber Duck appears in the scope before you see it directly.
Paris was the location on the ticket, the location of the narrator, and the location where 47 was shot in Contracts/the leadup to Blood Money.

~~edit: they may be trying to imply/retcon that this new guy is the one that actually shot 47.~~ I am dumb. The kills are in "chronological" order- the order of games released, though probably not the order they occurred in. It's great that the best they could come up with for Absolution was that horrendous strip club level.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Feb 24, 2016

# ¿ Feb 24, 2016 18:21

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

RPS is reporting that bugs are pretty common- and detection ranges are pretty limited. They also have the same complaint about proximity-flagged events. How does this square up with other folks' impressions?

Profanity posted:

The helicopter shot is leading to ICA's testing/training facility that you play in the '20 years ago' prologue, and the beta.

Yeah, I hadn't seen much of the beta "story", so I missed that part-my bad!

# ¿ Feb 25, 2016 05:35

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Mierenneuker posted:

If there were no triggers you'd probably end up spending a lot of time waiting for stuff to happen. I remember being frustrated by a Silent Assassin attempt (or one of the challenges, not sure) of the Chinese New Year level in Absolution simply because there was so much downtime between the first and second kill. Especially since there were a lot of ways to screw up the third one.

Absolution's not a great example because it's scripted proximity event city.

Brazilianpeanutwar posted:

I'd like to play a hitman level where you play as someone getting their revenge on hitman, you have to chase him through a big level and all the while he's changing his disguises and knocking people out, if you don't catch him before he reaches the end of the level it's game over.

Like pacman but with strangulation.

Something like this was the plan for the New Orleans and Amendment XXV levels in Blood Money, but it proved to have too many working parts and not be very fun, which is why the devs added the payment delivery part and made it really easy to start up/disrupt the scripting that caused the hit in NO.

# ¿ Feb 25, 2016 15:35

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

My working theory on SA is that in addition to IO's seemingly constant budget/schedule shortage problems, completely different teams were responsible for the different "location" sets of missions in the game. The design approach used in different locations is generally consistent with separate teams experimenting with and coming to different conclusions about the proper mission philosophy. I haven't played codename 47, but I suspect the same approach was used there, given the similar diversity of approaches.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2016 00:25

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, there's no better time to watch retired stealth superstar prenatual's Absolution Perfect Assassin Playthrough. Prenatual basically breaks the game over his knee in a wide array of ways to complete the game with an absurd ruleset: Suit only/Purist/No non-target knockouts or kills/ All targets killed with fiber wire/All evidence collected/All bodies hidden, with nigh-impossibly low times. Best of all, it's annotated so you can learn exactly how he does it.

:siren:

This includes the bullet time tutorial area.

It's a shame- MGSV basically sapped his will to play and he's stopped recording videos.

Anyhoo,
Fave kills from each game I've played:

SA: St. Petersburg Revisited, you know who, fiberwire. Tensest, best kill in the series, despite how much I love Contracts.

Contracts: Deadly Cargo, Boris, SWAT infiltration/bomb disarm.

BM: Requiem, Alexander Leland Cayne, suicide.

Absolution: Ummmm....This, which I managed to pull off the beginning of. Skipping most of the penthouse level was great.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Feb 26, 2016

# ¿ Feb 26, 2016 08:42

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Mr. Fortitude posted:

I'm pretty sure those kills were from past games. The fugu fish was from the first Japan level in Silent Assassin, the drowning was from C47/Contracts in the hotel and the strangulation was from the first real level of Blood Money I believe.

You're right- I'm not sure which mission from Codename 47 is the basis for the sniper rifle scene at the start, though. It's one of the chinese ones, going by the sign. None of them gave you a silenced sniper rifle, I think.

It still has nothing on the intro to Contracts.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 10:25 on Feb 27, 2016

# ¿ Feb 27, 2016 10:12

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Mr. Fortitude posted:

That's from Blood Money too, where you can call the Sheikh in the Vegas hotel and snipe him as he takes the call.

It's not. It's one of the china missions from the first game-probably the very first one. Watch the sign again-it switches between chinese symbols and the CASINO.

# ¿ Feb 27, 2016 11:24

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

TacticalUrbanHomo posted:

That scene, while not actually featured in the game itself, was a piece of concept art from Blood Money and a centrepiece in its marketing.

All of the kills from the trailer are in the order in which the games were released. The skyscrapers from the background are in Hong Kong. While it might be influenced by the marketing for Blood Money, it's a scene from Codename 47.

# ¿ Feb 28, 2016 00:46

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Right down to unmasking and having an open conversation about "the girl". God, that game blows...

# ¿ Mar 2, 2016 08:34

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

47 pretty much doesn't age anymore, probably. The targets from the first hitman game received clone-grown, genetically enhanced organs from Ort-meyer that gave them the near-superpowers they possessed in that game. 47 is a whole human being made out of such material.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Mar 2, 2016

# ¿ Mar 2, 2016 22:05

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Mr. Fortitude posted:

I don't remember anyone but Pablo having super powers and that is more due to him being completely high on cocaine that small arms fire do pretty much nothing to him. All the other targets die relatively easily.

It's in the backstory the game provides- some of their letters to Ort-meyer are demanding additional parts or the army he'd promised, but all of them have enhanced longevity. All of 47's targets in the original game are in their late 60s-early 70s.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2016 22:37

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Example of fun cut content- one of the black guards at the Requiem level is actually a Franchise assassin- he has a unique model, a tattoo, and unlike all other enemies there carries and will throw an explosive and a knife at you in the ensuing firefight. Another artifact from when the level could be stealthed.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Mar 4, 2016

# ¿ Mar 4, 2016 05:17

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

RPS has a detailed chat about the first episodes. Responses were mixed, and largely along the lines we already discussed- large-scale AI problems and some degree of forced linearity with Opportunities. The whole thing is worth a read, and there are no spoilers.

quote:

Graham:On the evidence of the beta, I�m cautiously optimistic about the full game � or at least the fullness of its first episode.

Adam: I�m less optimistic. I was hoping for greatness and can feel myself preparing to settle for something that�s more good than bad. That�d be enough though � for all my complaints, it still feels good to have another Hitman that is at least aiming to be a proper stealth game.

One thing Graham nails is the same issues I had with BM:

quote:

Playing this has made me start to re-consider Hitman: Blood Money. It�s my favourite Hitman game, because it is the best Hitman game, but it had some of these same problems. It was always a game that felt more like it was about selecting one of a number of optional but fixed paths rather than playing with AI. It always tolerated a lot of weirdness and kept guards within their prescribed zones. It simply never bothered me at the time. I�m trying to decide whether my greater suspicion about it this time is because they�re doing something different � in level design or elsewhere � or whether it�s because other games have come along and done some of these things in different or outright better ways.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2016 08:59

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Brazilianpeanutwar posted:

I was just pissing around on the "till death do us part" mission and accidentally stumbled into a giant atrium thing, holy poo poo.

The giant atrium was great and went almost wholly unused. It's chock full of guards, iirc- the only real possibility is I think you could snipe through the roof- but the body would be detected instantly.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2016 20:23

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Thread challenge: Come up with your own tone-deaf advertisement for [HITMAN]!

# ¿ Mar 6, 2016 11:26

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 12:31 on Mar 6, 2016

# ¿ Mar 6, 2016 12:15

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I am not proud of what I've done.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2016 12:27

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

TacticalUrbanHomo posted:

You don't. Fortunately you don't need to. I never actually saw any of those ads outside of people talking about how controversial they apparently were.

DING DING DING

# ¿ Mar 6, 2016 23:16

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I've realized something important.

This game is about a gun-toting artificially created supersoldier with an iconic black and red color scheme who betrays the source of his genetic material and who is morally grey in a series of increasingly edgy games that have suffered from hamhanded writing, staff turnover and an unclear vision of the core game dynamic.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Mar 7, 2016

# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 12:02

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

In four days, All Hail 47:

(I've figured out the shortcut to invert colors in ms paint and am now mad with power)

# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 12:27

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Brumaldo posted:

god why

Clera: "Find the computer room!"

also,

# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 12:44

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Moartoast posted:

I promise this thread will stop being about Sonic The Hedgehog analogues soon.

One last push! Apologies for the set of images.
Pointless inexplicable edgy personal "symbol": check.

Generic crazy scientist creator who betrays his employers: check.

Fighting off-brand knockoffs in a late-game twist: check.

Fixation on little girl as hackneyed character motivation: check.

Annoying pointlessly sexualized supporting characterthat should not exist: check.

A fanbase with really horrific taste: check.
Really bad linear levels set in old west canyons: check.

FutonForensic posted:

Sorry, I'm pretty sure that's going to be impossible when it's announced Mission 3 takes place in Spring Yard Zone

I'm personally just hoping for a Shadow mascot costume DLC. The costume is like the horrible chipmunk outfit from Absolution, but it constantly plays lines from the dark n' gritty time-traveling hedgehog as you try to sneak around. Alternately, a Crush 40 soundtrack.

Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Mar 7, 2016

# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 20:07

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Moartoast posted:

Also I feel blind as hell because the Agency logo has never looked like anything to me. I kinda like it as a clean icon on the desktop but I have no actual idea what it's supposed to be, if it's anything beyond "check out this neat thing our graphic designer made in their first week here". It's also worth noting that I am the actual factual worst at comprehending optical illusions or even just plain minimalist art.

afaik it has no meaning, beyond being ort-meyer's personal logo.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2016 20:55

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I was re-watching the E3 trailer and I noticed something...fantastic.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2016 09:24

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Watch the Showstopper briefing closely- a buncha BM-related nods and easter eggs there.

# ¿ Mar 11, 2016 11:46

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Are there any Hitman games where the ICA isn't being manipulated by the people that hire 47 and send him on missions?

Tatum Girlparts posted:

Did I just hit a bug? I'm doing the male model route and at the 'walk the catwalk' stage but I keep going through the catwalk and nothing's triggering. The guy at the stage said I was just in time and the target was doing his speech. I waited for him to finish, walked the catwalk, came back, and still have the objective.

You may have taken too long, in that you need to do it before the speech, or it may be tied to a different objective. I don't know- a lot of playerbase knowledge about the opportunities is still firming up, and the playerbase is small enough that the body of knowledge has a lot of gaps.

# ¿ Mar 11, 2016 20:14

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

gfanikf posted:

Steam seems to be filled with rage always

ftfy

# ¿ Mar 11, 2016 22:40

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

For everyone experiencing any kind of graphical or processing problem, check for a driver update.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2016 01:32

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

I'm looking forward to the extra-hard ISO-Compliant Professional mode, where health and safety has gone through each area in advance and corrected problems. "You really can't store rat poison in a food preparation area." "These long lines of waist-high stacks of equipment are a fire evacuation hazard." "This lighting rig needs a monitoring system and at least two failsafes."

# ¿ Mar 12, 2016 06:14

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Word is there's a crazy outfit that's basically challenge mode hidden somewhere in the map. It's presumably unlockable for contracts mode, too.

edit: ugh, like half the conversation on the hitman forum is that there isn't enough blood.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2016 11:27

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 07:19

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Fat Care-Bear posted:

I don't know, gore in video games ultimately acts as a feedback mechanism to show that you're doing damage. I don't think they get their dicks hard on it, they just want more visual feedback.

It's..they really are gore fetishists. Just below blood in postcount are requests for dismemberment.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2016 21:06

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