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Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

AceOfFlames posted:

I dont think I am a particularly good engineer tbh. And i cant flash my degree in case some skinhead notices I don’t speak dutch as well as a native and decides to beat me up.

Anyway, thanks for the reassurance.

If you're skin is white you'll be fine.

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Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer
Yep! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dejima

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Orange Devil posted:

Our politicians are reacting to plans of a student strike following the Belgian example by citing the law which makes education mandatory and skipping school illegal.

One of the biggest crybabies is the leader of the main Christian party, who in the last election was profiling himself with all kinds of idiotic plans to promote Dutchness, such as plans to make it mandatory for all students to visit parliament and the Rijksmuseum during their school career. Now the students are planning to come visit parliament on their own accord and he's throwing a fit. I estimate chances of riot police being deployed against this evil menace within 3 weeks as 50/50.

The absolute worst is seeing the scum broadcasting things like "she's just a kid, not an expert so why should we listen PS did you know she's autistic PSPS we heard she got depression sometimes makes u think" like :fuckoff:

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Bedshaped posted:

I tend to just automatically assume far-right supporters are old and uneducated. Whereas, it's not really the case in France, Austria, Finland.

I still have faith it's not the social policies winning young people over but rather the fact that they've co-opted economic policies from the left.

The far right is extremely aligned with wealth and power. One of the ways they use this is by adopting good PR.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

100YrsofAttitude posted:

I know very little about the Troubles, but it has only been 20 years. That's not nearly enough time for people not to pick up arms again.

I also don't know much, but recently read Milkman by Anna Burns and its portrayal of what happened to society and people's state of mind was chilling and made me even angrier at Brexit.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer
I usually ignore red texts but here it's starting to seem pretty appropriate.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Blut posted:

- For financial integration they demanded an opt out from the Euro for themselves, and legitimized a position outside the Euro for other EU members. And have refused to be involved in any subsequent financial integration like the Fiscal Compact or European Stability Mechanism.

Stopped clocks, etc.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

AceOfFlames posted:

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/02/forum-voor-democratie-does-back-a-nexit-party-leader-confirms/

gently caress gently caress gently caress, I thought this separatist nonsense was lowering post Brexit. If the EU collapses I might as well jump off a cliff.

With the way the Dutch government is set up (no first-past-the-post nonsense), the toxic Putin parties can do a lot less damage. Things just splinter, which causes its own issues but lead to stasis/deadlock more than crazy big decisions.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Orange Devil posted:

Nothing bad will come from providing France with cannon fodder to burn in African colonialist ventures.

They'll just do what the other governments do and buy more shares in Royal Dutch Shell.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

caps on caps on caps posted:

Yes, if you want to go to a reputable university in the EU that holds any international weight for academia, you can not do it for 300€ per month, because that means you are either in Paris, London, Milano/Rome, Madrid/Barcelona or Munich and somesuch.

This is not true in the Netherlands or Belgium, for what it's worth, and from my personal and friends' academic experience there's also plenty of opportunities throughout countries like Germany and the UK. It may be that in other countries the picture is different, but I think the attitude that academic excellence is strongly centralised is misled at best and a toxic self-reinforcing view at worst.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

steinrokkan posted:

When I went to he UK on Erasmus, the stipend covered all my expenses including a one person bedroom with an individual bathroom at one of the more upscale Uni halls, and I even had some cash left over on return.

Theoretical discussion only please, facts are useless.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer
First, the idea that only the top 20 universities are worth going to is bullshit. Second, using those rankings in the first place is also bullshit since they are mostly dickwaving nonsense that gives universities' marketing bureaus and management a stick to beat their researchers with.

I'm not even going to touch the rest of that post with its just - so explanation of individual success.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer
The level of ambition you describe is unhealthy both at a personal and an institutional level. It's not something one should demand of oneself or one's candidates. The fact that there's a few awful elitists out there does not affect the vast majority of people working in academia.

I have a pretty large academic network of happily employed people, several of whom are already tenured, who did not need to go to capital cities at any step along the way.

Acting like only the "top" x% of European universities is worth going to is just nonsense except perhaps to a small subset of wrongheaded people. In the Netherlands alone you have a bunch of universities like Eindhoven, Enschede, Wageningen and Groningen which all do great work and have pretty low cost of living compared to capital city costs.

Finally, this stupid tangent even only came up because you were trying to claim that Erasmus should enable anyone to go to capital cities, whereas I would argue that actually getting people to visit places outside of tourist deathtraps would be way more worthwhile. Cure some of that myopia.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

AceOfFlames posted:

Time for my regular question: should I think of an escape plan from the Netherlands?

If you're white, no.

Otherwise, where even would you go these days?

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer
Volkskrant is not left at all, it's a boomer paper.

It goes something like

Actually left - - - > (nrc, trouw) - > Volkskrant - > AD - - - - > telegraaf

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Lord Stimperor posted:

Imo De Correspondent is worth reading very often. It's appears very thoroughly researched and their articles come with lots of footnotes and direct links to source and reference material. But you need to either cough up or have someone share their stuff.

They have some good writers but the organisation as a whole is very white dudebro. I'm a member but am reconsidering. Especially Rutget Bregman is extremely irritating with his superficial just-so stories.

In the meantime I really like One world and Follow the Money for leftist perspective and fact-based investigative journalism respectively.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer
Also from my personal experience at least the vast majority of wealthy people has at least one company/foundation that they use to deduct VAT from their taxes again anyway, making it even more regressive.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

AceOfFlames posted:

How the gently caress is this legal? How the gently caress does a country go from zero to fash in less than a week and we are not even in a recession yet?

The idea that we started at zero is nonsense. Few countries were as accommodating to the Nazis.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Gort posted:

Who owns the newspapers in the Netherlands? Are you like the UK in that the largest ones are owned by foreign fascists?

The largest newspaper (De Telegraaf) is literally the one that published Nazi propaganda during WW2. They were officially banned for 30 years but this was unfortunately overturned a lot earlier. They also own and operate a bunch of Breitbart-lites, .

Again, the Netherland has more than enough native fascist to not require foreign imports or influence.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer
Just FYI, fishmech never gives up. Move on.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Sulla Faex posted:

I don't know if this is the right thread for voting advice, but I can't find the Dutch thread anymore. I did the bare minimum of research and Judith Sargentini from GroenLinks is currently my go-to candidate. Any skeletons in her closet, or is there someone with a more nuanced understanding of the election who can tell me where my vote might be better used?

It's here, op.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

V. Illych L. posted:

i know social democrats are worthless and all but have they really not managed to capitalise on "the government literally tried to criminally subvert the state in favour of foreign plutocrats"

We're living in the Weimar Republic.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Factor_VIII posted:

Yeah, I'm sure that that's exactly what every finance minister believes.

By the way, how do you propose addressing a 15.4% budget deficit for a country that can no longer borrow money? By printing money?

A sensible first step could be to forgive the debt whose interest is a massive part of that deficit, and/or don't destroy the country through austerity afterwards.

Also some actual financial market oversight preventing bullshit bonds and speculation /repackaging of toxic assets like Greek debt so the situation can't occur again.

Finally, split the euro so that the Southern economies can be freer to get their economies going again. The unified monetary union has been massively destructive even outside of the awful unelected ECB determining policy.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer
It's stunning to me that someone can look at what's happening in south EU and go 'look! improvement!'

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Honj Steak posted:

The EU is the longest cliffhanger in the history of dramatic writing.

Something something white cliffs of Dover

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

true.spoon posted:

Thanks, this was a good read! My only complaint is that David Davis gets off a bit too easy.

Yeah, the author clearly had to downplay some stuff in exchange for access to him, he's quoted more than anyone else. A questionable decision.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer
I just wish people paid as much attention to blocking their own fash though its easy to understand why the German ones get more attention

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

D. Ebdrup posted:

Neither does anyone else, according to several of my Dutch friends.

What's going on is the same as everywhere else: creeping fash co-opting centrists.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

I'm sure they will continue to white wash the history of the man though I don't think the Dutch can handle being literally Hitler's Germany in terms of destruction and death done to the Congolese people

Are you doing a bit or do you genuinely not know the difference between the Netherlands and Belgium?

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Dawncloack posted:

So the summit on the recovery fund is in the shits, right?

The austerity assholes seem to be winning, so yes.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Orange Devil posted:

Dutch prime minister is very smugly reporting that no agreement is in sight and no progress is being made.

Every year he's in office i discover that no, there are further new and exciting ways for me to hate him and all he stands for.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

V. Illych L. posted:

yeah he'd have to gently caress something seriously up domestically - this, too, providing a helpful external enemy to stand up to, is part of the EU's fundamental failure

The thing is he already did by delaying the lockdown irresponsibly and turning old people's homes into graveyards. poo poo just slides off him, largely due to complicit media.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Lord Stimperor posted:

This country was faced with killing off its old and immunocompromised and just shrugged its shoulders, never thinking about it again.

I guess every ten years or so you need a reminder that no, your government, state and society do not in the least care about anyone's fate and you can really only rely on yourself to keep you and your loved ones healthy.

I used to be proud of our forward-thinking approach to euthanasia. Now I'm a lot more cynical about the reasons behind it. Cheaper to kill off people when they're done.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

oliwan posted:

most of this has been systematically eroded during the last 12 years or so.

Try since the 70s. Basically the brief progressive period is the anomaly, not the fygm liberalism.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

oliwan posted:

I understand what you are trying to say here, but I mean abortion was legalized in the Netherlands in 1984, euthanasia in 2002, and it was the first country to fully legalize same-sex marriage in 2001.

"socially liberal, fiscally conservative" -- a recipe for progressiveness :rolleyes:

Osmosisch fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Jul 23, 2020

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

oliwan posted:

The point is that up until the early 2000s the Netherlands were still signing progressive bills into power. After that this completely changed, and besides eroding social security, which was already heavily underway, it is now also eroding progressive measures from that time.

All that's changed is that the mask has come back off. The erosion of things that actually gave people meaningful freedom, e.g. social security and housing, had already set in long before. The rest is just recognising the cultural winds and bending with them.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Kassad posted:

I'm baffled by the unspoken assumption that "working class" = white. Working class areas in cities are almost all mixed since the majority of immigrants are not wealthy so they get crammed in the same neighborhoods as the "native" working class. It's the middle and upper class that can afford to self-segregate.

It is admittedly different in the countryside but that's what, 20% of the population in most European countries? It can't be said to be representative of the overall working class.

This is a very harmful historical artifact. The only somewhat socialist party in the Netherlands was against work migrants which of course let off a lot of dog whistles and has hung onto representing basically only their shrinking white base, with predictable results. Sad.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Economics hasn't been a science for 150 years.

It's the reflected sound of underground spirits.

Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer
Somewhat tangential, but I think that pretending that increasing house prices are caused by a scarcity of habitable buildings rather than scarcity of houses that aren't being used as vessels for financial speculation and /or rent seeking is naive at best. There's simply so much money sloshing around in investment funds that it's constricting the options for normal people.

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Osmosisch
Sep 9, 2007

I shall make everyone look like me! Then when they trick each other, they will say "oh that Coyote, he is the smartest one, he can even trick the great Coyote."



Grimey Drawer

Haramstufe Rot posted:

I think the point I was arguing was so "academic" and overall so unimportant for socialist posters ITT that it essentially was meaningless or misunderstood as "lol socialism bad". At this point, I am just posting things I learned in my readings, just in case it's somehow interesting.

You see, I think my brain doesn't really work normally or particularly well, so leaving people puzzled with what I am saying because it makes zero sense is normal for me.
Don't worry!

Do I summarise it correctly as: "Since a major factor in the failing of the GDR's economy was the fact that it was already locked into some bad practices once people started trying to fix it, a good lesson would be to have a solid economic plan in place in case we ever do manage to have a socialist revolution, since otherwise the emerging society is doomed to fail" ?

I think people's objections to this largely boil down to "we could spend time/energy on that or on trying to make that revolution happen", implying that trying to come up with a foolproof plan will take so much time/energy that it's effectively delaying or even cancelling the revolution.

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