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mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Tampons might have been a luxury item before '73, and EU not allowing it to be re-classified is bullshit. Still, British women can be glad it's just 5% and not 20% like elsewhere.

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mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Greece was never a developed country. I know, I've been there. It's very nice and I enjoyed my time there but it was not nearly on the same level as western/northern Europe.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
So, any idea how the Dutch vote is going? As I understand it's non-binding, but a No would still be a mess that will surely make Putin very, very happy. Maybe the best option of nobody shows up so that it's not considered valid?

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Pluskut Tukker posted:

Turnout in the bigger cities was around 12% by 2 pm, though lower than that in Amsterdam. Turnout needs to reach 30% for the referendum to be valid, so whether that will be reached is a crap shoot at this point. I suppose the best thing would be if that goal wasn't met (I'm still going to vote though), since the 'No'-vote has consistently led in the polls over the last few months, and very little of that is based on factual and reasoned arguments about the advantages and disadvantages of the association treaty ). If the government were to adopt a 'No' on the basis of the referendum it's going to be another diplomatic disaster for the Netherlands.
Interesting, there could've easily been as many people going to vote after work, which would put it very close to 30%. Or maybe everyone who wanted to vote already did. Apparently there are no results yet as far as I can tell, but there's this: "59% of eligible Dutch voters in Tokyo support treaty while 41% were against" which is nice but probably poorly representative of the home population, but who knows.

I can totally imagine the people and their reasons for voting No and the clusterfuck that could result from it, though, so hopefully it won't come to that one way or another.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Charlie Mopps posted:

Adjusted to 32% +- 3% so the 30% will probably just be reached.

"Turnout was low, 32.2%, but above the 30% threshold for the vote to be valid. The deal was rejected by 61.1% of votes, compared with 38.1% in favour."

Fuuuck. So the exact opposite ratio as the Tokyo poll, unsurprisingly. Well at least it's not binding so it probably won't torpedo the agreement, but still. Why are the Dutch so mad at EU anyway?

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

My Imaginary GF posted:

I don't see why Greece isn't utilizing the migrant crisis as a strategy for economic growth paired with appropriate structural reform.

The migrants aren't stupid, they want nothing to do with Greece.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

computer parts posted:

Kinda hard to do in Germany.

That doesn't seem to stop them though.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Does anyone know what's the status of the Ukraine visa agreement? All I can find is months old and no indication where it is in the pipeline.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
What's amazing is how difficult they made it read the map!

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

GaussianCopula posted:

Britain would be able to trade with EU-member the same as the US is doing right now, but the products would still have to be in line with EU regulations, which Britain would no longer be able to influence. More importantly though the ability to export services would be severely limited.

Are all the London financial people flipping out over this yet?

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
FWIW, a recent poll in the Czech Republic and leave won 53/47, although it was hardly very representative online poll so who the gently caress knows. Still, the more detailed breakdowns were similar to what we've see elsewhere - it's mainly the backwood hicks and olds trying to ruin everything. Somewhat surprisingly, the most/least favorite things between the two groups are very similar: free movement of people and goods is a plus, and everyone is mad about CAP, for example, so it's mostly down to priorities. Still, the country benefits from billions of Euros of additional income so they don't even have that excuse.

http://zpravy.idnes.cz/podrobne-vysledky-ankety-o-czexitu-d6u-/domaci.aspx?c=A160621_152249_domaci_jw

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Private Speech posted:

Judging by that link it was a poll of readers though, which is a little different from what most people think of when they hear an "online poll"

Yes, but is there a different kind though? I thought they were all garbage anyway. After actually reading it, it also says that their results are about 10pp off in the opposite direction vs properly designed phone polls by other agencies.

YF-23 posted:

We can say Czechia as of April, we don't have to say Czech Republic.
Yeah I know, I just don't like it, seems like aping Slovakia at this point. :colbert:

The_Franz posted:

How much overlap do these demographics have with the ostalgia crowd who convinced themselves that the secret police, purges and lines for everything weren't so bad as long as they couldn't be fired for showing up to work drunk?
Quite a bit, I suspect. But really, what more do you need from life than 2kc beer and 0.3kc buns!

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Also keep in mind also that a) not all refugees are Syrian, and b) having a degree isn't the same thing as having an education useful in a western country.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

TheDeadlyShoe posted:

@Troika: In the UK, there were 925 million hours worked per week five years ago. Today, there are 996 million hours worked per week - a 7.6% increase. How do you reconcile this sort of increase in work done with the notion that automation has made job creation obsolete? Automation of tasks is a perplexing problem for nations to face going forward, but there is no evidence that it is responsible for the employment troubles of refugees. Inability to integrate seems far more likely.
I'm certainly not one of the luddites who's afraid that robots are taking our jerbs but you only need to go to a developing country to see crowds of people doing basic manual work that nobody in the developed world does any more. We don't have a dozen people with shovels digging trenches here, it's one guy in a backhoe.

As you point out, there are other jobs available in the economy (like backhoe manufacturing), but the low-skilled ones, like the ones suitable for an under-educated refugee, are more limited. Also due to lack of language skills, they'd have a hard time in the service sector, which is a problem given the structure of our economies.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Libluini posted:

They win because Germany is on their side

More like because they don't have broomsticks instead of rifles and machineguns.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Well what do you expect when you let the Jew bankers run their country into the ground :shrug:

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

YF-23 posted:

Narva, the third largest Estonian city, sitting right on the Russian border, is >80% ethnically Russian. I don't think Russia's gonna make a move against NATO unless circumstances change severely, but were it not for that a country like Estonia could've had its own Crimea/Donbass.
I was looking at Latvia to make that point but Narva is a good example. I don't think anyone expects to see tanks rolling over the border, but a Ukraine situation is not impossible IMO. Just stir some poo poo up over nazis or language or whatever and have some green men pop up in the city. NATO or not, I don't think anyone would be particularly eager to send in the marines to shoot russians and we'll hear all the same poo poo about WWIII and nuclear armageddon as a reason to not do anything.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Nyarlothotep posted:

Just because it's objectively cheaper won't mean the 'fiscally responsible' right won't be vehemently against it.

I actually doubt that the premise is really true in any way, so I'd be curious to see some sources on this.

doverhog posted:

Not really, because it is ultimately more expensive to have homeless starving people disrupting society than it is to provide them with food and housing.

However, it's even cheaper not to let in millions of completely broke and barely literate migrants in the first place.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Cerebral Bore posted:

No, it's not because they could have gotten on the first plane out of Syria with their EU passports.

Why didn't they do that, then?

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Volkerball posted:

Rammstein are cool and good and not nazis, thanks and god bless.

It's cool, they're just taking back goose stepping.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

AceOfFlames posted:

Serious question. I am Portuguese and am currently working in the Netherlands. I really don't want to go back home since I cannot possibly live making a third of what I am making right now (medical bills) and I work in biomed, which has very little employment in Portugal. Yet I am worried about the potential rise of fascism in Europe. What should I do?

Move to Russia. No fascism there.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Kurtofan posted:

thank u

anyone of you is allowed to shoot me in my hospital bed

I'd be happy to help but unfortunately the EU is trying to take away mu guns!

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
^^^
:drat:

steinrokkan posted:

The Czech Republic.

Luckily, it's not like any refugees want to come here in the first place unless it's on the way to Berlin.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy


Germany migrants: Residents battle asylum seekers in Bautzen

quote:

Residents have clashed with asylum seekers in a town in eastern Germany that has become a flashpoint for anti-refugee sentiment.

Some 80 men and women, many described as far-right, fought with 20 migrants and refugees in Bautzen.

The asylum seekers were chased to their hostel and put under police guard.

Anti-migrant tensions have been mounting in Bautzen this year. Locals cheered when a building due to house migrants was set on fire in February.

The following month, President Joachim Gauck was verbally abused when he visited Bautzen to discuss the influx of refugees in Germany.

Bautzen and the nearby town of Niedergurig are home to four asylum shelters.

Bautzen is 60km (38 miles) east of Dresden, where the "anti-Islamisation" Pegida movement began.

Since the arrival last year of 1.1 million irregular migrants and refugees in Germany, some areas, particularly eastern states, have seen a rise in anti-migrant violence as well as support for the anti-Islam AfD party.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37372029
C'mon guys that's not even a fair fight :mad:

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Being propaganda doesn't necessarily mean it's false. No doubt it's spun to suit RT's agenda, but there's some clear footage of mobs attacking trucks with rocks and sticks. Unless they faked the videos/gps logs way better than the Ukrainian stuff, seems pretty legit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPFTAHXnO04&t=35s

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.936938,1.9561238,3a,75y,283.93h,80.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGssty0w0I_GLSMDxH-8Xsg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Sep 18, 2016

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

steinrokkan posted:

I don't think the idea behind refugees is to make them contribute to some national problem solving.
It's to keep them from getting killed for as long as is necessary.

Certainly, but a lot of people will try to use that as one of the key arguments, which is at the very least rather dishonest.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Norway also has state-owned booze monopoly, so it really shouldn't be considered a good example of anything, including shutting down on Sunday.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

His Divine Shadow posted:

Hitler was right?

He just wasn't able to... finalize his solution.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Cat Mattress posted:

The argument for ISDS is basically, "what if tomorrow Germany elects Chavez and they nationalize everything, won't that drive away foreign investors?" and so it basically assumes that EU countries are third-world dictatorships. It's just adding insult to injury.
On the other hand: Poland

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Friendly Humour posted:

I can't wait for the apocalypse, it's gonna be rad.

Hey, whatever, as long as it's not red.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

steinrokkan posted:

Yeah, I don't know how scrapping neoliberalism would have helped with the refugee crisis.

Europe would be so poor and hosed up that no refugees would want to come here

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
America already beat them to it. Number one , as always!

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
I already got mad at the swamp germans back when they did the stupid referendum. But if I'm reading the new announcement correctly, it doesn't seem to actually do anything in practice, since the whole idea in the first place was only an association agreement, some free trade, and visa-free access to the Schengen area.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Belgium isn't even a real country so it's not in the same category to begin with

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Freezer posted:

The same logic that terrorists use when they blow up a western embassy or government target. Nice.

Well he's a dirty imperialist pig so...

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
Riga is pretty

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
^^^
You can already stab any aspiring terrorists so it seems to be working at keeping them away!

Private Speech posted:

...

e: Also Czech Republic has (well had in a February survey that pops up first when googling "Czech Republic unemployment") literally the lowest rate of unemployment in the EU, at 4.5%. It's not hard to find work there, even the wages aren't that bad given the cost of living.

Yep, it's definitely not bad at all with middle class+ income. Still, you could easily triple your salary by going across the border to Germany and probably the UK. Despite the higher cost of living, this translates into a huge difference of disposable income and standards of living.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Thanks, this way more interesting than another Greeks :argh: vs Neoliberals :argh: slapfight.

Could you link something more detailed about the Salesforce stuff? I only did undergrad econ stuff but this would be right up my alley.

mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Raspberry Jam It In Me posted:

Americans didn't set buses on fire and Trump still won. Maybe it's time to try something new?

Yeah and maybe we'd all be marching into ovens right now if they did, who knows :iiam:

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mobby_6kl
Aug 9, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Truga posted:

The whole VW story is totally hosed. They sold 3 diesel cars in US and they're getting owned for $15b, but in europe they sell millions, pretty much directly killing a ton of people that would've survived if VW didn't cheat and there's no fine at all. :cripes:
Most of those people would'v also voluntarily bought diesels, so really in the long run they VW did us a favor.

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