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In the finance/accounting world, my business school peers who went to work at startups or small businesses used it for rapid title acquisition. Now they have SVP or CFO titles on the resume and are moving into larger companies.
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Mar 28, 2024 20:57
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broken pixel posted:I mean, poo poo, the reality is I wanted to bail at 3 years on the previous company, but the structure of the startup shifted too much to accommodate things like “design.” I’d much rather end up in the middle of a large corporate mass in the long run, but now I’m stuck at 2 years experience, just under expectations for most large company roles. Not like that’s stopped me from applying to 3+ years experience jobs, but still. lol you shouldnt feel bad about applying to 3 YOE req's with 0-1 YOE job req's are wish lists, not a pass/fail bar. if you meet literally all of them, you're likely applying below your level
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Mar 28, 2024 22:08
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when i think "good startups" i think of something like this:  Democratic Pirate posted:In the finance/accounting world, my business school peers who went to work at startups or small businesses used it for rapid title acquisition. Now they have SVP or CFO titles on the resume and are moving into larger companies. do titles really still matter? at least in my field it's never stopped me from making more money (which again is the only thing i actually care about!). i have a lot of friends who have indeed grinded hard on their titles but it doesn't seem to make any real big difference?
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Mar 29, 2024 03:31
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Work From Home policy: Two days of WFH per week permitted. You must be in the office the other five.
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Mar 29, 2024 03:36
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I am annoyed at myself for not pushing back on the offer I got for my promotion. But also I have no leverage because there's no way I'm leaving this organization. I'm very happy at my job and with my team and with my work, I just wish they had just accepted what I said I wanted for the position which was very reasonable and instead they offered me $100 per year less which just makes it feel like a power play (I asked for 100k, got offered 99,900 - COME ON) But I started at this org in 2018 making 45k so I'm proud of my progress.
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Mar 29, 2024 04:34
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AnonymousNarcotics posted:I am annoyed at myself for not pushing back on the offer I got for my promotion. But also I have no leverage because there's no way I'm leaving this organization. I'm very happy at my job and with my team and with my work, I just wish they had just accepted what I said I wanted for the position which was very reasonable and instead they offered me $100 per year less which just makes it feel like a power play (I asked for 100k, got offered 99,900 - COME ON) That really does sound like someone was being petty
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Mar 29, 2024 04:48
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AnonymousNarcotics posted:(I asked for 100k, got offered 99,900 - COME ON) "i won! i won!", the hollow husk of an HR employee says to himself in his bath, crying
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Mar 29, 2024 08:34
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Steal a hundo worth of pens and call it even.
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Mar 29, 2024 10:54
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Chaotic Flame posted:That really does sound like someone was being petty Or there’s some dumb metric tracked like “people who make six figgies+”
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Mar 29, 2024 11:16
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Or there’s some dumb metric tracked like “people who make six figgies+” I'd guess it was this. Or people making $100k+ get put into a bonus pool or something.
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Mar 29, 2024 13:34
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OP should just look for a new role. I'd be surprised if they couldnt find 20-30% more if their current place is quibbling over $100.
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Mar 29, 2024 13:49
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leper khan posted:OP should just look for a new role. I'd be surprised if they couldnt find 20-30% more if their current place is quibbling over $100. quote:I'm very happy at my job and with my team and with my work, meh
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Mar 29, 2024 14:49
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Spikes32 posted:They can also present an opportunity to jump roles or levels that a large public company won't. That worked out for me, but it was a gamble for sure. I know I'm a little late to this subject, but to me this is the lone benefit of working at a startup. I worked at a startup from 2011-2013 as a manufacturing technician (very early on- I was like the 33rd employee or something) and well... it sucked because the hours were long and the pay was just okay (but that pay was *significantly* higher than the previous job I had). In 2013 I was able to convince them to move me over to technical writing and was a technical writer there until the company went bankrupt in 2017. All of that on its own was a busy, annoying, underpaid process, but in the end, it put me on a job path to become a Senior Technical Writer at a major international company, making six figures by 2020. Had I not worked there, I probably wouldn't have gotten my foot in the door as a technical writer until years later (if at all) because I had no prior experience beyond an English degree. But, I caution- that was only a good situation for me as an entry-level worker. Now that I'm established as a technical writer, I would never even consider working for a startup again unless they offered me an *outrageous* salary, which is extremely unlikely. TL;DR- startups can be beneficial if you're new(ish) to your career because they're often more willing to take risks with promotions/role changes than other companies. They're almost never more beneficial in compensation, so if you already have an established career, I'd avoid them at all costs.
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Mar 29, 2024 14:52
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look, 33rd employee sounds late to me, honest to god, lol
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Mar 29, 2024 14:55
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Just got an offer that's pretty low but I'm expecting to move up pretty quick. My BATNA is pretty bad, as I've been carving into savings for a while so I needed any job really, and I have nothing else lined up at the moment. I'm nervous as hell to negotiate because my gut just says to take it, as I've been looking for 10 months for anything. Should I just ask for more vacation days or something like that?
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Apr 3, 2024 23:25
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No, you should ask for more money. Your gut is traitorous and lying to you.
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Apr 4, 2024 00:11
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Eric the Mauve posted:No, you should ask for more money. Your gut is trying to keep you safe from a perceived threat because you have an irrational fear of losing the offer if you negotiate. Tell your gut to shove it, and jump bitch!! You can do it!!
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Apr 4, 2024 00:55
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I asked for $22k more and I "only" got $2k more and some more PTO. You should do the same they won't pull the offer. And in the incredibly small chance they do you are absolutely better off continuing your job search than working for a poo poo company.
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Apr 4, 2024 01:13
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Mind_Taker posted:I asked for $22k more and I "only" got $2k more and some more PTO.  no but seriously, do it
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Apr 4, 2024 01:57
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You should absolutely ask for more. But you know, actually ask. "Is there any way you guys have room to bump me up a bit?" That's all you need to say. If the answer is no then at least you tried, if it's yes then gently caress yeah more money
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Apr 4, 2024 03:22
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Alternatively, pick a number that you're comfortable with, add 10%, and say the Business Professional equivalent of "If you can do $x, I am prepared to open-palm-slam the Sign Now button with zero delay and start immediately. Looking forward to hearing back!" If they offer your ask, hammer it. If they offer less, ask for time to think about it and see if you can't squeeze in a bit more [perks] on a second negotiation round.
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Apr 4, 2024 03:45
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I took my first startup job because it was based in silicon valley, and I was able to use it as an opportunity to move out of Dallas; it literally doubled my pay overnight. I got to put a lot of cool stuff on my resume, and worked with bleeding edge software, plus we were actually building something from scratch which is way more interesting than maintaining boring 10+ yo software and merely keeping the lights on With a wife, kid and house, are startups right for me? Probably not but occasionally I'll field a call from a founder. They're a great option if you're in your late 20s and renting though
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Apr 4, 2024 05:11
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Hotel Kpro posted:You should absolutely ask for more. But you know, actually ask. "Is there any way you guys have room to bump me up a bit?" That's all you need to say. If the answer is no then at least you tried, if it's yes then gently caress yeah more money Don’t do this, it’s inviting a no. Do what Zarin said.
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Apr 4, 2024 13:30
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don't be subby in negotiations, ever. pretend to have confidence even if you lack it speaking from experience; i am naturally meek and stuff but you're just asking to be stepped on if you do that when negotiating anything
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Apr 4, 2024 13:34
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"I'd be happy to sign at $x with a start date of Y. Regards, -LK"
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Apr 4, 2024 13:35
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The big thing is to be specific and concise when asking for more money (or anything.) If you say "Can I have more money please?" that's inviting a no, because it's easier to say no than to check if you can have more money. If you say "I will immediately accept if the salary is $X" then check if that salary works for the company is easier on whoever you're contacting than going to the second choice (who may or may not still want the job) or worse, reopening the job. Saying something like "I need $X because of a reason" is inviting the other party to offer solutions that are not $X but still respond to your reason. It's basically the opposite of improv. You don't want to create a world of possibilities through yes-and, you want to limit their actions to ones you want while strongly pushing them to your preferred result.
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Apr 4, 2024 14:08
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“I’m excited about Company’s mission, and optimistic about its future performance in the industry. I want to ensure my goals are aligned with the Company’s. If you can see your way to a total salary / extra stock grant / bonus percentage of $X%, I’m ready to sign an offer with start date Y.” That’s the exact wording I used - in my case I was asking only for more stock, hence the wording about aligning goals (reading between the lines, I’m just saying “I want a bigger reward when the company stock goes up”). They sent the updated offer letter without even replying to my email lol. Don’t be passive. Don’t be vague. Be assertive, confident, and specific. As others have said, doing these things will actually boost your image and the value the hiring people will assign to you mentally. The more you get paid, the better your manager will feel about having you on the team (assuming you perform adequately, and even then sometimes that doesn’t matter much) because you must be a great asset if you’re paid well. This post is possibly the gold standard on salary negotiation - both the mechanics and the psychology. Especially valuable is the fundamental differences between your psychology and the hiring person(s)’. For you, it’s your life and livelihood. For them, it’s another Tuesday. For you it’s your income. For them it’s a line item among thousands. Read it. https://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ Good old Methanar taught me a lot of what I know about this industry, crazy son of a bitch that he is madmatt112 fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Apr 4, 2024 |
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Apr 4, 2024 14:18
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I'll continue to nitpick and say that "can see your way to" is indirect and detracts from your overall excellent example message. Good negotiators ask for what they want and they do not qualify it.
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Apr 4, 2024 14:29
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Good negotiators ask for what they want and they do not qualify it. Gonna nitpick your nitpick: Good negotiators don't really ask for what they want. They tell the other party "I can do this deal for $X."
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Apr 4, 2024 14:39
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:I'll continue to nitpick and say that "can see your way to" is indirect and detracts from your overall excellent example message. Good negotiators ask for what they want and they do not qualify it. I’ll respectfully disagree that it’s indirect. It’s very direct and specific, and more specifically it’s used to set up the “if, then” structure of “if you give me X, then I give you a signature” that is meant to… “discourage” thinking that they have other options. Herd them toward your chosen outcome. If they’re going to say no and/or send a counter-offer, they’re most likely gonna do it regardless of your wording (if they’re good at their job).
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Apr 4, 2024 15:23
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Eric the Mauve posted:Gonna nitpick your nitpick: Good negotiators don't really ask for what they want. They tell the other party "I can do this deal for $X." True!
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Apr 4, 2024 15:37
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madmatt112 posted:I’ll respectfully disagree that it’s indirect. It’s very direct and specific, and more specifically it’s used to set up the “if, then” structure of “if you give me X, then I give you a signature” that is meant to… “discourage” thinking that they have other options. Herd them toward your chosen outcome. most HR people suck poo poo at their job OP The opposite structure works better: You get the good outcome you want (me signing right now) and in order to get that good outcome you give me X.
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Apr 4, 2024 15:40
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:most HR people suck poo poo at their job OP 100% true in my experience  KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:
lol I can’t figure out how our two structures are different! I thought I was saying “if you give me what I want, you’ll get what you want”, which is how I’m reading yours as well. Either we’re doing that thing where two people are arguing/disagreeing over something but actually agreeing without realizing it Or I’m dumb as bricks and my reading comprehension is bad. I’m willing to accept either or both 
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Apr 4, 2024 15:58
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madmatt112 posted:100% true in my experience it's purely semantics at this point and I'm not sure how much it matters, but you're structuring it as "Give me what I want, and in return I will give you what you want" and I prefer "I will give you want you want, and in return you will give me what I want" Lead with the thing they want and anchor them to that. But it's mostly the second one at this point.
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Apr 4, 2024 16:02
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:it's purely semantics at this point and I'm not sure how much it matters, but you're structuring it as "Give me what I want, and in return I will give you what you want" and I prefer "I will give you want you want, and in return you will give me what I want" Lead with the thing they want and anchor them to that. Ahh, okay I see. Well explained, thanks. Yours is a compelling argument
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Apr 4, 2024 16:12
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:it's purely semantics at this point and I'm not sure how much it matters, but you're structuring it as "Give me what I want, and in return I will give you what you want" and I prefer "I will give you want you want, and in return you will give me what I want" Lead with the thing they want and anchor them to that. 
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Apr 4, 2024 17:33
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:most HR people suck poo poo at their job OP Strong thread title material
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Apr 5, 2024 00:13
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Blurb3947 posted:Just got an offer that's pretty low but I'm expecting to move up pretty quick. My BATNA is pretty bad, as I've been carving into savings for a while so I needed any job really, and I have nothing else lined up at the moment. I'm nervous as hell to negotiate because my gut just says to take it, as I've been looking for 10 months for anything. Should I just ask for more vacation days or something like that? Was offered 45k, countered with 53k + more PTO, they countered with the money but no extra PTO. Accepted. Thanks thread for the help, it's not much but an extra 8k will be a huge help for my expenses.
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Apr 5, 2024 20:22
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its like, 18%, that's pretty solid!
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Apr 5, 2024 20:47
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Blurb3947 posted:Was offered 45k, countered with 53k + more PTO, they countered with the money but no extra PTO. Accepted. A win is a win! Enjoy that extra 8K
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Apr 5, 2024 21:02
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