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Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 17 days!


Oh the Blob is a good one for form rebel, I wish I had included that.

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Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.


Sign me up as Size Purist Form Rebel.

Sorry, Pigmon.

Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon


Nap Ghost

I may be radical kaiju anarchy

Edit: how do we classify the Angels in Neon Genesis Evangelion?

Gatts fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Feb 28, 2021

Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


Gatts posted:

I may be radical kaiju anarchy

Edit: how do we classify the Angels in Neon Genesis Evangelion?

Those are just kaiju in the Ultraman/UltraSeven style

PriorMarcus
Oct 16, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY


Burkion posted:

Beast is pretty much only good for the effects and nothing more. The short story is also one of the best kaiju prose anything in history, for the record. That thing *captures* what it means to be a kaiju story

Are there any good kaiju novels?

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN


I find that kaiju status is more contextual. A regular T-Rex is not a kaiju, but the T-Rex in Jurassic Park is a kaiju specifically because she brutalizes a smaller SUV. A kaiju can be any size, but must be giant in relation to something.

So, with the T-Rex, you have disparity of scale (since most animals can't flip an SUV), plus the crucial element of monstrosity (since a T-Rex shouldn't be alive in the early 1990s and definitely shouldn't be running loose on the streets).

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008





Any person taller than 6'11 is a kaiju.

Gatts
Jan 2, 2001

Goodnight Moon


Nap Ghost

Vince MechMahon posted:

Any person taller than 6'11 is a kaiju.

Well....I mean...that may explain Shaq

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012


Gatts posted:

I may be radical kaiju anarchy

Edit: how do we classify the Angels in Neon Genesis Evangelion?

early ones kaiju, later ones cosmic horrors

personally for me kaiju should be relatively unaware of the humans around them, so the first few angels stomping aound tokyo and fighting giant robots clearly are kaiju, but the later ones that invades the computer or infects asukas mind is too personal to still be a kaiju

mandatory lesbian fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Feb 28, 2021

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

Don't Blink


SuperMechagodzilla posted:

a T-Rex shouldn't be alive in the early 1990s and definitely shouldn't be running loose on the streets

whoa now, let's not say things we can't take back

Happy Noodle Boy
Jul 3, 2002



It wasn’t until that image but Christine absolutely is a Kaiju

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

SEXY... defines my posts and my ride


Well a T-Rex definitely shouldn't be hanging out with Whoopi Goldberg

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018

ASK ME ABOUT MY
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mandatory lesbian posted:

early ones kaiju, later ones cosmic horrors

personally for me kaiju should be relatively unaware of the humans around them, so the first few angels stomping aound tokyo and fighting giant robots clearly are kaiju, but the later ones that invades the computer or infects asukas mind is too personal to still be a kaiju

Are you suggesting that something can't be both a kaiju and a cosmic horror?

Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018

ASK ME ABOUT MY
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alternatively,


Burkion
May 10, 2012

Changeman! And Not A Moment Too Soon!


All Angels fit perfectly fine with Ultraman kaiju. Like I said.

Ultraman starts with Godzilla as the basic kaiju and goes from there.

Sobatchja Morda
Sep 21, 2009


Speaking of untraditional kaiju, one element that a lot of the classics share is how they use their monsters to confront a traumatic memory or narrative. Godzilla is the most famous example, but there are more of them. Take this plot, for example, and try to guess which giant monster film I'm describing:

A local community's peace is disturbed when some strange creature wanders in. Nobody knows where it came from or where it's going, but it's a scary thing - a monster born out of a terrible event that everybody would rather just forget. Local authorities respond with violence to the situation, thinking they can deny the past, but all it does is hurt and provoke the monster. It goes on a rampage, coming in from the wild towards the nearest city, and nobody proves capable of stopping it. Their toughest men cannot do a single thing as this strange beast burns through the town, surrounded by fire and wrecking buildings. It only ends when they get the beast cornered, almost by accident, and those involved finally realize that they must face the past head on to make peace with it and learn from it. They send out a man who feels a personal connection with the monster, someone who is willing to sacrifice himself if necessary. Only then is the beast calmed and can normal life resume.

Is it Godzilla? War of the Worlds? Psych, it's kaiju-Stallone in First Blood.

mandatory lesbian
Dec 18, 2012


Gripweed posted:

Are you suggesting that something can't be both a kaiju and a cosmic horror?



no but i think the two angels im talking about arent kaiju and can only really see cosmic horror as fitting what i see them as

you are free to disagree

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN

I have no idea how Kong is going to survive that fight on the ocean. I get that they probably wanted to mix up the battles where one Kaiju has a home field edge over the other. But the ocean?

Also, somebody has gotta train these jet pilots better. Whoever told them "strafe them at point blank range, they probably won't swipe/tail slap/chomp you out of the sky" needs to get fired.

Vinylshadow
Mar 20, 2017


Panfilo posted:

I have no idea how Kong is going to survive that fight on the ocean. I get that they probably wanted to mix up the battles where one Kaiju has a home field edge over the other. But the ocean?

Also, somebody has gotta train these jet pilots better. Whoever told them "strafe them at point blank range, they probably won't swipe/tail slap/chomp you out of the sky" needs to get fired.

Isn't it basically tradition that godzilla/godzilla-adjacent movies have a "Military Being Useless" sequence where their strategies do zilch and then they get blown up and everyone goes "welp, we tried that approach, time for the experts to handle things"

If they're hurting for runtime, they may even get more than one sequence

Chronojam
Feb 20, 2006

This is me on vacation in Amsterdam :)
Never be afraid of being yourself!




Classical Kaiju must imperil a train of some sort at some point. Godzilla 14 got this correct for its monsters.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



Whoa, Gamera 3 really perfected his design. The first two are rad and all, but 30 minutes in this is blowing everything before out of the water.

Vince MechMahon
Jan 1, 2008





It's only a kaiju if I wanna gently caress it. Godzilla? Kaiju. King Kong? Kaiju. Heddorah? Oh yeah, kaiju. Mothra? Not a kaiju.

feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



Exactly. I want to love, respect, and cherish Mothra. She's marriage material.

Dignity Van Houten
Jul 28, 2006

abcdefghijk
ELLAMENNO-P


Gripweed posted:

Are you suggesting that something can't be both a kaiju and a cosmic horror?



*tickle tickle tickle tickle tickle tickle*

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010
Probation
Can't post for 17 days!


After thinking about it while at work, I retract my previous statement and say the Blob is definitely in the lefthand column, size pending. Monster here doesn't mean "scary", but rather an unnatural creature. You see a Blob movie, you call it a monster movie. The 50 FT Woman is not monstrous outside of her unusual size. A movie about a regular woman wouldn't be called a monster film, unless you count The Iron Lady (har har).

GATOS Y VATOS
Aug 22, 2002





Vince MechMahon posted:

Any person taller than 6'11 is a kaiju.

That's a kaijin, not a kaiju.

Matango is an example of another kaijin.

A T-Rex isn't a kaiju because we know too much about them. Kaiju are, by literal definition, "mysterious beasts".

Size doesn't seem to matter too much though. Kanegon is considered a kaiju, even though he has human origins (why he isn't considered a kaijin is a mystery). But once they reach a really big size, then they become daikaiju (big or giant kaiju).

One of my favorite places to hang out in Nakano is the DaiKaiju Salon. It's fun!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fxGfDCoECs

GATOS Y VATOS
Aug 22, 2002





Happy Noodle Boy posted:

It wasn’t until that image but Christine absolutely is a Kaiju

Christine is a Tsukumogami- a "tool kami". An old object that has become embodied by a spirit.

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

If you see me in the COVID thread, ignore me.

I photoshop charts to fit my narrative. I happily cherry-pick only the worst information to share and, lacking that, just make up lies.


Since we're delving into the history of the genre, here's a 1921 kaiju film: Dreams of the Rarebit Fiend: The Pet
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s39jimMyAFI


Panfilo posted:

I have no idea how Kong is going to survive that fight on the ocean. I get that they probably wanted to mix up the battles where one Kaiju has a home field edge over the other. But the ocean?

Yeah they shoulda gone with a Marine Kong if they wanted an ocean fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHc1nKj4YN4

Snowglobe of Doom
Mar 30, 2012

If you see me in the COVID thread, ignore me.

I photoshop charts to fit my narrative. I happily cherry-pick only the worst information to share and, lacking that, just make up lies.


Here's a new TV spot that shows that the new film recreates a certain iconic scene from the 1962 King Kong vs Godzilla film. Linked because the thumbnail shows the scene, in case anyone is in a media blackout:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT2YMTNlHfw&ab_channel=Gojira675

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

Well, of course I know him.
He's me.


Oh hell yes

please dear kaiju gods let him tumble down a mountain rear end over teacups straight into godzilla

massive spider
Dec 6, 2006



GATOS Y VATOS posted:



A T-Rex isn't a kaiju because we know too much about them. Kaiju are, by literal definition, "mysterious beasts".


Not that much? We make guesses because we've found the bones but theres always debate about whether it hunted or scavenged, how much fat it had, feathers etc. Pretty mysterous.

McSpanky
Jan 16, 2005








GATOS Y VATOS posted:

That's a kaijin, not a kaiju.

Go ahead and tell me with a straight face that Andre the Giant wasn't a kaiju

Drakyn
Dec 26, 2012



massive spider posted:

Not that much? We make guesses because we've found the bones but theres always debate about whether it hunted or scavenged, how much fat it had, feathers etc. Pretty mysterous.
I absolutely agree with you on the inherent trickiness of reconstructing extinct animals (and the back and forth on feathers on Tyrannosaurus specifically is a great example of working carefully with limited evidence that keeps changing), but for sheer pedantry I feel obliged to say that the hunter/scavenger thing was mostly just Jack Horner loving with the media and relatively few other paleontologists agreed with him on it, or even thought that there was a real debate to be had on the subject. Quick version:
-There are very, very, very few large tetrapods that actually do nothing but scavenge. Like, the list might just be 'vultures, some of them.' Most carnivores won't pass up a free meal, and very few carnivores pass up a good opportunity to turn something INTO a meal. Setting up a harsh dichotomy between the two isn't very reasonable.
-Vultures have a very specific thing that lets them work, which are that they're incredibly efficient soarers and can survey and cover huge distances in search of carrion very very efficiently and relatively quickly. Tyrannosaurus, although it's got beautiful long runner legs for a theropod its size, does not share this advantage. It's hard to be both fast and energetically efficient while chasing cadavers when you're forty feet long and fifteen feet tall.
-Also there are a fair number of fossils of dinosaurs contemporary with T. rex that have partially-healed bite marks from T. rex teeth in them. So clearly they had no problems biting things that weren't dead yet.

SuperMechagodzilla
Jun 9, 2007

NEWT REBORN


GATOS Y VATOS posted:

A T-Rex isn't a kaiju because we know too much about them. Kaiju are, by literal definition, "mysterious beasts".

I don’t know about that; there are so many kaiju movies where they’re like “oh yeah, that’s a mutant Godzillasaurus from this exact time time and location. Here’s an artist’s rendering, copy of his skeleton, scan of his genetic code, driver’s licence, etc.”

Like ‘size’ and ‘monstrosity’, mysteriousness is very relative!

Asterite34
May 19, 2009




Is Night of the Lepus a kaiju film?

Kaiju Cage Match
Nov 5, 2012





Asterite34 posted:

Is Night of the Lepus a kaiju film?

Yes.

GATOS Y VATOS
Aug 22, 2002





Singular Point Godzilla soft vinyl revealed

https://twitter.com/pasinpasin/status/1366044644698546180?s=20

GATOS Y VATOS
Aug 22, 2002





also lol at the Jet Jaguar sofubi

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Vintersorg
Mar 3, 2004

PRESIDENT OF THE OFFICIAL BRENDAN FRASER FAN CLUB





What. The. gently caress.

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Gripweed
Nov 8, 2018

ASK ME ABOUT MY
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I know I say this every time it comes up, but that is one Robotics;Notes rear end robot

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