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knowing how to fight generally makes one better at fighting, yes
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Oct 16, 2016 21:17
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SPOOKILY A BIRD posted:
That's the line you draw? I am more annoyed at the dude who's superpower it is to read young adult fiction novels and a book of 3650 jokes (that he didn't even like).
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Oct 16, 2016 22:29
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Blurred posted:Serious question: does knowledge of these disciplines really transfer into the ability to defend oneself properly in an actual fight situation? I know it's a common stdh trope to have a 5'2" /110lb dude beat off a bunch of bullies with his highly cultivated kung fu skills, but is there any truth to that at all? I mean, if you're a krav maga guru then you can probably handle yourself just fine, but is there any evidence the knowledge gained in these courses actually translates into a real ability to defend yourself in a spontaneous fight situation? It's mostly about having your instincts and knowledge revert to actually useful techniques. An untrained person will probably just flail around uselessly, like punching with wide swings with just their arms that don't do a whole lot of damage or blindly grabbing at poo poo. The idea is that you want to not only have conscious knowledge of the right techniques, but practice enough that if you get into a fight you're able to operate usefully on muscle memory and reflex that's been trained to use the techniques you learned. Basically, imagine learning how to throw a punch properly (using your torso's rotation to add to the force and not telegraphing big, wide swings) to the point where you automatically punch like that when you try to punch.
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Oct 16, 2016 22:36
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Fathis Munk posted:That's the line you draw? I am more annoyed at the dude who's superpower it is to read young adult fiction novels and a book of 3650 jokes (that he didn't even like). It's the same thing as people who insist that their eyes change colour depending on their mood. No they don't, and maybe you actually believe that, but it comes from such a pathetic desire to be extraordinary and interesting that it rubs me the wrong way
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Oct 16, 2016 22:57
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What the gently caress is THHGTTG?
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Oct 16, 2016 23:25
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Leavemywife posted:What the gently caress is THHGTTG? Hitch-hiker's Guide, I assume.
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Oct 16, 2016 23:27
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Blurred posted:Serious question: does knowledge of these disciplines really transfer into the ability to defend oneself properly in an actual fight situation? I know it's a common stdh trope to have a 5'2" /110lb dude beat off a bunch of bullies with his highly cultivated kung fu skills, but is there any truth to that at all? I mean, if you're a krav maga guru then you can probably handle yourself just fine, but is there any evidence the knowledge gained in these courses actually translates into a real ability to defend yourself in a spontaneous fight situation? Krav maga at least is specifically meant to train you for surprise situations. Basically, how to handle an attacker when you're not expecting it, and how to get away/end the fight quickly. Then again, I've never done anything other than tai chi, so I can't speak from experience.
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Oct 16, 2016 23:30
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Blurred posted:Serious question: does knowledge of these disciplines really transfer into the ability to defend oneself properly in an actual fight situation? I know it's a common stdh trope to have a 5'2" /110lb dude beat off a bunch of bullies with his highly cultivated kung fu skills, but is there any truth to that at all? I mean, if you're a krav maga guru then you can probably handle yourself just fine, but is there any evidence the knowledge gained in these courses actually translates into a real ability to defend yourself in a spontaneous fight situation? It helps if you're the top sniper in the entire U.S. armed forces.
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Oct 16, 2016 23:35
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Fathis Munk posted:That's the line you draw? I am more annoyed at the dude who's superpower it is to read young adult fiction novels and a book of 3650 jokes (that he didn't even like). That dude reminds me of when one of the Harry Potter books was released (probably the 5th one) and there was a story in the local newspaper the next day about a girl, who I'm pretty sure was related to one of the editors, having read it in like 11 hours. Everyone else I know who was into the books managed similar times. Reading at a 6th grade level does not actually make you a wizard, kids.
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Oct 16, 2016 23:41
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quote:I'm on a mobile so I'll make this quick. Look at me!! I'm so nice!! Vote Hillary!!!
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Oct 17, 2016 02:24
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Oct 17, 2016 03:18
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Oct 17, 2016 04:34
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Blurred posted:Serious question: does knowledge of these disciplines really transfer into the ability to defend oneself properly in an actual fight situation? If your definition is a violent assault on the street or in a bar, then not really. Street fights have a lot of variables, like number of people, possible weapons, different environmental hazards, intoxication, etc. In theory you could have a training program that puts your in these scenarios and drill them specifically. There are even a couple of courses that do that. But things go out the window very quickly, so the key self "defense" skill to have is to avoid risky situations and to be able to read when a fight might break out and either leave or descalate it. I've been in a few amateur kickboxing matches and have had a knife pulled on me during an attempted mugging. I did a reflexive evaluation of whether I could punch or kick this guy and knock him out before I got extremely hurt from getting stabbed and immediately decided against fighting. quote:I mean, if you're a krav maga guru then you can probably handle yourself just fine The quality of instruction with Krav Maga is extremely varied. You can get a certificate to teach KM in 3 days. Some schools can be very legit, have meaningful training, and have correct instruction about approaching self-defense. Other schools will just blow smoke up your rear end about how much of a badass you're becoming while teaching nothing of value. Krav Maga is certainly not alone in this kind of overhyping.
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Oct 17, 2016 04:44
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On the fighting stuff: I would like to ad that the guy bragging about how much he knows JiuJitsu, and Karate, and Kung Fu and whatever other words he learned from TV most likely knows jack poo poo. The guys, (in my experience and I know anecdote is not evidence), who actually know martial arts and self defense skills don't brag about how many magical badass techniques they have. Or if they do, it's less "hey bucko, I could kick your arse coz I know so much good fighty stuff", and more "I am proud of myself for having learned a new skill/progressed to the next level/won a medal etc."
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Oct 17, 2016 04:53
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BrigadierSensible posted:On the fighting stuff: I would like to ad that the guy bragging about how much he knows JiuJitsu, and Karate, and Kung Fu and whatever other words he learned from TV most likely knows jack poo poo. My ex BIL had a black belt in Tae Kwon Do. One of the local football teams sent a linebacker to his studio, hoping that their player could learn some grace and agility. 5'7" BIL faced 6'3" huge linebacker, and told him to charge. I think he expected to stop the linebacker with a kick. The linebacker flattened him.
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Oct 17, 2016 06:47
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Boing posted:It's the same thing as people who insist that their eyes change colour depending on their mood. No they don't, and maybe you actually believe that, but it comes from such a pathetic desire to be extraordinary and interesting that it rubs me the wrong way Yeah but that at least is kind of a cool brag. I am always amazed at the lovely brags Tropers try to pull off and this one was so unbelievably smug too.
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Oct 17, 2016 06:48
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Blurred posted:Serious question: does knowledge of these disciplines really transfer into the ability to defend oneself properly in an actual fight situation? I know it's a common stdh trope to have a 5'2" /110lb dude beat off a bunch of bullies with his highly cultivated kung fu skills, but is there any truth to that at all? I mean, if you're a krav maga guru then you can probably handle yourself just fine, but is there any evidence the knowledge gained in these courses actually translates into a real ability to defend yourself in a spontaneous fight situation? Depens on how you train. If you include full contact sparring in your training, then yes, it can help. If all you're doing is katas in the dojo, not so much. Regardless of the art, if you're going up against multiple opponents, you're pretty much hosed.
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Oct 17, 2016 10:42
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Purely anecdotal, but mine and my friends' experience with martial arts has involved the trainer being pretty honest about how little practical use that stuff is going to be in a fight. My instructor liked to use a highlighter pen as a knife substitute, just to highlight how utterly hosed you'd be if it came down to that. 
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Oct 17, 2016 11:40
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Non-scam self-defence classes tend to be pretty up front about the most reliable way to avoid getting hurt in a fight being not getting in fights, a point that surprisingly many people have to be told.
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Oct 17, 2016 12:26
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kimbo305 posted:The quality of instruction with Krav Maga is extremely varied. You can get a certificate to teach KM in 3 days. Some schools can be very legit, have meaningful training, and have correct instruction about approaching self-defense. Other schools will just blow smoke up your rear end about how much of a badass you're becoming while teaching nothing of value. Krav Maga is certainly not alone in this kind of overhyping. Krav Maga is the crossfit of martial arts. You might be doing good work, or you might be doing lovely work, but you are doubtlessly going to tell everyone and their brother about it.
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Oct 17, 2016 12:46
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Waci posted:Non-scam self-defence classes tend to be pretty up front about the most reliable way to avoid getting hurt in a fight being not getting in fights, a point that surprisingly many people have to be told. Yeah, heh. My instructors have been pretty chill and put more emphasis on it being about discipline and keeping in shape rather than mad skills.
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Oct 17, 2016 12:49
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kimbo305 posted:If your definition of a fight situation is a referred contest, like an actual combat sports match, then maybe, depending on the art. I practice KM and this cannot be said enough. You see instructors with virtually no prior training getting certified because they went through a high intensity course in 3 days. You just need to mimic the techniques enough and, congratulations, you're a teacher. I've been in more fights than all of my instructors combined (I'm not saying I've won all or even most of them) and that's a scary thought. Here's the thing about martial arts, or any other talent. You need to practice. Just like being a guitar player involves more than just jamming in your room, martial arts involve fighting, getting hurt, and learning how to to deal with that. A real fight, a fight that is not in an octagon, is much more difficult than anything you train for. You don't know if the other person has friends nearby, if he has a weapon, if he knows how to use it, etc. As a rule, you won't get into street fight, use your sweet Hannity skills and come out unscathed. You'll be bruised or worse (when it comes to knives, you only need to miss once and you get stabbed). In a professional fight, a professional martial artist will kick the ever loving poo poo out of you, over and over. In a street fight, he'll win against the person in front of him, and then get kicked, stabbed or shot by people around him. As a rule, just don't get into fights. Having said all of that, martial arts are really fun, and you should find a nice place to practice them. Even if you don't become a Hollywoodesque killing machine, it's fun to push your limits. ElGroucho posted:Krav Maga is the crossfit of martial arts. You might be doing good work, or you might be doing lovely work, but you are doubtlessly going to tell everyone and their brother about it. Oh, you also know km people who start going about" beast mode "and poo poo like that after lesson 1? Redrum and Coke has a new favorite as of 12:55 on Oct 17, 2016 |
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Oct 17, 2016 12:51
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While we're on the subject what's meant to be so brutal about Krav Maga? It's one of those things where I see a ton of people going on about how bad rear end it is, but very few saying anything about why it is.
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Oct 17, 2016 13:06
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poptart_fairy posted:Purely anecdotal, but mine and my friends' experience with martial arts has involved the trainer being pretty honest about how little practical use that stuff is going to be in a fight. My instructor liked to use a highlighter pen as a knife substitute, just to highlight how utterly hosed you'd be if it came down to that. Yeah, everyone's got this idea that knife fights occur like they do in the movies: someone stands off slightly more than arm's length away, waiting for the right moment to strike, then lunges with an attempted stab or slice that someone with sufficiently quick reflexes can deflect. Real knife attacks look more like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37XiSn81oFw
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Oct 17, 2016 13:44
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poptart_fairy posted:While we're on the subject what's meant to be so brutal about Krav Maga? It's one of those things where I see a ton of people going on about how bad rear end it is, but very few saying anything about why it is. Krav Maga, I was told by a guy who never shuts up about it, endorses no kind of honor system or anything so it teaches you to go for the balls or eyes or throat to end the fight quick. Also it tells you to attack first if you feel any threat so there's no calmly warning the dude like Ip Man, you just kick him the balls and run.
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Oct 17, 2016 13:50
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poptart_fairy posted:While we're on the subject what's meant to be so brutal about Krav Maga? It's one of those things where I see a ton of people going on about how bad rear end it is, but very few saying anything about why it is. Basically because it's a very practical martial art taught to soldiers and police. Military martial arts are designed to incapacitate your opponents as quickly and efficiently as possible without the added flourishes of traditional martial arts, or without the sportsman-like rules and regulations of martial arts that have turned into competitive sports. In addition, I suppose a martial art used by Mossad agents has an added cachet of being "bad-rear end", while the martial arts taught to Chinese soldiers are possibly just as effective and lethal.
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Oct 17, 2016 13:51
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poptart_fairy posted:While we're on the subject what's meant to be so brutal about Krav Maga? It's one of those things where I see a ton of people going on about how bad rear end it is, but very few saying anything about why it is. I wouldn't say it's brutal. You're not taught to damage your opponent for the hell of it, just to incapacitate him so that you can get away. This means hitting him anywhere that will cause significant damage, like his eyes and groin. This also brings up another problem with martial arts, since many instructors do not teach very basic legal concepts to their students. You cannot blind someone because he grabbed you, unless you're certain there's a real danger to your life (e. G. Not if you're just being controlled to stop fighting, or to get you to leave the). Instructors teach dangerous techniques that will either create false confidence in their students, or will land a student in jail. call center manager posted:Basically because it's a very practical martial art taught to soldiers and police. Military martial arts are designed to incapacitate your opponents as quickly and efficiently as possible without the added flourishes of traditional martial arts, or without the sportsman-like rules and regulations of martial arts that have turned into competitive sports. In addition, I suppose a martial art used by Mossad agents has an added cachet of being "bad-rear end", while the martial arts taught to Chinese soldiers are possibly just as effective and lethal. I always think it's funny how they use the history of KM as a really bad rear end story. "it was invented to stop the rise of the nazis! " Oh yeah, how did that go?
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Oct 17, 2016 15:09
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Non Serviam posted:I wouldn't say it's brutal. You're not taught to damage your opponent for the hell of it, just to incapacitate him so that you can get away. This means hitting him anywhere that will cause significant damage, like his eyes and groin. In 9th grade I took a self-defense course offered in my high school. It was really basic poo poo that served as a PE credit; the hardest things we ever practiced were poo poo like twisting your wrist to get out of a grab. Then we got to watch a self-defense video made in the late 80s or early 90s that swung between showing off the most painful things possible (like twisting and squeezing testicles or gouging out eyes) and poo poo like a jogger getting away from someone sexually harassing her by yanking his shorts down and running.
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Oct 17, 2016 15:48
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I like my boxing class, because nobody has ever said, "This is what you would do in a bar room situation" because we train specifically for amateur fights under the supervision of licensed officials. I'm not going to go get choked out by some gorilla hands grappler to prove some idiotic point.
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Oct 17, 2016 15:55
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oldpainless posted:Krav Maga, I was told by a guy who never shuts up about it, endorses no kind of honor system or anything so it teaches you to go for the balls or eyes or throat to end the fight quick. Also it tells you to attack first if you feel any threat so there's no calmly warning the dude like Ip Man, you just kick him the balls and run. Is that really a Krav Manga thing? If there's anything I remember from taking Karate in high school, it was that the trainer usually stressed three important points about getting in fights. 1) Don't get in fights. 2) If you are being mugged, just give the mugger what he wants. Your wallet and phone is probably not worth a visit to the hospital or worse. 3) If a fight is inevitable, just kick the opponent in the crotch and run away as fast as possible. Actually, my Aikido trainer in university said he had trained a number of different martial arts through the years, and had found Aikido the most useful, as it focuses a lot on proper falling technique and my country has a lot of ice on the roads during winter. Basically, just do martial arts for exercise and recreation. It's a lot of fun, but don't count on it to save you in a real fight.
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Oct 17, 2016 18:11
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I think I've told this story in this thread, but after learning self defense and basics of Tai Chi, Aikido, Krav Maga, two guys tried to mug me, I broke a nose and started shouting, and then called 911 on myself, sobbing. The 911 operator explained what happened to me, and everything was (relatively) fine. Don't get into real fights; it's horrible.
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Oct 17, 2016 18:17
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Not to further dwell on this, but here is what happened to a Marine from my home town. http://votemanker.com/austin-attack/  "That night, as I approached my vehicle, the lunatic ran from the shadows and pointed a weapon directly at my friend Chris Panelli’s head. Thinking it was a handgun, I made my way around the car to the attacker’s flank, at which point he turned on me. Because I thought he had a gun, I grabbed him with my left hand and punched him with my right. (The feeling that you’re about to get shot point blank is never a good one) Thankfully(?), it wasn’t a gun, but a 12-inch KABAR knife. During the struggle, he stabbed me repeatedly in the chest, arm, hand, back, head/face, and worst of all, in my neck, severing my jugular vein. 10 times in all." Trained Marine, Combat Veteran and nearly got his head cut off.
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Oct 17, 2016 19:44
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CannedMacabre posted:Trained Marine, Combat Veteran and nearly got his head cut off. To throw some more water on the Krav Maga deadly soldier marketing -- do you think Marines or any infantry spend that much time on hand to hand or hand to weapon combat? Would you want them to? WrenP-Complete posted:I think I've told this story in this thread, but after learning self defense and basics of Tai Chi, Aikido, Krav Maga, two guys tried to mug me, I broke a nose and started shouting, and then called 911 on myself, sobbing. The 911 operator explained what happened to me, and everything was (relatively) fine. Don't get into real fights; it's horrible. You told it in the Martial Arts thread (which other folks should read if you've been at all curious about training).
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Oct 17, 2016 20:30
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I'm pretty sure he also told it here
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Oct 17, 2016 20:39
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Furia posted:I'm pretty sure he also told it here She, please. And thanks, I'm also pretty sure it was here, I don't read the martial arts thread.
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Oct 17, 2016 20:49
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Non Serviam posted:A real fight, a fight that is not in an octagon, is much more difficult than anything you train for. You don't know if the other person has friends nearby, if he has a weapon, if he knows how to use it, etc. As a rule, you won't get into street fight, use your sweet Hannity skills and come out unscathed. You'll be bruised or worse (when it comes to knives, you only need to miss once and you get stabbed). Seriously. The majority of real fights look something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jepe68XC6tU.
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Oct 17, 2016 21:31
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Practicing weapon-based martial arts has taught me that, especially when it comes to knives, you're bound to get hurt in the process. Some historical texts even assume you're going to get cut in an attempt to do something, and focus on getting a less deadly cut.
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Oct 17, 2016 21:43
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I read a book on self defense by this ex-army guy that was basically, "Make up your mind that you are going to be stabbed to poo poo, and then if you are threatening enough, maybe the other guy will not want to get stabbed to poo poo. Protip: Slash their forehead so they get blood in their eyes, and then run like a bitch."
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Oct 17, 2016 21:49
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Some medieval fighting manuals have tips that boil down to 'Someone's going to hit you. Try not to lose an arm, but if you are afraid of that happening, don't fight.' This has been a thing for a long time.
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Oct 17, 2016 21:52
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With how dangerous it is, why does anybody even fight anymore?
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Oct 17, 2016 22:04
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