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Izzhov posted:Jake was actually really well-liked yesterday. His casework of P Mach seems flimsy in retrospect (since we know he's wrong), but at the time quite a few people complimented him on catching a seemingly shady as hell post that a lot of other people seemed to miss. If you look at the posts of people talking about Jake yesterday (rather than his own posts), you'll see quite a few people saying poo poo like "drat son JakeP is on fire today, I think he's town" etc. It may be as simple as scum thinking they wouldn't be able to build a clinch case against him. It doesn't matter if he's well liked on D1 if his scum picks are wrong. Let him live and drive a couple more mislynches against town because it's an easy way to hide as scum. At a certain point people will turn on him and start thinking he's scum if he leads the charge against too many town members. And if the people don't turn on him after a couple days of mislynching people then scum can kill him. So I'm more inclined to believe that Jake was right about some of his other scum picks and that made scum want to get rid of a charismatic threat.
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May 13, 2016 13:25
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Hmm, on a reread of TQ I am not liking their content from the second half of the day.
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May 13, 2016 13:29
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TMMadman posted:It doesn't matter if he's well liked on D1 if his scum picks are wrong. Let him live and drive a couple more mislynches against town because it's an easy way to hide as scum. At a certain point people will turn on him and start thinking he's scum if he leads the charge against too many town members. And if the people don't turn on him after a couple days of mislynching people then scum can kill him. It's possible, though in my (incredibly limited) experience, this kind of logic is super wifommy. They could just as easily have killed him to help build a case against someone he accused. I should know - I employed that exact tactic in my first game.
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May 13, 2016 13:31
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TMMadman posted:It doesn't matter if he's well liked on D1 if his scum picks are wrong. Let him live and drive a couple more mislynches against town because it's an easy way to hide as scum. At a certain point people will turn on him and start thinking he's scum if he leads the charge against too many town members. And if the people don't turn on him after a couple days of mislynching people then scum can kill him. I feel like this is a lot of wifom poo poo especially since he was wrong about pmach and myself.
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May 13, 2016 13:31
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Kashuno posted:Hmm, on a reread of TQ I am not liking their content from the second half of the day. I revoke this statement. I think it's more of a tone thing than an actual content related thing. Disregard.
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May 13, 2016 13:32
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Kashuno posted:Hmm? He does go on me hard, but he presents logical and valid arguments against me and elsewhere. He seemed very spot on with his arguments and the logic behind it. He doesn't have to be right to have valid and logical arguments with good reasoning, and it's weird to me that'd you imply such a thing. This doesn't make any sense at all to me. How can be be presenting logical and valid arguments about you when you know you're town? Why do you think I fight so hard when people start accusing me of being scum when I'm town? Sure, I say that I can understand why they might thing that way but then I tell them why they are wrong. And I certainly don't think someone is 'spot on' with his reads enough to give him Shine on N1 when he just flipped a town member and has been argued to get another town member lynched (you). Especially since a scum Jake often leads the lynch and will drop the first vote on someone. Even though I agreed with the case on PMach yesterday, I started having doubts about Jake as soon as I saw the flip because it fits his scum meta to lead a mislynch on D1.
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May 13, 2016 13:33
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That's an incredibly noob scum move though that I feel most people would see through. If anything it just makes me more inclined to think the people sleuthing through people he convicted are the actual scum.
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May 13, 2016 13:37
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Quidnose posted:Are you loving kidding me. While I agree with Quid and zzyzx about how strange it comes across from Azuth, I feel like there are much better targets for Quid to look at. Yesterday it was izzhov, a brand new player with little experience, and today it's azuth with (admittedly, stupid) their mention of pmach. The fact that Quidnose posted:Are we all just going to ignore how Azuth cased the D1 cuddle, admittedly not by actually doing any reads of the thread or going after any leads, but simply by saying "who was a lurker" and then coming up with reasons why they are suspicious? happens here seems like Quid is stuck on a tunnel for an easy lynch today. On the other hand, Quid takes their vote off of me and moves to azuth, when I don't think there is anyone who's under the impression I'm town right now. Maybe because Quid knows i'm going to flip town and wants to act like they're exploring other avenues in the mean time? He can always roll right back to me if town decides they want to go for more lynches during lights out, and then get back on azuth afterwards. Quid I'd be interested to hear if you think Azuth is scummier than I am.
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May 13, 2016 13:39
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TMMadman posted:This doesn't make any sense at all to me. How can be be presenting logical and valid arguments about you when you know you're town? Why do you think I fight so hard when people start accusing me of being scum when I'm town? Sure, I say that I can understand why they might thing that way but then I tell them why they are wrong.
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May 13, 2016 13:40
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What is the d1 cuddle? Meant to ask that yesterday
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May 13, 2016 13:42
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TMMadman posted:This doesn't make any sense at all to me. How can be be presenting logical and valid arguments about you when you know you're town? Why do you think I fight so hard when people start accusing me of being scum when I'm town? Sure, I say that I can understand why they might thing that way but then I tell them why they are wrong. See unlike you I don't like my ego color my entire gameplay  I can admit when I am making mistakes as town and playing poorly, and I can detach myself and acknowledge when people make arguments against me that are logically constructed based on the information they know not the information that I know. Being wrong doesn't mean they aren't thinking about things from a town perspective. Lynching a townie doesn't inherently make someone bad or a danger to town. Jake was constructing good arguments and using peoples words against them in a way that was very valid.
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May 13, 2016 13:42
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Mayor Glowku posted:What is the d1 cuddle? Meant to ask that yesterday Propaganda Machine
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May 13, 2016 13:42
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Mayor Glowku posted:What is the d1 cuddle? Meant to ask that yesterday cuddle = lynch.
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May 13, 2016 13:42
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Mayor Glowku posted:I still think Kash is scum because of this. There was every reason to not give shine to the guy who just led the lynch on a town. wrong != scum and I don't know why you're equating them like they are.
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May 13, 2016 13:43
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God damnit use lynch none of this other poo poo it's confusing
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May 13, 2016 13:44
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Mayor Glowku posted:God damnit use lynch none of this other poo poo it's confusing please use lunch or plorp those are the only words that do not trigger me tyvm
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May 13, 2016 13:44
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Kashuno posted:wrong != scum and I don't know why you're equating them like they are. Wrong but well orchestrated arguments very well could be scum. I wasn't saying he's scum let's kill him, I'm saying it's not clear that he's trustworthy yet so don't give him shine
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May 13, 2016 13:45
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Kashuno posted:please use lunch or plorp those are the only words that do not trigger me tyvm I'm going to plunch your plorphole
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May 13, 2016 13:46
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Mayor Glowku posted:Wrong but well orchestrated arguments very well could be scum. I wasn't saying he's scum let's kill him, I'm saying it's not clear that he's trustworthy yet so don't give him shine This is ridiculous. Please tell me who was the proper shine delivery target on N1.
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May 13, 2016 13:47
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I prefer 'turn upside down and slowly lower head-first into a barrel full of our collective piss'.
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May 13, 2016 13:48
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May 13, 2016 13:48
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Kashuno posted:This is ridiculous. Please tell me who was the proper shine delivery target on N1. I don't know what I would have done in your position honestly but I don't think I'd have given it to JakeP.
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May 13, 2016 13:52
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Kashuno posted:This is ridiculous. Please tell me who was the proper shine delivery target on N1. How about anyone who wasn't driving what turned out to be a mislynch and was arguing for you to get lynched as well? How many people does Jake have to be wrong about before you start thinking he might be scum? You say he was wrong about you and he ended up being wrong about PMach, so who do you think he was right about? His other main targets seemed to be Izzhov and Jimson, while he defended Inf to a degree.
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May 13, 2016 13:55
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Like you aren't the only person judging me for choosing JakeP to deliver to, but no one has offered an obvious alternative that I missed. Jake led a town lynch on DAY loving ONE like that's the end of the world to the people in this game for some reason. Leading a d1 lynch doesn't mean jack poo poo to me, since d1 even with large amounts of content to work through and analyze and form opinions on, is still more than significantly likely to end up in a town lynching town. There was nothing fake about the way jake was playing and just because he was looking at town players doesn't make it wrong that he was forming cohesive, strong, and logical arguments.
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May 13, 2016 13:55
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##vote Kashuno At this point, he is just clouding the water and I can't trust a single thing he says. Every post he makes about another person just leaves me thinking is he bussing this person or defending town?
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May 13, 2016 13:58
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TMMadman posted:How about anyone who wasn't driving what turned out to be a mislynch and was arguing for you to get lynched as well? why would I be pushing that Jake was making logical and good arguments if all it did was condemn me as scum? Seriously you guys act like it's my first mafia game.
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May 13, 2016 14:00
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Not to mention that in all of this action, he has only voted Jimson and himself. I'd think if he was town then he'd be arguing for someone to be lynched, but all he's doing is defending himself.
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May 13, 2016 14:00
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 Votecount for Day 2   Kashuno (8): TMMadman, dongsbot 9000, Quidnose, Jimson, Mayor Glowku, Absurd Revolver, Infinitum, Kashuno, Anomalous Amalgam, Jimson (3): Kashuno, Truth Quark, Infinitum, Quidnose (2): Infinitum, Azuth0667 Azuth0667 (1): Quidnose TMMadman (1): Truth Quark Infinitum (0): Absurd Revolver, Izzhov (0): Quidnose, Not Voting (3): Hal Incandenza, HiipFire, Kashuno  With 18 alive, it's 10 votes to lynch. The current deadline is May 13th, 2016 at 9 p.m. EDT -- that's in about 11 hours, 59 minutes.  "Shine might be man's worst enemy, but y'know what the Bible says? Love thy enemies. So I'll be good and Biblical about all this business, eh?"
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May 13, 2016 14:00
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When I die, I ask you guys to immediately end the day. I will flip town, and I think confirming that will be the most beneficial option for town since there has been a lot of content generated around me today.
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May 13, 2016 14:01
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Kashuno posted:why would I be pushing that Jake was making logical and good arguments if all it did was condemn me as scum? Seriously you guys act like it's my first mafia game. Why did I agree to kill KB in the Canadian game? It's because he was right about me and then I turned around and survived D2 by saying that clearly scum were trying to paint me as a patsy since KB was looking to get my lynched.
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May 13, 2016 14:01
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TMMadman posted:Not to mention that in all of this action, he has only voted Jimson and himself. I'd think if he was town then he'd be arguing for someone to be lynched, but all he's doing is defending himself. I've made suspicions clear elsewhere. Right now, I'd be looking at Quidnose but I want to hear what he has to say re: Azuth v me. Izzhov looks strange to me the longer this day goes on, and AA's case against Jimson is too wifom for my taste.
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May 13, 2016 14:03
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Kash, here's a simple question: Who do you think should be lynched? You haven't really made any arguments about who should be lynched today and the only real vote you made was against Jimson. Why didn't you stick with that vote?
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May 13, 2016 14:03
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TMMadman posted:Why did I agree to kill KB in the Canadian game? It's because he was right about me and then I turned around and survived D2 by saying that clearly scum were trying to paint me as a patsy since KB was looking to get my lynched. If anyone has ever played with my scum game they should realize I never target the obvious.
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May 13, 2016 14:03
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Kashuno posted:I've made suspicions clear elsewhere. Right now, I'd be looking at Quidnose but I want to hear what he has to say re: Azuth v me. Izzhov looks strange to me the longer this day goes on, and AA's case against Jimson is too wifom for my taste. And yet, you haven't voted ANY of them! Why not?
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May 13, 2016 14:03
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Kashuno posted:If anyone has ever played with my scum game they should realize I never target the obvious. Self meta defenses are invalid as you so often like to point out to me.
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May 13, 2016 14:04
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TMMadman posted:Kash, here's a simple question: Who do you think should be lynched? I didn't stick with jimson because, as I have already stated, the bartender flavor without a counter claim to that seems logical to me. The power fits the flavor as far as I'm concerned, and while he is playing a loving terrible game I don't think he's scum for it. Right now I'd like to direct something toward Quid due to the hostile nature of their gameplay this game and their weird targets.
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May 13, 2016 14:05
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Kashuno posted:I didn't stick with jimson because, as I have already stated, the bartender flavor without a counter claim to that seems logical to me. The power fits the flavor as far as I'm concerned, and while he is playing a loving terrible game I don't think he's scum for it. And yet, you haven't voted him. Why not?
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May 13, 2016 14:06
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TMMadman posted:And yet, you haven't voted ANY of them! Why not? I've been on the back foot today and have to direct my efforts and focus more to defending myself and less to scum hunting. I am trying to do both, but I get invested in my own survival far too much and it is dragging my attention
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May 13, 2016 14:06
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TMMadman posted:And yet, you haven't voted him. Why not? As stated, I would like to hear Quid talk about azuth vs me, and why he believes that azuth is a better vote than I am, after being 100% sure I am scum.
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May 13, 2016 14:07
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Kashuno posted:I've been on the back foot today and have to direct my efforts and focus more to defending myself and less to scum hunting. I am trying to do both, but I get invested in my own survival far too much and it is dragging my attention This is complete bullshit and you know it. You could easily drop a vote on the person you most suspect to be scum without making some sort of big case. And even so, you've had plenty of time to make any sort of case against something as I made it clear yesterday that I was willing give you time before lynching you. You've spent the majority of the day so far around -4/-3, so there's no real reason to constantly keep defending yourself without also looking to make cases against someone you think is actually scum.
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May 13, 2016 14:10
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