Hearts of Iron IV: Finland was in the Axis

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Hearts of Iron IV: Finland was in the Axis

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Enjoy posted:

Yeah it's especially weird that they didn't even make the Scandinavian social democrats and Labour party leaders socialists, when usually Scandinavian countries get good attention to detail from Paradox. I'd assume there was some kind of right-wing political bias, but Paradox have always been even-handed towards the left wing in their games so that's crazy.

Paradox is actually showing their right wing bias, as social democrats are fascists.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2016 16:45

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 12:44

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

CommunistPancake posted:

???

Precisely. They pretend like they're democratic, when in real life they and all other capitalists are just fascists with a fancy name.

# ¿ Jun 9, 2016 17:18

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Sky Shadowing posted:

They should work it so that the Allies prefer to release independent democracies (who are automatically added to the Allies), the Comintern creates puppet states, and the Axis just straight up annexes the territory.

The Allies should probably still create puppets out of any major enemy power like Germany or Japan though.

Sky Shadowing posted:

And work it so that you can get multiple copies of nations to simulate the dividing of countries into West/East Germany, North/South Korea, etc. So that as the enemy really does start collapsing it becomes more about pushing the borders so as to make the Iron Curtain fall in a position more advantageous to yourself.

How does it actually work currently? In EU4 for example what you occupy determines, what you can take, but that doesn't seem to be the case from what people are saying here? Maybe a strict "need to occupy to take" rule wouldn't be ideal, but it seems like it should be a pretty big factor in things. I mean, if the Germans had decided to pull even more of their forces east than they did historically, and had managed to hold the Russians in Poland while the US and the UK had managed a rapid almost uncontested push, and they met the Russians somewhere in Poland, I kinda doubt the former would have respected the Yalta Agreement.

I'm thinking something like this could result in more sensible conferences:

1. Conference divided into Greater Region, so various regions would be dealt with largely separately.
2. Such a Greater Region would then be further divided into zones, which come as a unified whole in peace conferences. Any zone wholly or nearly wholly occupied by one country is automatically added to their take.
3. After that, the country with the largest occupation of a zone in the contested area gets to pick first, likely picking that zone because it's cheaper. (Cost based on occupation percentage and boots on the ground.)
4. Process repeats with the next country with the next highest occupation score that hasn't just taken a province, until every zone has been claimed.
5. Based on the controlled zones, countries are then released as free countries, puppets, or remain under direct control, depending on the policies of the state in question.

# ¿ Jun 11, 2016 09:13

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The Cheshire Cat posted:

Casualties affecting your national unity should probably depend on the ratio of casualties to overall manpower, though. After all, Russia sending people into the meatgrinder shouldn't tank their national unity considering that was what worked for them in real life.

Could just have casualties taken on your home territory not count for this, or at a reduced ratio.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2016 07:03

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MG42 posted:

confused:

A true Turko-Iranian empire.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2016 12:48

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Bitter Mushroom posted:

the abstracted oil and supplies thing is good in some regards but has lead to a silly situation where I have one danish submarine in the baltic,hes been in the same sea province for a year now but 20 destroyers and 100 stukas cant seem to catch him. Admiral Bonde is a legend to be sure, but I would like him to die now

It's obviously a nuclear submarine built by Bohr.

# ¿ Jun 12, 2016 21:28

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Uziduke posted:

I drop two nukes on Helsinki and one on Oslo.

My historical sensibilities hurt when I read this. Like, there's a bunch of good reasons to not bomb those as any kind of conquering Sweden, and especially a communist one. 1: Cities are more amenable to left-wing governments. 2. Oslo is full of culturally similar people who could probably be brought into line pretty easily. 3. Helsinki at the time would I think have had a healthy Swedish minority at the time, possibly up to a third of the population. 4. A healthy city is worth far more than the wasteland that is the majority of Fennoscandia. Though I suppose this matters very little in-game.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2016 18:12

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Uziduke posted:

Yeah I'm not going historical at all right now. There is a Achievement to nuke Denmark with Sweden, but I think that would be death for me at this time.

Hey, I'm not going to tell you how to play your game, just that you're sinning against history and good sense.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2016 19:44

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Main Paineframe posted:

As a South American minor, is it better to declare wars on your neighbors early while the US is alone and at peace (and therefore weaker and lacking allies to throw at you) or later when the US joins a faction and gets involved in the war?

I'm pretty sure the fact that the US guarantees both the people you declare on, and you, means it won't actually intervene. It's basically a guarantee against aggression from the outside, not inter-Americas aggression.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2016 21:41

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TehKeen posted:

The one thing I don't like is that you can only get Scientist Haven if you're still a Democracy, which is kind of dumb.

Why is that dumb? Isn't it basically the US going "Yo, we're assembling a dream team to save the world from dictators, come join us" to scientists from across the world? Why would they come to the US if it was just another dictatorship? In that case they might as well just stay home and either support their local dictator, or if in a democracy; democracy itself.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2016 22:02

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AceRimmer posted:

Yeah, though I think a commie ahistorical US should get some sort of socialist scientist focus chain, just a longer one similar to the ones that the USSR gets.
Could totally see a socialist US focus tree for setting up a secret city type program (+1 slot) and influx of refugee communist scientists attracted by the revolution (+2% research speed).

Yeah, a socialist US could have its own version of the program, and actually probably do something sorta what they did historically. It's not like there weren't a bunch of scientists with socialists/internationalist sympathies, which could probably slot in pretty well with how a socialist US would present itself. Especially in a socialist US that was a bit more free than Stalin's USSR.

# ¿ Jun 13, 2016 22:17

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Fellblade posted:

I know this is from pages ago and I'm banging my head against a brick wall and won't change anything but... it's Great Britain or United Kingdom not England, stop it!

The UK/Great Britain is a tool of English imperialism, calling it England is simply doing justice to history and the downtrodden of the world.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2016 09:11

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walgreenslatino posted:

Unfortunately my save has a recurring CTD at 5:00 on May 22, 1945 that I can't get around. One week after I finished researching nukes

The "It might ignite the entire atmosphere" theory of nuclear weapons clearly proved correct in this reality.

# ¿ Jun 14, 2016 15:34

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paint dry posted:

You're never going to get a "good" AI in a game like this, because if it isn't intentionally hobbled in some way you'll end up with insane scenarios like Ireland invading Denmark, or the AI just going completely wild with civil wars.

That kinda depends on what you set as the AI's goals, doesn't it? A "Status-quo AI" would be very different from a "Conqueror AI", even if both had near-human strategic sense. Or not, as the case may be.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2016 18:54

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THE PWNER posted:

I paradropped 12 paratroopers onto a city and after a 2 second battle with the garrison the entire army disappeared from existence!

This can happen if you don't produce enough parachutes.

slavatuvs posted:

What did it for me was his Victoria 2 blind play.

He seemed to be absolutely clueless about a few basic events in his own country's history.

Any examples?

# ¿ Jun 15, 2016 21:08

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slavatuvs posted:

Not knowing when the civil war started.

Look, we can't all remember the minutiae of history.

Dongattack posted:

Re: Arumba

The man is clearly insane on some level, he puts out 6-10 videos every day and also streams. I didn't find out that he was a bit of a oval office until i caught a stream, but the sheer number of videos he flooded me made me unsub ages ago. But yeah, i honestly think he has some mental problems.

It's called a job. Geesh.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2016 22:13

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Alchenar posted:

Air need seriously tuning down, fewer sorties, more benefits from selecting your airfields well in advance.

Something like "operational efficiency" perhaps, increasing from 25 to 75% over time for just being placed at an airfield, and then the remaining 25% from carrying out a given mission? (Numbers subject to balance.) Lower "operational efficiency" resulting in fewer sorties being flown.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2016 12:07

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ExtraNoise posted:

I want to share this because it's taken so much work just to get here. But it works, it works!

Edit: Ofaloaf, I dug through the ideas files and what you have there SHOULD work. Maybe try removing the do_effect and ai_will_do declarations?

The first scenario should clearly be named "The End of History". The second one would of course be "Decision Points".

(Looking forward to seeing more.)

# ¿ Jun 16, 2016 20:46

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Sylink posted:

Nukes should reduce the population in a province by 90%.

Why should they be so much more powerful than they were in reality? The bombing of Hiroshima only killed about 25% of the population of the city. Which given the urbanization rate at the time would probably be something like 10% of the population of the province.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2016 05:30

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cock hero flux posted:

Currently nukes kill literally no one so "realism" may not be the argument here.

Admittedly, the whole "Let's not enable genocide in our WW2 game" might be the bigger factor, I'm just saying that leaving it out doesn't produce results that far from reality either.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2016 05:49

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ExtraNoise posted:

I love it. I will try to integrate both into the narrative! (The End of History is a great title for a game start.)

There's a reason I suggested it.

ExtraNoise posted:

I've setup a Google Spreadsheet that I need help filling out. Primarily the first two tabs. If it's light red, it needs filling in. It's open for anyone to edit and is anonymous, so you can put stuff in there directly. (I'm putting my trust in you goons, only let me down a little bit.)

Keep in mind that the mod starts on July 1, 1993.

If you help, please let me know and I'll make sure you are listed in the credits.

What counts as communist or fascist in democracies? Or neutral? I'm filling in Denmark at the moment, according to this logic:

Communist: Any party which had a socialist state as its end goal, even if they were also democratic.
Fascist: Any hardline anti-immigrant party
Neutral: Anti-NATO/EU parties which are not also socialist
Democratic: Any party which supports the status quo

Which looking at the numbers for Canada, does not seem like the approach used there, otherwise I don't think it would be so heavily neutral. I mean, Canada has been a key member of NATO since its inception, and has a solid democratic history, so I'd put it squarely in the democratic camp.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2016 06:41

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Gort posted:

There's no guarantee the AI will use them, of course. Maybe if an AI calculates it has 50% more military strength than its opponent it'll use aggressive mode.

Germany under Hitler should of course always use Rush.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2016 15:12

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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Aren't there quite a few countries with both presidents and prime ministers? Technically the president would be the head of state, the prime minister is the head of government.

Off the top of my head I'm pretty sure Russia has that system, so maybe use whichever they use?

Much of the former USSR, France, a bunch of African states, and assorted others. In any case, the position is supposed to be pretty ceremonial from what I gather, not unlike the German president, though obviously Erdogan is trying to make it more akin to Putin's presidency. In any case, the game generally uses whichever position actually holds power, doesn't it? Not whichever was technically head of state in real life

# ¿ Jun 17, 2016 16:24

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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:

Yeah, otherwise it would be the Queen or governor-generals (governors-general?) in Britain and the commonwealth. I think HoI4 just calls it the 'national leader' unlike HoI2.

I found a German spy. Everyone knows it'd be the King during this period.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2016 16:31

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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:

If Iran is Democratic than there's going to be some ahistorical gameplay issues with Israel methinks.

Why? Israel should be Fascist. :siren:

# ¿ Jun 17, 2016 19:00

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Jeoh posted:

Liberating Korea as Communist USA installs the capitalist puppet Syngman Rhee rather than the rightful ruler of the Koreas, Kim Il-Sung.

Kim Il-Sung would never be a puppet ruler.

# ¿ Jun 18, 2016 18:06

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Larry Parrish posted:

Its a unique event designed to simulate how the Reich gave Southern France more-or-less autonomy under some fascist assholes. The problem is it seems to only make sense if Germany is fighting France solo, because you get situations like this where Germany only had the north but they get to puppet the remainder anyway

Seems like a really weird decision to have such a railroady event at this point in Paradox's history. Like, one of the first things you should think of when designing a historical event is how it interacts with an ahistorical scenario, and the fall of France seems like a pretty central feature, so it really should have more attention paid to it. Seems to me, that if the game must have an event for this scenario (which seems fair enough), then it should at the very least have a few different outcomes based on the facts on the ground. Both for a joint invasion of France, and in case France is attacked in multiple wars.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2016 06:21

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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:

Sorry, I have the German version of the game

Pretty crazy that Paradox would license her image for their game, but I guess they know what they're doing.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2016 18:16

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Saint Celestine posted:

No, your factory making rifles cant suddenly start turning out battleships. Especially if theyre located inland.

Germany should have the option of building super-heavy tanks out of their dockyards of course.

# ¿ Jun 24, 2016 18:00

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We live in a sad age. Imperialism, totalitarianism, perestroika... 20th century Russia had its share of problems, but at least they had an ideology. Russia today has nothing. - Revolver Ocelot

# ¿ Jul 3, 2016 14:27

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Empress Theonora posted:

[ask] me about how hundreds of Luftwaffe planes escaped to the Far East after the capitulation of Germany and are now blowing up my ships alongside the IJN in the East China Sea

That's pretty realistic, all they'd have to do is fly into the subtropical jet (stream) and it'd take them straight to Japan.

# ¿ Jul 6, 2016 19:04

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ExtraNoise posted:

Just fired up the mod with what I had (took a bit to import it manually) and it's looking pretty good:

You know, except for the colors being all wrong and me apparently ham-fisting the numpad to screw up province ID numbers so a bunch are missing in Spain and France and are instead scattered all over the world.

But you know, other than THAT. At least it loaded without crashing to desktop.

Edit:

So I tried a bunch of things to get the colors working. I changed France to "255 0 0" and it came out as green, so then I thought maybe the order was different, but then I couldn't get anything correct based on an G R B value instead of R G B. Anyway, long story short, I eventually went into the game's default files, copied Spain's colors (into France, I know, I know, but as R G B values they matched the game's color for Spain - a bright yellow) and saved only to discover that France had turned bright red.

I have no idea. There must be some other value at work here that I can't find in the files.

There's nothing wrong with those colors. The EU is a bunch of homo-nazis anyway, as any right-thinking Russian will tell you.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2016 14:27

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Kaza42 posted:

I really think that army XP should be used to develop doctrines, so that it stays useful the entire game and you don't have 90% of your tree researched by the time a war breaks out

Yeah, that was one of the first things I thought was a really weird design decision when looking at gameplay videos. Like, logically I would probably have figured something called army XP would go into developing doctrines before I'd think of division design.

Saint Celestine posted:

This game is unplayable at times because of bizarre AI.

I had a game where I beat Germany fast as France, The German republic was created in East Prussia, turned focus towards Japan. Soviets attacked Poland, Japan joined Comintern, so I'm fighting USSR/Japan. 1942 rolls around, The USA declares war against the Democratic German Republic, who then joins the Allies, which the UK calls to arms.

So now we have the US/USSR/Japan vs UK/France.

I just exited the game.

The gently caress...?

The National Focuses are basically just railroads at this point, right? Just there are a few to choose from, rather than a strict historical scenario.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2016 11:19

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popewiles posted:

For a game set in any other era I'd agree, but given the narrow focus of this game on a period of world war I think it is fitting if occasionally frustrating that wars have to be fought to capitulation.

That makes sense when you have the big guys going at each other, since of course both sides would be aware of the risk of not completely defeating your enemy, but if one side is just one or more minors it'd probably make sense to allow for white peaces. I mean, as you say yourself, the focus is supposed to be on the world war, so being forced to fight a side show kinda goes counter to that.

# ¿ Jul 10, 2016 22:02

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ExtraNoise posted:

Modern mod question for you guys:

I'm trying to come up with a new Germany fascist flag? I obviously want to avoid the swastika. What do you think of either of these?

I like the first one as a design, though perhaps it's not romantic enough for a fascist? Might depend a bit on exactly what kind of fascism we're talking about, what part of Germany's past they're looking back on fondly and what they see as a foundational character of Germany. It might be pretty appropriate for the discipline and order kinda types who aren't that obsessed with romantic notions of the old reichs.

Anyway, we all know a proper Fascist Germany in the modern period is a federal EU, so I made a flag for that instead. Well, two flags. One with the current number of stars, one with a star for every state in Europe besides Russia. Decided to modernize the Bundesadler a bit, as the current one is clearly too doofy looking for a modern state.

And because it was a simple thing to do, the same eagle on the old German flag.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2016 10:35

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ExtraNoise posted:

This is REALLY cool. Do you have a large version of your modern Bundesadler I could use with my template?

Thank you. And yeah, I do, what size do you want? The file is in a vector format, so I can basically make it any size.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2016 22:35

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ExtraNoise posted:

800 x 800px (or thereabouts) would be ideal!

Here you go.

# ¿ Jul 11, 2016 22:59

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Regarde Aduck posted:

The UK and Japan were both known for their tenacity during WW II. Why do you think the UK would give up while the British Isles were secure? And Japan needed two nukes. Weird choices to pick on.

Gort posted:

Yeah, my point with Japan is that if you nuke them twice in the game without landing on Japan itself, they won't surrender. Given that that's how they surrendered in real life it points to their national unity being too high.

The Soviet invasion had something to do with it too, so perhaps being at war with more than one faction could lower national unity too? I mean, it makes sense as a general mechanic too, as any faction might carry a slim hope that another faction is going to intercede on their behalf or in some other way turn the tide. Conversely, if the faction you're fighting is fighting another faction besides yours, you should probably get a boost to your unity for the simple reason that eventual victory would seem much more certain. (Both could be weighed according to the strength of the factions, so the Comintern counts for more than some silly little faction with 10 divisions between them.

# ¿ Jul 17, 2016 21:48

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cock hero flux posted:

So the AI absolutely does not look at the overall situation when someone completes a focus to ask them to join a faction. Hitler can be writing a letter to them from the bombed out shack in Norway that is the current capitol of the Third Reich and they will jump at the chance to join him.

Also since a lot of focuses require them to own certain parts of the map when they own almost nothing they tend to start doing the ones that get them new allies because they usually have no requirement other than not being at war with the target. What this means is that while you may have essentially already won the war(because if you can beat Germany you can beat Italy or Spain or whatever) you end up playing whack a mole for 5 extra years.

Seems like the most obvious solution would be to gate them behind having less then a certain fraction of your victory points occupied, which I'm kinda surprised they didn't do, but then it does seem like they didn't put much effort into "divergence proofing" them either.

# ¿ Jul 20, 2016 11:10

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 12:44

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Dongattack posted:

How much longer are the swedes on vacation? Hankering for more content/patches that fix the AI.

The Swedish summer holiday traditionally ends September 5th.

# ¿ Jul 24, 2016 22:53

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