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Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.


LGD posted:

hey, the gyrocopters are kind of like Dwarf cavalry

which is honestly one of the biggest issues I have with the Dwarfs, too much of their roster is locked away behind very inflexible Tier 4 and especially Tier 5 buildings, including most of the more interesting and game changing units, so you hardly get to play with them before you finish things up

The Dwarfs would probably benefit a lot from a turn timer reduction on the higher tier of buildings. Waiting 5-6 turns AFTER you had to wait for the proper growth means you get these units incredibly late in comparison to most. Like I had reikland almost maxed out by turn 60, whereas the Silver Road didn't quite finish until like turn 90.

This includes my tier 4 settlements though, which admitted eat up even more growth time. That being said, Reikland was almost maxed out by turn 60, with the same tier 4s.

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Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

THE CODEX NERDSTARTES DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR NIETZSCHEAN SUPERMEN ARTWORK! SO SAYETH WE ALL! *fart*

Fun Shoe

Zephro posted:

They have priests in World of Warcraft too, why no Warrior Priest for Dorfs CA?

I wonder if they also complain about Chaos and VC having no ranged or Orcs having no ability to spread corruption or whether they ever actually figure out that this is a feature rather than a bug.

Amusingly, fluff-wise, I could totally see an eccentric dorf becoming a Priest of Sigmar. I mean, Sigmar's a right, proper Ancestor God, just one for manlings.

xthetenth
Dec 30, 2012

Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.



Fangz posted:

Oh alright. Personally I just don't build up more than two to three provinces beyond rank 3. Heck I even delay the rank 3 settlement upgrade (except on frontiers where I need the garrison) until I have a rank 2 weaver in every single city. I get the sense that's probably the best build in terms of return on investment. Anyway ultimately I don't see a lot of difference. Worth pointing out that the 2-city provinces near the Empire correspond to two-city factions, which enables a number of limited wars for you.

I think VCs are the only ones that really benefit from a tall province as much or more than wide ones.

Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.


Triskelli posted:

And I can't tell you how many times I've seen people bemoaning that in casual surfing, and usually mentioning the mountain goats you saw Dwarves riding on in the Hobbit.


The Tabletop Rangers are both of these things though.

Yeah I read up and saw that, but more crossbows is kinda boring and throwing axes have a unique feel to them as dwarfs, as well as range limitations that make them not just another ranged unit.

By running fast and throwing some decently strong axes at things they actually feel unique. The Dwarfs absolutely lack a skirmishing force, and this can fill that role without being outlandish, like riding rams. I probably would give them vanguard deployment anyway.

It was probably Wargame that did this to me, but I really don't like units added for the sake of "options" because it feels kinda weird and wasteful if you have 4 units that end up doing the same thing slightly different. If you can add units that add or change a unit dynamic without messing up the feel of the faction, that's greatly preferable.

Mazz fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2016 around 19:13

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Rakthar posted:

3. VC. So people keep suggesting them and I'm a little bit confused. No artillery, so sieges are always the hard way. No ranged units. Flyers are awesome but just a touch fiddly in terms of how to use. Corruption requires work from the building side and agent side, and when you're done applying it you just stop taking penalties. Cities with insufficient corruption take a -8 morale penalty so conquering into uncorrupted / poorly corrupted lands is real tough. Your territory is the balkans of the map and is the crossroads for everyone with some chokepoints dumping armies right into your territory. You have no movement modes other than normal which means your flying undead counts will have to patiently wait a turn to build a raft to ford the river so they can kill an invading army. This pissed me off, a lot. Anywhere you go without corruption you take attrition. During sieges you will typically be taking attrition. Raise dead is bugged for about 50% of players and only displays 0 corpses no matter what happened. Magic is very binary with things like Soul Leech / Fate of Bjuna being amazing and the rest lovely. Necromancers are terrible but vamps are great. As VC you will want to secure your starting two provinces then figure out which human factions to expand against until chaos comes. You can trade, but in a fun quirk nobody wants to trade with you.

Sieges with VC generally boil down to "swamp the walls with infinite chaff that you don't care whether it lives or dies in the slightest before sending your vampire(s) in to mop up the exhausted survivors" in the early game. By mid game you've transitioned to "send your Royal Air Force onto and over the walls to slaughter all of their missile troops while your monsters bash down their front gate 2000x faster than a battering ram could ever hope to and you eat everyone inside". I don't really consider either of those the hard way. Corruption attrition is fiddly until you realize that you don't take attrition while in raiding stance and you don't take attrition while you're actively sieging a city, which basically means you raid your way across uncorrupted territory until you capture a town and then the area doesn't attrition you anymore.

I can't speak for Raise Dead being bugged because it doesn't happen to me, but when it's working it's hands down the most bonkers crazy broken ability in the entire game. You can snap your fingers and poo poo out an entire 20 stack of units ranging from zombies to terrorgheists in one turn, instantly, in enemy territory, and the units will be able to move and attack that turn. All it takes is a shitload of bodies in a province, and the northern Imperial provinces tend to turn into gigantic corpse wagons when Chaos hits because of all the fighting between the invaders and the northern Imperial provinces. You can quite literally drown the Storm of Chaos in corpses.

Soul Leech and Fate of Bjuna are the two big whammy magic spells, but that doesn't mean the other spells are useless. Vampires has some great stuff. Invocation of Nehek is a super powerful heal, Danse Macabre is actually a pretty insane buff, Gaze of Nagash can cause tons of casualties fireball style if you spike it into flanks, etc. Necromancer heroes are fine, it's just the lords who are bad choices, and that doesn't loving matter because you have the best lords in the entire game in Vampire Lords.

LGD
Sep 25, 2004



Mazz posted:

The Dwarfs would probably benefit a lot from a turn timer reduction on the higher tier of buildings. Waiting 5-6 turns AFTER you had to wait for the proper growth means you get these units incredibly late in comparison to most. Like I had reikland almost maxed out by turn 60, whereas the Silver Road didn't quite finish until like turn 90.

This includes my tier 4 settlements though, which admitted eat up even more growth time. That being said, Reikland was almost maxed out by turn 60, with the same tier 4s.

I had more or less the same experience in my game, which given that I won the short campaign on turn 98 (and long campaign not long thereafter when I resettled the northern Dwarfholds and made an extra alliance) didn't really leave me time to build the cool units or anyone to use them on if I had

The extra settlement in the Reikland made hitting tier 4 significantly faster and you basically just need that + menagerie to unlock all of your core units, which you can likely do in the 40's- you've still got some fun gimmicks to look forward to but nothing that's going to dramatically change how you play, and army composition is more a matter of economics where you can make considered tradeoffs than needing to wait X turns while your resources just pile up

LGD fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2016 around 19:20

Triskelli
Sep 26, 2011

I AM A SKELETON
WITH VERY HIGH
STANDARDS


Mazz posted:

Yeah I read up and saw that, but more crossbows is kinda boring and throwing axes have a unique feel to them as dwarfs, as well as range limitations that make them not just another ranged unit.

I like Crossbows from a fluffy perspective (these guys are rugged survivalists that carry great-axes, shields, throwing axes, hand axes, and crossbows) but I agree that throwing axes are the most unique thing about them.

Another thing that's missing is that Ironbreakers can replace their shields with a brace of "drakefire" pistols. Admittedly pistols were garbage on the tabletop and they're garbage in TW:WH so far, but I hope something's done to make them more effective in future.

John Charity Spring
Nov 3, 2009

ACTIVATE THE QUEEN


Kanos posted:

Invocation of Nehek is a super powerful heal

For real. I spent an entire battle suicide-charging Black Knights into enemies before bringing them out of the fight with about 15 knights out of 60 remaining, then a single Invocation of Nehek would bring them up to 60 knights and full health again. It's actually an incredibly good spell.

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

Triskelli posted:

I like Crossbows from a fluffy perspective (these guys are rugged survivalists that carry great-axes, shields, throwing axes, hand axes, and crossbows) but I agree that throwing axes are the most unique thing about them.

Another thing that's missing is that Ironbreakers can replace their shields with a brace of "drakefire" pistols. Admittedly pistols were garbage on the tabletop and they're garbage in TW:WH so far, but I hope something's done to make them more effective in future.

For Ironbreakers, there's the issue of when would you ever rather have pistols (no matter how buffed) instead of blasting charges? They don't need more short range anti-charge damage. But I do agree that pistols need buffing, Pistoliers are absolute garbage

Damn Dirty Ape
Jan 23, 2015


Mazz posted:

Ehhhh I question that my T4 minor mod makes any kind of difference to difficulty. All it does is allow you to build a couple buildings in provinces outside your capital, all of which you could already build in your capital if you wanted. The turn timer and building costs are the same as a T4 major. The economy buff is pretty minor as empire doesn't even have tier 4 econ buildings and the dwarfs sure as gently caress don't need them to make a ton of money as it is.

Depending on the +% of income bonuses you get in a province it can give you quite a bit of extra money, but I agree that even without the T4 settlements the dwarfs should not have too much trouble earning money, especially with unique buildings like the brighstone mine in Mt. Gunbad (1500 income a turn, just incredible). T4 also lets you build the top tier public order buildings (or technically the better growth buildings, but I see no reason to ever invest that highly in growth anyway).

On one hand I often get annoyed by the building limitations and want to install that mod to open up my recruiting options, but on the other I realize it sort of forces some interesting decisions and allows me to change up my playstyle from game to game to help keep things fresh. For example in my orc campaign I currently have to choose between trolls & giants, wolves & spiders, or big 'un boar boyz & chariots. If I had T4 buildings I could build all 4 without losing anything since I would be able to get the giant spider and big 'un boars in any settlement.

However as far as your mod is concerned, as long as the AI can also build T4 buildings in settlements the recruiting thing should balance out, it just might help factions like the dwarfs a bit more since they have a T4 money building option that the Empire and Orcs don't have (I have yet to play VC so I'm not sure about them).

Damn Dirty Ape fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2016 around 19:28

Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.


Triskelli posted:

I like Crossbows from a fluffy perspective (these guys are rugged survivalists that carry great-axes, shields, throwing axes, hand axes, and crossbows) but I agree that throwing axes are the most unique thing about them.

Another thing that's missing is that Ironbreakers can replace their shields with a brace of "drakefire" pistols. Admittedly pistols were garbage on the tabletop and they're garbage in TW:WH so far, but I hope something's done to make them more effective in future.

Yeah, basically the idea in my head is they run around at ~45 which is 1.5 regular infantry speed like Slayers, with 30-40 armor (leather) and mediocre melee stats, but 5-6 volleys of throwing axes that do like 25 AP and 15 regular damage baseline. Basically, if they get behind the infantry line, they can just pelt motherfuckers with axes, like a phantom cav charge. They'd only have 45-55 range like marauder throwing axes though, so a real ranged unit is still a problem for them (but they can run those motherfuckers down).

I'd tie them to a new miltary support building in provinces with lumber, something like "Hunting Grounds", since the dwarfs get very little from timber as it is. Maybe throw a quarreler xp boost there trait in there too.

Mazz fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2016 around 19:27

Damn Dirty Ape
Jan 23, 2015


This mod also looks like it has promise (found on reddit)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...s/?id=698364760

It basically changes the color of your empire soldiers to match the region you recruited them in so they aren't all Reikland colors. I haven't tried it yet but I like mods that add a little bit more color to the game.

LGD
Sep 25, 2004



Kaza42 posted:

For Ironbreakers, there's the issue of when would you ever rather have pistols (no matter how buffed) instead of blasting charges? They don't need more short range anti-charge damage. But I do agree that pistols need buffing, Pistoliers are absolute garbage

They'd be OP as poo poo if their damage wasn't garbage though. How would Chaos as currently constituted (for example) possibly deal with a light cav unit that can shoot appreciable amounts of AP damage in a 360 degree circle?

ditty bout my clitty
May 28, 2011


Fun Shoe

The more I play vampire counts the more I realize that playing napoleon total quarrell as the stubby little dwarves sucks.

Fangz
Jul 5, 2007

Oh I see! This must be the Bad Opinion Zone!


drat Dirty Ape posted:

This mod also looks like it has promise (found on reddit)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...s/?id=698364760

It basically changes the color of your empire soldiers to match the region you recruited them in so they aren't all Reikland colors. I haven't tried it yet but I like mods that add a little bit more color to the game.

Does this mean you can't merge units built in different regions any more, though? Because that would suck.

Kimsemus
Dec 4, 2013

A peaceful land, a quiet people. That has always been my rule.


Toilet Rascal

Ilustforponydeath posted:

The more I play vampire counts the more I realize that playing napoleon total quarrell as the stubby little dwarves sucks.

VC in some ways are the most fun faction to play, hands down.

Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.


drat Dirty Ape posted:

Depending on the +% of income bonuses you get in a province it can give you quite a bit of extra money, but I agree that even without the T4 settlements the dwarfs should not have too much trouble earning money, especially with unique buildings like the brighstone mine in Mt. Gunbad (1500 income a turn, just incredible). T4 also lets you build the top tier public order buildings (or technically the better growth buildings, but I see no reason to ever invest that highly in growth anyway).

On one hand I often get annoyed by the building limitations and want to install that mod to open up my recruiting options, but on the other I realize it sort of forces some interesting decisions and allows me to change up my playstyle from game to game to help keep things fresh. For example in my orc campaign I currently have to choose between trolls & giants, wolves & spiders, or big 'un boar boyz & chariots. If I had T4 buildings I could build all 4 without losing anything since I would be able to get the giant spider and big 'un boars in any settlement.

However as far as your mod is concerned, as long as the AI can also build T4 buildings in settlements the recruiting thing should balance out, it just might help factions like the dwarfs a bit more since they have a T4 money building option that the Empire and Orcs don't have (I have yet to play VC so I'm not sure about them).

True, but in my Dwarf campaign, to put it in perspective, a fully fleshed out Mt Gunbad made more money than any of my other 4 town provinces, even with T4 settlement buildings. The income jump is there, but its not so much as to really be noticeable, unless you exploit it with heros like you mentioned, but the dwarfs really don't get much value from that. I was able to get the 60k income per turn achievement while 2/3s of my provinces were still only T3 minors. The Dwarfs just poo poo gold after a while.

I mostly agree about the added complexity of recruiting, my major complaint was it seems to want you to move armies around to build this perfect fighting force, moving from sector to sector. I found that process just ate up way too much loving time in my opinion, since you already have to wait so long for the dwarfs to get tech'd and built up to build those units in the first place. Getting the silver road maxed out wasn't too bad, but getting the other 3 provinces around it with the buff buildings in an attempt to build this perfect fighting force was loving tedious and awful, which drove me to make the mod in the first place.

Mazz fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2016 around 19:34

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

THE CODEX NERDSTARTES DOES NOT SUPPORT YOUR NIETZSCHEAN SUPERMEN ARTWORK! SO SAYETH WE ALL! *fart*

Fun Shoe

Kimsemus posted:

VC in some ways are the most fun faction to play, hands down.

ABC, Always Be Castlevania.

If only they were proper draculas still.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



Can I get some advice on the Sliver Slash battle? So many forsaken reinforcements just wear down my Warriors and chosen to nothing by the end.

DiHK
Feb 4, 2013



Kimsemus posted:


about Radious being good.


Naw man, it's poo poo.

1) By increasing morale across the board it completely unbalances the intended fight dynamics. Fear/terror effects don't work properly, low tier chaff require 60%+ casualties to route, etc.

2) Everybody's economy gets a boost so there's more armies and more fights (that last forever) but it's really just cranking the dial to 11.

3) Magic is almost pointless because of the combat changes.

Radious uses a ~warhammer~ when he should be using a scalpel. There are artful ways to achieve longer fights that don't make for boring meat grinders. For example the Proper Combat Mod does a much better job of extending combat withonly a few across the board changes and a variety of small tweaks.

CA did an incredible job with unit balance this go-round; there's only a few units that could be called broken and even then it's not a deal breaker.

Look; it's your game, play how you want. However, your opinion is Bad.

Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.


Hmmm, so I'm fleshing out the settlements mod, and theres a table about downgrading settlements... for some reason only bretonnia and VC actually have a downgrade path to the previous settlement level. Every other faction does not, they just stay at the same settlement level.

That's loving weird. I wonder if it has to do with sacking provinces and removing garrisons? Why is it only brt and VC? What the gently caress, CA?

Wallet you were always better at this than me, any ideas?

Xae
Jan 19, 2005



Kimsemus posted:

VC in some ways are the most fun faction to play, hands down.

I always find VC a bit of a slog.

You've got a single strategy you can execute.

At least with other factions I can build armies for different tactics instead of executing the same one over and over again.

DiHK posted:

CA did an incredible job with unit balance this go-round; there's only a few units that could be called broken and even then it's not a deal breaker.
Unit wise balance is pretty good.

Demigryph Knights are probably going to get the poo poo nerfed out of them, justifiably so.

The next biggest issue is Quarrelers, but even that isn't a huge one. They're very good and very easy to use, but they do fall off pretty hard against armor.

Legendary Lord, Magic and Agent balance is all over the place though.

Xae fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2016 around 20:09

unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012

THUNDERDOME LOSER

Arglebargle III posted:

Can I get some advice on the Sliver Slash battle? So many forsaken reinforcements just wear down my Warriors and chosen to nothing by the end.

Hey, I just finished this battle. My composition was a core of the 3 chosen variants, 2 chaos spawn, 1 drogres, 2 marauder cav, and 2 poison dogs, along with sigvald and a fire wizard.

The meat and potatoes of it is you need to kill those two hellcannons ASAP. I found a couple of fireballs worked best for this as they'll destroy the cannons themselves, meaning you don't have to kill the (unbreakable) crew and you don't have to risk your cav. In my case, I tried sending my marauders over first, this turned out to be a winning move for reasons I'll explain. At any rate, both forsaken armies started chasing my cav across the map, but the hounds went straight for my main force. I killed the war hounds with a combination of monsters, my own hounds, and infantry. (It's at this point I used the fireballs against the hellcannons, as some of the crew had come back). Right after this the forsaken finally killed/routed the marauders. They were out of position, and ended up attacking my line in waves, which allowed me to squeeze out a narrow victory.

Short version: Take out the arty and use some light cav to harass the enemy before they engage and prevent them from bumrushing you all at the same time.

DiHK
Feb 4, 2013



Xae posted:

I always find VC a bit of a slog.

You've got a single strategy you can execute.

At least with other factions I can build armies for different tactics instead of executing the same one over and over again.

It's 3 strategies:

Zerg with chaff

Zerg with Vamps

Zerg with Monsters

I like a combination of 1 & 3 where you take a Vamp hero, a Vamp Champ and few Elite units out and march them just past your corruption zone to the first vulnerable capital. Take the capital, heal up and make some high walls.

I find it very satisfying.

Edit:

Xae posted:

Demigryph Knights are probably going to get the poo poo nerfed out of them, justifiably so.

The next biggest issue is Quarrelers, but even that isn't a huge one. They're very good and very easy to use, but they do fall off pretty hard against armor.

Legendary Lord, Magic and Agent balance is all over the place though.

Exactly

Demigryphs are the main culprit, I don't think anybody is complaining about Quarrelers as they are the intended DPS for dwarves. If anything I think they may address Thunderers/imperial gunners for their lack luster performance.

Magic is the second biggest issue with no scaling and VC being a bit broken against single targets. Vamps may be tones down in a general sense.

I don't think they'll touch agents at all. They haven't in the past.

Because they've never touched agents I don't think they'll touch LL's either (except to buff underperformers maybe). Those guys are intended to be badass.

DiHK fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2016 around 20:24

Damn Dirty Ape
Jan 23, 2015


Mazz posted:

True, but in my Dwarf campaign, to put it in perspective, a fully fleshed out Mt Gunbad made more money than any of my other 4 town provinces, even with T4 settlement buildings. The income jump is there, but its not so much as to really be noticeable, unless you exploit it with heros like you mentioned, but the dwarfs really don't get much value from that. I was able to get the 60k income per turn achievement while 2/3s of my provinces were still only T3 minors. The Dwarfs just poo poo gold after a while.

I mostly agree about the added complexity of recruiting, my major complaint was it seems to want you to move armies around to build this perfect fighting force, moving from sector to sector. I found that process just ate up way too much loving time in my opinion, since you already have to wait so long for the dwarfs to get tech'd and built up to build those units in the first place. Getting the silver road maxed out wasn't too bad, but getting the other 3 provinces around it with the buff buildings in an attempt to build this perfect fighting force was loving tedious and awful, which drove me to make the mod in the first place.

Yeah, it does get tedious trying to use the new fun stuff in your main armies, especially as they get further from your home territory (this is one of the more fun parts about playing chaos imo, you can instantly recruit fun new stuff wherever you happen to be at the time). Global recruiting helps a little, but some units take FOREVER to build that way (like 6 turns for a black orc unit, ouch).

Triskelli
Sep 26, 2011

I AM A SKELETON
WITH VERY HIGH
STANDARDS


Kaza42 posted:

For Ironbreakers, there's the issue of when would you ever rather have pistols (no matter how buffed) instead of blasting charges? They don't need more short range anti-charge damage. But I do agree that pistols need buffing, Pistoliers are absolute garbage

The hilarious thing is that the brace of pistols doesn't/wouldn't replace the blasting charges, but the Ironbreaker's shield. I don't even know how you would deal with that much fire coming downrange.

Honestly though my solution to how wimpy pistols feel so far in the game would be to up the inaccuracy and the damage (because I don't know if damage falloff is modeled). Pistoleers might be worthwhile as an intense micro unit if you had to turn off Skirmish and get them close enough to jam their pistols up the opponent's nose for appreciable armor-piercing damage.

Kaza42
Oct 3, 2013

Blood and Souls and all that

Triskelli posted:

The hilarious thing is that the brace of pistols doesn't/wouldn't replace the blasting charges, but the Ironbreaker's shield. I don't even know how you would deal with that much fire coming downrange.

Honestly though my solution to how wimpy pistols feel so far in the game would be to up the inaccuracy and the damage (because I don't know if damage falloff is modeled). Pistoleers might be worthwhile as an intense micro unit if you had to turn off Skirmish and get them close enough to jam their pistols up the opponent's nose for appreciable armor-piercing damage.

I know that it's not at all how they are on the tabletop, but I would love to see more historical pistoleers. Heavily armored shock cavalry that charges in, shoots, then charges out again to repeat. Super high charge bonus, but very low melee stats or something like that.

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



drat Dirty Ape posted:

This mod also looks like it has promise (found on reddit)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil...s/?id=698364760

It basically changes the color of your empire soldiers to match the region you recruited them in so they aren't all Reikland colors. I haven't tried it yet but I like mods that add a little bit more color to the game.

They're all Talebheim colors IIRC. Reikland has some blue in there.

Captain Beans
Aug 5, 2004

Whar be the beans?

There was some talk about camera mods and how they can cause crashing, however the in game 'debug camera mode' gives you the same unrestricted camera - and avoids crashes and keeps multiplayer compatibility.


C:\Users\YOURUSERNAME\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Warhammer\scripts

And in preferences.script change the line

default_camera_type # (starts as 1 or 0)

to

default_camera_type 2

KnoxZone
Jan 26, 2007

If I die before I Wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take.


VC may have all the cool flying beasts, broken vampires, spooky ghost units, and millions of zombies, but in the end there is nothing that will carry you like a good Grave Guard.



Fight would have been a lot easier, except Kemmler entered at like 300 hp from a previous auto-resolve, so I didn't dare have him use any overcharged invocations.

Of course the Varg still have 7 stacks in Kislev against my two (rip third stack which sacrificed itself to end the Chaos invasion).

KnoxZone fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2016 around 20:42

Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.


Triskelli posted:

The hilarious thing is that the brace of pistols doesn't/wouldn't replace the blasting charges, but the Ironbreaker's shield. I don't even know how you would deal with that much fire coming downrange.

Honestly though my solution to how wimpy pistols feel so far in the game would be to up the inaccuracy and the damage (because I don't know if damage falloff is modeled). Pistoleers might be worthwhile as an intense micro unit if you had to turn off Skirmish and get them close enough to jam their pistols up the opponent's nose for appreciable armor-piercing damage.

Well in the files in would replace the blasting charges because they only get 1 melee and 1 ranged weapon option in the tables. The shield is just an aura effect added in a different part, even if you removed it from the variantmesh, which is the graphic for the unit.

Wallet
Jun 19, 2006



Mazz posted:

Hmmm, so I'm fleshing out the settlements mod, and theres a table about downgrading settlements... for some reason only bretonnia and VC actually have a downgrade path to the previous settlement level. Every other faction does not, they just stay at the same settlement level.

That's loving weird. I wonder if it has to do with sacking provinces and removing garrisons? Why is it only brt and VC? What the gently caress, CA?

Wallet you were always better at this than me, any ideas?

You'd have to test it but I wouldn't be surprised if that table was bullshit; there's a gently caress-load of tables that do absolutely nothing, that are relics from past games or aborted mechanics or whatever—there's still one in there defining artillery models for howitzers and poo poo. It's possible that you could once downgrade your own buildings or something and they axed it, so those junctions are no longer required. Edit: I wouldn't be surprised if some earlier version still had squalor-esque mechanics so being able to downgrade was actually required, where-as everything is a strict upgrade now. The downgrade junctions only show up for those two factions, but everyone does have upgrades from ruins to a tier one capital building, so it isn't as if the ruined versions don't exist for them.

Wallet fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2016 around 20:48

Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.


Wallet posted:

You'd have to test it but I wouldn't be surprised if that table was bullshit; there's a gently caress-load of tables that do absolutely nothing, that are relics from past games or aborted mechanics or whatever—there's still one in there defining artillery models for howitzers and poo poo. It's possible that you could once downgrade your own buildings or something and they axed it, so those junctions are no longer required. The downgrade junctions only show up for those two factions, but everyone does have upgrades from ruins to a tier one capital building, so it isn't as if the ruined versions don't exist for them.

Yeah I changed the scheme for my dwarf building to see if it let you demolish down a level, like Attila, but it did nothing at all. At this point I just copied their scheme and left it alone.

It really is funny seeing database tables from shogun 2 mixed in though, like god drat get it together over there.

Ravenfood
Nov 4, 2011


Kanos posted:

I can't speak for Raise Dead being bugged because it doesn't happen to me, but when it's working it's hands down the most bonkers crazy broken ability in the entire game. You can snap your fingers and poo poo out an entire 20 stack of units ranging from zombies to terrorgheists in one turn, instantly, in enemy territory, and the units will be able to move and attack that turn. All it takes is a shitload of bodies in a province, and the northern Imperial provinces tend to turn into gigantic corpse wagons when Chaos hits because of all the fighting between the invaders and the northern Imperial provinces. You can quite literally drown the Storm of Chaos in corpses.
It being bugged for me really sucked because I'd planned on pissing off a ton of people, sending out hordes of chaff at everyone and everything, and basically just drowning my/their lands in corpses and blood. It, uh, didn't work out so well for me. There is a marker down near where Stirland and the Schwartzhafen vampire clan went at it, but 2500+ deaths in a single field battle gets me nothing. Casualties still 0.


Kaza42 posted:

I know that it's not at all how they are on the tabletop, but I would love to see more historical pistoleers. Heavily armored shock cavalry that charges in, shoots, then charges out again to repeat. Super high charge bonus, but very low melee stats or something like that.
I'd love to see this too, and was kind of hoping either Outriders or Pistoliers would fill the relatively rare role of light/medium shock cavalry with some limited skirmishing ability.

Anyhow: Athel Loren and Skavenblight are both in the map, but really small. Any chance that that's not only a sign that they're going to be implemented pretty quickly in expac cylce, but also that their province mechanics might be different from the factions in this game?

e:

drat Dirty Ape posted:

Yeah, it does get tedious trying to use the new fun stuff in your main armies, especially as they get further from your home territory (this is one of the more fun parts about playing chaos imo, you can instantly recruit fun new stuff wherever you happen to be at the time). Global recruiting helps a little, but some units take FOREVER to build that way (like 6 turns for a black orc unit, ouch).
If global recruitment didn't have double cost, double time, and negate all of your province bonuses, maybe I'd use it ever. At least have it pick from the best available province or something.

Ravenfood fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2016 around 20:47

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes

The VC experience is not at all a game of spooky scary skellingtons since Grave Guard are absolutely amazing. And since you start with the goldmine in Drakenhoff, money is hardly an issue as VCs.

I don't know why we can't get skellington archers tho

peer
Jan 17, 2004

this is not what I wanted

WHAT A GOOD DOG posted:

I don't know why we can't get skellington archers tho

Same reason you can't get black orcs with shields, or there aren't any high-tier Empire infantry, or you don't get gyrocopters until 60 turns in (or whatever): it's your faction's intentional weakness. I think there's a mod adding skeleton archers, if it bothers you.

Also, (probably) partially to further accentuate the differences between the Counts and the to-be-added Tomb Kings, which are also skeletons but have a whole lot of ranged.

Mordja
Apr 26, 2014



peer posted:

Also, (probably) partially to further accentuate the differences between the Counts and the to-be-added Tomb Kings, which are also skeletons but have a whole lot of ranged.
About that; what are the Tomb Kings' specialty, anyway? Or are they an all-rounder faction like the Empire?

Arglebargle III
Feb 21, 2006



Yeah it's because skelton archers are the Egyptian thing.

I hope they extend the decent balance to the rest of the factions. Warhammer the game is known for terrible balance, so you'd never see certain armies like Tomb Kings or Beastmen.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes

Skull-a-pults will be great fun, so at least I'm excited to see some skellington armies in the future throw stuff at people.

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Mazz
Dec 12, 2012

Orion, this is Sperglord Actual.
Come on home.


Their little DLC roadmap image thing included some new units, along with specialty units in the Legendary Lord packs. I hope we do see some cool stuff tacked on.

It seems like they got crafty this time too, they added the new Chaos stuff from the warrior pack in a new table, probably because they couldn't actually keep people from getting it otherwise. It'll be interesting to see how that works for the other factions and multiplayer, since before without the DLC they just had to lock out the faction. This time they have to be more specific.

Mazz fucked around with this message at Jun 8, 2016 around 21:05

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