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I can definitely understand why people in Cannes were shouting onanista and gently caress you Liv at the screen. I don't mind cinematic masturbation but it's not everyone's cup of tea.
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Jun 26, 2016 23:34
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If that's the case, what would you be doing at Cannes?
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Jun 27, 2016 00:01
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Dunno, free movies? Do you pay to be there or is do you get a free pass? Anyways, thinking about it, is there any real indication that Keanu Reeves is anything but a fine, upstanding citizen of LA? While it's implied that it's him who assaults the girl next door, isn't it more likely that it's the fashion witches eating her? The only scummy thing he does is blame the protagonist for leaving the door open and letting vermin in, which to be fair is a lovely thing to do as a tenant. He does hilariously take the piss out of the pedo boyfriend by telling him about an even younger girl he could prey on, and fucks him out of a lot of money that he would otherwise spend on trying to have sex with children.
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Jun 27, 2016 00:21
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In all honesty, this is what should've played over the end credits. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsVD1FBajvY
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Jun 27, 2016 03:09
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IM_DA_DECIDER posted:Anyways, thinking about it, is there any real indication that Keanu Reeves is anything but a fine, upstanding citizen of LA? While it's implied that it's him who assaults the girl next door, isn't it more likely that it's the fashion witches eating her? The only scummy thing he does is blame the protagonist for leaving the door open and letting vermin in, which to be fair is a lovely thing to do as a tenant. He does hilariously take the piss out of the pedo boyfriend by telling him about an even younger girl he could prey on, and fucks him out of a lot of money that he would otherwise spend on trying to have sex with children. Uh, the whole knife/throat scene??
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Jun 27, 2016 03:30
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PopZeus posted:Uh, the whole knife/throat scene?? That was a nightmare she had before someone tried to get into her room, no?
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Jun 27, 2016 03:36
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PopZeus posted:Uh, the whole knife/throat scene??
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Jun 27, 2016 03:43
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Josh Lyman posted:My only complaint coming out of the film was a disconnect between movie time and real time. Jesse definitely seemed like an ingenue at the beginning, but her transformation, specifically in that scene where she shruggs off her "boyfriend" at the restaurant, seemed to happen too quickly from the viewer's perspective, like there needed to be 15 minutes of scenes in between. Well, she's innocent about certain things, but she isn't quite so naive as to think that it matters who she is on the inside. She tells him as much earlier when they go on a drive and are on the bluff overlooking the city: she says she can't dance or sing, but is pretty, and she call sell pretty; he tells her that he bets she's good at lots of stuff – romanticizing this girl because he can't accept that all he cares is that she's young and beautiful – and she tells him that he doesn't know her. There's still plenty she's isn't prepared for, but ditching that dipshit for someone who will admit he just cares what she looks like is well set up. That, at least, is a degree of maturity/cynicism she came to town already equipped with.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:35
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Josh Lyman posted:My only complaint coming out of the film was a disconnect between movie time and real time. Jesse definitely seemed like an ingenue at the beginning, but her transformation, specifically in that scene where she shruggs off her "boyfriend" at the restaurant, seemed to happen too quickly from the viewer's perspective, like there needed to be 15 minutes of scenes in between. I don't think she'd have aimed to get into modeling to begin with if she didn't already have a certain level of narcissism. But yeah, the part where she encounters the titular Neon Demon is definitely her "falling to the dark side" moment.
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Jun 27, 2016 04:57
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Anal Surgery posted:edit: Question about the last 20 minutes of the film: Ruby's last scene in the film is basically her submitting herself to the Moon (wisdom, the divine feminine, whatever) and then she spreads her legs and is... giving birth? Menstruating? I know Moon and Menses are a theme but what did you all take that scene to signify/imply/evoke? I took that to be her way of rejecting Jesse's blood like the other girl did later, but since she genuinely loved her it was a quiet meditative moment rather then a painful attack.
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Jun 27, 2016 13:47
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Hellbunny posted:I took that to be her way of rejecting Jesse's blood like the other girl did later, but since she genuinely loved her it was a quiet meditative moment rather then a painful attack. "Genuinely loved" seems a bit strong for someone she murders in cold blood. I took it more as Gigi and Sarah attempting for a form of stasis, to be forever young, while Ruby is on a more natural cycle. She unabashedly loved Jesse's youth and was satisfied to have that pass through her, without trying to retain it. Hence Ruby's association with the moon, which waxes and wanes, while the others strive to be the sun.
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Jun 27, 2016 18:29
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Sir Kodiak posted:"Genuinely loved" seems a bit strong for someone she murders in cold blood. Yeah, I wondered for a while if she always intended to kill and eat Jessie, or only decided to do it after her advances were rejected. Ultimately I decided it was beside the point, she always intended to consume her, whether it was to be figuratively or literally was almost an afterthought. It didn't matter if she was sex or food, in this movie's universe they're the same thing.
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Jun 27, 2016 18:53
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General Dog posted:Yeah, I wondered for a while if she always intended to kill and eat Jessie, or only decided to do it after her advances were rejected. Ultimately I decided it was beside the point, she always intended to consume her, whether it was to be figuratively or literally was almost an afterthought. It didn't matter if she was sex or food, in this movie's universe they're the same thing. Yeah, exactly.
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Jun 27, 2016 19:01
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Josh Lyman posted:But then what makes her different from any other 16-year-old model? The elements of witchcraft are fun, but I don't see anything redemptive or holy about what Ruby does to Jesse. Everyone around Jesse sees beauty as a commodity, something that can be bought, sold, traded, lost, or consumed in various ways; Ruby's not an exception. The Designer is just the one who articulates the ugly worldview of the film's characters. Josh Lyman posted:My only complaint coming out of the film was a disconnect between movie time and real time. Jesse definitely seemed like an ingenue at the beginning, but her transformation, specifically in that scene where she shruggs off her "boyfriend" at the restaurant, seemed to happen too quickly from the viewer's perspective, like there needed to be 15 minutes of scenes in between.
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Jun 27, 2016 19:01
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Josh Lyman posted:My only complaint coming out of the film was a disconnect between movie time and real time. Jesse definitely seemed like an ingenue at the beginning, but her transformation, specifically in that scene where she shruggs off her "boyfriend" at the restaurant, seemed to happen too quickly from the viewer's perspective, like there needed to be 15 minutes of scenes in between. I think she only ever valued him for the attention he gave her. The second she found a much more potent, gratifying form of attention, he was disposable. His praise, his eyes, his camera, they were amateur hour. She's in the big leagues now.
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Jun 27, 2016 19:39
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Am I the only one who took the mentions of her parents being non-entities and Jessie talking about how her mother said she was dangerous as a potential build-up to Jessie being some sinister person the whole time, and maybe revealing she killed her own parents? Maybe it was only because of how quickly she made the turn to The Demon side and how she had those weird precognitions but I thought right up til the climax that we'd have a reveal that there was something not quite right about her, even beforehand. The ending was alright but I was left feeling deflated at how stupid Jessie was, acting like an rear end in a top hat after the pool scene and then just getting hosed up for it. She treated the others like poo poo but never expected vengeance for it?
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Jun 27, 2016 19:55
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I'm not well versed on witchcraft. What else could be considered to be in that category other than the cannibalism thing? I really enjoyed the visuals and the score was goddamn amazing. The Sun / Moon imagery was very interesting. And is cannibalism something that witches practice or something? hosed up if true.
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Jun 27, 2016 19:56
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Also I can't believe someone hasn't snyped a page yet with... "There's some hard candy in the room next door." "I'm talking about some real Lolita poo poo, bro."  It really couldn't have been anyone other than Keanu Reeves to deliver those lines. I lost it.
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Jun 27, 2016 19:59
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THORIUM posted:I'm not well versed on witchcraft. What else could be considered to be in that category other than the cannibalism thing? I really enjoyed the visuals and the score was goddamn amazing. The Sun / Moon imagery was very interesting. Witches live in weird giallo houses.
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Jun 27, 2016 20:38
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MinibarMatchman posted:Am I the only one who took the mentions of her parents being non-entities and Jessie talking about how her mother said she was dangerous as a potential build-up to Jessie being some sinister person the whole time, and maybe revealing she killed her own parents? Maybe it was only because of how quickly she made the turn to The Demon side and how she had those weird precognitions but I thought right up til the climax that we'd have a reveal that there was something not quite right about her, even beforehand. MinibarMatchman posted:She treated the others like poo poo but never expected vengeance for it?
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Jun 27, 2016 20:58
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MinibarMatchman posted:Am I the only one who took the mentions of her parents being non-entities and Jessie talking about how her mother said she was dangerous as a potential build-up to Jessie being some sinister person the whole time, and maybe revealing she killed her own parents? Maybe it was only because of how quickly she made the turn to The Demon side and how she had those weird precognitions but I thought right up til the climax that we'd have a reveal that there was something not quite right about her, even beforehand. I was expecting a murdered her famil twist as well. I think in the end the point of her parents being dead just made her seem more vunerable, and that made her that much more appealing to the creeps surrounding her. As far as the ending, I don't think it's fair to expect Jessie to anticipate being murdered and eaten no matter how much of an rear end in a top hat she is.
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Jun 27, 2016 21:24
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THORIUM posted:Also I can't believe someone hasn't snyped a page yet with...  "
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Jun 27, 2016 22:49
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IM_DA_DECIDER posted:Dunno, free movies? Do you pay to be there or is do you get a free pass? You pay. It's an industry event so most likely your company pays, in which case you have some agenda on the books.
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Jun 27, 2016 23:37
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How much of this movie do you think was supposed to be literal vs metaphorical? The group I saw it with figured that from the point of the motel assault awards it was completely metaphorical. Maybe even earlier, after the runway show. No one actually got eaten, and there wasn't witchcraft going on. It was just a metaphor for what Hollywood/Girls will do for beauty/vanity. The idea that they actually ate her, makes the movie just kind of silly in my opinion. What do you guys make of the Neon Demon itself? Why that symbol? What did it mean? Why is that the movie title? Megasabin fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Jun 28, 2016 |
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Jun 28, 2016 05:13
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The Neon Demon is a recursion of pink triangles of light as an embodiment of feminine sexuality as something purely insubstantial. It's all appearance, no substance.Megasabin posted:How much of this movie do you think was supposed to be literal vs metaphorical? One hundred percent of it is both. They literally eat her as a metaphor for the way society consumes youth and beauty.
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Jun 28, 2016 05:26
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I gotta say, much like Only God Forgives before it (and to a lesser extent, Drive and Spring Breakers), no matter how you feel about the movie as a whole, you gotta admit that the score is loving killer. Cliff Martinez has gotta win an award for something one of these days, because he knocks it out of the park every time he's up.
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Jun 28, 2016 05:33
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This is a great first two acts of a movie, but I was disappointed by how small and unambitious the ending was. I was expecting something like Society, where all the pieces come together and it goes over the edge, but it took a weirdly safe route. The fairy tale tone is terrific, though, and the soundtrack just beats all, but the story is so plain.
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Jun 28, 2016 06:36
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All movies are 100% literal and metaphorical. Insisting that events don't actually happen in a movie is a weird loving cop out that I see too much with anything even vaguely weird. It's like the new "it was all just a dream".
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Jun 28, 2016 07:01
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Loki_XLII posted:All movies are 100% literal and metaphorical. Insisting that events don't actually happen in a movie is a weird loving cop out that I see too much with anything even vaguely weird. Of course what you see happens, but whether it's real or not is the question. If you deny that films use dream sequences or visual metaphors that are not actually part of the literal narrative, I'm not really sure what to tell you. I'm not at all insisting that's whats happening in this film, which is why I asked it as a question. Prior to the Neon Demon/runway scene, the movie was played pretty straight forward. Why would they physically want to eat her? Threaten her, hurt her, even kill her... sure, but physically devour her? I understand the metaphor, but how does that work on a literal level here? Other than the Ruby-Moon scene after, is there anything else at all the establishes a supernatural element to the film?
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Jun 28, 2016 07:56
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No, but who cares, that happens all the time in horror movies.
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Jun 28, 2016 07:57
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Megasabin posted:Of course what you see happens, but whether it's real or not is the question. If you deny that films use dream sequences or visual metaphors that are not actually part of the literal narrative, I'm not really sure what to tell you. I'm not at all insisting that's whats happening in this film, which is why I asked it as a question. Dream sequences literally happen. Dreams are a real phenomenon. Similarly, Jesse on the couch during Ruby's necrophilia scene isn't a presentation of what Jesse is doing in the diegesis, but it is a representation of what Jesse is imagining. I just don't know that the distinction between literal and metaphorical works as cleanly with film as it does with the written word due to differences in how the act of interpretation is performed.
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Jun 28, 2016 08:10
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Sir Kodiak posted:Dream sequences literally happen. Dreams are a real phenomenon. Similarly, Jesse on the couch during Ruby's necrophilia scene isn't a presentation of what Jesse is doing in the diegesis, but it is a representation of what Jesse is imagining. Literal was probably a poor word choice on my part. I meant to convey whether or not an event takes place physically vs. it is imagined/dreamed/abstracted.
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Jun 28, 2016 08:18
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Megasabin posted:Literal was probably a poor word choice on my part. I meant to convey whether or not an event takes place physically vs. it is imagined/dreamed/abstracted. What I would say is that the film is more concerned with its presentation of cannibalistic witches as a metaphor for the devouring of youth than it is the hypothetical nature of witchcraft as an objective phenomenon in the world. It's different than, like, The Last Witch Hunter, which devotes a decent chunk of its running time to the practical matter of witchcraft in a modern world, even if its war against witches does metaphorically represent some notion regarding the conflict between technology and nature or whatever. It's not a dream sequence per se, but the film itself is itself dream like in ways and does not, I think, reward significant consideration of the practicalities of its more outlandish elements. If you want to consider that portion of the film more metaphorical than literal, I don't think you're doing the film a disservice, even if, personally, the question of that distinction is not really how I approach things.
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Jun 28, 2016 08:37
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Still not sure why everyone is so sold on witchcraft having to do with anything here? Did they light a bunch of candles and make a ritualistic sacrifice? No. They just ate the girl.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:21
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I can't help but see witches because of all the connections to Bava and Argento's work.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:27
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In terms of explicit elements, rather than presentation, Ruby's menses is carrying a lot of weight.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:29
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THORIUM posted:Still not sure why everyone is so sold on witchcraft having to do with anything here? Did they light a bunch of candles and make a ritualistic sacrifice? No. They just ate the girl.
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Jun 28, 2016 16:29
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THORIUM posted:Still not sure why everyone is so sold on witchcraft having to do with anything here? Did they light a bunch of candles and make a ritualistic sacrifice? No. They just ate the girl. Jenna Malone gets naked and worships the moon and then releases an improbable torrent of blood from her vagina. Also she has a bunch of weird tats. They're on some weird poo poo. There's always a spiritual element to cannibalism. Who's ever heard of an atheist cannibal? General Dog fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Jun 28, 2016 |
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Jun 28, 2016 17:36
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I'm fairly certain Hannibal Lecter is an atheist.
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Jun 28, 2016 19:38
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THORIUM posted:Still not sure why everyone is so sold on witchcraft having to do with anything here? Did they light a bunch of candles and make a ritualistic sacrifice? No. They just ate the girl. it's easier to say witches rather than "just plain weirdos who do elizabeth bathory poo poo and have strange tats and worship the moon." when I think witchcraft in this movie it has more to do with the "cult" of beauty and desire stemming up than anything, though things do take on a more surreal light at the tail end.
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Jun 28, 2016 19:44
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