Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



ka-ching

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



MG3 posted:

Hey kash if your iq is less than 70 don't post at all for the next 3 hours

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



It's me, I am the Pinball Wizard

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



I mean, okay, random is random, I guess

##vote Jimson

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



this is not the twilight I signed up for

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Anomalous Amalgam posted:

Also there's a lot of lurkers.

To be honest I was waiting for a PM telling me what the result of my night action was to check this thread and y'all have put up like four pages of posts in the four hours I wasn't checking the thread.

I don't see a real need to turbo two days in a row but since as I recall you're the one who tried to build a case against my vote from yesterday, which I explained even as I was making it, I don't really see why I shouldn't just vote you now and be done with it.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



As lovely as I think AA's fit was, Nexus is both a plausible claim in this game and a really unlikely role to lie about having because I'd think a counterclaim would be highly likely.

I'd like to vote him out on principle but I just don't really see it.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Retro Futurist posted:

You think nexus is a role with a high chance of being counter claimed?

I'm saying in a redirection setup, where almost everyone has a redirection role, I would have been surprised if a nexus didn't exist. That said, if AA is claiming that's what he was, he would be stupid to fake-claim that because odds are very high that role would be in the game and could counter-claim.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Kashuno posted:

Nexus is not an inherently town role. Do you think AA is town and why?

I'd never heard of the Nexus role before I played this game. I was just looking at the wiki which seems to say it is.

If love to post my screenshot of that but Awful app is failing so you'll just have to look at the wiki yourself.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Your Personal Muse posted:

It can be scum or town and is actually an inherently scummy role

Literally the first sentence of the wiki says "A Nexus is a pro-town role"

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



I can see how it could be both, looking at it logically, but the wiki should probably be edited if so.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Allen Wren posted:

The main thing that's digging at me about day one is what I know about Jimson as scum, specifically Jimson disrespecting the flow of a game. I was gung-ho to punch his ticket, but I'm wondering if I got played, like, he knew people would be pretty okay with him being turboed because of his reputation. This obviously points the finger at YPM, but I'm not happy about that argument either.

Can you please elaborate a little more on what you mean by this? I'm not following.

You're saying you "got played" by going along with a successful turbo for town?

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Your Personal Muse posted:

Other than saying that Jake's case is straightforward, there doesn't seem to be an opinion on AA in your post history. What do you think of AA?

At this point of sounds like pretty much everyone buys AA's story that he is a one-shot nexus who used his power N1. The only question becomes alignment.

Based on the wiki I'm inclined to believe that makes him town. I'm also inclined to believe that based on his fit, actually- if he's one-shot and he already used it, then he doesn't have a lot left to contribute to the town game outside of votes and he's staring down the barrel of a lynch based on the current count and one or two others leaning that way at deadline.

If he was scum, on the other hand, even if he'd used his one-shot PR, he could still perform the night kill, right? I'd think he'd fight harder to stay alive rather than just saying "gently caress it, I'm out."

Maybe that's me reading too far into things and I fully admit being relatively new and having never been scum before, I might be misunderstanding- but that's my thinking, anyway.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



I do, however, still want to hear more from Allen Wren because that post left me with a lot more questions than answers. Especially after a re-read.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



JakeP posted:

you're an idiot



tpink posted:

Yeah, the reason I haven't posted any hard calls is because I haven't read anything that pings me hard enough to make a case for anyone at this point. I don't think you're scum because you are very actively participating, making cases, prompting people for reads, getting into it with AA and Kash, etc. - doesn't strike me as scum play. I think The Ninth Layer might be scum based on him going hard after AA yesterday, but a lot of this is just because I now think that AA is town. I think Li Dawny is suspicious - in games where she's scum, she tends to lurk, and she's barely posted anything here. I'm fine voting for her today just a lurker lynch and based on how I've seen her lurk as scum in other games.

That's all the hot reads I got for now.

I think Li Dawny's wound up being scum in like the last two or three games I've seen/read, but her play seemed different in those than in this one. You might have a better read than I, though. I'd be okay supporting this if we decide to go that direction.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



The Ninth Layer posted:

I'm on a phone and can't conveniently reread but I'd be happy with a vote on Allen Wren, agree with whoever said his vote on Magnus looked for scum searching for a suspicion rather than a real held suspicion. I also distrust lurkers who make big catch-up posts, it's the way that scum lurk: self-consciously.

I would also support this read too, since I don't recall seeing a response yet to my question to AW.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Kashuno posted:

this is bad. "Eh I don't have a scum read on her, but sure!!!"

Same justification I used for the vote on Jimson. Gonna tell me everyone had a scum read on him with zero posts?

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Kashuno posted:

We had no content to go on during the Jimson turbo. We have content to work with now.

hmmm yes let's look at li dawny's content this game

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



The point I was making was that her lack of content, according to tpink, reads scummy. I'm fine with that opinion if he knows her better than I.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Kashuno posted:

You clearly have enough content to judge her posting to be different this game so..?

Jesus, okay, I'll highlight it for you:

tpink posted:

I think Li Dawny is suspicious - in games where she's scum, she tends to lurk, and she's barely posted anything here.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)




Perhaps you should read the next line of my post.

Whatever, I'm done with this slapfight.

My votes today as things stand right now would be AW (if he doesn't come back and answer questions), Li Dawny (lurking), and Kashuno (being deliberately obtuse).

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Your Personal Muse posted:

I'm a watcher and I saw everyone except AA visit someone. I chose AW as my target since he started the turbo but I don't know if its him or not since I was redirected to the LR. I suppose its possible that literally everyone chose AW but seems unlikely.

I can verify my action from N1 did not target AW.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Your Personal Muse posted:

Of course you can't control it, but if you push for it than your intention becomes clear. Her intention was to both make a joke AND to actively push a Jimson lynch.

This makes a lot of sense, actually. Can't see her making that play as scum.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



MG3 posted:

If a scum joke voted a teammate and it gained traction, then what are they to do other than continue to push that lynch? They can't suddenly go against it without bringing suspicion upon themselves, so they go forward with it.

Seems like Jimson gets voted out pretty early most games, though, so that would not be the joke vote I'd make in her spot with Jimson on her team, theoretically.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Your Personal Muse posted:

Probably. Lurking isn't the term I would use to describe it, but if she had waited an hour or two before posting, it wouldn't look bad if she took the whole thing as a joke because by that time the steam would have probably ran out. She could have also just voted instead of doing the joke push, and hope that no one would be willing to have the "weight" of the hammer on them.

But that push allowed someone an easy way to hammer Jimson. If I'm remembering correctly, I think the last person hammered without mentioning Asiina but having someone you can "blame", even as town, makes hammering early alot easier.

Actually, if we're being technical, I'm pretty sure the hammering vote was mine, and we already went over my logic for that.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Asiina posted:

Oh hey, I'm out all day and now there's 250 posts.

I will catch up but I will not be able to post a single time tomorrow as it's Canada Day and I plan on being out and having fun.

Have a happy Canada Day

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Li Dawny, no worries, life happens and these are just games.

MG3 posted:

Its not relevant to this argument no, but it is relevant.


Pretend I "forgot" about your logic behind that vote would you mind restating it for me?

Sure.

I actually didn't realize my vote was the hammer when I made it, but it wouldn't have made much of a difference to me if I had known that.

That early in the game, I figured random was random and unlike other games I've been in, that turbo, or whatever you want to call it, seemed like it had a decent chance of succeeding. I'm not much for the joke-phase anyway because I really don't know how to read it well. I knew there were enough votes that if I threw my vote on the pile it had a decent chance of success and absent any other info, I figured we'd get the day over with, see how the whole re-direction thing shook out, and perhaps we'd get lucky and catch a scum. Rightly or wrongly, my opinion of Jimson based on the games I've seen led me to believe we weren't really losing a strong player either way so I didn't mind making the vote.

Also, FYI, I'm at the Mariners game this evening so I won't have much of a chance to check in until later, other than the next few minutes.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Your Personal Muse posted:

IS seemed awfully worried about a vote no one really cares that much about

I was asked to explain. I explained. I'm not the least bit worried about that vote.

It caught scum, why would I be worried about it?

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Allen Wren never came back after that weird long post yesterday, and never answered my question or others about it.

Let's see if a vote encourages him.

##vote Allen Wren

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Allen Wren posted:

I am bad at having time to play (basically because of my schedule I can only read/post for a few minutes in the afternoon and then in the late late night when no one else is around, because I sleep in the day and work in the evening) and I have asked for a replacement. However, the replacement is not going to have my knowledge of what I did night one because they won't have my PMs.

And YPM's testimony here is useless, if not lies because of the nature of the game. He thinks he was looking at me. He was not looking at me.

I am a flipper, a basic redirector. I redirect one player's action to another. I redirected RF at Asiina last night because they were the first two names to pop into my head.

And now I have to go to work. Bleah.

Catching up on the last four pages but ##unvote based on that flavor claim because the flavor and role he claimed match mine. I now believe he's actually town.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Night 1 I redirected actions targeting dongs to LD.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Going back to respond to this as best I can.

Your Personal Muse posted:

This is IS's vote on Jimson. In a vacuum its fine. But he then proceeds to be ultra self-conscious about it. In fact the thing that keeps setting me off about IS is that he is super self-conscious about people questioning his actions.

I'm not self-conscious; I just try to respond if I'm brought up in conversation. I haven't had a ton of time to pay attention to everything back-and-forth but I try not to let things go ignored.


This was in response to a general callout on lurkers by AA and a case that AA had made on his vote that amounted to "LOOK AT THIS VOTE" with no case behind it and subsequently abandoned. Scum generally tend to be paranoid and think that there is alot more heat on them than there is (which I believe I already said in this game). He put that "random is random" thing up there as an explanation? Its a loving turbo on a scum and he is worried about a case that is already old at that point that no one is worried about. It just doesn't seem like a town mentality to be super worried about what people think about his hammering vote on a scum.

Same explanation as above. I was asked why I voted the way I did; I responded. Why is that scummy?


This was the general attitude he had toward AA. There are very few times if any he talked about AA's play and instead focused on the validity of his claim, even past the point that people cared. He looked at the wiki that said Nexus is town and stuck with that. Its hard when scum have to case someone's gameplay, so if they can hide behind analyzing claims or mechanics, thats so much easier for them.

No, I stuck with the wiki because like I said before I had no knowledge of that role before playing this game- and when the loving wiki says "Nexus is a pro-town role" I tended to believe it. I'm really tired of defending that argument especially considering everyone except you has dropped that already.



Here IS is putting the burden of a case on someone else. While I will admit that sometimes I trust other people's opinion more than mine when it comes to meta, that is when I literally never played with that person as that particular alignment. It seems weird that someone has a different opinion as him about a scum meta when IS admits that he had played with LD when LD was scum and he goes with that person instead of his opinion. Seems like an easy way for scum to lynch someone without taking the blame.

IS did not vote LD, which couple with the above paragraph, suggests that IS was waiting for someone else to start the vote train on LD so IS could have a guilt free lynch that he could pin on someone else.

At that juncture I didn't think we were being completely serious about a vote yet, I thought we were having a discussion. Which is why nobody voted LD then (including myself)


This was in response to my musings (GET IT?!??!?!) over AsiinaRarity's push of Jimson's lynch. Just shows the paranoia of IS. I never questioned his logic nor did I care. But he assumed I cared because he wants to make sure there is nothing that I could perceive as scummy, which comes from a scum mindset because only they would assume that everything they do could be considered scummy.

No, again, I responded to a question.

The AW vote is an easy, safe, lurker vote

TL;DR: IS is scum because he is super self-conscious.

##vote IS

I've told you everything I know at this point including full-claiming, so if you want to lynch me just to see me flip town then go right ahead. That's town's loss. Doesn't seem to matter when if I respond to questions, that's "scummy" and if I lurk, that's scummy too.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Absurd Revolver posted:

wouldn't that be meaningless with the lr tho

Yes, but last I saw there was some discussion over whether that was actually the case. Figured it was better to give the info than not.

The Ninth Layer posted:

Hope you have a better option because otherwise it'll probably be you we flip today.

Still trying to catch up, as soon as I do I'll try to make a case elsewhere.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Your Personal Muse posted:

I want to lynch you because I think you are scum. A full claim doesn't help because everyone is a role. What would help is if you give us your opinions even if you aren't confident. Who do you think is town? What about scum?

So everyone is a PR. Why would telling you my particular PR and verifying my flavor matched AW's not make a difference?

Like, that's seriously a stupid thing to say.

As far as my opinions go, so far on first read-through of the last few pages I'm thinking the following are town:

Myself (obviously)
AW
AA

Unsure on:

LD
YPM (despite you driving the conversation, which I do appreciate even though you're targeting me for whatever reason)
AR

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)




Based on being abrasive as hell to pretty much everyone, combined with throwing out what appears to be a lot of random questions while not providing a lot of insight himself, I'm going to ##vote Kashuno

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



JakeP posted:

I could see the watcher/tracker, and the only way that I think YPM is lying about that is if he is scum with AA, and somehow guessed that no one else would have a nexus type non targetting ability

I don't think 2 shot vig makes sense

I don't really think a two-shot vig makes sense in this setup either. That's a really weird thing to just outright claim based on what everyone else has already claimed.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



tpink posted:

Jesus I'm honestly having trouble engaging with this game despite trying because people are being dicks, and not even in a fun Mafia way but just in a boring you suck / no you suck kind of ways that make my eyes glaze over. gently caress.

Yeah, pretty much this.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Kashuno posted:

I'm skipping the last couple pages at the moment to ask.

Everyone who has claimed flipper, please state your full role name.

Right bottom flipper.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



Absurd Revolver posted:

im the ball launch, in pinball you start with two balls, so two-shot vig

Huh? No you don't. You start with one (if you're talking about per-ball) or usually three (per game)

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)



##vote AR because he's claimed a really weird role which doesn't make sense in the flavor of the game, and/or because he's never played pinball before and that's just as big a crime

  • Locked thread