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i think that this game will be good
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Jul 10, 2016 07:06
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CJacobs posted:Imo the chaos system would have been way better if it was not "low chaos = good ending, high chaos = bad ending" and instead presented the two as different blends of good and bad. The low chaos ending is the least fitting ending ever, it completely runs against the tone of the game. it's kind of silly to arbitrarily call the high chaos ending the bad ending. it's a darker ending sure, but have you seen dunwall recently? poetic justice and poo poo. that said, i don't really agree that the low chaos ending was unfitting. the Outsider hints that corvo's actions are going to have a great effect on the city when they have their initial chat, and the chaos of the city essentially depends upon how lawful or lawless he's been. if you prefer to spare innocents, treat people like people, and generally let the stories of people continue rather than end them abruptly because they're in your way, that's how the city ends up turning out. dunwall's still a pack of jerks, but like Samuel says in the low chaos ending, there's just too many good people left in Dunwall to let it fester and die. ostensibly those good people have won out because the city hasn't gotten THAT brutal. in high chaos, you kill a bunch of people if for no other reason than they're in your way or you thought they might sort of potentially get in your way. dunwall unconsciously follows your example, slips further into barbarism, and there's no good people left to do the reconstruction. it's a pretty cool way of giving agency to the player in a way that's supported in the game. schmitty9800 posted:Games have been trying to do the "make choices in game and it affects endings/gameplay" for decades, and I don't think any game really got it 100% right. Dishonored's take was interesting because high chaos really changes gameplay at an interesting level. But their flaw was, high-low chaos was such a binary thing. There wasn't any good feedback along the lines of "Hey, this is the moment when I really got high chaos". there actually is a 'medium' chaos thing that is mostly, but not entirely, the same as high chaos. they took it out for the DLCs because they realized that basically people were killing almost everyone or practically no one so the whole gradient thing wasn't even remotely needed. you know if you're high chaos by the time you shank your 43rd dude. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jul 10, 2016 |
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Jul 10, 2016 18:45
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HMS Boromir posted:Yeah, the chaos system isn't punishing because high chaos is a reward. Hopefully in the second game low chaos will be at all worthwhile, but I expect high chaos will still be the canonical way to play. You just can't beat creative guard murder. they gave daud some cool non-lethal toys in the Knife of Dunwall DLC, so i suspect you'll have a lot of ways to clown on fools without stopping their hearts. my biggest wish is that they add a few extra stats like in Alpha Protocol. i'd like to play non-lethal, but rack up hundreds of thousands of coins in hospital bills for the random fools i don't kill.
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Jul 10, 2016 18:59
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khwarezm posted:I often see people take issue with equating the high and low chaos system in Dishonored with the usual videogame good/bad ending trope, but I don't really get that. the high chaos take effectively says "no, it doesn't. it's a huge 'civilization' where you get ahead by being uncivilized. even as an empress, emily can't change that, because it's what these people have grown accustomed to. it's better to burn it all down - and more than that, the city deserves it for everything it's done to its own people." low chaos says "yes, it does. every place has dark parts to its history, but the reality of the situation is that dunwall is the vanguard of progress and prosperity, and with good leadership, it will continue to be." both are 'good' endings depending on your point of view. it sounds like you just actually agreed with the low chaos ending, which is good and legit. what you're actually annoyed probably was that the low chaos version forced you to give up a bunch of good and fun tools because they were lethal and you didn't get good and fun non-lethal replacements for them, which is also good and legit. Accordion Man posted:I think the mistake was having the plague being cured in the Low Chaos ending. nah, there were a ton of hints in the game that piero and sokolov had enough understanding to cure the plague, but they were too goddamn pigheaded to actually work together. they're completing each others sentences in the mission The Loyalists. it's also worth noting that both flavors of their elixir worked as a short-lived vaccine (or suppressant, that part actually isn't entirely clear), so a cure was definitely in the cards the whole game. again, the question just becomes whether or not the city remains calm enough for them to actually do their work or not. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jul 10, 2016 |
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Jul 10, 2016 19:07
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khwarezm posted:Obviously this is subjective but I just don't really see how allowing the empire to crumble can truly end up being any kind of moral option, the plague will continue and likely get much worse for the inhabitants of Dunwall if its political establishment and the city's institutions continue to collapse. It sounds like a destroy the village to save it situation. Even then its less of Corvo allowing dunwall's own flaws to catch up with itself as he stands back and more of Corvo (and by extension the player) taking an active, contributory part in all of the things that make the city so miserable, murder, intrigue, betrayal, terrorism and the ruthless pursuit of power. in bioboner you are literally killing prepubescent girls whose only crime is being abducted for a brutal scientific experiment, and what are you talking about with fallout 1 and 2? they had vignette endings, so there was no one good or bad ending as such. FO3 isn't controversial because everyone just agrees all the endings were bad and unsatisfying so none of those last comparisons hold any water at all. beyond that you're basically just saying 'i don't see how anarchy can be moral' which i'm not gonna touch because this isn't D&D. the salient point is that after seeing a city where nobles gently caress over entire families to make themselves marginally richer and fire-breathing thugs and masked, teleporting boogymen constitute the closest thing to a legitimate police force in half the city, a lot of folks could be forgiven for thinking that it's time to just burn the motherfucker down and start with something else. replay lady boyle's last party and the flooded district while taking it slow and listening to jessamine's heart; it's not hard to see how people could figure it's unsalvagable.
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Jul 10, 2016 20:43
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khwarezm posted:In Fallout 1 you can get this ending: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_y4Ao5L6G8. Even leaving that aside both of the first two Fallout games have pretty obvious 'bad' and 'Good' outcomes for almost all of their ending slides without much in between. In the first game it even got to the point that a player with sufficiently bad karma would murder the Vault Overseer at the end of the game. I'd only say its around the time of New Vegas that things got more nuanced. In Bioshock 2 you're also working with a separate Karma system from the little sisters one based on your treatment of certain NPCs that has pretty major repercussions on the ending and is a lot less black and white. are you being willfully dense it seems like you're being willfully dense
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Jul 10, 2016 22:26
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khwarezm posted:This turned into a dumb internet argument fast. khwarezm posted:Obviously this is subjective but gee whiz
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Jul 10, 2016 22:52
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khwarezm posted:Exactly why are you getting so worked up here? If continuing to decline to talk about stuff like that is "getting worked up" then there's a memo I missed somewhere Also lol cjacobs what even is your issue
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Jul 10, 2016 23:26
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khwarezm posted:I have a hunch you don't really know what Anarchism, as in the Proudhon type anarchism really entails do you? I know that I don't give a poo poo because I've now declined to comment on it 3 times. I don't even understand what you think we are disagreeing about because I started off saying that your position was good and legit and you kept arguing with me over increasingly bizarre junk
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Jul 10, 2016 23:54
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Asiina posted:I just wish that you couldn't lose your achievement for a level over something you never saw (like an unconscious dude slipping and drowning in a puddle) i made mad faces because it was bad
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Jul 11, 2016 01:39
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Mordja posted:A new Corvo + Story video just came out and it looks like the main villain is going to be Delilah. Which I'm honestly surprised about, considering I locked her in a still life painting at the end of that DLC! i'm just playing that DLC for the first time, and i can't say i'm too surprised - chick is nothing if not resourceful. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 16:25
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magimix posted:Edit: Also, Dishonored is one of the few games where I recommened turning off all UI and frobs even for the first run. Bar a notable exception in one of the DLCs, everything you need to know to do missions well is there in the game-world. this can be hilariously confusing on the High Overseer mission if you have to drop Curnow in the dumpster because there's no way to tell which dumpster is the right one
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Sep 13, 2016 21:22
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ghost/clean hands boils down to getting bend time 2 first and then mainlining piero's blue drank for the rest of the game. i suppose you can also make an unholy pact with the spirit water bone charm but yeah, it really just means get bend time 2 and get tons of mana. there's one or two decently interesting things you need to do while building up to the required level of runes but at the end of the day you're still heavily incentivized to skip 90%+ of the content.
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Sep 13, 2016 21:38
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it's pretty heavily implied in daud's DLCs anyway i'm really hoping a BigBoot can be used to just KO people under certain circumstances - it looks way too fun to pass up but my first run will probably be clean hands. of course, that said, i hope there's a lot more non-lethal stuff all around. Daud's DLC added a few fun toys for that but i still wanted the opportunity to just slug a dude in his face and not kill him
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Sep 22, 2016 17:06
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3Romeo posted:I waffled a while on this when I first heard about it. in the end I figured it'll all depend on how they use her, but really, villains weren't the first game's strong suit. Burrows and the rest weren't much more than caricatures. The only antagonist in the first game with any kind of real depth was Daud. burrows did a great starscream, pretending he was great while simultaneously loving himself over with a hilariously stupid plan
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Sep 22, 2016 19:42
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the biggest thing you can say for the Outsider is that he sets people up to fail themselves. of the 4 people we know he chatted with in dishonored 1, he went with: 1) a betrayed man on his way to the firing squad (corvo) 2) a gutter rat from Serkonos who had never known anything but kill or be killed (daud) 3) a servant girl who had lost what little she had because of a childish game with her friend (deliliah) 4) a highborn woman who turned down very high powered marriages for, as nearly as we can tell, reasons of love/lack thereof and was insanely lonely (granny rags) in all of the cases that we can put together, he showed up to these people when they had hit rock bottom so hard they left a cartoon outline. he's not evil in the normal sense but he definitely sets people up to do some very rash things by only showing up when they're the most desperate. in that way it makes sense why someone would tell him to gently caress off, it's basically them realizing that they're being set up and choosing to avoid the situation rather than try to escape the trap. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Sep 30, 2016 |
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Sep 30, 2016 19:32
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Digirat posted:Where was it mentioned that you can refuse your powers? Thematically that sounds extremely cool but also a lot less interesting to play after a couple levels. I like the idea of just being some random moron skulking around filthy corners with a gun, but I could see myself regretting the decision to limit myself to that before long. it's basically a Mostly Flesh and Steel run++. Mostly Flesh and Steel can be really fun if you're of a certain mindset, but i don't think the reason so few people have the achievement on Dishonored 1 is because it's hard (it's really not).
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Oct 3, 2016 19:28
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not that we know of but we won't know for sure until release probably
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Oct 4, 2016 06:21
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Which happens to cost you the Cleanest Hands achievement 
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Oct 4, 2016 07:37
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yeah during the LP we're just wrapping up, TheLastRoboKy compared it to Detective Vision from the Batman games, and i felt that was really apt. really if you got rid of the visual effect (sepia in Dishonored, wireframe in Batman) you'd have an objectively superior form of vision, with no downsides. so really it just becomes a matter of are you personally offended by the visual effect's aesthetic enough to not abuse the hell out of it in the context of a stream or a LP the visual effect makes sense because it's harsh and you don't want to piss off your viewers. but in terms of just playing the game yourself i think it's difficult to argue that there's a real downside to darkvision and that's not really a good thing. even just disabling mana regen while it's active i think would be plenty.
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Oct 9, 2016 18:43
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orcane posted:But the thing is, this just makes it more annoying to handle. You haven't changed why you'd want to use it (ie. still as much as possible), so in situations where timing is important you may not use it a few times because of the added resource use/drain, every other time though you will simply be waiting longer for it to be usable/for mana to recharge etc. uhhhh it means it costs more to be mobile and active while you're using the power, which is a very good reason why you wouldn't want it on all the time veni veni veni posted:This is a good point and the problem with these abilities (In a lot of games not just Dishonored) is that the only downside is that it's less pleasing aesthetically. I can see why developers put super vision mode in stealth games now, in old stealth games you'd often have to wait minutes for the right moment to strike. I don't think people have the patience for that in a AAA game these days, myself included probably . So I can see why it exists, but I think there needs to be some sort of tradeoff, so these modes are something you don't spend too much time in. thought about this a little bit i think the number one way you could get around it is to have more elaborate intelligence gathering procedures. the biggest difference between stealth games and what we know of covert ops from declassified documents and poo poo (i'm not about to pretend i know a ton about modern irl poo poo) is that the actual execution is a strict minority of the actual time that goes into an operation. beyond that it's an absolute assload of intelligence gathering and analysis. i think Dishonored 1's events take place over the course of like 2 weeks total. really what it should've been is that you have like a week or two before each mission to just walk around the target area, get a feel for the place, and figure out what it's going to be like when you get to the actual mission. maybe you grease a guard's palm to get the duty assignments for that evening, maybe you poison the captain so he's puking his guts out and everyone stays put instead of going on patrol like they should, etc. daud's favor purchases were kind of a step in the right direction. in the meantime you can also do odd jobs to get off-path keys and money, explore gutters for the like 10-coin pickups you can get in the actual mission, and otherwise just do stuff to build up. that way by the time you actually set the player on the mission, you can reasonably expect that players know what's going on, and if you want to make it really easy you can set up outlines or whatever of expected guard places or other stuff based upon your intel. trouble of course is making the build-up as interesting as the actual mission, which would legit be hard Coolguye fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Oct 9, 2016 |
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Oct 9, 2016 19:53
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orcane posted:Now you made it so you have to stop to use it all the time. You have to move parts of the functionality, just stacking penalties on it is not a great solution. i don't understand what you are talking about so let's start over a minute the problem presented was that wallhack stuff like dark vision and detective vision have no actual downsides or costs beyond the visual effect, which is dubious at best i proposed a cost and you don't seem to be talking about that at all, you seem to be talking about how people would continue to keep it up at nearly all times and it'd be not worth it or something, which is kind of the point (???) like what exactly are you proposing here
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Oct 9, 2016 20:23
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the passive mana regen was really good i thought, otherwise you'd see people using the super cool and fun powers they had a lot less. casual use of blink or dark vision isn't an issue and can help the experience out a lot i felt, without them it becomes a lot more annoying to move around and get things done. constant use of both was a serious problem sure, but in blink's case that consumed your mana pretty quickly. darkvision didn't but we all basically agree that was a problem.
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Oct 9, 2016 20:33
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Party Plane Jones posted:Corvo spends 6 months getting tortured in the prison after the assassination so your estimate is off. i was referring to the stuff after coldridge orcane posted:My point is that the issue is largely in the function of Batman vision, and that just adding a cost only makes it more obnoxious to use, it doesn't greatly change the fact that you want to use it as often as possible. the function of possession is that you can walk around and do most things you need to do to complete the game and it negates the stealth system basically entirely. but people don't abuse it and don't want to because it costs too much and makes you move slowly. in an ideal world you would use possession as often as possible, but people don't because of the cost. hell right between your two posts we have this gentleman: kikkelivelho posted:Yeah most people probably like the passive regen which is why I said it should be an optional toggle like the guard vertical vision cones. For me the lack of regen would immediately make resource management more important, suddenly even something as simple as blink has a real cost associated with it and you need to consider your movements and actions a lot more carefully. It also balances the powers without nerfing their actual effects. I was constantly capped at 10 mana vials in the original and never felt like my resources were limited which made the exploration feel a bit meaningless at times. I still searched every corner I found because the art and level design are best in class but I'd really like to have an actual gameplay reason for the exploration. your premise is completely wrong here so uh "no"? do you have a different way of presenting this?
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Oct 9, 2016 21:23
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Resource posted:About Darkvision in Dishonored 2, the internet says: that's a great way to handle the issue
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Oct 10, 2016 20:40
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the corrupted bone charms were random just the same as other bone charms; for a stealth or speed run, the Zephyr charm was a huge boon if it was the first one you picked up, because ostensibly you weren't planning to take a whole lot of damage anyway. alternately, if you're gonna waltz through and stab anything that looks at you funny, Tank is amazing if you can manage to get it early on. this sort of randomization was the biggest thing people hated in terms of bone charms, though, so the crafting system we've talked about in Dishonored 2 will presumably make it easier to beeline to big things that you value highly. like strong arms comes immediately to mind as one of the things that you should just pray to whatever god you worship to get in Dishonored 1 if you're talking about doing a low chaos run. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Oct 11, 2016 |
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Oct 11, 2016 00:18
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Yeah the video cards aside those specs are pretty chill, and he video card is always the first thing to get exaggerated in official specs for a whole host of reasons. GETTIN HYPE
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Nov 2, 2016 17:12
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i have 105 hours on dishonored 1 gently caress.
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Nov 2, 2016 23:01
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Digirat posted:Now I'm trying to finish the DLCs before dishonored 2 comes out because I never played them for some reason. The knife of dunwall is quite good so far, and it's got several new options for low chaos which is great and makes me hopeful that dishonored 2 will make low chaos just as well fleshed out as high chaos. there's been a couple of flashes of low-chaos combat in the preview videos, which is nice. one of the biggest frustrations i had while playing particularly the Daud DLCs in the LP was that if someone spotted me, I couldn't stun the guy with something like a goomba stomp, and then just punch his lights out while he was recovering. it as basically use some sort of consumable (like a sleep dart) or stab time.
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Nov 7, 2016 21:18
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veni veni veni posted:Yeah might as well go whole hog if you are doing high chaos. And corvo doesn't forget him after he goes all high society at the end of the game too. One of the clicks in the ending montage is the two of them sharing a beer at the hound pits  You deserve it, Sammy. Only decent dude in Dunwall.
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Nov 8, 2016 17:06
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I'm not clear how much refusing the mark actually does to the story, but it seems fairly minor right now. The Outsider is still chirping up at me, but when Corvo goes to write in his travel log, he details his jaunt to the Void and writes a little bit about his thoughts on refusing. I obviously haven't beaten the game yet so maybe there's more at the end but so far it really does just seem like a max-difficulty thing.
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Nov 10, 2016 09:01
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On an unrelated note, I knocked out a critical NPC by throwing a whiskey glass at her head. Now I've gotta try this against civilians and guards.
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Nov 10, 2016 09:18
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:So choking a guy out while his buddy hacks him up with a sword still counts as a kill. drat. If you're sliding toward someone you can do a non-lethal takedown. Corvo kicks a dude in the nuts and then goes all SHORYUKEN on their face. it's loving great. I presume Emily has a similar skill but I'm going all Badass Dad on this run. radintorov posted:That is a downer: having them interact throughout the game would have been so nice. The tutorial is Corvo running Emily through the paces, and there is a very brief but delightful moment at the end when he's teaching you how to kill a dude after a parry. e: also I like the new Outsider because he actually loving talks at a reasonable pace, instead of taking 10 years to say 10 words.
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Nov 10, 2016 19:37
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Bogart posted:It's very cute. When you try to choke him out, you get to the end of the bar, and then he pats your arm and you let him go. Also, you can Drop Knockout now, but it's finnicky. The New Outsider isn't bad, but I really liked the old one. And then when you perform the parry assassination on him, Emily knocks him down and gets her sword on his throat, at which point he grins proudly at her 
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Nov 10, 2016 20:59
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dublish posted:So on a scale of 1 to the 2016 election, how terrible are bloodflies? tony danza
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Nov 10, 2016 21:24
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MC Smoke Sensei posted:I have four words, friends. Four. THE HUG GOSPEL SPREADS TO A NEW CITY
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Nov 11, 2016 09:28
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RatHat posted:There are no rats in this game right? It was a real pain in the rear end to go non-lethal in Dishonored 1 because of them. There are rats, but thus far they only exist as possession fodder. Bloodflies fill the "horrible way to kill an unconscious man" thing now but they are approximately 80 times more controllable because you swing your sword twice and they go docile.
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Nov 11, 2016 09:30
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Furthermore they: 1) buzz loudly, so you can't miss them the way you sometimes could a rat swarm 2) die very quickly (the aforementioned two sword swings) 3) can be distracted from a sleeping man in the worst case
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Nov 11, 2016 09:39
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Casimir Radon posted:The heart is a little funny this time around. According to it everyone on the dock is essentially a murderer. the gambler guy playing dice "sends her money whenever he can" 
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Nov 11, 2016 18:27
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Casimir Radon posted:I've had a few of those now but most people are far above average in their awfulness. Here's a regular looking guy, he purposely slammed a door on a kid's hand. yeah part of it i think is that you need to take Jessamine's reports with a decent grain of salt. she's pretty relentlessly depressing about everything (which i get, goes with being dead), so if she says something like "yeah she steals crap from her maids for her own amusement", i tend to interpret that as the worst thing she's ever done. the dude who slammed a door on a kid's hand, he's 30-something and that's the worst he's ever done. well i mean yeah that's a real dick move but i can see someone having an incredibly bad day and doing that and then feeling lovely about it afterward. there's another dude who she says "yeah he gets his pay, then changes shirts and collects again under the name of a dude he knows has been dead for months". and i'm over here thinking "well poo poo man, run that hustle if you got it, you're doing seriously dirty work so sure." that's not to say i'm excusing the people who abandoned newborns in a dumpster or got rivals to be dragged away and tortured by Overseers just because they were prettier, but if you listen to Jessamine's reports as "this is literally the worst thing this cat has ever done" then a lot more people come off as relatively okay sorts. if the worst you've done in your 30 years of life is to steal someone's mail then you probably don't deserve to get brutally stabbed in the street. and then the handful that she says something positive about, you have to think "woah this cat has literally never done something lovely in their however many years of life", which even irl i imagine is fairly rare. Coolguye fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Nov 11, 2016 |
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Nov 11, 2016 19:41
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