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Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Macaluso posted:

He revealed this to all the other Chaotix much to their surprise because I guess he just never took a break from flying.

That makes sense. Bees have to fly in order to breath.

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Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Spiderdrake posted:

But seriously why would you have any confidence in any Sonic series?

I wouldn't say I have confidence in any given upcoming game, but the Sonic series has a strange tendency to produce the occasional excellent game despite the majority being mediocre to bad.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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I think it's partly a "road less taken" thing. Sonic Adventure had the weakness of the parts where you played as Sonic were (mostly) much better than the parts where you played as his friends. The approaches to resolve this weakness are:

A) Make the parts where you played as his friends better, which is what Sega attempted (to arguable success) in Adventure 2 and 2006.
B) Reduce the separation between Sonic and his friends, like in Heroes and Sonic Boom.
or
C) Excise the parts where you play as anyone but Sonic, like in Secret Rings, Unleashed, Colors, Lost Worlds and Generations.

There have been several relatively recent games where you play as just Sonic, as well as the Sonic Boom series, which takes the middle approach.
But Sega really hasn't really tried to make an Adventure game but better since 2006. It's interesting to imagine what such games would be like if they had gone down that path.

Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Mar 25, 2017

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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TFRazorsaw posted:

Fans hate it when Sonic tries to take itself seriously.

I don't think this is necessarily accurate. I was actually surprised how many people I know, when seeing the Sonic Forces promo art of the giant Eggman robots lying waste to a city while Sonic looks on, where thrilled that Sonic games were "taking themselves seriously" again.

Certainly, some fans don't want Sonic to be serious, but I don't think that group is as much of a majority as you might suspect.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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ImpAtom posted:

It's possible for Eggman to be mildly threatening in a way a superhero can stop without a game being a grimdark angstfest.

It's also for a game to be a grimdark angstfest and be good.

Granted, the Sonic games that currently exist aren't the best evidence of that.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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When he's voiced by Long John Baldry, he's Robotnik. When he's voiced by Mike Pollock, he's Eggman.

It fine.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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SeANMcBAY posted:

Do any old Mario fans still make a big deal about Princess Toadstool becoming Peach? I dunno why Sonic fans still care about Robotic/Eggman when they use both now.

Mario games don't have characters as much as they have props.

Except Wario.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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a.lo posted:

im gonna loving……… go watch the sonic OVA right now

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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#1 player at Ohayocon

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Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Amppelix posted:

Hey look this game's out now: http://store.steampowered.com/app/601810/

Spark the Electric Jester, from lakefeperd aka the Sonic Before the Sequel guy. It's a game very much in the vein of Freedom Planet in that it's basically Sonic's movement style but with a whole lot of other games mixed in there for good measure. Also it's visually really amateur hour, this guy's not a very good artist. Hopefully it plays fine.

I like the level of momentum in the video. I might throw some money down at some point.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Darn near every 3d game has involved Eggman unleashing some unspeakable evil. Bubsy is just the most unspeakable yet.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Pureauthor posted:

Ah, so instead the new playable will be Sonic Black.

Nah, that's Sonic X with Tunnel Rhino's power.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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holy loving poo poo that screen wipe

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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DizzyBum posted:

DNF was amazing and widely praised and fondly remembered in a parallel universe when it was actually released in early 2001.

Remember that this is the universe where Daikatana was released in 2000.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Calaveron posted:

"All it takes is one bad day" is word for word the theme of the Joker/Batman duality and relationship

ImpAtom posted:

That specific line is literally from a Batman/Joker story called The Killing Joke. (It's not a coincidence either, Ian Flynn used to post in BSS.)

Every edgelord teenager believes they're the Joker.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Ventana posted:

I don't normally buy into conspiracy theory stuff, but I find it extremely hard to believe from what we've seen that this is a game that's been worked on consistently for 4 years. They said they started production right after Lost World, but things seemed to have been taken right out of Generations almost lazily.

Keep in mind that there's a lot to production that isn't actually programming the game, so the game could absolutely have been "in production" for years and it wouldn't necessarily tell us anything.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Ventana posted:

But that's what I meant in the other part I said. It's extremely weird that they seemed to double down on doing something fresh for Lost World, then take a long time to step right back into another Generations (that looks worse). Typically dev cycles involve starting up the next project during the end of the previous project, so if they really did decide at the last minute of Lost World to go back to Classic+Modern Sonic how did it take so long when this looks worse/low effort?

Even the process of making that decision still counts as "production." If Sega did nothing but hem and haw over that for four years, then Sonic Forces would still have technically been in production for four years.

As for why this looks worse, I'd bet the release of the Switch played havoc with their plans and the really inconsistent (and less impressive) play videos are a result of them trying to adapt what they've already produced to the new architecture.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Spiderdrake posted:

Also: Desertified GHZ is a tremendously dumb level to preview 2d Sonic on, but I bet we'll feel a lot more confident once they show a new zone with Classic Sonic bouncing around. (Watch as all the classic levels are desertified S1 levels, including a bone dry Labyrinth zone and a rusting Scrap Brain Zone)
Sonic CD but it's always Bad Future.

Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Apr 30, 2017

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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I am 100% in favor of Shadow just being the American Kirby version of Sonic refuses to ever admit to having fun.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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What's the current preferred Genesis emulator?

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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King Vidiot posted:

Okay cool, so are you fine with calling Bowser "Koopa" from now on too? Because that's his name, not even King Koopa. It's just Koopa. Or, spelled phonetically from the original Japanese, "Kuppa".

I can't speak for Screaming Idiot, but personally I don't give a poo poo about Mario canon.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Emerald Hill Zone is literally the first Green Hill Zone remake.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Andre Banzai posted:

Hahahahaha I'm pretty sure the Tumblr and DeviantArt crowd will be pleased. That's their game, it's a huge bad fanfic game and cool for them if they're happy with it. Since Sonic Mania is coming out, all's fine. Let's hope your Super Sonic Cycle prediction doesn't come true!

I'm not too cool to enjoy seeing my terrible fan character beat up Eggman's robots.

You ain't too cool to enjoy seeing your terrible fan character beat up Eggman's robots.

None of us bastards are too cool to enjoy seeing our terrible fan characters beat up Eggman's robots.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Lizard Wizard posted:

If you try to make an echidna, Ken Penders comes out of the screen and sues you.

You joke, but that might legitimately have been a factor.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Hitlersaurus Christ posted:

Anyway, Snoic Generatons officially has a character creator now


Barkley 2 is looking good.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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ImpAtom posted:

Sonic Forces will come out before Barkely 2 and eclipse it in quality.

I believe one of these things.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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El Mido posted:

are you all playing some hosed up bootleg sonic cd because the sonic cd as envisioned by christian whitehead is a very good game.

It's still has the very real problem of trying to be a speedy go fast game, an acrobatic platformer, and an exploration game all at the same time.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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The White Dragon posted:

actually i hate all the sonic special stages :(

Basically, although S3+K's were fine, I guess.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Andre Banzai posted:

This I could never understand. I always thought these special stages were really easy. I remember I could easily grab all 7 emeralds still in Emerald Hill (3 in act 1 and 4 in act 2) and face the first boss as Super Sonic.

The Sonic 2 special stages require both foreknowledge and near perfect execution. They're not impossible, but I knew that of the fifteen or so times I'd get to them over the course of the game, I'd never win enough to ever get the prize.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Kurieg posted:

Also I will forever hate the Sonic Heroes special stages because there's one emerald I never got, and the one time I got close shadow somehow dropped half a centimeter, got stuck inside of the tube, and then started running backwards at mach 5 as the collision detection tried to eject him.

There's a lot of weirdness with the Sonic Heroes because (IIRC) certain teams were actually faster than others.

For example, Amy was actually slower than the fast character on the other three teams. So while her stages were shorter (which meant you could get to the special stages in less time) you were less likely to win with her because she had a higher chance of running the clock before getting enough balloons.

I think the fastest character was actually the chameleon, who stages were the longest. So if you spent the time to complete the longer version of a stage, you'd be rewarded with a better chance of winning the special stage.

None of that helped if you had a collision error in the perfectly smooth, featureless tunnel that'd then send you careening off in the opposite direction, of course.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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King Vidiot posted:

How the gently caress have I spent the past 20+ years not knowing you can skip over the underwater part in CPZ act 2? :psyduck:

I never would have found it on my own if I hadn't been told. It's pretty cleverly hidden.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

I can't stress enough how pushing Flying Battery back so it sits in between Carnival Night and Ice Cap helps with pacing. You get all the good zones while you're pumped up and ready to tackle a bunch of levels, then you just get Mushroom Hill, Sandopolis and Lava Reef with a focus on gaining the super emeralds so you aren't burned out in the second half before they start escalating everything for the finale.

I could never find any bonus levels in Sandopolis (or Flying Battery). I remember having to scour the entirety of Lava Reef to get enough emeralds.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Gammatron 64 posted:

People love making GBS threads on Sonic CD's level design, but the only levels that are legitimately horrible are Wacky Workbench and Metallic Madness act 2

The rest of the game is fine

Sonic CD is a game that tries to marry the concept of a fast gameplay with careful exploration throughout a level, and the level design just does not facilitate this. You can't maintain speed because there are constantly obstacles to halt your momentum. You can't fully explore a level both because there are several one-way passages that lock off areas, and because full exploration requires time travel which requires maintaining your speed which you can't reliably do because there are constantly obstacles that halt your momentum.

The net effect of this is that you can either play the game as a basic platformer to just complete the levels and accept that the level design is not going to permit you to go fast, or you can play the game as a puzzle game to find the robot transporter and accept the risk of hitting a checkpoint past a one-way passage which will render the goal uncompletable.

The level design in Sonic CD gets in the way of enjoying the game.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Screaming Idiot posted:

Generations wasn't perfect -- I hated the cringey cutscenes, and the 2D sections were not that good. But it was a modern game, while Mania is going the Megaman 9/10 route of trying to be the games we loved as kids, a move which failed for me in a big way.

We can't have our old games back. We loved them twenty years ago because that's all they had to offer back then, and to expect the same response to a game after twenty years is naive. I'll buy it when it comes out on the off chance I'm wrong, but from everything shown it looks like they're trying to sell my childhood back to me and nothing else.

Forces looks awful too, but at least it gives us the ability to play as Poochy before he dies on the way back to his home planet.

Sonic Generations was literally trying to be the games you loved as a kid and trying to sell your childhood back to you.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Electric Phantasm posted:

i like sonics friends

:hai:

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Calaveron posted:

Oh yes I will not be sated until I can play as Bark the Polar Bear or Charmy the Bee or Mighty the Bean or any of the garbo birds in Sonic R instead of Sonic the Hedgehog, Miles "Tails" Prower or Knuckles the Echidna

I can't believe you'd lower yourself to playing as Sonic's terrible friends, Tails and Knuckles.

edit: SMDH

Schwarzwald fucked around with this message at 04:24 on May 31, 2017

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Zelder posted:

Edit: I also feel like "90s raditude" and "I'm cursed to walk the earth forever after the only woman I ever loved died" are 2 pretty different things

They're similar in that they both appealed to 12-year-olds.

Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:

Knuckles has ever-so-slightly-harder boss fights.

It turns out that all Robotnik Eggman needed to do to beat Sonic was to hover just four or so pixels higher.

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Schwarzwald
Jul 27, 2004

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Augus posted:

easier, maybe.
more fun? ehhh

Time traveling and finding the generators is the most unique and most interesting part of the game. Without it, it's just a less fun Sonic 1 (but with a stronger soundtrack).

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