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Theophany
Jul 22, 2014

"This is only the beginning of the reckoning. This is only the first sip, the first foretaste of a bitter cup which will be proffered to us year by year unless, by a supreme recovery of moral health and martial vigour, we arise again and take our stand for freedom as in the olden time."


A random musing, but years ago there was a company called Monsoon that made rather ornate fittings that came with a tool that you inserted into the collar of the compression fittings to twist them onto the barb.

Shame they presumably went bust because it was a brilliant idea and I can't believe EK haven't ripped it off considering they had the foresight to make the inner part of their barbs hexagonal so you can tighten them up with a hex key.

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Sorbus
Apr 1, 2010


I have alphacool eishand gloves just for tightening fittings without removing my fingerprints. I suppose any work gloves with rubbery layer would work.

The Electronaut
May 10, 2009


Theophany posted:

A random musing, but years ago there was a company called Monsoon that made rather ornate fittings that came with a tool that you inserted into the collar of the compression fittings to twist them onto the barb.

Shame they presumably went bust because it was a brilliant idea and I can't believe EK haven't ripped it off considering they had the foresight to make the inner part of their barbs hexagonal so you can tighten them up with a hex key.

Ya they suck with ZMT, I have them as part of my loop. In hindsight, I wish I didnít. I too had some finger pain for a week or so after, it felt very similar to the injury I got when my thumb hyperextended during a cycling crash. Next loop cycle I plan to replace them.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012





Well, the dish soap thing let me get my loop put back together in half the time and a quarter the pain. I messed up on one part because I was rushing and took a shortcut, but I know how to fix that.

I'm crossposting from the DIY wiring thread because this is mostly math checking and pointing out any bad assmptions but:

I have an EK 3.2 DDC pump running off a 4-pin molex. Back of the napkin electronics math says a 12V pump consuming 18W of power should be drawing no more than 1.5A.

My Aquacomputer Octo's 4-Pin PWM headers are rated for 12V 2A. Based on this, there should be no reason I couldn't repin the pump to run off just the Octo's PWM header, right?

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Warmachine posted:

Well, the dish soap thing let me get my loop put back together in half the time and a quarter the pain. I messed up on one part because I was rushing and took a shortcut, but I know how to fix that.

I'm crossposting from the DIY wiring thread because this is mostly math checking and pointing out any bad assmptions but:

I have an EK 3.2 DDC pump running off a 4-pin molex. Back of the napkin electronics math says a 12V pump consuming 18W of power should be drawing no more than 1.5A.

My Aquacomputer Octo's 4-Pin PWM headers are rated for 12V 2A. Based on this, there should be no reason I couldn't repin the pump to run off just the Octo's PWM header, right?

Yeah, that math checks out; you can double-check the gauge of the wire you're using (you'll have some voltage drop) but 2 ADC is pretty typical for those 100 mil headers.

How loud is that guy? I need to get off my rear end and keep ordering parts -- I think I've actually convinced myself that I should just go back to using a Vario D5. Are they all created equal more or less if they are from Xylem? I think I belatedly understand now... you can buy the pump "Core" itself, and then you can choose your top for it, based on whatever fittings / connections / etc you need? And then you pick a bracket, and done? I just want some kind of RGB-less top to go along with a dead nuts simple pump core.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012





movax posted:

Yeah, that math checks out; you can double-check the gauge of the wire you're using (you'll have some voltage drop) but 2 ADC is pretty typical for those 100 mil headers.

How loud is that guy? I need to get off my rear end and keep ordering parts -- I think I've actually convinced myself that I should just go back to using a Vario D5. Are they all created equal more or less if they are from Xylem? I think I belatedly understand now... you can buy the pump "Core" itself, and then you can choose your top for it, based on whatever fittings / connections / etc you need? And then you pick a bracket, and done? I just want some kind of RGB-less top to go along with a dead nuts simple pump core.

Vdrop should be pretty small. 50mV at the most extreme end (300mm of 22 AWG), and I'm overestimating the length of the leads on purpose.

At max RPM it's very audible. I run mine at 1400 RPM and I don't notice it, but I also live on a major road so the ambient noise might mask things that could drive other folks up the walls. Mine is also an exterior pump. IceMan makes a specialized DDC pump-res combo for the Ncase M1 that mounts on the back of the rear 92mm fan mount, so there's no case to muffle the noise.

Generally though, the loudest things in my case are the power supply fan (I don't wanna void the warranty on it to replace it with a noctua) and the moving air. Maybe some coil whine on a bad day, but the GPU inductors are pretty well insulated at this point.

edit: I just emailed the folks at pslate customs to see if they carry 22-24 AWG silver wire. I don't think 18 AWG, which I suspect they use for the power supply cables, will fit in a 4 pin female PWM connector. I'd like these to match since they'll be exposed behind my case and frankly it'd look super slick.

Warmachine fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Mar 23, 2021

forbidden dialectics
Jul 26, 2005







Warmachine posted:

Yep, echoing what everyone else is saying: My Octo does virtual sensors just fine.

Which, by the way, I got my custom cables yesterday and put my Ncase build back together with the Bykski block to test the thermals. I'm going to analyze the logs in the morning and try to do the EK test as well. I also installed my Octo as this post implies, and it's everything I wanted. Because it uses a vertical molex connector for power, it doesn't fit in the front of my case in the 2.5in drive space, but I taped it to the front panel in a good spot and honestly I think I'm gonna keep it mounted like this. I really appreciate that they included a thermistor to use as an ambient sensor. I have mine set up in front of the primary radiator to measure the intake air temperature. I figure that's the best place because there's going to be a non-negligible amount of recirculation from the secondary radiator in the bottom of the case warming the air around the case in general.

I figured out my confusion: the virtual sensors that the Quadro/Octo can do require the Aquasuite software to be running on the host machine - the Aquaero doesn't, i.e., you can configure the sensors, it stores them on the device itself, then you can unplug it from the host machine and even use it in a completely different computer, without Aquasuite.

This may or may not matter for your particular use case - for example, I use a Quadro to control the fans in my headless file/Plex/etc server. Not exactly something I can/want to run Aquasuite on, so it's kind of a bummer that the Quadro doesn't work like that. I have them control based on a couple of set points I tweaked based on harddrive temperatures/room temperature, so it's not a huge deal or anything, but I would be so much nicer to be able to do delta temperatures on the device itself.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012





forbidden dialectics posted:

I figured out my confusion: the virtual sensors that the Quadro/Octo can do require the Aquasuite software to be running on the host machine - the Aquaero doesn't, i.e., you can configure the sensors, it stores them on the device itself, then you can unplug it from the host machine and even use it in a completely different computer, without Aquasuite.

This may or may not matter for your particular use case - for example, I use a Quadro to control the fans in my headless file/Plex/etc server. Not exactly something I can/want to run Aquasuite on, so it's kind of a bummer that the Quadro doesn't work like that. I have them control based on a couple of set points I tweaked based on harddrive temperatures/room temperature, so it's not a huge deal or anything, but I would be so much nicer to be able to do delta temperatures on the device itself.

Huh. I'll have to take a look when I go back in. I haven't used my delta sensor yet since I'm still in the testing/refining phase. My screwup was in the liquid metal application so I need to correct that before I do anything else. Would rather not run with hot spots.

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Warmachine posted:

Vdrop should be pretty small. 50mV at the most extreme end (300mm of 22 AWG), and I'm overestimating the length of the leads on purpose.

At max RPM it's very audible. I run mine at 1400 RPM and I don't notice it, but I also live on a major road so the ambient noise might mask things that could drive other folks up the walls. Mine is also an exterior pump. IceMan makes a specialized DDC pump-res combo for the Ncase M1 that mounts on the back of the rear 92mm fan mount, so there's no case to muffle the noise.

Generally though, the loudest things in my case are the power supply fan (I don't wanna void the warranty on it to replace it with a noctua) and the moving air. Maybe some coil whine on a bad day, but the GPU inductors are pretty well insulated at this point.

edit: I just emailed the folks at pslate customs to see if they carry 22-24 AWG silver wire. I don't think 18 AWG, which I suspect they use for the power supply cables, will fit in a 4 pin female PWM connector. I'd like these to match since they'll be exposed behind my case and frankly it'd look super slick.

18 AWG will be a tough crimp in those contacts for most families; even 20 can be pushing it for some (there are a few TE part numbers that work OK); I use Harwin M20s for most of my 100mil signaling wiring needs.

Just found the Quadro in stock, and went with a Watercool D5 pump. Stocking my cart at EK now with fittings (Quantum HDC) and some acrylic tubing. Since my case has no windows, Iím just going matte black for all the fittings with gold / nickel rings to do inlet vs outlet at a glance.

Now, just need a res ó whatís the smallest one folks like to use with the biggest variety of brackets / options for mounting? Think Iíll place it right above the pump inlet.

AutismVaccine
Feb 26, 2017


SPECIAL NEEDS
SQUAD


movax posted:

18 AWG will be a tough crimp in those contacts for most families; even 20 can be pushing it for some (there are a few TE part numbers that work OK); I use Harwin M20s for most of my 100mil signaling wiring needs.

Just found the Quadro in stock, and went with a Watercool D5 pump. Stocking my cart at EK now with fittings (Quantum HDC) and some acrylic tubing. Since my case has no windows, Iím just going matte black for all the fittings with gold / nickel rings to do inlet vs outlet at a glance.

Now, just need a res ó whatís the smallest one folks like to use with the biggest variety of brackets / options for mounting? Think Iíll place it right above the pump inlet.

Why no pump/res combo?

movax
Aug 30, 2008



AutismVaccine posted:

Why no pump/res combo?

I wasn't sure I'd be able to fit it somewhere, but as these things always go... after ordering the separate pump, I realize that the bottom 120 mm fan mount area in the Meshify C would probably have worked fine for something like this.

Bracket wise now, I'm thinking that little area in the rear of the case above the PCIe slots would probably work OK to place the res and have a decent amount of space to get a fill port into the top of it -- I need to dig up the picture of what I'm looking for there to figure out what kind of bracket would do the job.

e: This area, what search terms / bracket would I get?



Bend out the bottom of that, run along bottom, right down to the pump. Would feed res inlet from the future GPU block. So overall, that would go res ->flow meter / temp sensor -> pump -> front rad -> top rad -> CPU block -> GPU block -> back to res... doesn't sound optimal to kick the warm coolant through the pump, but overall delta T should be small in tiny loops, right? Super easy fill like the pic, and maybe a QD / T fitting near the pump to use as the drain valve? Case will be mounted under my standing desk, so it's trivial to raise it up and pop a valve on the bottom to drain it.

movax fucked around with this message at 05:43 on Mar 30, 2021

Passburger
May 3, 2013


I got a weird question to ask.

I bought a chassi with rads and everything already in place from someone. The thing is they were using nickel-plated copper tubing and it was an 7th gen intel ATX mobo, I'm gonna have my AMD x470 ATX system in there.

And so my question is: will the cpu block be roughly in the same position as it was on the Intel build, or will I have to bend new copper pipes?

Indiana_Krom
Jun 18, 2007
Net Slacker

Passburger posted:

I got a weird question to ask.

I bought a chassi with rads and everything already in place from someone. The thing is they were using nickel-plated copper tubing and it was an 7th gen intel ATX mobo, I'm gonna have my AMD x470 ATX system in there.

And so my question is: will the cpu block be roughly in the same position as it was on the Intel build, or will I have to bend new copper pipes?

Most likely you will have to bend new pipes, it isn't impossible for it to line up since CPUs are usually around the same area on all motherboards, but nickel plated copper tubing has very limited flexibility so unless it is within a 2-3 millimeters or about 0.1 inches in all directions you probably can't stretch it.

Passburger
May 3, 2013


Thanks!
One can only hope, there are a bunch of fittings on both ends of the tubes too, so it might be doable. If not, I get to learn how to bend copper tubes!

Kerosene19
May 7, 2007




Lots of delivery trucks showed up this week. Added a 360 Monsta external rad.

Shrimp or Shrimps
Feb 14, 2012




That is one thicc rad. Are those QDCs, and how are you going to place it?

ilkhan
Oct 7, 2004

Life Before Death
Strength Before Weakness
Journey Before Destination


My 3600 got replaced by a 5800X, but I didn't even unhook the loop to do it. I think it's the first time I've upgraded a CPU without doing the mobo too. Now to see how temps look with 360+280 and just 105W of input heat.

Kerosene19
May 7, 2007




Shrimp or Shrimps posted:

That is one thicc rad. Are those QDCs, and how are you going to place it?

Standing on my desk. Case sits on a slate by my right foot.


Used Alphacool Eiszapfen QDC's. Seem to be good quality.

Fun little project

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Kerosene19 posted:

Standing on my desk. Case sits on a slate by my right foot.


Used Alphacool Eiszapfen QDC's. Seem to be good quality.

Fun little project

I saw that pic the other day! Made me think ďhuh, poo poo, Iím mounting right under a standing desk, totally could have done that.Ē

What kind of pump is feeding that? I imagine doing a 240 and 360 inside the case and then also an external 360 is overkill but those fans will uh, never spin up.

Kerosene19
May 7, 2007




movax posted:

I saw that pic the other day! Made me think ďhuh, poo poo, Iím mounting right under a standing desk, totally could have done that.Ē

What kind of pump is feeding that? I imagine doing a 240 and 360 inside the case and then also an external 360 is overkill but those fans will uh, never spin up.

Just the EK D5 pump/res in the case, and yeah it's all about setting idle speeds for acceptable noise at this point.

I was really close to getting this for the stand but the current design doesn't allow the end tank to be at the bottom.
https://liquid-haus.squarespace.com/products
Dude says he's working on a revised design though, if so....

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Doing some planning / trying to get an EKWB order in with most of what I'm looking for.

Two ideas I have for routing tubes:



Above should be pump -> front rad -> top rad -> CPU block -> res -> flow meter -> pump. I would flip the front so the ports are on the bottom. In retrospect, maybe I should have gotten a 360GTS cross flow for the front.



Above should be pump -> front rad -> CPU block -> top rad -> res -> flow meter -> pump.

Orange is flow meter, pink is notional reservoir (not selected yet), grey is where pump will go (Watercool D5). That's a placeholder GPU; my real one is a 1080 in this machine that I will move over and keep air cooled unless I find a cheap / used 1080 block somewhere, but eventually I will have a liquid cooled GPU in here. Plan is to use 12 mm hard-tubing. I think I can squeeze a tee-fitting + drain-valve at the bottom near the pump, and then fill from the res.

I'm going to flip all the fans I think as well to turn into a push configuration. The Quadro I will put... somewhere, the molex connector on it is at an awkward angle.

Thoughts on configurations?

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012





My OG plan with my quadro was going to be dedicating a molex plug on my PSU to it by removing the socket and soldering directly to the board contacts, but the situation where I'd have used that config didn't pan out. I ended up command stripping my octo to the lower part of the Ncase's front panel, which puts it right in the little void above the front I/O.

Configuration doesn't matter much for performance, so I'd just go with whatever you have the patience to run. Could you save yourself a bend by going in the bottom of the GPU from the res? I'd basically start by figuring out how to plumb it in the least amount of bends for my sanity sake.

Oh, and it turns out the folks at Pslate were more than happy to sell me a PWM cable pre-pinned for me. I liked it so much I ordered 4 more and I'm gonna rewire my fans with them.

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Warmachine posted:

My OG plan with my quadro was going to be dedicating a molex plug on my PSU to it by removing the socket and soldering directly to the board contacts, but the situation where I'd have used that config didn't pan out. I ended up command stripping my octo to the lower part of the Ncase's front panel, which puts it right in the little void above the front I/O.

Configuration doesn't matter much for performance, so I'd just go with whatever you have the patience to run. Could you save yourself a bend by going in the bottom of the GPU from the res? I'd basically start by figuring out how to plumb it in the least amount of bends for my sanity sake.

Oh, and it turns out the folks at Pslate were more than happy to sell me a PWM cable pre-pinned for me. I liked it so much I ordered 4 more and I'm gonna rewire my fans with them.

Yeah -- I think I would end up optimizing for least number of bends. Just wanted to preplan enough to not get stuck waiting for more fittings from EK. What's the search term / mounting widget for putting a res on the location I want it there?



I guess any bracket with screws + washers will work fine, I'll just bolt it through the vent in the rear.

e: Also, in terms of that rad placement; obviously won't be the highest part of my loop. Should I add a little bleeder valve near the top off a T or something? Or will the air just compress / bleed out in the reservoir?

movax fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Apr 6, 2021

Indiana_Krom
Jun 18, 2007
Net Slacker

movax posted:

e: Also, in terms of that rad placement; obviously won't be the highest part of my loop. Should I add a little bleeder valve near the top off a T or something? Or will the air just compress / bleed out in the reservoir?

D5 pumps at full throttle are insanely fast, the reservoir will catch all the bubbles within a couple minutes of running that pump at full throttle so no need to worry about them. Water loops pretty much always form air bubbles in the high points after a while anyway unless you run a D5 at high throttle the whole time which I don't recommend because that makes them noisy and it accelerates the wear. Air bubbles don't cause any significant impact in performance and you can always flush them out by overriding the pump to 100% for a few minutes with software anyway.

I run my D5 at 35% throttle all the time, once in a while I'll load up a piece of software and toggle it to 100% and it always results in a small amount of air bubbles getting flushed out of my top mounted radiator but it never has an impact on temperatures (coolant or otherwise). Pretty much nothing I do with the pump/fans does has any impact on the loop temperature actually, but if I turn the air conditioning on in my room that has an instant and significant impact so I know the loop is working.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012





movax posted:

Yeah -- I think I would end up optimizing for least number of bends. Just wanted to preplan enough to not get stuck waiting for more fittings from EK. What's the search term / mounting widget for putting a res on the location I want it there?



I guess any bracket with screws + washers will work fine, I'll just bolt it through the vent in the rear.

e: Also, in terms of that rad placement; obviously won't be the highest part of my loop. Should I add a little bleeder valve near the top off a T or something? Or will the air just compress / bleed out in the reservoir?

I mean, theoretically the only fittings you need with hards are the terminal fittings for each item in the loop, since you can make custom bends in your tubing.

The air will work its way to the reservoir--that's the real point of that.

For that particular spot, it looks like the case was made for it? Did your case come with any info on mounting things there? Search terms will start with "<brand> <model> brackets" or reservoir holder. A cursory look at some of EK's tube reservoirs like that it looks as though they're made with single mounting holes. https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-res-x3-250

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Indiana_Krom posted:

D5 pumps at full throttle are insanely fast, the reservoir will catch all the bubbles within a couple minutes of running that pump at full throttle so no need to worry about them. Water loops pretty much always form air bubbles in the high points after a while anyway unless you run a D5 at high throttle the whole time which I don't recommend because that makes them noisy and it accelerates the wear. Air bubbles don't cause any significant impact in performance and you can always flush them out by overriding the pump to 100% for a few minutes with software anyway.

I run my D5 at 35% throttle all the time, once in a while I'll load up a piece of software and toggle it to 100% and it always results in a small amount of air bubbles getting flushed out of my top mounted radiator but it never has an impact on temperatures (coolant or otherwise). Pretty much nothing I do with the pump/fans does has any impact on the loop temperature actually, but if I turn the air conditioning on in my room that has an instant and significant impact so I know the loop is working.

Good to know -- I ended up getting a Vario but am going to leave it as accessible as I can to just stick a screwdriver in to vary the speed if needed. Didn't want to have extra PWM circuitry in the loop if I didn't need it. I'll worry a bit less about the air part now...

Warmachine posted:

I mean, theoretically the only fittings you need with hards are the terminal fittings for each item in the loop, since you can make custom bends in your tubing.

The air will work its way to the reservoir--that's the real point of that.

For that particular spot, it looks like the case was made for it? Did your case come with any info on mounting things there? Search terms will start with "<brand> <model> brackets" or reservoir holder. A cursory look at some of EK's tube reservoirs like that it looks as though they're made with single mounting holes. https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-res-x3-250

That's not my case in that pic but was a good visual to try and point out which area of the case I was thinking. Turns out it's... pretty narrow, I have like 50 mm of width to work with before it might run into the top of a card (since I still have air-cooled poo poo). Since the cards in the lower slots are all full-height but not GPUs, maybe I will turn a res on its side / get a flatter one and just put it on top of the PSU Cage area.

And... good point, I have a minimum set of fittings I know I need so I'll just pull the EK trigger now so I have more and more LEGO bits to play with.

movax fucked around with this message at 15:51 on Apr 7, 2021

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012





I'd also recommend going with a pump-res combo unit. Having them be discrete for anything other than space reasons (and the Meshify C has plenty of space IIRC) is just taking up two mounting points when one will suffice.

Comedy option: hang one of these from the top radiator: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-loop-angled-bracket-120mm

movax
Aug 30, 2008



Warmachine posted:

I'd also recommend going with a pump-res combo unit. Having them be discrete for anything other than space reasons (and the Meshify C has plenty of space IIRC) is just taking up two mounting points when one will suffice.

Comedy option: hang one of these from the top radiator: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-loop-angled-bracket-120mm

I already got a separate pump though I guess I could always to resell the top + switch it to a res. It is very, very crowded for me though... I have an AX1600i at the bottom which really eats into space in the bottom bay. I started more seriously mounting parts in there and oh man, I don't have anywhere near the space I thought I did / nor the ability to actually set up fans in a pusher config for all the rads (top rad will smack right into VRM heatsink on my mobo). Fun!

I'm going to tetris it more this weekend and then do the count of fittings / angled fittings and stuff I need.

Warmachine
Jan 30, 2012





movax posted:

I already got a separate pump though I guess I could always to resell the top + switch it to a res. It is very, very crowded for me though... I have an AX1600i at the bottom which really eats into space in the bottom bay. I started more seriously mounting parts in there and oh man, I don't have anywhere near the space I thought I did / nor the ability to actually set up fans in a pusher config for all the rads (top rad will smack right into VRM heatsink on my mobo). Fun!

I'm going to tetris it more this weekend and then do the count of fittings / angled fittings and stuff I need.

Are you running a microwave with a PCIe connector god drat.

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movax
Aug 30, 2008



Warmachine posted:

Are you running a microwave with a PCIe connector god drat.

I got really really excited watching Jensen pull a 3090 out of the oven ok!?!?

(And it was free)

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