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Mmk, let's kick something off with something light: ratifying some old treaties we have lying around.
UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women UN Convention on the Law of the Sea UN International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights Convention on Cluster Munitions Ottawa Treaty (landmines) The Rome Statute (international criminal court)
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 06:18 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 09:13 |
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More OOC Talk: Having said that, I fully expect all of us are going to have to make some adjustments to fit our own values; Indiana can be part of Libertopia all they want but Mike Pence ain't gonna love my platform, you know? I mean, it's still gotta be fun. IC Talk: Loel posted:Mmk, let's kick something off with something light: ratifying some old treaties we have lying around. Pretty sure treaty ratification is still going to be the Legislature's job once we decide what the Legislature will actually look like. We're drawing up a Constitution, not actually governing. Some points for my fellow delegates to consider:
Therefore I suggest that, before we begin arguing specifics and issues, we should take advantage of the time allotted to us to introduce ourselves and establish our goals to spell out, in the broadest of all possible terms, what issues we want to see addressed before this convention (OOC: that is, to do the "so a week to decide the 10 things to be debated (send a list of your area's top five issues, then I'll create the docket)" bit suggested in the OP). I further suggest that we do so publicly, and I will be doing so herein, though of course this suggestion bears only moral rather than legal weight. To wit, the broad issues with which the people of Libertopia are most concerned and wish to see debated and acted upon at this convention are as follows:
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 06:41 |
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Its a constitutional convention, we can sign things if we want to edit: "Appendix I to the 2nd American Constitution. The following treaties are signed into with force of law, and are not considered a part of the Constitution. A, B C." Loel fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Sep 4, 2016 |
# ? Sep 4, 2016 06:42 |
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Loel posted:Its a constitutional convention, we can sign things if we want to Fair cop, and I'd forgotten about that bit! Still, the Speaker (OP) has said they'd like to put individual issues on the docket, ten in total; I'd say "treaties and international obligations" just became one of the five issues of importance you want to bring up to the convention, hmm?
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 07:05 |
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Fair cop, and I'd forgotten about that bit! Still, the Speaker (OP) has said they'd like to put individual issues on the docket, ten in total; I'd say "treaties and international obligations" just became one of the five issues of importance you want to bring up to the convention, hmm? This is more to pass the time until we get the issue of the week
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 07:08 |
Pragmatic Populist's soundbite posted:I look forward to working with my colleagues to 1) reunify an american people divided by the culture war, 2) correct the under-representation of real, honest, working Americans in governance, 3) increase the freedoms of the states to innovate without an overbearing federal government, 4) rebuild America to it's former greatness, and 5) address the consequences of an unnatural number of natural disasters which are befalling my constituents. Pragmatic Populist's notes to himself posted:
OOC breakdown: 1) Tri-cameral legislature (My future will live or die based on how this does) 2) Social Security 3) Infrastructure bank 4) FEMA on steroids 5) Citizenship
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 08:11 |
Facebook message reply to loel posted:Got the list and letting you know how I feel. We can talk about any disagreements over ratification later.
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 08:38 |
RandomPauI posted:Advisory council 1 elected rep per 100000k people minimum 1. 2 year term You realize that two year terms are garbage right? Unless you intend to drastically alter the manner in which elections are run so that you don't spend 75% of your time raising funds for re-election instead of actually legislating.
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 11:15 |
Olothreutes posted:You realize that two year terms are garbage right? Unless you intend to drastically alter the manner in which elections are run so that you don't spend 75% of your time raising funds for re-election instead of actually legislating. It is contingent on other electoral reforms going through.
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 11:34 |
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RagnarokAngel posted:but it's literally IN new england! This will not stand, New England delegation's first order of business is to fix this outrage. CT Demand: Split the state like Solomon and the baby! Litchfield and Fairfield counties to NYC, the rest can be for New England.
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 12:36 |
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As a community leader in Cleveland, I would remind the delegations to remember the federal nature of our government. As it was in 1787, all agreements must be ratified by the 50 states. Any attempts to legislate controversial issues will likely result in state rejection. I ask that the delegates exercise restraint and caution throughout this process. I also ask that each delegation keep their colleagues interests in mind, so that this discussion can avoid red lines and unnecessary battles. As a proud Ohioan, I would ask the Libertopian delegation fight for the following:
If an alternate is needed, I would be happy to participate. Until that time, I will comment on the proceedings and provide an outlet for the people's concerns. also, puerto rico should totes be allowed to participate
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 13:57 |
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Thats a good point. OP, can we assume whatever we come up with becomes the law of the land?
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 14:01 |
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Oh, and I would encourage the delegates to work out broad principles before focusing on minutia. As you all know, it is often easier to build consensus on a general philosophy of government than it is to build a philosophy out of several dozen inconsistent policy ideas. If I were to organize debate, I would go in the following order.
Once you have have determined the relationship between the people, states, and federal government, you can go about developing a system to enshrine that relationship. Once that system of governance is developed, you can reaffirm or create particular civil rights. Once those civil rights are developed, you can see if you can form any consensus on economic issues. That's just my suggestion. I would hate to see the body get bogged down on an issue like, say, the National Bird when it hasn't yet figured out who should be represented in Congress. Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:Obviously. Also I see you sneakdooring "churches can engage in political speech" up there I have nothing but the best intentions for this country and all its citizens. QuoProQuid fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Sep 4, 2016 |
# ? Sep 4, 2016 16:16 |
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Loel posted:Thats a good point. Obviously. Also I see you sneakdooring "churches can engage in political speech" up there
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 16:19 |
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Here's some of the top issues facing Cascadia today: Equal Housing: As many people find refuge in the west coast, the ability to find an affordable house has greatly diminished. This is causing serious gentrification in cities like Seattle, Portland and San Francisco. This forcing people to move out of the city. There needs to be a plan that's fair to all that allows people to live within the cities but not also create a massive housing shortage. That leads to the next point... Comprehensive infrastructure: Los Angeles, San Francisco and Seattle are ranked 1, 2, and 4 in the worst traffic in America respectively. Part of this is due to a lack of alternative options besides roads roads and more roads. While alternative options exist, it's nowhere near acceptable, and plans to build up rail won't be ready anytime soon. In addition, our current highways are already failing. LGBTQ* Rights: Cascadia is gay. Like, super gay. San Fran is the LGBTQ capital of the world, and we have a right as Americans to ensure that they maintain strong rights beyond marriage (equal employment / housing opportunities, banning of gay conversion therapy, etc etc.). Free trade: Cascadia is on the coast, and port operations are a strong driver of economic activity. This is driven by trading with outside nations, and free trade is important to that. Also, activities like the Ex-Im bank help allow foreign countries to purchase our products. Laws to support the tech sector: We have Silicon Valley, and require strong IP / patent laws to ensure our creations are made fairly and not stolen with ease. Tribal Rights: Cascadia is home to many native tribes that struggle to maintain footing against the oppression of Americans. We need to ensure they maintain strong tribal sovereignty and access to government help to keep them afloat. And last but not least... Legalize weed: I don't give a hot g*y gently caress what congress says.
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 17:25 |
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As a resident of the fine city of Tampa, I hope that my CSA delegate to the Constitutional Convention doesn't forget that Hispanics are, in fact, people too. Thank you.
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 17:30 |
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The representative of the csa is of course aware of this fact and would like to suggest that we recognize that all people currently living in the us at the time this constitution is ratified be recognized as US citizens, provided they are not considered a citizen of another nation. Furthermore, we would suggest any child born to a us citizen is also a us citizen, regardless of where they are born. However, we would like to suggest we firmly establish border security as a responsibility of the federal government, with the armed forces being the main force used to police them. OCC: I guess florida conservative that knows he can't alienate his states latino population and ever be re-elected to anything is how I'm going. Idk, gotta figure out how to dogwhistle in the constitution.
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 19:25 |
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seiferguy posted:Here's some of the top issues facing Cascadia today: As an Oregon Onion, I don't see how some of these are structural constitutional issues and not for the legislature... LGBTQ rights, IP reform*, tribal rights, even flying weed legalization over the head of the legislature sound great to me, but equal housing, comprehensive infrastructure, and especially free trade definitely belong under the more flexible jurisdiction and judgement of the legislature instead of enshrined as the way to do things for hundreds of years in the constitution. Can you imagine if, like, the Monroe Doctrine snuck its way into an amendment or some poo poo? * Although IP needs reformed in the opposite direction, drastically, for creative works. poo poo's a loving mess. (I just want sampling back in hip-hop honestly.) Also, I'll echo what I've seen said here already: The judicial branch is the most well-functioning branch of the entire US government, especially when you include the Bill of Rights, which makes sense because the constitution was written by a bunch of lawyers. It doesn't need much, if any, changing. (Prison for profit needs to die though.)
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 19:36 |
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OOC -- It's actually going to be really hard to roleplay this, because an actual Constitutional Convention would result in the red states' wet dreams being passed over the strong but completely irrelevant objections of the blue states.The NCR up there wouldn't recognize LGBT people (no marriage, no protections, etc.) and they'd get the War on Drugs into the Constitution etc. Nevermind what they'd do to Cascadia in terms of water use rights (hint: they wouldn't exist anymore, federally) no matter how stupid it would be for them to have to take on that at the regional/state level. They'd gut the Supreme Court's authority to rule on almost anything as well.
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 20:26 |
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Chwoka posted:As an Oregon Onion, I don't see how some of these are structural constitutional issues and not for the legislature... LGBTQ rights, IP reform*, tribal rights, even flying weed legalization over the head of the legislature sound great to me, but equal housing, comprehensive infrastructure, and especially free trade definitely belong under the more flexible jurisdiction and judgement of the legislature instead of enshrined as the way to do things for hundreds of years in the constitution. Can you imagine if, like, the Monroe Doctrine snuck its way into an amendment or some poo poo? I would sum up the LGBQ* issue as an "Expanded Equal Rights Amendment".
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 22:20 |
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Peztopiary posted:OOC -- It's actually going to be really hard to roleplay this, because an actual Constitutional Convention would result in the red states' wet dreams being passed over the strong but completely irrelevant objections of the blue states.The NCR up there wouldn't recognize LGBT people (no marriage, no protections, etc.) and they'd get the War on Drugs into the Constitution etc. Nevermind what they'd do to Cascadia in terms of water use rights (hint: they wouldn't exist anymore, federally) no matter how stupid it would be for them to have to take on that at the regional/state level. They'd gut the Supreme Court's authority to rule on almost anything as well. Yeah, I presume that's why the Founders (tm) made it so we need 5/10+1 of each region, as opposed to 2/3 of all states, for that reason.
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 22:20 |
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I understand Hawaii got swallowed up (by the east coast of all things) but if Texas can have its own thing, I'd like to represent Hawaii. Hell, give me all of the Pacific territories while we're at it. Aloha, motherfuckers.
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 22:38 |
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I will admit having 11 regions would make votes easier.
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 22:45 |
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seiferguy posted:Comprehensive infrastructure: Los Angeles, San Francisco and Seattle are ranked 1, 2, and 4 in the worst traffic in America respectively. Part of this is due to a lack of alternative options besides roads roads and more roads. While alternative options exist, it's nowhere near acceptable, and plans to build up rail won't be ready anytime soon. In addition, our current highways are already failing. As a resident of the jewel of the CSA, Atlanta, this is issue number one for me
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# ? Sep 4, 2016 23:44 |
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Looks like that would be a 3.6 trillion dollar project http://www.wired.com/2015/01/time-fix-americas-infrastructure-heres-start/ Edit: Thats using 2010 dollars http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/a/#p/grade-sheet/americas-infrastructure-investment-needs , so it would cost more like 4T Loel fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Sep 5, 2016 |
# ? Sep 4, 2016 23:59 |
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Rafza posted:I understand Hawaii got swallowed up (by the east coast of all things) but if Texas can have its own thing, I'd like to represent Hawaii. Hell, give me all of the Pacific territories while we're at it. Well then, lightning round time. Delegates have until 12:00am Tuesday morning (Pacific) to vote on this issue! I'm sending a form via PM, please don't break it. OOC: Does anyone have an idea for how to effectively do polls and share them with the 10(11 soon?) posters? The PM system for SA is bunk because I have to send 10 messages, can't use commas in the recipients line. I guess GMail would work, but I don't have everyone's email yet.
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 00:09 |
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The Mafia games have one, let me check how they do it. edit: So far Ive found quote:-To format your vote please type "##vote targetname" in bold ( [ b ] to bold, without the spaces, [ /b ] to close tags). ##unvote if you wish to remove your vote from someone but not put it on someone else yet. edit 2: It looks like there is a bot that posts votes? https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3787500&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=8 Scroll down to 'votefinder' edit 3: instructions here https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3729528#post447371443 but the person I asked said its down at the moment. Loel fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Sep 5, 2016 |
# ? Sep 5, 2016 00:12 |
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Tidewater is in strong support of this resolution. I'll be making an introductory post with a 101 guide to the states of Tidewater, our priorities as a region (for which I, again, encourage residents to get on the horn and pester me about), and other such cruft, probably tomorrow. In the meantime, while an Islands and Territories bloc wouldn't be as populous as the others, all Americans should be represented at a Constitutional Convention of this sort. They can also represent the expat community if you like.
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 00:41 |
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Aside from the status of where CT lies, My important issue as a resident of NYC/NE is this: Mandatory service upon reaching the age of 18, but allow for service to be done through non military government institutions (Teach for America, Peace Corps, bring back the TVA, etc) And fix the loving Tappan Zee already!!
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 00:50 |
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HiHo ChiRho posted:Aside from the status of where CT lies, My important issue as a resident of NYC/NE is this:
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 00:55 |
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:Would you go so far as to say Service Guarantees Citizenship? I would like to know more.
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 00:56 |
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Since a few people have mentioned it...quote:Appendix I to the 2nd American Constitution. 1/6 Votes (RandomPaul) UN Convention on the Rights of the Child UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women UN Convention on the Law of the Sea UN International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights 0/6 Votes Convention on Cluster Munitions Ottawa Treaty The Rome Statute quote:Appendix II to the 2nd American Constitution. 0/6 votes random paul, seiferguy, xiahou dun, cat_herder? Loel fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Sep 5, 2016 |
# ? Sep 5, 2016 01:05 |
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HiHo ChiRho posted:Aside from the status of where CT lies, My important issue as a resident of NYC/NE is this: They're actually halfway through building a brand new bridge right next to it. I pass it whenever I take Metro-North/am hideously and probably eventually fatally distracted by it whenever I drive across. Also my current things to lobby for are (in no order and just to let my constituents know where I'm at) : infrastructure, universal rights, police reform, gun control, a real loving railway system god drat, education reform (especially at the college level ; your fault for letting an adjunct lecturer hold office), and some other poo poo that isn't springing to mind. Full write-up on Tuesday when I'm in my office and not on a phone. Feel free to remind me of something I'm missing. Maybe selling Jersey to France???? O do we want to cross link to LAN threads, or will that just end in us all getting drowned in requests?
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 01:38 |
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Xiahou Dun posted:a real loving railway system god drat Metro Fuckin North posted:The Catenary Replacement Project Never mind that the branch lines in CT are one track only for the most part, or that they have no electrical lines and rely on the archaic diesel trains. And when inclement weather comes along and those lines go down, the branch lines get bus service via NYC metro buses along windy hilly CT roads not meant for them and the main line gets the ol' reliable diesel trains that is why I drink and take the Harlem line now. Also gently caress, no more bar cars.
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 01:48 |
backdoor communication to loel posted:You know I support this, but my voters are knee-jerk against this. Publicly we'll both have to sell this hard and somehow bullshit an explanation about how this won't raise taxes and here are the safeguards we'll put in place to make sure that the locals spend the money as they see fit but also that there's complete transparency so no waste and so on. But I'll still take a hit and if I'm taking a hit I'll want something back.
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 01:57 |
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Also, for people who want trains, the Amtrak Northeast corridor upgrade would cost 150B. https://www.amtrak.com/ccurl/453/325/Amtrak-Vision-for-the-Northeast-Corridor.pdf
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 01:58 |
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As much as I love trains, transportation networks seem like a matter for an eventual legislature. It would set a dangerous precedent to enshrine pork-barrel projects into the national constitution.
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 02:02 |
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Thats why I have sections for 'this only counts as a law' or 'the govt will do x, with a 2016 budget of y'
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 02:03 |
I'm ok with the military having a hand in disaster response. I'm already for nationalizing the police and ending the war on drugs in favor of legalization/evidence-based harm reduction. Expanding public transportation, and rail in particular, is also a huge deal. Yes, it'll be expensive, but look at all the jobs it'll create. the NCR is going to be a land-use and natural resources mess, so give me some time to read various state land management websites. I also encourage my constituents to talk about how land use affects them. also also: Native American rights, and can we just give the tribes as much land as they want and then work around them? (I'm trying to speed-read the treaties and will add my votes to those in a bit)
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 02:07 |
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# ? Apr 26, 2024 09:13 |
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QuoProQuid posted:As much as I love trains, transportation networks seem like a matter for an eventual legislature. It would set a dangerous precedent to enshrine pork-barrel projects into the national constitution. You would think this, and then we get into situations like now where legislature sits with a thumb under their rear end since transportation is always a boondoggle. I, as a citizen of NYC am giving specific reasoning for why comprehensive transportation reform is important. I don't expect this congress to get everything written to a T about MTA and Metro North's problems, but I do expect that infrastructure be embedded into the constitution to ensure that future legislatures know that by neglecting them is unconstitutional. Which they are now, and have been
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# ? Sep 5, 2016 02:11 |