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Yeah I think Blackquill is done a lot better. He usually has a reasonable argument why the court should still find your client guilty and he isn't constantly pulling bullshit like Klavier is.
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Mar 27, 2021 22:05
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Waffleman_ posted:I mean, I agree on this, but he was a snotnosed little kid who thought he was gonna be exposing a legend of the legal world as a fraud on his first ever trial. It'd be fair if it was his only fault, but at the time we get to see that case he's already done a lot of sleazy poo poo as an established adult prosecutor. Including trying very hard to suppress Apollo's findings about the murder of a man who was the very surprise witness that launched his career. I know the intended reading is that Klavier only made the connection by the second day of the trial and hadn't seriously thought about it for the previous seven years, but I choose the less charitable interpretation. SyntheticPolygon posted:They didn't know how to write a prosecutor who was a good dude but still have him provide a challenge so while they didn't have him actually train witnesses or anything Klavier still goes along with or aids a witnesses lies and then when you point out the contradictions anyway the game has him act like that's what he was hoping would happen. Blackquill certainly pulled it off better than Klavier, but Godot was a prosecutor who had already been written at that point and also did a much better job at playing fair.
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Mar 27, 2021 22:06
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Did Godot play fair? Like he absolutely just went along with the witnesses lies or whatever because he never wanted to find the truth or catch the criminal. He just wanted to gently caress over Phoenix Wright.
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Mar 27, 2021 22:10
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It's not the crux of his character, but he totally does. The cases involving him are written in such a way where you only successfully implicate the actual killer at the very end, and build up a pile of circumstancial claims up 'till then. He genuinely believes the defendant is guilty until then. I think Ron DeLite still gets a guilty sentence in 2-2 if you mess up the last testimony there, but that one I'm willing to chalk up to gameplay contrivance since all the text preceding it says you've proven his innocence and the only thing that remains is whether you can nail the guilty party before he gets to slide into a cover of Double Jeopardy.
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Mar 27, 2021 22:27
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If he was paying attention case 3-3 for even a couple of minutes and don't come out thinking Furio Tigre is involved then Godot's gotta be way dumber than I think he is.
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Mar 27, 2021 22:30
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hold on, you like godot the sexist rear end in a top hat but dislike klavier? these are some hot AA takes coming out
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Mar 27, 2021 22:41
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That's a fair point. He is the one who makes Tigre show up in court at all and accepts that he was the fake Phoenix when it's pointed out, to his credit. He then contends that that isn't absolute proof that he committed a murder, which isn't wrong. E: Amppelix posted:hold on, you like godot the sexist rear end in a top hat but dislike klavier? these are some hot AA takes coming out You bet I do! I take the Barney Stinson approach to media: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRAe87_fvjI (And Godot, for his personal failings, is a hell of a lot better at being a prosecutor than Klavier ever could be) Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Mar 27, 2021 |
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Mar 27, 2021 22:41
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Yeah but that's because he doesn't give a poo poo. He acknowledges Tigre passed off as an attorney to get the defendant a guilty verdict and is now trying to argue that doesn't mean he had anything to do with the crime. Like, the reason why Godot's great is because he's an rear end in a top hat who just wants to beat that loser Phoenix Wright. He doesn't care about doing the right thing or whatever, he's just a self-centered prick. E: I agree Godot's a better prosecutor than Klav but that's not because he "plays fair" or anything. It's because he's prosecuting out of a personal grudge against the protagonist and the game never tries to pretend that he's your greatest ally in the courtroom even though he's spent most of the trial trying to gently caress you over. SyntheticPolygon fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Mar 27, 2021 |
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Mar 27, 2021 22:48
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Yeah, but that doesn't mean he's wrong. He makes the very valid point that people's lives are decided in trials, and then pushes Phoenix to prove his case beyond a shadow of a doubt. Which may just be a rationalization on his part, but that's the closest anyone comes to pointing out that whomever the defense implicates is looking at a death sentence or life in jail at best. I can see why they didn't wanna retread his MO because his only moves are "Oh yeah? loving prove it!" and "whatever, let's hear another testimony," but I think they worked better than any of the subsequent 'honest' prosecutors'. Plus, at the end, he indirectly admits that a lot of tragedy could be avoided if he'd been less sexist, which I respect. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Mar 27, 2021 |
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Mar 27, 2021 23:03
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Genuinely questioning your interpretation of Godot if you think he's coming into a court case hoping for Phoenix to prove his case beyond a shadow of a doubt. This is a guy who wakes up from a coma and immediately changes his job to prosecutor in order to defeat his girlfriend's apprentice in a fight. I just don't think he comes off like he genuinely believes the defendants guilty when the sole reason he steps into a courtroom is to humiliate Phoenix Wright. Like, that's his primary motivation. I'm not trying to say Godot's this shady dishonest guy and I think he's a good prosecutor, i like Blackquill more but Godot's good too. I just think he's a funny character to point to as the example of a guy that plays fair and genuinely believes in the defendants guilt. Especially that last part.
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Mar 27, 2021 23:30
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Does he ever play dirty? He never tries to hide facts or silence witnesses, and he accepts all of Phoenix' claims once they've been proven to his satisfaction. I'm not saying he sets out to be a prosecutor because he has faith in the judicial system and strives for a fair verdict, but he winds up playing that part at least as well as Reformed Edgeworth and Blackquill. My read is that he convinces himself that the defendant must be guilty because he needs that to be true to beat Phoenix, but he proceeds from there without resorting to ratfuckery. His goal is to prove that Phoenix sucks, but he only wins if he beats him in a fair fight.
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Mar 28, 2021 00:05
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Godot's arc and motif are cool, 3-5 is super cool and he has one of the funniest prosecutor moments in the series when he's all "mate why didn't anyone tell me about the stain, what the gently caress" in 3-3 and everyone just awkwardly stares at him like he has three heads. I liked Klav too, some awkward writing aside he was a bro which was refreshing after the first three games. Really the AA6 prosecutor is the only one who's just a big old hot trashy mess
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Mar 28, 2021 00:10
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Nahyuta is probably the actual worst prosecutor, but I still really appreciate him cracking Rakugo jokes after a day's worth of preparation and "what's crackalacking, homies?"
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Mar 28, 2021 00:25
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He’s not my favourite but I do like Nahyuta
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Mar 28, 2021 00:41
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I can't stand him. I wish I'd never played aa6 because of how bad a taste he left in my mouth My tier list of prosecutors: S: Edgeworth von Karma Blackquill Godot Franziska Klavier Byrne Faraday Winston Payne Gaspen Payne Professor Layton that one time A: B: C: D: F: Nahyuta
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Mar 28, 2021 00:56
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i like him in theory, the premise is fine, but they forgot to write interesting comebacks or funny bits for 90% of his lines and instead just reused the same template with slight variations
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Mar 28, 2021 01:04
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Wouldn't it be funny if I threatened to murder you constantly in a court of law?
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Mar 28, 2021 01:10
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Okay, now rank our unwitting sidekicks (Maya, Trudy, Athena). Not sure if Pearl and Gumshoe count.
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Mar 28, 2021 01:14
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There's also the part in case 4 where he triggers Athena for no real good reason. Like what the gently caress dude. And we're still supposed to think he's not a total rear end in a top hat when the big reveal happens later.
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Mar 28, 2021 01:15
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flavor.flv posted:Professor Layton that one time If we're admitting that game into the running, there's not really a contest for best prosecutor. Edgeworth and everyone else get to where they are through years of study and various degrees of deeply personal self-examinations. Zach has never even heard of a logical construct before meeting you, and starts loving your poo poo up minutes after learning how a lawyer operates. You may like others more as characters, but I don't think anyone can compete with that. E: The best sidekick is Franziska in 3-5, obviously. Also no contest.
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Mar 28, 2021 01:18
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Nahyuta and Godot are my personal favorites, but likely because i like those games the best. RocknRoll Jesus' guitar riff hasnt left my brain in 5 years
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Mar 28, 2021 01:24
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flavor.flv posted:I can't stand him. I wish I'd never played aa6 because of how bad a taste he left in my mouth phew yeah nahyuta is hands down the worst prosecutor. worse than winston payne. worse than winston payne who is unapologetically excited for phoenix wright to be executed.
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Mar 28, 2021 01:58
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Amppelix posted:hold on, you like godot the sexist rear end in a top hat but dislike klavier? these are some hot AA takes coming out yes. you can like characters you don't morally align with irl...
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Mar 28, 2021 02:48
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Amppelix posted:hold on, you like godot the sexist rear end in a top hat but dislike klavier? these are some hot AA takes coming out Godot is morally a better person than Klavier
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Mar 28, 2021 03:00
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Dongicus posted:yes. you can like characters you don't morally align with irl...
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Mar 28, 2021 03:19
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Godot explicitly acknowledges that what he was doing and his attitude to Mia were wrong at the end of the game. It's OK for a character to do bad things. The issue with Klavier is that he does bad things due to gameplay contrivance even though that doesn't seem to fit his character as presented.
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Mar 28, 2021 03:22
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Amppelix posted:sure, but i do not like how the story wants me to feel bad for the guy who tells franziska to stay in the kitchen I mean that negative character trait is also part of why he ended up having a tragic fall in the first place. His sexism is directly tied to his motive in wanting to be the big manly man who saves the day and thus helps cause Misty Fey's death.
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Mar 28, 2021 03:28
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Amppelix posted:i like him in theory, the premise is fine, but they forgot to write interesting comebacks or funny bits for 90% of his lines and instead just reused the same template with slight variations Maybe if he was a little less aggro on defense attorneys when he was outside of Khura'in (and thus presumably under less scrutiny) because he didn't really believe the government's line and was just doing it to appease Garan and keep Rayfa safe it would have been better for him as a character and would have been foreshadowing for that particular plot point. Waffleman_ posted:Wouldn't it be funny if I threatened to murder you constantly in a court of law? Prosecutors in Japanifornia are just allowed to get away with anything that isn't literally murder. Commander Keene fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Mar 28, 2021 |
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Mar 28, 2021 03:32
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Dr Pepper posted:I mean that negative character trait is also part of why he ended up having a tragic fall in the first place. His sexism is directly tied to his motive in wanting to be the big manly man who saves the day and thus helps cause Misty Fey's death.
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Mar 28, 2021 03:40
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Godot explicitly acknowledges that what he was doing and his attitude to Mia were wrong at the end of the game. It's OK for a character to do bad things. The issue with Klavier is that he does bad things due to gameplay contrivance even though that doesn't seem to fit his character as presented. Well Klavier is smug and a diva, but he cares much less about winning then previous prosecutors. Though he is probably my least favourite.
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Mar 28, 2021 03:41
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Commander Keene posted:Yeah he was all right but his "Accept it and move on" schtick got old quickly, as did the game's "lawyers are evil" bit.
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Mar 28, 2021 03:43
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MonsterEnvy posted:Blackquill did not have a sword, that was just his hand.
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Mar 28, 2021 03:47
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Amppelix posted:yes i understand how the story works. writing a sexist character is not a mistake. but i think they try to excuse him a bit too much at the end and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. like did they have to have both phoenix and maya go "oh no it wasn't your fault poor mr. godot!!!" while he still continues to be mildly sexist even throughout his final speech about how he hosed it all up Dude is going to prison and Maya knows he was likely gonna be her brother-in-law, he’s getting a loving consolation medal lol
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Mar 28, 2021 03:55
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Doesn't the end card for T&T imply he just dies immediately after?
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Mar 28, 2021 04:02
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https://twitter.com/PaulyKoaly/status/1375903653589028866?s=20
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Mar 28, 2021 04:03
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Imo Blackquill is the single greatest triumph of the localization team. A young white British man obsessed with Samurai tradition is infinitely more hilarious than a young Japanese man obsessed with Samurai tradition.
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Mar 28, 2021 04:08
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Commander Keene posted:I mean, Franziska constantly assaulted anyone who didn't instantly agree with everything she said. Blackquill, a literal convicted felon on death row, was somehow allowed both a sword and a falcon in the courtroom. Even Godot slung full cups of hot coffee when things weren't going his way. back when humans used to have critical thinking skills, we called this "slapstick humor." franzy's whippity-whip trip is no different from the three stooges getting their heads knocked together to foley made of pots and pans. "i can't wait to see you die and feel your blood pooling in my cupped palms." that's not funny. Irony Be My Shield posted:Doesn't the end card for T&T imply he just dies immediately after? yeah he is not long for this world, he's lively but that visor is basically a futuristic life support machine keeping his dead body in one piece Fur20 fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Mar 28, 2021 |
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Mar 28, 2021 04:17
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Doesn't the end card for T&T imply he just dies immediately after? Oh he’s super dead but he’s going to prison in the short term
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Mar 28, 2021 04:31
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Yeah, it's cheap, but part of why they go easy on Godot's awfulness is that he's gonna die real soon. Though now I wonder if he died without knowing Phoenix got the biggest L, or if he went out with a smile.
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Mar 28, 2021 04:47
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MorningMoon posted:Yeah, it's cheap, but part of why they go easy on Godot's awfulness is that he's gonna die real soon. Though now I wonder if he died without knowing Phoenix got the biggest L, or if he went out with a smile. Godot’s grudge was over at that point, if he found out he was probably real devastated that somebody he ultimately accepted as carrying on Mia’s legacy turned out to cheat.
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Mar 28, 2021 04:53
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