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DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013





What is this game?
American McGee's Alice is a "dark reimagining" of the original Alice In Wonderland story, where Alice indirectly causes the firery deaths of her parents and is thrown into Rutlidges Insane Asylum, comatose. Years later she is reunited with her pet stuffed rabbit, causing her to spiral into a nightmare version of Wonderland where she must cut, stab, and burn her way back to sanity.

Who will be playing it?
I will be doing the actual playing, but I am happy to announce that we have our very own grimlock_master and Miz Kriss as co-commentators! They will be alternating sections, so each update will be labeled with their respective names. This will be a much more casual LP compared to my previous ones, far more tangential at least.

How will the updates go?
The plan right now is for one 10-15 minute episode to be put up every weekday.

What's the spoilers policy for this thread?
Since this is less of a plot-heavy story I don't mind people talking about things like weapon pickups, monsters, or symbology, but I ask that major plot points be at least spoiler tagged.

grimlock_master
Episode 1: Snicker-snack!
Episode 2: Pepper Spray-based Superpowers
Episode 3: Back to Skool
Episode 4: The One Where We Fall A Lot
Episode 5: Extremely Dense Leaves

Miz Kriss
Episode 6: Extra Spicy
Episode 7: Twisty Turvey Branches
Episode 8: Smoking is Bad
Episode 9: White Goes First

Solo
Episode 10: Ill-advised Solo Career
Episode 11: Whateverwheel
Episode 12: Game Of Thrones
Episode 13: House Of Mirrors
Episode 14: Tweedle Deedle Dumb
Episode 15: Stopped Clock
Episode 16: Eye For An Eye
Episode 17: Journal (Part 1)
Episode 18: Journal (Part 2)
Episode 19: Even More Reading
Episode 20: Jumping Like Clockwork
Episode 21: Gamut
Episode 22: Happy Ending


Bonus
Bonus Video: Weapons

DreamShipWrecked fucked around with this message at Nov 18, 2016 around 03:29

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DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



Please note that due to technical issues the first set of Grimlock's videos will have him slightly quiet, this is intentional.

grimlock_master
Nov 1, 2013


DreamShipWrecked posted:

Please note that due to technical issues the first set of Grimlock's videos will have him slightly quiet, this is intentional.

It's not like I had anything important to say

DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



grimlock_master posted:

It's not like I had anything important to say

It's important to me.

sebzilla
Mar 17, 2009

Kid's blasting everything in sight with that new-fangled musket.


The aesthetics of this game are awesome (although the controls are a bit shut) and I was sad that Tim Burton's Alice stuff didn't come close to the weirdness.

DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



sebzilla posted:

The aesthetics of this game are awesome (although the controls are a bit shut) and I was sad that Tim Burton's Alice stuff didn't come close to the weirdness.

I still can't believe that we got that nonsense rather than a proper movie based on this game. The best we get are some not that great Kickstarted animation shorts

Miz Kriss
Mar 17, 2009


I didn't mind the Tim Burton movie too much. I did like that Alice made her own decisions at the end. However, there are better Alice based movies out there, both whose titles I can't recall at the moment.

Randabis
Apr 2, 2005





Nice start to a classic game. It seems like the video ends abruptly though like you're missing a few minutes at the end.

Also I think the in game volume could be raised a hair, especially during cutscenes.

DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



Update! Episode 2: Pepper Spray-based Superpowers

Randabis posted:

Nice start to a classic game. It seems like the video ends abruptly though like you're missing a few minutes at the end.

Also I think the in game volume could be raised a hair, especially during cutscenes.

I will admit that I haven't done collab videos in a while so these first few ones are a bit...rough. I keep missing the timer. All the gameplay is there, I might just have had to edit out the rest of a thought or whatever.

This one has a slight echo to it that I couldn't get out, hopefully it isn't too annoying.

I can see about balancing the game out a bit more, sure. I generally bring it down across the board because it can get incredibly loud at times (rushing water, etc) but I can be more specific with the next set.

DreamShipWrecked fucked around with this message at Sep 13, 2016 around 02:16

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.


Oh hey, this is the actually good one. Shame Madness Returns turned out as boring as it did.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015


For what it's worth I enjoy watching other people play Alice: Madness Returns, and so far am enjoying watching this game be played. I think though that this game seems more polished, whilst Madness Returns comes across as having more impressive set-pieces.

The giant section from Madness Returns is really great for instance.

DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



Madness Returned is kind of an odd duck. They tried having a lot of symbolism and a real plot, but because they just had to put in more complex combat as well the sections drag on and on, with the story bits somewhat few and far between. So many baby heads...

I really liked the plot of Madness Returns, it just had too much...stuff. Too many high health enemies, too many collectables, etc

Alexeythegreat
Apr 18, 2015

I shall devour your soul.


Grimey Drawer

I liked Madness Returns

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.


It just felt really long and empty to me. This one has much better pacing.

CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008


Alexeythegreat posted:

I liked Madness Returns

Same here, though i admit that's partially because I thought the costumes looked really cool

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015


I must admit that the combat in Madness Returns looks more fun or possibly just better flowing than this game, but having not played either that might just be that I like God of War combat and Madness Returns looks like it's pretty close to that. It's also a really pretty game when it wants to be, and suitably gross when necessary, but that might be because of technical limitations.

The collectables also probably wouldn't bother me because I love games with lots of things to find and collect.

DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



I certainly don't think Madness Returns is a bad game, it's just over-padded. It's something that would probably be looked at more favorably if this game didn't exist, since this is more tight and creepy.

There were certainly some good sections, and the London parts were really well done imo even if they were just walking sims.

I don't think something like the original could be AA-made anymore without some serious branding i.e. Doom. But who knows?

DreamShipWrecked fucked around with this message at Sep 13, 2016 around 12:20

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007

Mary Worth had an illicit affair with Refurb and kidnapped Sophie when she learned the truth. Little did Sophie know, but she was held in Apartment 3G under the watchful eye of The Phantom until Dick Tracy rescued her. Meanwhile, in spite of everything, Working Daze still sucked.


anilEhilated posted:

Oh hey, this is the actually good one. Shame Madness Returns turned out as boring as it did.
I was really looking forward to Madness Returns and I was so disappointed with it when it came out. The biggest thing for me was that the weapons - by far my favourite thing about the original - were just poo poo. And I found the umbrella really awkward to use with the default controls, but changing the controls made it not work, and the response given by the developers at the time was basically "it's fine, just don't change the key for the umbrella".

Lord_Magmar posted:

I must admit that the combat in Madness Returns looks more fun or possibly just better flowing than this game, but having not played either that might just be that I like God of War combat and Madness Returns looks like it's pretty close to that.
I much prefer the combat in the original, partly because of the weapons but also because Madness Returns has those sort of enemies where you need to do a specific counter-move to them rather than letting you just do it your own way.

DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



Today we go to skool!

Episode 3: Back to Skool

WombatCyborg
Apr 2, 2011


God, I love the way the game nails this otherworldly atmosphere. It almost feels like a bad acid trip.

Speaking of, notice the layout of the save screen.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015


Tiggum posted:

I was really looking forward to Madness Returns and I was so disappointed with it when it came out. The biggest thing for me was that the weapons - by far my favourite thing about the original - were just poo poo. And I found the umbrella really awkward to use with the default controls, but changing the controls made it not work, and the response given by the developers at the time was basically "it's fine, just don't change the key for the umbrella".

I much prefer the combat in the original, partly because of the weapons but also because Madness Returns has those sort of enemies where you need to do a specific counter-move to them rather than letting you just do it your own way.

The umbrella thing I'll agree is pretty stupid, if you're going to have a block function it should be a unique button not a combination of buttons. But the weapons in Madness Returns all have a clear use and function really well for that use, and when used correctly are all really strong at that use. The Knife is fast melee, the Horse strong melee, the Pepper-pot fast range and the Tea-cannon strong ranged. The game generally tries to get you to use these in combination to deal with combat. This is also why the enemies have specific ways to fight them, so that the game itself is more mechanically interesting. Compare to what we currently have in this game, where the cards are being described as somewhat useless even though they're designed to be the primary method of ranged combat, the Knife and Croquet mallet are both really strong because they can do range and melee and the demon is just sort of there, if very fun.

Admittedly game-play preferences are all very personal opinions so whilst I may like the style of combat Alice:Madness Returns is trying for that doesn't mean everyone has to. It's also not a particularly well done version of that gameplay style either, admittedly. God of War 3 is probably my favourite version of that particularly combat system and it also has problems.

I also want to defend the dresses in Madness Returns a little, as having looked them up none of them bar the Cheshire Cat themed dress, the Straitjacket and the Queen dress could be considered particularly skin-tight. Of these two of them are visually disturbing anyway and the other is the Cheshire Cat, who is intentionally made quite sleek and skinny in the series. Plus the dresses in general being slightly sexy and a little fetishistic is very fitting considering what the villain of the game is planning to do, and Wonderland and her clothing are meant to reflect her current mood/thoughts. Which is also why the dresses change for each world.

Finally I looked it up and Alice is 18 in this game, 19 in the second and 20 for the cartoons. Officially at least.

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at Sep 14, 2016 around 09:46

CommissarMega
Nov 18, 2008


I dunno; maybe I'm a little gayer than I think I am, but I don't think the majority of the Madness Returns costumes are sexy at all. I suppose the Caterpillar costume might be, if you're into bare shoulders.

DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



Fair enough points on the dresses, I mean more that they were a bit more than the base one that we have in this game. They certainly go through measures to make sure that Alice isn't titillating, which for the time is somewhat novel.

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


If you're gonna have a death reel and a look-at-enemies reel, you'll also a need a weapons idle reel too.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007

Mary Worth had an illicit affair with Refurb and kidnapped Sophie when she learned the truth. Little did Sophie know, but she was held in Apartment 3G under the watchful eye of The Phantom until Dick Tracy rescued her. Meanwhile, in spite of everything, Working Daze still sucked.


I decided to give Madness Returns another shot today, and although I didn't play for long I did remember a bunch of other stuff I hated about it. Like the "autosaves only" system, so if you fail the last in a sequence of jumps then you have to redo the whole lot. And how buggy/inconsistent the game systems are in general - sometimes hitting space in mid-air makes you gain a bit of altitude before gliding, sometimes you go right to gliding, and at one point I got stuck on the pepper grinder and couldn't use the knife till I opened and closed the menu. And I was constantly getting disoriented, because when you lock on to enemies you get all turned around and lose track of which direction you were originally facing. And the default control scheme is awful - Capslock to lock on to enemies, shift to dodge/dash, T to go to targeting mode (because for some reason you can't just aim your weapon like you can in every other game). That's two buttons you use your little finger for, and you're going to want to use them both quickly and repeatedly in combat, and T is just awkward to reach altogether.

Plus, the story is just terrible. The original game's story is hardly subtle or groundbreaking, but it doesn't treat its audience like idiots. Madness Returns spells everything out for you over and over again in the most obnoxious way. And the cat's voice is different. It's apparently the same actor, but he doesn't sound right.

Speaking of the cat, that rage tea line "how fine you look when dressed in rage" is one of my favourite voice clips in the game. Unfortunately you mostly hear the "dogs of war" one instead, as I recall.

DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



The cat really is the best in the game. Apparently the VA has voiced a lot of things, most recently being the teddy bear from Among the Sleep (which is just perfect)

Fish Noise posted:

If you're gonna have a death reel and a look-at-enemies reel, you'll also a need a weapons idle reel too.

Good idea, I'll have to do that once I get all of the weapons

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015


To be fair I'm primarily a console gamer and the control scheme for consoles is at least sane, I'd be impressed if it wasn't actually as it's a third person character action game with collectibles and those are pretty hard to get wrong on consoles. I mean look at the Arkham Knight computer port, it was actually straight up unplayable originally, so perhaps the computer port just isn't very good?

The story is another subjective thing. From what I recall it's well played out at least, and an interesting take on the themes it's discussing. I don't recall it ever treating the player like an idiot either, it just uses a particular language and writing style.

Admittedly I also might just be easily impressed by the improved graphical and animations of the sequel. I mean compare how she uses the knife in this game, a sort of wild flailing with little weight, and the vicious twirling that looks actually quite deadly in the second.

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at Sep 14, 2016 around 17:11

Miz Kriss
Mar 17, 2009


From what I remember from Madness Returns, there are some things in that game that kinda invalidate things from the first game, and that's a pet peeve about sequels in general.

DeusExMachinima
Sep 2, 2012

This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!

Put this loser on ignore immediately!


I know we already dissed the disappointing Alice movie upthread, but supposedly for a long time Wes Craven wanted to direct a film adaptation of this game. Shame it didn't happen because that would've been a pure movie to watch.

DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



DeusExMachinima posted:

I know we already dissed the disappointing Alice movie upthread, but supposedly for a long time Wes Craven wanted to direct a film adaptation of this game. Shame it didn't happen because that would've been a pure movie to watch.

There was a Kickstarter to make an animated series, but it was kind of odd

DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



God damned jumping puzzles

Episode 4: The One Where We Fall A Lot

Fish Noise
Jul 25, 2012

IT'S ME, BURROWS!

IT WAS ME ALL ALONG, BURROWS!


I want to say I've seen Hipster Hitler as a Twitter gimmick.

DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



Fish Noise posted:

I want to say I've seen Hipster Hitler as a Twitter gimmick.

And a webcomic as well, apparently

grimlock_master
Nov 1, 2013



I KNEW IT

DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



In this update we are confused by physics.

Episode 5: Extremely Dense Leaves

Thanks again to Grimlock for commenting this week! Next week will be Miz Kriss. Have a good weekend everyone!

Chimera-gui
Mar 20, 2014


While I wasn't a forum member back then, I do remember coming across a really old LP of this game in the Archive (to put its age into perspective, it was using Google Video as a host) so it'll be interesting to see where this LP goes.

DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



Chimera-gui posted:

While I wasn't a forum member back then, I do remember coming across a really old LP of this game in the Archive (to put its age into perspective, it was using Google Video as a host) so it'll be interesting to see where this LP goes.

Right into the ground.

But really, there is another LP of this game on the Archive that was done very well, I'm just doing this one because I like the game so much.

Chimera-gui
Mar 20, 2014


That's completely fair, a lot of the early archived LPs have been largely lost do to hosts ceasing to exist so I have no problem with people who want to do their own LP of a game that already had an archived one.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007

Mary Worth had an illicit affair with Refurb and kidnapped Sophie when she learned the truth. Little did Sophie know, but she was held in Apartment 3G under the watchful eye of The Phantom until Dick Tracy rescued her. Meanwhile, in spite of everything, Working Daze still sucked.


What Alice has is awesomeness.

Haven't you heard of army ants?

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DreamShipWrecked
Jan 11, 2013



Tiggum posted:

What Alice has is awesomeness.

Haven't you heard of army ants?

I missed the pun, I am so ashamed of myself.

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