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LionArcher posted:Because in your scenario you get arrested for assault and if I had to end the situation it will look like I did some sort of weird lock on them and won't get charged with assault. Nope, if some dude attacks me im not thinking "gosh I wonder how this will look to witnesses, better use a joint lock so it doesn't appear as if I am fighting back all that hard", im defending myself hard and not taking any risks. I don't know how big you are that you are so confident with your joint locks against anyone and everyone, but if some 260lbs line backer is coming at me, I don't think any joint locks or BJJ techniques are going to look any less assaulty than punching. Punching and Guilotining/RNC's look pretty horrific equally, id argue maybe even more so as an RNC can make it look like you are trying to do a hollywood neck snap to bystanders some times.
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Feb 22, 2017 03:13
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LionArcher posted:I've heard there's a French instructor who has very solid videos, but judging from this thread it might be a lot of (lol that's fake) If you can find those videos, or his name, I'd like to see it. To paraphrase, game recognize game, so when I look at sparring videos, I can get a sense of the relative skill of the particpants, and what an art emphasizes. Aikido schools (or the aikido community) doesn't seem to want to test its students that way, which is strange to anyone who participates in a combat sport, since of course there's an element of playing the sport how it's going to be scored. In fact, one of the things I enjoy most is when people come to our gym from another school and spar with us. Trying to see their style live is so educational and entertaining.
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Feb 22, 2017 03:29
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willie_dee posted:Nope, if some dude attacks me im not thinking "gosh I wonder how this will look to witnesses, better use a joint lock so it doesn't appear as if I am fighting back all that hard", im defending myself hard and not taking any risks. I don't know how big you are that you are so confident with your joint locks against anyone and everyone, but if some 260lbs line backer is coming at me, I don't think any joint locks or BJJ techniques are going to look any less assaulty than punching. I'm in the low 200's, very broad shoulders and 6ft. I've been in dozens of confrontations when I worked security, and worked with police. For me personally it's been effective for self defense, but a lot of that is Philosophy. I've defused a poo poo ton more altercations by being funny and talking people down. By that same token, a lot of those fights I engaged in were because another security poo poo head who did BJJ or MMA were proving they were tough, and made the situation worse. I'm not saying for somebody starting off that doesn't have my Organization around that it's the best self defense art. I'm just saying that there are still plenty of aikido practitioners that are solid martial artists, and can handle themselves just fine.
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Feb 22, 2017 03:34
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LionArcher posted:I'm in the low 200's, very broad shoulders and 6ft. I've been in dozens of confrontations when I worked security, and worked with police. For me personally it's been effective for self defense, but a lot of that is Philosophy. I've defused a poo poo ton more altercations by being funny and talking people down. By that same token, a lot of those fights I engaged in were because another security poo poo head who did BJJ or MMA were proving they were tough, and made the situation worse. So yea, like all good security personnel you try and deescalate things without violence, thats a given. I am saying when it comes to you vs one guy, who is coming at you, with all the deescalating things having not worked, and hes got 50lbs on you and is swinging hard, are you really thinking in that moment "poo poo, better not hit the guy and get done for assault. Using examples of you doing security work and being in group situations where some other security person is loving up and causing a ruckus, im talking about layperson like me, who don't want to get beaten up by some oval office walking down the street who doesn't like that I'm wearing the new Beats by Dre headphones or what ever the gently caress ever his problem is and wants to hit me, through no fault of my own, what is best for that, and it sure as poo poo isn't Akido, if anything, wherever I have seen Akido taught, it does more harm than good because someone thinks they can fight, but it turns out they have never actually practiced on someone trying to really hit them, just in slow motion by a fellow Akido fantasy dancer. Not trying to be a dick, but I loving hate Akido because I went to my university's Akido club 10 or so years ago and never having ever done a martial art before, they were super scummy, if I hadn't of known about UFC and been a fan, I may have bought in to the bullshit they were trying to teach.
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Feb 22, 2017 03:42
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LionArcher posted:For me personally it's been effective for self defense, but a lot of that is Philosophy. I've defused a poo poo ton more altercations by being funny and talking people down. Are you crediting years of aikido training with teaching you to verbally de-escalate conflicts? You can learn most of it by reading websites for fifteen minutes
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Feb 22, 2017 04:23
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If you're getting into a "poo poo ton" of situations where you have to talk your way out of violence then you are very bad at aikido and self-defense in general.
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Feb 22, 2017 13:39
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From a self defense standpoint I was once told the only people who are gonna be looking to pick fights with you are gonna be drunk rear end holes, high rear end holes, or rear end holes bigger than you. This true? I haven't personally witnessed a fight since leaving high school.
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Feb 22, 2017 15:45
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This past Thursday I almost got into an altercation. I was headed into Walmart to buy a printer and then ahead of me I heard some alarms and a skinny kid came sprinting out of the front door towards me. He was obviously about to pass within arm's reach of me, and I thought about snagging him, but then I realized that I wasn't 100% sure of the situation and I let him go by without clotheslining/tripping him or whatever rather than take the risk of roughing up someone on a misunderstanding. It turned out that he was a thief with a fistfull of ps4 games, and I was a bit disappointed in myself for about 5 minutes. After 5 minutes of being sour about it I realized that my decision had presented two different outcomes. Had I acted, the best outcome would have been a teenager gets hurt and goes to jail. That I hadn't acted means that Walmart loses $200 or so worth of merchandise. And you know what? gently caress Walmart. Thanks Aikido! 
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Feb 22, 2017 15:57
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LionArcher posted:As someone who's done aikido for going on 20 years, worked security, and trained with a couple of special forces dudes, the amount of time is key. One year of aikido isn't going to get you fighting ready like a year of BJJ or MMA, but five years + is when it starts being effective. I was in the old thread and people told me it was bullshit and go train at a real gym and see how it worked out. So I did, and cross trained for a bit because people were telling me it wouldn't work. I handled myself just fine, but in the end I prefer aikido. I may go to a different gym at some point, because I do agree that cross training helps everyone. The gym just wasn't my favorite I suppose. * a black belt judoka or BJJer of 20 years? * a brown belt judoka or BJJer of 10 years? * a blue belt judoka or purple belt BJJ of 5 years? * a green belt judoka or blue belt BJJ of 2 years? If you can handle yourself just fine or prove a point that aikido's effectiveness against a black belt judoka or BJJer of 20 years (equivalent to you), then great - you've put in equivalent mat time and can claim that you handled yourself. If you're still getting tooled by these calibre of opponents, then you didn't really handle yourself just fine. As you mentioned, you have to compare how much mat time will it take to get an aikidoka ready vs a bjjer/judoka ready for self-defense. Comparing your skill by going up against the white belts of other martial arts (or against someone not trained at all) is purely to feed your ego. And that's okay if it's your goal, I'm just calling you out on an unfair comparison as a fellow martial artist. LionArcher posted:I have seen plenty of (bullshit) aikido along the way, but characterizing the whole art as bullshit is a bit much. LionArcher posted:I'm not saying for somebody starting off that doesn't have my Organization around that it's the best self defense art. I'm just saying that there are still plenty of aikido practitioners that are solid martial artists, and can handle themselves just fine.
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Feb 22, 2017 16:07
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I should add that I want Aikido guy to keep participating in the thread. I hate how every 6 months a different Aikido guy posts and gets dogpiled for a few days and disappears.
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Feb 22, 2017 16:15
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I've trained with guys before that said their Aikido training was a good supplement to other martial arts. This also jibes with what I read when I researched it way back in the day in that it was better being learned to augment something else, vs standalone. If nothing else, they at least teach legit wrist locks.
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Feb 22, 2017 16:29
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What is the ballpark power level of a 20 year aikidoka?
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Feb 22, 2017 17:04
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wait wait wait Has Aikido yet made an appearance yet on Moat Fights? That should solve all of these questions.
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Feb 22, 2017 17:06
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Southpaugh posted:What is the ballpark power level of a 20 year aikidoka? *scouter literally explodes off face*
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Feb 22, 2017 17:14
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I personally believe that being 6ft or over and 200+ lbs should not only disqualify you from discussion but also, you should be turned away from any and all martial arts gyms.
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Feb 22, 2017 17:33
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I mean I haven't seen many aikido techniques but the ones I have seen would be effective if you combined it with sparring. So I got no problem with aikido for fun or aikido as a supplement for a martial art that does love training.Xguard86 posted:I personally believe that being 6ft or over and 200+ lbs should not only disqualify you from discussion but also, you should be turned away from any and all martial arts gyms.  it's me I'm the 6ft3 super heavyweight blue belt.
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Feb 22, 2017 18:02
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CommonShore posted:This past Thursday I almost got into an altercation. I was headed into Walmart to buy a printer and then ahead of me I heard some alarms and a skinny kid came sprinting out of the front door towards me. He was obviously about to pass within arm's reach of me, and I thought about snagging him, but then I realized that I wasn't 100% sure of the situation and I let him go by without clotheslining/tripping him or whatever rather than take the risk of roughing up someone on a misunderstanding. It turned out that he was a thief with a fistfull of ps4 games, and I was a bit disappointed in myself for about 5 minutes. There's also outcomes where he's hopped up on goofballs and carrying a knife, or outcomes where you trip him and shatter his eggshell skull in what was legally not a self defense situation. I've been in similar situations and it makes you feel like a pussy for a bit but you absolutely made the right move.
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Feb 22, 2017 18:03
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I too am fully willing to use my skills to ruin a young life by coming to the defense of Sam Walton and his holdings
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Feb 22, 2017 18:06
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literally every single day of my life I tape up my knucks hoping some waifish teen nabs a mood ring off the Spencer's counter so I can valiantly champion big business
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Feb 22, 2017 18:09
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The Martial Arts Thread: Just Steal Running Shoes. Edit: Also: 
Siivola fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Feb 22, 2017 |
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Feb 22, 2017 18:15
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KildarX posted:I mean I haven't seen many aikido techniques but the ones I have seen would be effective if you combined it with sparring. So I got no problem with aikido for fun or aikido as a supplement for a martial art that does love training.  
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Feb 22, 2017 20:33
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Siivola posted:The Martial Arts Thread: Just Steal Running Shoes. Lol. Perfect. As far as other comments, a couple of things. First, somebody said being low 2000's and over 6 shouldn't be training at all, what's up with that? Another person mentioned I was being dense, but I think more of an honest misunderstanding. I'm not surprised people showing up at random BJJ dojo are getting their asses kicked. Most good aikidoi I know that have been training a long time are all set, and aren't worried about sparring. Whether that's because they are police and former military who saw it worked enough at their jobs, or because they do have an inflated sense of how good they are, doesn't really matter to me. What matters to me personally is wether I can walk down the street and feel like I'm safe, and can protect those with me. The truth of the matter is that for pure practicality in man hours to be "good at self defense" learning boxing and training with a pistol and conceal carrying is the most practical. I honestly would and (did because those drunk guys I was dealing with doing security? Some of em were MMA and BJJ guys and it went fine) face whoever it was on the street, if I had to. (Key word there). That includes the guy who has been doing BJJ for 20 years, but that's also because I'm a weird test case. I started training when I was 8, and if it's (real world) vs sparring in a gym, it's a different category. I'm not saying I'd not get hurt, (if it's a good MMA or BJJ guy I'm sure I would) but I'm the one walking out of that encounter. As for the other points saying that it sounds like I was bad at my job for getting in all those encounter working security, here's the thing; a lot of it was an Irish pub where for the first two years there were a couple of bartenders that liked to over serve it's cliental, in a kind of funky area of Oregon where there's a lot of dudes who work out and drive around in their trucks and not much else. I"m honestly surprised that more fights didn't occurre. As far as someone claiming that I was giving aikido credit for something they could learn in fifteen minutes online, lol. Learning to properly de-escalate the situation in theory vs reality is a very different skill set. Doing it a lot is the only way to really get good at it, but I fully credit the aikido background for helping me get a jump start at getting good at it. Again, I'm not saying I think it's the best art, or that I could jump into a MMA fight and be certain I'd win. I'm just saying some of the times you guys have ragged on aikido because (it looks fake) or whatever is maybe not giving it any credit. And again, just because I think if I knew I was getting into a street fight with someone with the same amount of training in another art that I'd be okay doesn't mean a random rear end in a top hat with six weeks of boxing and MMA couldn't tap me on the shoulder on the bar and knock my rear end out because I'm not expecting it. I certainly don't go walking around telling people I do a martial art. And I'll say it again, I do plan on doing more cross training in the future, but running a business and thinking about moving to a real city has taken a lot of my free time lately. If/when I move to LA/Portland, I'll look for a good school that's not aikido to join to do more cross training.
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Feb 22, 2017 20:50
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CommonShore posted:I should add that I want Aikido guy to keep participating in the thread. I hate how every 6 months a different Aikido guy posts and gets dogpiled for a few days and disappears. I appreciate it. I hope in the near future we can change the subject to something else though. Even if I'm not posting on this thread I do lurk. Most of you guys seem pretty cool 
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Feb 22, 2017 20:52
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fwiw owning a handgun is one of the worst things you can do from a self-defense standpoint
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Feb 22, 2017 20:56
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Mechafunkzilla posted:fwiw owning a handgun is one of the worst things you can do from a self-defense standpoint it is incredibly effective against me actually, i am fantastically weak to 'gun'
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Feb 22, 2017 21:00
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Mechafunkzilla posted:fwiw owning a handgun is one of the worst things you can do from a self-defense standpoint I'm talking about training with one extensively with trained experts blah blah blah. Not just buy one and go out twice a month shooting. I agree that's loving stupid.
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Feb 22, 2017 21:02
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CommonShore posted:Lobstermobster - LobsterMobster posted:I'm not sure. I think I've missed the last couple of moat fight events
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Feb 22, 2017 21:05
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LionArcher posted:I'm talking about training with one extensively with trained experts blah blah blah. Not just buy one and go out twice a month shooting. I agree that's loving stupid. How good you are at shooting it isn't the point.
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Feb 22, 2017 21:06
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LionArcher posted:I'm talking about training with one extensively with trained experts blah blah blah. Not just buy one and go out twice a month shooting. I agree that's loving stupid. I think the point Mecha was making was that a gun, and really any weapon[knifes,sticks, etc], is an offensive weapon by nature. In a "self-defense" situation you have to preemptively draw on someone which escalates the situation, because if you don't you run the risk of getting grappled and then have to draw while dealing with someone on top of you while you doing it, because if I am looking to beat your rear end and I see you start reaching around your mid section I am gonna do my best to stop you from doing so at all cost. Further you run the risk of hitting a by stander if you do decide to shoot which can open you up to legalities, on top of which if you draw or discharge a fire arms the chances of you being arrested increase regardless of if you where in the right or not. A gun is also a stupid idea if you're being robbed by a guy with a gun, because unless he's an idiot he's gonna shoot you in the face if you start trying to draw, because he's probably caught you unaware in the first place. edit: personally I feel the only time a gun for self-defense might be the correct option is if there is a home invader, and you're ok with shooting and killing someone for breaking into your house. None of that "I've got a gun" shenanigans,call the cops, ambush the dude, and cap him. Personally wouldn't do it because I don't feel like I could be ok with my self killing another dude, but that's probably the only situation outside of LEO or Military action where a gun might be a good option tactically and strategically. edit 2: What you guys think? is there a good accessory for self defense. The issues I see is that if a weapon is lethal you have to be ok with killing a dude, it has to be easily usable if pressed in the worst situation, you have to be able to have a trainer or something you could practice with on another live human, and it can't be something whose efficacy goes down if you draw it after a fight begins. Defenestrategy fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Feb 22, 2017 |
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Feb 22, 2017 22:38
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Dangerous & delicious animals King of England
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Feb 22, 2017 22:55
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This is the best I could dig up for alive aikido sparring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyCWhBlTFUc&t=40s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdy_5nrkTJY&t=30s This guy clearly knows what he's doing in terms of range and timing, though his techniques only get him so far. That first video mentions a correct application @1:17, but it ends up being a total sacrifice throw. The wrist lock to throw at 2:07 seems legit to me. The trip takedown in the 2nd video works, but you see that in any number of arts. Not to mention the aikidoka has a pretty big size and strength advantage on his partners. Against a pure striker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NinO0vGum38 So yeah, the stuff that works (catching kicks into trips) is pretty recognizable. The gloves protecting the wrists and hands seems to be a problem, as is, you know, resistance. The TKD guy hilariously gets the aikidoka into a headlock and only to get wristlocked after taking it easy. Assessing these guys, they clearly have stuff that works and aren't wilting under some real contact, but I have 0 idea if that's what most people who practice aikido idealize how the art would work in sparring. I think the big selling point of "aliveness" is that you can readily grade yourself at any given point in your progression on what's working for you and what you want to improve. The less sparring you do, the less information you have about how robust your techniques are. In conclusion, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2Jtw-3Q_qE
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Feb 22, 2017 23:07
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Question, thread. Is it fair to say that being in decent running shape is a prerequisite to any kind of physical self defense? Once or twice recently I’d had friends who were curious ask to what extent self defense is a real thing and what someone can actually learn without training martial arts regularly. My stock answer is running, which makes people mad. So I try to expand - that there’s not one simple trick to disable a larger attacker, that martial arts are hard and take serious commitment to use effectively, and that situational awareness and conflict avoidance are way more important life skills than knowing how to fight. This is also not so much what people want to hear. In terms of actual techniques, I feel the only real thing worth showing people is some tips to break wrist control or possibly a collar grip break. But then I have to clarify that, beyond verbal de-escalation, breaking someone’s grips is only even potentially useful at all insofar as they can outrun their attacker, which if you’re speaking to a not very fit non-cardio doer, is to say that it’s not useful at all and they’re totally hosed no matter what. Is it an oversimplification to break it down to fight or flight like that? Self defense classes seem to be getting more popular lately, but I have no idea what they actually teach. Is the whole concept nonsense?
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Feb 22, 2017 23:10
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Saw a guy possibly rip his bicep (small tear) in class today which kind of leads me to the question: Is it cool to go full speed sparring on someone that weighs 40lbs less than you? Because thats what happened. We were playing odd man out and I sparred with said injured person first and went pretty light on him but the next guy really went hard which ended up injuring him. It just seems like some people are more into getting some techniques down and others want to learn that speeding things up a bit and going a bit harder.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:20
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So I've been going to BJJ for about a year now. It is hard to believe. I have been trying to keep up with my rolling but lately I'm running into a couple of consistent problems. The first is that I always seem to set myself up for armbars from virtually any position almost without fail, but that's obviously just something I have to keep working on. The second is the question I'd like to ask the thread: when you're rolling with someone, what's the best way to initiate the roll? Usually when I'm rolling with someone else, we'd both start in combat base and try for a few grips, then the other guys always sort of bull into me and get me in a bad position. Evidently I need to rethink my approach. What are some good methods for starting off a roll?
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Feb 22, 2017 23:28
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Decades posted:Question, thread. Is it fair to say that being in decent running shape is a prerequisite to any kind of physical self defense? Once or twice recently I’d had friends who were curious ask to what extent self defense is a real thing and what someone can actually learn without training martial arts regularly. My stock answer is running, which makes people mad. So I try to expand - that there’s not one simple trick to disable a larger attacker, that martial arts are hard and take serious commitment to use effectively, and that situational awareness and conflict avoidance are way more important life skills than knowing how to fight. This is also not so much what people want to hear. In terms of actual techniques, I feel the only real thing worth showing people is some tips to break wrist control or possibly a collar grip break. But then I have to clarify that, beyond verbal de-escalation, breaking someone’s grips is only even potentially useful at all insofar as they can outrun their attacker, which if you’re speaking to a not very fit non-cardio doer, is to say that it’s not useful at all and they’re totally hosed no matter what. Is it an oversimplification to break it down to fight or flight like that? Self defense classes seem to be getting more popular lately, but I have no idea what they actually teach. Is the whole concept nonsense? I've taught and helped design a few self-defense seminars for teenagers. I go with the fatherdog classic: Situational Awareness > Deescallation > sprint > grappling+striking > grappling > striking And fighting usually looks like stand up, clear clinch, create space, run away, in that order, while making shitloads of noise, which includes the note for teenage girls that often shrieking sounds like laughing because girls squeal like that when they're having fun, at least often enough that it can be ambiguous to a listener. The only strikes I teach are elbows and kicks to the junk.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:29
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Wheat Loaf posted:So I've been going to BJJ for about a year now. It is hard to believe. I have been trying to keep up with my rolling but lately I'm running into a couple of consistent problems. The first is that I always seem to set myself up for armbars from virtually any position almost without fail, but that's obviously just something I have to keep working on. We usually start with one person playing guard, the other trying to pass.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:38
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kimbo305 posted:This is the best I could dig up for alive aikido sparring: None of that looks real to me... the BJJ fighters are massively undersized and don't know how to strike, the TKD guy is too busy throwing stupid kicks from miles away. I want to see that guy against someone with a blue belt in BJJ who can box, then I might be some what convinced. Not one of those guys threw a punch that would hurt if it landed. I genuinely think if you put someone in who could fight, it would look like this classic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I
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Feb 22, 2017 23:41
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Just walk around with a pimp cane.
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Feb 22, 2017 23:43
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Wheat Loaf posted:
Starting on your knees is kind of dumb but its done at most schools usually because of limited space and safety. Wrestling from your knees is not a skill you really have to work on, you could just stand up - a lot of white belts waste a lot of time wrestling around and gripfighting from the knees for no reason. For me i like to just give up a position, either pull guard, give up side control/mount or turtle and try to work out of it and go from there, especially against lower belt levels. And then sometimes if i want to work on something from top position ill just ask if we can alternate starting the roll from top half guard or whatever the position is. Youll get a lot more good reps in this way than wasting time wrestling from your knees
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Feb 22, 2017 23:44
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 17:32 |
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Aye combat base grip fight for a second or one attempts to pass or one has a position in mind to work from
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Feb 22, 2017 23:49
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