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Kurzon posted:The idea is that sorcerers are an international bunch and draw people from all ethnicities. The only bad whitewashing in the movie is the white mugger who tries to steal Strange's wristwatch. A white mugger in Nepal? There was a black one too.
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Oct 31, 2016 16:38
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Kurzon posted:A white mugger in Nepal? Hey, in Batman Begins, Bruce Wayne got tossed in jail for stealing bread in Bhutan.
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Oct 31, 2016 17:46
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Timby posted:Hey, in Batman Begins, Bruce Wayne got tossed in jail for stealing bread in Bhutan. He wanted to go to jail. I'm pretty sure it was on purpose and he may have likely bribed or further offended people in order to do so.
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Oct 31, 2016 18:14
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It wasn't as fun as I expected it to be, but it has the best acting out of any Marvel film. Pretty much everyone was bringing it in all the right ways.
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Oct 31, 2016 21:18
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ShineDog posted:That little whip thing, the villains excellent ethereal weapons, and the shields people used? Very cool. If he just starts flinging fireballs around that's veering very close to scarlet witch who is pants. I don't disagree. But c'mon, he's a wizard, why can't it be fireballs for long distance and then magic shields/whips/weapons for close-quarters? Also, I hope that once he meets Scarlet Witch he gives her some guidance to her powers. And it does have a precedent in the comics, with them working together sometimes. Kurzon posted:The idea is that sorcerers are an international bunch and draw people from all ethnicities. The only bad whitewashing in the movie is the white mugger who tries to steal Strange's wristwatch. A white mugger in Nepal? Are you implying that people from Nepal can be thieves? You racist!  Is Dr. Strange going to be shown in China? It has Nepal as an important location, not to mention astral ghosts and ancient magic. Asian whitewashing/racism in the Marvel Cinematic Universe so far is tricky. Ancient mystical person who knows occult magic? If he's an old man from Nepal, it's racist; but if it's a white woman, it's whitewashing. Same deal with Iron Fist's Netflix casting: dude who learns mystic martial arts in the East; if he's white it's problematic, but if he's asian then it's also racist. And let's not get started on the Mandarin.
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Nov 1, 2016 00:59
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I watched in Hong Kong and it premiered here, so I think China is ok with it.
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Nov 1, 2016 07:50
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Kal-L posted:Is Dr. Strange going to be shown in China? It has Nepal as an important location, not to mention astral ghosts and ancient magic. That's why it's Nepal and not Tibet.
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Nov 1, 2016 19:25
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Test Pattern posted:That's why it's Nepal and not Tibet.
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Nov 1, 2016 20:03
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Kurzon posted:I didn't notice anything in the movie that might offend the Nepalese, but I think that early in pre-production the execs at Marvel Studios insisted the movie take place in Nepal just in case the movie might actually have said something that could irritate the Chinese government. Have said something? China's pretty friendly with nepal. China's relationship with tibet has been a hotbed of controversy. They could have used Tibet if Marvel'd set up some sort of Kingdom of China Ruler Supreme - China's the Best flag or something in any foreign scene, but China wouldn't've let Marvel show the movie in their country otherwise had Tibet been included, most likely.
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Nov 1, 2016 20:46
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Seriously what is the deal with Marvel and third acts? Anyway this movie is pretty good and entertaining, but McAdams' role is even more thankless than I expected. That "lol this humourless Asian man listens to Beyoncé" joke was pretty awful.
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Nov 1, 2016 21:47
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just walked out of this, really liked it. that ending gambit was unexpected. Cumberbatch's accent wasn't bad at all and those effects were stellar. waste of Mikkelsen, sadly.
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Nov 1, 2016 22:50
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Escobarbarian posted:Seriously what is the deal with Marvel and third acts? Anyway this movie is pretty good and entertaining, but McAdams' role is even more thankless than I expected. That "lol this humourless Asian man listens to Beyoncé" joke was pretty awful. The joke was that he was having a listen because he'd not heard of her. It worked pretty well, it's not saying he's some huge fan.
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Nov 2, 2016 03:00
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I liked "Shaballa... is that my mantra or something?" "It's your Wifi password. We're not complete savages  "
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Nov 2, 2016 04:28
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All those jokes were dumb as dirt. "People from other cultures interacting with Western ideas or being unexpectedly advanced" being played for laughs was an old, irrelevant idea decades ago.
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Nov 2, 2016 08:50
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Yeah, if you have wifi you probably know who Beyonce is. This is not a big deal or ever worth talking about further than mentioning that it's a weird joke. The joke I did like was Wong finally laughing at Strange, but only after he becomes his boss. Nice payoff on 'did they work for you?'
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Nov 2, 2016 10:13
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Should I see this the first time on mushrooms or the second time?
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Nov 2, 2016 18:00
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Taear posted:The joke was that he was having a listen because he'd not heard of her. It worked pretty well, it's not saying he's some huge fan. Yes, this is the awful joke I was complaining about
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Nov 2, 2016 18:03
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Throwdown posted:Should I see this the first time on mushrooms or the second time? Aside from a few scenes, it would not be worth it.
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Nov 2, 2016 19:20
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I liked Mordo's exasperated reaction to The Ancient One leaving Strange on Everest, like it's something she's always doing to students.
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Nov 2, 2016 19:27
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The_Doctor posted:I liked Mordo's exasperated reaction to The Ancient One leaving Strange on Everest, like it's something she's always doing to students.
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Nov 2, 2016 20:19
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They weren't criticizing his motivation or discipline, but rather his ego. He was not just world-class, he was world famous. Remember the scenes of him picking only the famous, risky cases?
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Nov 2, 2016 20:26
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well why not posted:They weren't criticizing his motivation or discipline, but rather his ego. He was not just world-class, he was world famous. Remember the scenes of him picking only the famous, risky cases? He even turned down Rhodey edit: oh apparently the director said that wasn't a reference to him Lamont fucked around with this message at 23:08 on Nov 2, 2016 |
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Nov 2, 2016 22:59
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Lamont posted:He even turned down Rhodey I think it's meant to be the Hammer test pilot from the beginning of Iron Man 2. Otherwise the timeline would make no sense since they referred to Strange being around back in Winter Soldier.
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Nov 3, 2016 00:58
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Oasx posted:The big difference between Stark and Strange is that Tony Stark doesn't really change, he decides to do some good instead of selling weapons but he is essentially the same character. Stephen Strange is really arrogant and a bit of an rear end in a top hat and changes during the movie, in that sense he is more like Thor. This is a really common meme to say he hasn't changed and it's completely false. You can't watch Iron Man from 2008 and compare that Tony Stark to the one you see in Civil War. He starts out as a Laissez-Faire dipshit and ends up going to war with the Avengers because he wants government oversight; and all of it is very believable. Every single Stark movie is about him dealing with a certain aspect of his personality negatively impacting him. IM -> Morality IM2 -> Ego Avengers -> Solitude IM3 -> Personal demons/drive/motivation Avengers 2 -> ??? CW -> Responsibility
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Nov 3, 2016 02:09
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Escobarbarian posted:Yes, this is the awful joke I was complaining about I don't see why it's awful. There's plenty of people who haven't heard of celebrities you'd consider super duper famous. Jeremy Corbyn didn't know who ant and dec were.
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Nov 3, 2016 02:13
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Bedshaped posted:This is a really common meme to say he hasn't changed and it's completely false. You can't watch Iron Man from 2008 and compare that Tony Stark to the one you see in Civil War. He starts out as a Laissez-Faire dipshit and ends up going to war with the Avengers because he wants government oversight; and all of it is very believable. He doesn't want government oversight, he wants to do whatever he wants to do while alleviating any guilt he has for taking action. Allowing the veneer of government oversight is the easiest way to do it, given the blowback from their "tragedies". Been a while, but didn't he really only 'go to war' with Steven because of Winter Soldier?
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Nov 3, 2016 02:19
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well why not posted:They weren't criticizing his motivation or discipline, but rather his ego. He was not just world-class, he was world famous. Remember the scenes of him picking only the famous, risky cases?
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Nov 3, 2016 06:58
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Taear posted:I don't see why it's awful. There's plenty of people who haven't heard of celebrities you'd consider super duper famous. It's an awful joke because "lol look this super traditional/stoic thing/person is in some way interacting with this modern pop culture thing/person" is always an awful joke. Hope this helps.
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Nov 3, 2016 10:38
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Taear posted:Jeremy Corbyn didn't know who ant and dec were. i REFUSE to believe this
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Nov 3, 2016 10:44
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Escobarbarian posted:It's an awful joke because "lol look this super traditional/stoic thing/person is in some way interacting with this modern pop culture thing/person" is always an awful joke. Hope this helps. Lovechop posted:i REFUSE to believe this Kurzon posted:It's also ludicrous because Strange doesn't lack motivation or discipline. He's a world-class neurosurgeon, and he found the Ancient One's sanctum. It's the tired trope of the dickhead Asian sensei. Strange absolutely lacks discipline, he got at least partly as far as he got because of his photographic memory. He even remarks as such, and gets told that just memorizing a bunch of poo poo won't get him far in the world of magics. Another big part of his success as a surgeon were his steady as gently caress hands, and we can clearly see how useless he feels without them. I thought it was a strong scene which really was not expanded on enough, imho, when he was amongst the other students and he was the only one to not create the spark-circle portal. That must have hit him pretty hard, as he should be used to excelling from the get-go. In fact, I was disappointed a little with the entire sequence of him learning to become a sorceror. I usually admire how Marvel has honed pacing to a brutally efficient science, but when I got into this movie, I expected it to be a little different, especially in that regard. I personally could have done with longer, more introspective scenes of Strange actually struggling with his doubts about the whole magic thing, his reeling from constant blows against his ego, especially targeted at him specifically by the Ancient One. All of those aspects were there, but relegated to ten or less seconds, glimpses of internal conflicts that Cumberbatch definitely could have acted out well - hell, Sherlock isn't the most character-development-focused show in the universe by any measure, but even there I felt were more scenes of him just standing there and thinking hard about why and he offended someone again and if he shouldn't do something about that. In the end, you end up with a Strange that has surely grown and learned some humility, but most of that journey has been mercilessly cut out and we only see some choice vignettes, like milestones on the way to Guy Who Got Over Himself, Finally. And you get a Strange that still does quips and snide remarks like every other Marvel hero, and I never thought I'd be the "it's getting old" guy, but again, I felt we could see something different for once and it was "just" a very enjoyable, breakneck-paced movie...with a fun main character that can joke and slapstick a bit, but so far just doesn't feel like I had imagined an eventual highly dignified Sorcerer Supreme would be. I know he doesn't get the title during the movie.. I'm probably mostly annoyed by how it got pointed out that he isn't actually as funny as he thinks he is, but the movie clearly still wants me to laugh at his jokes. And I do, see above, I'm easily amused, but in a way, I shouldn't be, you know? And as a final aside, I didn't think Mads was wasted at all? In fact, he might have been the first and maybe only Marvel villain in a good long while with some actual presence, a sensible (if obviously misguided) plan from start to finish (and success!), keeping the hero on his toes all the time, multiple fights throughout the entire thing...hell, even his boss was heavily involved by name and foreshadowing all the time, got a great loving showdown scene as payoff and considering his nature, the less we see of some otherworldy being, the better. While still avoiding the Fantastic Four 2 Galactus mess. Overall, a great movie, but not really the movie I wanted. Basically, for me personally, the focus could have been on just a few different things and I would have adored it instead of just liking it a lot. Sincerely hope I was vague enough in the not spoilered parts, I don't post in CineD much.
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Nov 3, 2016 12:49
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OK, I guess you argued your points well.
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Nov 3, 2016 13:26
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Felt like I was in Cyriak's music video by the halfway point. Also, Strange's coat is a better fighter than him. 
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Nov 3, 2016 13:41
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So is he Supreme or not? I guess that's something they'll save for the inevitable sequel. I bet they can't wait to show a whole stack of Inter dimensional counterpart.
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Nov 3, 2016 14:46
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With the Ancient One dead he kinda is by default. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Somebody fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Nov 3, 2016 |
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Nov 3, 2016 15:35
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Kinda feel bad for all those other people who he joined after and who did better than him in training.
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Nov 3, 2016 16:05
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Well yeah, he's been there less time than Mordo, Wong, one handed dude and a bunch of others.
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Nov 3, 2016 17:13
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well why not posted:So is he Supreme or not? I guess that's something they'll save for the inevitable sequel. I bet they can't wait to show a whole stack of Inter dimensional counterpart.
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Nov 3, 2016 17:19
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Escobarbarian posted:Kinda feel bad for all those other people who he joined after and who did better than him in training. By the end of the movie i think he had pretty much surpassed everyone else there.
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Nov 3, 2016 17:26
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poptart_fairy posted:Also, Strange's coat is a better fighter than him. I absolutely loved the scene where Strange does his badass "Okay it's time to get serious" gesture and the cape starts rubbing at the blood on his cheeks like an overprotective mother, and he's irritably trying to stop it because it's messing with his moment
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Nov 3, 2016 22:14
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Just saw the movie and really loved it. The story was fairly hum drum, but I loved the visuals. I thought even the credits were really interesting visually, as were both the mirror and dark dimensions. I'm a lot more hopeful of the story in a sequel than in this one though, at the very least because this movie did something I've been waiting for a superhero flick to do since they came in to vogue - namely to take their time with an acquaintance turned antagonist. I like that the movie spent time building up Mordo as one of Strange's allies and a good person before turning him antagonistic (rather than outright villainous) in the last minutes for pretty organic reasons. I don't think any movie has really done so up till now. Loki was pretty obviously antagonistic, if not outright villainous from the start in Thor and Bucky was more of a reluctant villain against his wishes, which are the closest I can think of, so I wouldn't count either of them. I look forward to seeing Mordo in a sequel though, since his relationship with Strange should make for good showdowns.Kurzon posted:Another annoying trope is that the Most Important Truth of All is some commonsense stuff that our mothers taught us when we were seven years old, such as humility or love conquering all or some other bullshit. That didn't happen at all. Strange was already set to be against Dormammu by his meeting with Kaecilius, since he didn't like what working with Dormammu made Kaecilius physically or socially. He was also already on his way to being a better person, since he'd asked the doctor he'd previously disrespected to perform surgery in his place, apologised to Rachel and so on. All the talk with the Ancient One and her words regarding death giving meaning to life were was something that helped him set his stance on Dormammu in stone. They also weren't the words that won the day, since that was Kaecilius' talk about time giving him the idea to gently caress with Dormammu using time itself. Torquemada posted:Virtually every villain in the MCU seems to come about the same way, "I was a good guy, but X happened and now I'm bad": this movie does it twice. I'd both argue that only a few villains do actually do that, not virtually all of them as well as that Doctor Strange didn't really do it it all. There's no villain in any of the Iron-Man films that started out a good guy and then turned bad. At best they started out neutral and most of them became bad guys because they were pursuing power, though not all. The Red Skull in the first Cap film definitely didn't start out good, nor Armin Zola. Bucky did, but X in his case is brain washing so I don't think that really counts. Tony and Zemo did though, if you want to count Tony for Civil War. Most of Thor's villains didn't either, like the Destroyer or the Dark Elves - though Loki did. Even then, he was kind of neutral from the start really. The bad guy in Ant-Man was never good for that matter. Nor were those in the Avengers films, or the ones in Guardians. Ronan, Thanos, the Chitauri and Ultron were all bad from the start - hell, you could argue they're a minus on that scale, since Wanda started bad and became good because of X. The only villains that really started bad and became good are Loki, Bucky, Tony and Zemo - and I'd say Zemo is the only one of them that really counts, since Bucky was brainwashed and became good once it was broken, Loki was never particularly good and Tony wasn't so much a villain as an antagonist and never really became bad as such. As to Doctor Strange, again I'd say Kaecilius starts out neutral rather than good, and we never see even the neutral part so I find it hard to count him as even being that. Mordo on the other hand definitely is good, but I don't think he ever becomes bad. He certainly never does in the film proper, but even in the after credits scene I'd say he's more antagonistic than bad. I can see how that technical quibble wouldn't count for some people though, so maybe I should count it once. Still, I don't think you can really say it's something virtually every movie or villain does given the track record. On the other hand I think I've seen you phrase it as virtually every villain starts out as someone the hero knows who goes against them because X (or something along those lines), and I'd say that's definitely more true. It's not something I'd really count as a problem though, because that's one thing that makes a good villain. There's other ways to do it, and not all Marvel Movie villains are that way (Whiplash, Mandarin, Red Skull, Zemo, Malechi etc), but there's certainly more of that. Jedit posted:Above several hundred quotes saying "Did you even watch the loving movie?" It's made explicit that Strange being unable to form a portal is nothing to do with his hands. And by "explicit" I mean there's a scene where Strange literally says "I can't do magic because my hands are hosed up" and then Master Hamir reveals he can perform the spells despite not having a left hand. Even discounting that in the Ancient One's final scene Strange flat out asks "so I could heal my hands?" and she says that he can. The dialogue isn't even ambiguous, so I've no idea how he got the idea that Strange could never do so. On top of that, the final scene in the movie proper is Strange putting on his cracked watch, and then pausing to look at the scars on his hand because they've started to heal. Not only that, but the stinger of Mordo taking the magic that one guy uses to heal his cracked spine sets it up so that Mordo is out to get Strange in a sequel movie as part of his agenda, since he doesn't think people should be using magic for things like that and upending the natural order. That motivation is a another reason for the two to be set against each other (though I presume the relationship will be healed after a second or third movie), with Mordo able to do something to partially cripple Strange by removing his healing. Not having Strange's hands heal upends that possible antagonism, which is silly. His hands haven't healed yet by the end of the film, and Mordo will almost certainly remove the healing at some point in a sequel to effect Strange's ability to use magic, but they'll definitely be fully healed at some point. Now, what I don't like is that Strange can use magic regardless of that nerve damage, as proved by Hamir and even himself during the movie - so Mordo removing it doesn't seem much of a debilitation, but I'm sure the sequel will do something with the idea and make Strange more of an amateur who struggles with bigger spells again if it happens. Kurzon posted:Which is a tough idea to sell to a man of science who is at the top of his field. Given what happens to Pangbong in the stinger scene, magic can't actually heal anything, but rather Strange would have to cast a spell on himself that would make his hands normal only for long as he keeps recharging the spell, like Cinderella's carriage or something. It seems more like a thing that he just does unconsciously and not something that he needs to constantly cast or keep track of. It happens automatically if you elevate your mind by the looks of things, though it can be removed by force even if you are spiritually and mentally enlightened. Kurzon posted:The film ought to explain WHY breaking these rules is so terrible. Not only does the film explain that it's bad because it gives Dormammu an "in" in to our world if done wrong or done on too grand a scale or whatever, it also shows that breaking the rules isn't always a bad thing and sets it up that Mordo, a stickler who can't grasp that because of his upbringing is in the wrong to think the rules should never be broken under any circumstance. Kurzon posted:It's also ludicrous because Strange doesn't lack motivation or discipline. He's a world-class neurosurgeon, and he found the Ancient One's sanctum. It's the tired trope of the dickhead Asian sensei. It probably is at least partially because she's a bit of a dick, but my reading of it was that it was really more a case that she wanted to force Strange's hand on the matter, to force him to get over his self doubt regarding his nerve damage after showing him Hamir. By putting him in a sink or swim situation he had to get himself out of it and couldn't just let doubts plague him as they had been up to that point, since he believed he was incapable of doing it because of his hands. She could have just shown him Hamir, but the second step forced him to accept and act on that knowledge. Oasx posted:By the end of the movie i think he had pretty much surpassed everyone else there. I think the movie wanted to put across the idea that he's the best candidate because he's a lot more flexible and creative than any of the others, that he's both naturally talented at it (photographic memory), that he has some cross compatible skills because of his old job and that more than anything he's a lot more flexible and creative than the other candidates, like Mordo and Wong. Mordo is simply too rule bound and by the book, while Wong doesn't seem to have any apparent deficiencies, but also doesn't show the kind of strength magically or creativity befitting the role. He's definitely not a Sorcerer Supreme yet, since he doesn't have full control of the Eye or know all the stuff he should know according to the films end, and he visibly struggled in all his fights compared to the Ancient One, who was a lot more composed and demonstrated a greater mastery of magics - but the meeting with Dormammu show him as someone who has the flexibility and creativity to be that in future if he puts in the work as well as having the sheer audacity befitting the role, since his plan was to make a deal with Dormammu using his own life as collateral and he showed a willingness to sacrifice himself for eternity if necessary. tsob fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Nov 3, 2016 |
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Nov 3, 2016 23:20
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