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Years ago, I started a thread about Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Unfortunately, events in the real world prevented me from getting past the first few episodes. 'I'm back' to finish this, because I think this series is the best Terminator media since T2. Not just when compared to T3 and Genisys, but because of how well put together it is. Also, Genisys rather shameless copied many things from this TV series, which I will be happy to explain in my next post before diving back into the series proper. Here's the previous OP and the previous thread. quote:So, to start things off, I'm just going to mention that I can't stick with my initial plan to do this thread as a first time viewer giving their opinion on each episode as it unfolds. Why? Because after the first episode, I was hooked. I'm not going to enforce a spoiler-policy on this thread, unless we get someone coming in and saying they are a first-time viewer. So, go nuts - talk about the things you liked and the things you disliked. Feel free to discuss other parts of the franchise too, particularly with how they relate to the tv series. Ultimately, I feel that this show is an underappreciated gem, flaws and all, and the more people who learn about it and appreciate it, the better!
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Nov 11, 2016 00:31
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What's a good/cheap way to watch this? I heard it used to be on netflix but it's not anymore and I've heard of some amazing episodes.
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Nov 11, 2016 00:50
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There are some stellar and some terrible episodes, but it ends in an incredibly strong way. Garret Dillahunt and Brian Austin Green deliver some surprisingly great performances. Also, never forget:  I hope that doesn't count as a spoiler.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:24
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I didn't dislike Genisys. Note, I don't think it was very good, but I still think it was a better film than T3 and Salvation. Part of this is because Genisys was obviously something like a Best Hits mix of the Terminator franchise, all done up with new CGI, which appealed to the uncritical Terminato fan in me. The other part of it is due to how much it borrowed from TSCC. A brief summary of either plot might say, "At the behest of a friendly Terminator, the Connors jump into the future in order to have a better chance at stopping Judgement Day. Their objective is to stop the development of the unassuming software that would go on to become Skynet." Perhaps I am painting with too broad a brush, some might say, so, let's drill down a bit further into some of the characters, plot developments and ideas in the film.
The big difference is that whereas TSCC had two seasons to explore and develop these ideas, Genisys only had a few hours. Whereas TSCC was not afraid to take its time with these ideas, Genisys had to slam through them. Ultimately, Genisys could be said to be TSCC without the nuance and innovation. It certainly lacked the casting and character development that made TSCC excel. One of the biggest flaws of Genisys is its casting - Emilia Clarke, while looking perfect for the role, was an incredibly weak Sarah. Similarly, Jai Courtney was quite possibly the worst choice possible for Kyle Reese. Jason Clarke was a fine Terminator but he had no charisma as John Connor. As much as I enjoy Arnold as the Terminator, though, I am quite glad that Genisys will not get a sequel, nor the planned TV spinoff. While better than T3 and Salvation, that isn't necessarily a mark of high quality and Genisys attempt to reboot the franchise could be summed up as blood from a stone. Terminator is a good story but when your idea is to put John Connor in an antagonist role, undercuttting what might be the core concept of Terminator, you might want to admit that there's nothing more that can be done for it and it should just be left alone.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:24
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Jack Gladney posted:There are some stellar and some terrible episodes, but it ends in an incredibly strong way. Garret Dillahunt and Brian Austin Green deliver some surprisingly great performances. It's why I chose the icon.  Mr.Pibbleton posted:What's a good/cheap way to watch this? I heard it used to be on netflix but it's not anymore and I've heard of some amazing episodes. I'm not sure if it is actually available to stream through those services. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
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Nov 11, 2016 01:25
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Mr.Pibbleton posted:What's a good/cheap way to watch this? I heard it used to be on netflix but it's not anymore and I've heard of some amazing episodes. It's for sale as digital/streaming on Amazon, but I don't think the series is included free in any of the streaming services like prime, netflix or Hulu at the moment.
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Nov 11, 2016 03:30
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Oh hey, this thread is back! And I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that Genisys was  inspired by TSCC, like it was from the rest of the franchise as well.I seem to remember they were talking about somehow doing a TV series spinning out of Genisys before it shat the bed at the box office. I have a feeling that would be cannibalising from TSCC pretty heavily.
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Nov 11, 2016 19:10
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Yvonmukluk posted:Oh hey, this thread is back! I remember seeing a guy from Dr Who on a lot of the posters, was he in the movie for more than five minutes? Coolness Averted posted:It's for sale as digital/streaming on Amazon, but I don't think the series is included free in any of the streaming services like prime, netflix or Hulu at the moment. Aw dang. 
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Nov 11, 2016 19:55
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Show had some great episodes, I loved the season 1 finale best. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIIFQ42s_tM
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Nov 12, 2016 04:55
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Mr.Pibbleton posted:I remember seeing a guy from Dr Who on a lot of the posters, was he in the movie for more than five minutes? He was really only it for like 5 minutes, yeah, but he was presumably going to show up more in all those sequels that aren't happening now. Edit: I guess you could see if you could get it cheap on DVD/Blu-Ray if you don't mind physical media. Yvonmukluk fucked around with this message at 12:16 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 12:11
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Jack Gladney posted:There are some stellar and some terrible episodes, but it ends in an incredibly strong way. Garret Dillahunt and Brian Austin Green deliver some surprisingly great performances. My review of the series: - The Pilot: Constipated Terminator makes a lovely remake of T1/T2. - Shortly after: They ice the gently caress out of that actor and replace him with an awesome actor - Series gets lame - Derek Reese shows up, series gets awesome - Things remain awesome until season 2's sweep week - We get stuck 3 episodes with Sarah being dull as poo poo and hallucinating - Series goes back to being awesome - Series has one of the most badass main character deaths - Series ends awesome Overall: It was a great show when it didn't try to be terminator, and it's worst when it tried to be the movies. But when it ignored the action aspect and focused on the sci-fi aspect, it was really exceptional and had a lot more to give. Also I will note that I thought Lena Heady was the weakest part of the show but in hindsight I realize without even a slight doubt that her version of Sarah Connor was the worst only because of the writers, she's utterly kicked rear end in everything she's been in since. Still, Derek Reese was the biggest surprise as the best part of the show, esp. since on paper it sounds like a terrible idea. ED: Oh yeah, one of the best moments was when John Connor flipped everyone thinking he was a naive rear end in a top hat on it's head and was playing his future girlfriend to find out more the whole time before calling her on that poo poo. It was nice to see that after such a frustrating build-up.
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Nov 12, 2016 12:41
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Yvonmukluk posted:And I'm willing to go out on a limb and say that Genisys was It might sound like a nitpick, but the minute they miscast Kyle Reese so badly I went "WHAT THE gently caress!?" repeatedly it summed up the tone of the whole movie. Anton Yelchin was a good choice in another lovely Terminator movie though (RIP). I don't even have a problem with Jai Courtney (SP?) like some people.. he wasn't really bad in the movie, he was just really very wrong for the part. It'd be like casting Ed Norton as John Rambo; Norton's fine and I'm sure would put in an effort, but just -come the gently caress on-, really. Kyle was supposed to be a dirty scrapper type, not a hulking clean-cut marine that's as big as the Terminator. It ruins the whole aesthetic. Milky Moor posted:Ultimately, I feel that this show is an underappreciated gem, flaws and all, and the more people who learn about it and appreciate it, the better! It absolutely is. I might have mentioned a few lame parts in my earlier post, and there were some bad episodes, but overall the good episodes were REALLY, REALLY GOOD. I was in an odd spot on this one: Fox really did give it a bunch of chances (and sadly renewed Dollhouse instead of TSCC, something even Whedon actually vocally said was a bad idea, hilariously), and it was one of my favorite shows, but it just never found it's footing because of a few bad eps. and a lackluster pilot. Once the show got into gear it was really good. That said anyone reading this thread and not watching Westworld needs to get on that poo poo. A LOT of the better parts of the sci-fi from TSCC are present in that show, and I can see very, very few TSCC fans who'd dislike Westworld. Blazing Ownager fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Nov 12, 2016 |
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Nov 12, 2016 12:46
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Blazing Ownager posted:Also I will note that I thought Lena Heady was the weakest part of the show but in hindsight I realize without even a slight doubt that her version of Sarah Connor was the worst only because of the writers, she's utterly kicked rear end in everything she's been in since. Still, Derek Reese was the biggest surprise as the best part of the show, esp. since on paper it sounds like a terrible idea. Derek Reese is definitely one of the most well-executed parts of the show. Interesting that you think Lena Heady was the weakest part! In some ways, I prefer her take on Sarah Connor to Hamilton's take. I think Dekker was really good at giving John Connor a lot of nuance and capturing the conflict between future leader and angsty teen. Those three episodes you mention are the low point of the series with one of them being an actual 'It was all a dream!' thing. The thing that most frustrated me about TSCC was that Season 1 went by at an insanely quick pace. They'd have episodes that they could have easily made two-parters out of and would have been better for it. Then they had Season 2 where things just dragged. Particularly the Riley subplot. quote:ED: Oh yeah, one of the best moments was when John Connor flipped everyone thinking he was a naive rear end in a top hat on it's head and was playing his future girlfriend to find out more the whole time before calling her on that poo poo. It was nice to see that after such a frustrating build-up. The bit where he meets with Derek's girlfriend from the alternate timeline, right? "If you pretend not to know who I am, I'll shoot you in the head." Blazing Ownager posted:It might sound like a nitpick, but the minute they miscast Kyle Reese so badly I went "WHAT THE gently caress!?" repeatedly it summed up the tone of the whole movie. Bingo. I don't think the casting for Genisys was bad per se, in the sense that they acted badly, but they were the wrong people for the parts. quote:That said anyone reading this thread and not watching Westworld needs to get on that poo poo. A LOT of the better parts of the sci-fi from TSCC are present in that show, and I can see very, very few TSCC fans who'd dislike Westworld. Westworld is definitely a show I want to check out ASAP.
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Nov 12, 2016 13:49
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Blazing Ownager posted:My review of the series: I thought Heady was the best Sarah. Far better than Hamilton, and the less said about Clarke, the better. Blazing Ownager posted:It'd be like casting Ed Norton as John Rambo; Norton's fine and I'm sure would put in an effort, but just -come the gently caress on-, really. If you read the original novel, Rambo was definitely more like Norton than Stallone. Just a small wiry guy, and not some hulking brute.
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Nov 12, 2016 14:17
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Blazing Ownager posted:It might sound like a nitpick, but the minute they miscast Kyle Reese so badly I went "WHAT THE gently caress!?" repeatedly it summed up the tone of the whole movie. To be fair, James Cameron was initially looking at casting Schwarzenegger as Kyle Reese, so there is some precedent (all things considered though, they should have stayed consistent, especially if he's meant the be the same guy Micheal Biehn played back in '84, especially considering the classic T-800 is right there). Courtney seems like he'd be better cast as a generic Terminator for Summer Glau to beat up.
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Nov 12, 2016 17:39
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Loved this show. It's one of those extremely underrated sci-fi shows that deserved far more seasons then it got.
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Nov 12, 2016 18:53
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Blazing Ownager posted:That said anyone reading this thread and not watching Westworld needs to get on that poo poo. A LOT of the better parts of the sci-fi from TSCC are present in that show, and I can see very, very few TSCC fans who'd dislike Westworld. I watched the first episode of Westworld and it just seemed incredibly dumb. Like, everything fromt he premise up is just stupid and makes no sense. My biggest issue: They've got those magic guns that only kill robots, right? But then that guy murders a bunch of robots with a knife. Is the knife magic too? And clearly there are people there to rape and torture and murder gruesomely. How are they not accidentally hurting or killing other players all the time? Oh, and you've got this wild west simulation, but you can't have a bar brawl where you smash chairs on people or throw them through windows because real humans could get hurt by that. What's even the point?
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Nov 13, 2016 03:14
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I had sort of wished the season 2 bit of Cameron going bad would have continued for a few more episodes in place of the go nowhere 3-dots storyline. It would have been sort of a great turn of being able to break Derek, John and Sarah apart and now have to go on the run from a Terminator who knows all their secrets, all their tricks, etc. They can't even contact one another because they don't know if Cameron is pretending to be one of them over a phone or not, they have to be careful about trying to track each other down because they don't know if Cameron is tailing any of them. We maybe work out something where they've got to figure out ways to leave messages via dead-drops, stegonagraphy, etc. that could require more human understanding to figure out who is who and what they're really saying.
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Nov 13, 2016 05:37
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The series was worth it if just for the Mexican ambush episode and tommygun toting Terminator
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Nov 13, 2016 07:51
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WhyteRyce posted:The series was worth it if just for the Mexican ambush episode and tommygun toting Terminator Both great moments. JediTalentAgent posted:I had sort of wished the season 2 bit of Cameron going bad would have continued for a few more episodes in place of the go nowhere 3-dots storyline. It would have been sort of a great turn of being able to break Derek, John and Sarah apart and now have to go on the run from a Terminator who knows all their secrets, all their tricks, etc. They can't even contact one another because they don't know if Cameron is pretending to be one of them over a phone or not, they have to be careful about trying to track each other down because they don't know if Cameron is tailing any of them. We maybe work out something where they've got to figure out ways to leave messages via dead-drops, stegonagraphy, etc. that could require more human understanding to figure out who is who and what they're really saying. In a way, this post kind of encapsulates a lot of my thoughts on TSCC. What we got was really good. But a lot of what we got could've done so much more with just a little bit more thought. I think Samson and Delilah is a great episode but it would have been fantastic in one or two parts for all the reasons you mention. My plan is to recap the next episode tomorrow and continue that way, although I'm likely to diverge into tangents on certain topics on episodes that bring them to light. For example, John and Future John, Cameron and John's relationship, Cameron's agenda, and touching on how TSCC just builds on many themes and elements of the Terminator franchise so well, whereas T3 and Salvation were just aping what came before.
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Nov 13, 2016 08:09
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The series was also worth it for Derek utterly wrecking the T-888 with a couple Barrett rounds to the noggin. Also amusing is their avoidance of using poo poo they'd have to pay for, like the word Terminator, and renaming all the models so they'd be distinctly different.
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Nov 13, 2016 08:18
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Party Plane Jones posted:The series was also worth it for Derek utterly wrecking the T-888 with a couple Barrett rounds to the noggin. I'm still not sure how the Terminator franchise is divided. I've heard that there are two companies who own various pieces of it? If someone knows how this all worked out, please fill us in! So, they can use the word Terminator to link the series to the franchise, but characters cannot say the word Terminator to refer to the character. It happens once, in the final episode, and is obscured by heavy SFX. They can use the characters John Connor, Sarah Connor, Kyle Reese, SkyNet, and characters that are obviously Terminators (T-888s, T-1001) but cannot use the T-800 or the T-1000 specifically? Similarly, I don't think they ever directly refer to or state anything that happened in T1 or T2. Why would they have to pay for, say, calling something a T-800, but not pay to use SkyNet or John Connor?
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Nov 13, 2016 08:37
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Milky Moor posted:Both great moments. Its pretty well understood that a lot of the show's issues resulted from the writer's strike, right? I mean I recall that being a bitch a couple of shows from the era, but particularly this one where you could practically see where they have pointless crap for a few episodes in an otherwise tight series.
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Nov 13, 2016 09:07
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Caros posted:Its pretty well understood that a lot of the show's issues resulted from the writer's strike, right? Definitely. TSCC seems like the show of the time period that might have been most obviously affected.
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Nov 13, 2016 09:19
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I'll Nth the stuff everyone is saying about Derek Reese. When I first heard they were doing it I was like "well that's the stupidest jump the shark thing I've ever heard! You can't just introduce John Connor's brother!" But man if it didn't work perfectly. The biggest problem I had with Genisys was no Derek Reese. They blew that big time IMO. Brian Austin Green's Derek was just an awesome cool guy. Let's also get a little love in here for Shirley Manson's creepy evil(?) terminator. She was really great in her role as well. It's a shame the show hasn't continued in some other media because I'd love to see what the next season would have been.
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Nov 13, 2016 15:41
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Astroman posted:I'll Nth the stuff everyone is saying about Derek Reese. When I first heard they were doing it I was like "well that's the stupidest jump the shark thing I've ever heard! You can't just introduce John Connor's brother!" But man if it didn't work perfectly. The biggest problem I had with Genisys was no Derek Reese. They blew that big time IMO. Brian Austin Green's Derek was just an awesome cool guy. TSCC has a ton of things that feel like they would be shark moments but somehow manages to pull them off. Derek Reese, Cameron, alternate-alternate timelines, a faction of rogue Terminators, a Terminator playing with Lego, lots of religious themes. Hell, a lot of it feels like stuff recycled from T3 but done better (a female Terminator, Skynet already existing in the present, Sarah's cancer). I think it is, partially, that the series is careful to treat these developments respectfully and not openly disregard any pre-existing elements of the narrative (for example, it is very easy to understand why Kyle never mentioned Derek). And a lot of the stuff - like a rogue T-1000 - is openly based on either direct quotes from previous films (or James Cameron) or considered deliberation about the themes and message of the first two films and continuing the trends therein.
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Nov 13, 2016 16:09
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Astroman posted:Let's also get a little love in here for Shirley Manson's creepy evil(?) terminator. She was really great in her role as well. Best part of the show, IMO.
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Nov 13, 2016 16:16
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This series legit has my favorite TV character death of all time. Major spoiler: When Derek bites it, it's not lingered on, it's not a big production, it just happens. The Terminator doesn't even break his stride while trying to get to John and Sarah. It was the perfect way of displaying that all it takes is ONE human error, which the machines don't make. It's so abrupt you're not even sure you just saw it, and you ask yourself "Did they really just do that?"
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Nov 13, 2016 21:46
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TSCC also does terminator on terminator fights really well. It's close to, if not better than Arnie and Robert Patrick throwing each other through walls.
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Nov 14, 2016 09:45
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sticklefifer posted:This series legit has my favorite TV character death of all time. Without adding more to the spoiler tag, I will say, it was absolutely perfect and I agree with all those points. You almost never see it like that, ever.
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Nov 14, 2016 10:23
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Party Plane Jones posted:The series was also worth it for Derek utterly wrecking the T-888 with a couple Barrett rounds to the noggin With Raufoss rounds no less, extremely my poo poo  Tiggum posted:Best part of the show, IMO. Astroman posted:Let's also get a little love in here for Shirley Manson's creepy evil(?) terminator. She was really great in her role as well. 100% agree on both posts
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Nov 15, 2016 09:24
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sticklefifer posted:This series legit has my favorite TV character death of all time. I still use this as an example of how to do a character death right. When i first watched it, I expected it to be either a) a dream sequence, or b) them to go back in time and fix it. Once I processed it, it REALLY stuck with me. Just so casual, one minute he's there and the next he's gone. No dramatic Game of Thrones dramatic music, just a light switch turning off. That unnerved me more than pretty much anything else I'd seen. Brutal.
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Nov 16, 2016 02:51
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Episode 5: Queen's Gambit As we go through Season 1, we're going to run straight in my consistent complaint with the first half of the series - there is way too much happening in many of these episodes. This is very evident in this episode, something which feels like it could have had two or three episodes made from the premise and worked all the better for it. We open with Sarah reflecting on the time she spent with John and some guerilla fighters in the jungle. There, John learned how to play chess as a way to understand war. While thinking about this, Sarah is running through a set of pull-ups on the swingset outside the Connor residence. Inside, we see Sarah popping a few pills. Pills which Google tells me are used for cancer treatment. Anyway, Sarah gets a call from Andy Goode - a former Cyberdyne intern and someone who was building a computer called the Turk. Unknowingly to Andy, Sarah had burnt his house down to destroy the work that would become Skynet. Unfortunately for Sarah, Andy has rebuilt his creation and is now entered it into a chess tournament. And, unfortunately for Charley, Cromartie - in the guise of FBI Agent Kester - has shown up at his door. Meanwhile, John Connor is doing math homework. "You're really good at math," he tells Cameron. "Yes," she replies. "Want to do mine?" "Yes." I could talk at length about the relationship between those two, but I'll save it for a later episode. One thing I'll point to here, something which is sort of brought up later in this episode, is Summer Glau's delivery of Cameron's second yes. It's not a blunt affirmative, there's an edge of desire to it, like Cameron actually wants to do math on a level that is beyond just being useful and fulfilling an order. There are a lot of little bits of genuine warmth in the strange relationship they have, which is contrasted by what is probably the climax of it - a scene where the fact of it all is that Cameron is cold. Sarah comes in. She tells John that Andy has rebuilt the Turk. "It's a song," John says, of coding, "It has to come out." "Yeah, well, this is a song might just blow up the world." Cameron all but perks up like a guard dog and says "You should have killed him when you had the chance." "I'm surprised it's taken you so long to bring that up," Sarah retorts. "I'm busy doing John's homework." Sarah gives John this look that is one part incredulous and one part knowing mother. 'John Connor, you can not get the killer robot to do your homework for you!' They talk. John and Cameron will go to school while Sarah goes to meet Andy as absenteeism invites attention. John wants money to buy lunch but Sarah has packed it. For all the practical side of things, Sarah Connor is an excellent mother. But the emotional side, not so much. Sarah goes to meet Andy. She wanders a lobby filled with chess playing computers and a skeletal robot with a plastic face. Knowing what Sarah knows, it is clearly unnerving. But to Andy, it's awesome. He fills Sarah on the capabilities of the Turk 2 compared to the Turk 1 and that his partner, a man named Dimitri Shipkov, was the one who taught it to play chess. Things go from bad to worse for Sarah when it's revealed that this isn't just a chess tournament, but the winner will get a military contract. Despite her efforts, it seems like the future will correct itself to ensure J-Day. Back to Cromartie and Charley. Charley is aggravated about the FBI 'changing their story'. Cromartie, in that amazing way, blandly recites facts - presumably to see if Charley will provide enough rope to hang himself with. The scene is wonderful and the dialog is great so I'm just going to reproduce it. Cromartie: Sarah Connor survived the explosion in the bank vault. So did her son. Charley: Yeah, that was eight years ago. You guys just figured that out? (A mobile phone rings. Cromartie turns on it, viper-quick, and stares at it. His head tilts, as if considering it, before turning back to Charley). Cromartie: Yes. Charley: Yes? Yes, what? Cromartie: Yes. We just figured that out. Michelle Dixon: Babe, who was that at the door? Cromartie: Good morning, ma'am. Charley:He's from the FBI. Cromartie: I'm asking a few questions. Michelle Dixon: Charley, is something wrong? Charley: No. Cromartie: I'm looking for the Connors. Michelle Dixon: (incredulous) Sarah Connor? Your ex? Cromartie: I'm looking for them here. Michelle Dixon: Here? Cromartie: (matter-of-fact) Mr. Dixon wanted to marry Sarah Connor before you. She's alive. Maybe he's hiding her here. Charley: What? I already told you, no. No, okay? Look, all due respect, Agent Kester, the woman that I knew, Sarah Reese, she blew herself up in a bank eight years ago. I never knew, and I do not know Sarah Connor. Cromartie:: If you see or hear anything, call me. Any time, I never sleep. There's this innocence to Cromartie that makes him a fascinating villain. I don't think he ever displays sadism or anything we might call evil. He is completely efficient and without cunning guile. Time and time again, he simply says what he is doing ("I'm asking a few questions") and time and time again, Dillahunt just nails this robotic naivety. The words have no meaning to him whatsover, but he's just saying them because it is the most optimal thing to say. He's a regular Chinese Room. And yet that innocence only serves to make him more threatening, because you know that if it had been Sarah coming down the stairs and not Michelle, then Cromartie would have killed them both in an instant - because it is the most optimal course of action. We cut to John and Cameron at school as they pass by the memorial for Jordan, a student who killed herself. Cameron understands why people cry (they are sad) but does not understand why people are leaving notes for Jordan. "How will she get the notes?" Cameron asks. John explains that people write notes as a form of catharsis that goes beyond crying. Next to him, a blonde student - Cheri - comments that she liked the note explanation and goes to leave one. The next scene, John is in shop class. Using his knowledge of Spanish (and his burgeoning leadership skills) he defuses a fight between some other classmates. On a rewatch, this scene - and the one immediately previous - are big red flags that the show went through troubles. Cheri is set up as this mysterious figure with no one knowing much about her, but she is dropped without a word and Riley (another mysterious blonde) is introduced. Morris - one of the kids involved in the fight that John breaks up - is also dropped without any indication. Also-also, the girl who killed herself was apparently part of some kind of sub-plot with the guidance counselor of the school. My biggest personal criticism of TSCC is that the daily life stuff is just unceremoniously dropped. The day continues. Sarah watches Goode's Turk battle it out with a Japanese computer, warily noting the presence of Air Force officers in the audience. And then she spies a figure slipping in through a side entrance, a figure who looks remarkably similar to Kyle Reese - this is, of course, Derek Reese. Outside, Cameron and John browse the robotics exhibition. In what is an extremely obvious but still nice shot is the camera pulling back past a fortune-telling automaton, a few block robots, something that looks like it should be exploring Mars, the aforementioned plastic-face machine, and then Cameron. The evolution of robotics, everyone. The Metal March of Progress. The plastic-face robot looks to Cameron and grimaces a smile at her, waving mechanically as it runs through an automated routine. Cameron watches it and the show never quite states what she's thinking but the expression on Glau's face says she's thinking something as she seems to match its expressions and facial tics. A robotic dog, one of those Aibo things, barks at her feet. John nerds out about how many chess people are there but asks his mom how things are going for Andy. Andy is, of course, in a lose-lose position. If he loses, well, he loses. If he wins, then Cameron will kill him and it can be assumed that the Turk will be destroyed (again). And it is not looking good as John remarks that the Japanese are now in total 'zugzwang'. quote:a situation in which the obligation to make a move in one's turn is a serious, often decisive, disadvantage. "Andy's gonna win," Sarah murmurs. Also, we are twelve minutes in to this episode, and we are only now seeing the opening credits. They play over a scene where Charley and Michelle have a brief argument. Michelle knows that Charley is lying about not knowing anything about Sarah being back, Charley admits as much. Back to the chess tournament and, surprising everyone, the Japanese team puts the Turk into checkmate. John and Sarah are both relieved that Andy lost, and after considering the Japanese team as a Skynet precursor, don't go after them. The future provided them Andy's name, not the Japanese team. One thing that seems to be unclear to me, though, is whether the Turk fell for a trick from the Japanese (some kind of 'computational error' that the Turk did not consider a threat) or whether it was the Turk that made the computational error and misjudged the entire situation. Basically, did the Turk throw the game? Resolving to tell Andy everything, Sarah goes to find him. She bumps into the man she saw before coming the opposite way. She finds Andy, shot in the head, and chases down Derek. They brawl and Sarah holds the advantage for the entire fight and Derek tries to run for it, only to get arrested while Sarah looks on. Sarah, distraught but refusing to weep, quietly apologises to Andy. Later, Sarah is running her morning exercises again and Cameron brings her a pencil, advising her to write a note if she can't cry. Sarah just snaps the pencil in half and walks away. This could very much have been its own, complete episode with a bit of expansion to it. I'd just like to point out that we're not even halfway through the episode at this point. But this episode keeps going. John, the hacker that he is, points out that the man the police captured as a barcode tattoo on his arm - he's a resistance fighter. Derek was sent to keep tabs on Andy, it seems, but also managed to kill him. Cameron points out that it wasn't the mission that Future John gave Derek. Sarah resolves to go talk to him and, elsewhere, a Terminator - the one from they encountered at the safe house - resolves to find him, too. The first step in his master plan? Punching out a cop so he will be arrested. Cameron and John talk at school. Cameron doesn't understand why John is doing his math homework after he asked her to do it. It's grieving, Cameron says, and John doesn't understand how Cameron has any idea what that is. Cameron gets called in to talk with the school counselor. Similar to the discussion with Charley and Cromartie, someone being incredibly literal is pitted against someone being evasive. But, wait, Milky, how do you know the counselor is being evasive? I don't. But I do have evidence for something. See, what I think we have here is a dropped plot thread where the counselor played some role in Jordan's death.
Either way, after this episode, it is never brought up again. Ellison meets with Derek, trying to figure all this out. Ellison knows that Derek was at the sight of the Andy Goode murder and at the ruined safehouse. But Derek and Ellison find common ground on the common forensic evidence, something that is like blood but isn't, and Derek's words that everyone is going to die causes Ellison to want to get him to Federal jurisdiction. But, being walked down a nearby corridor, is the cop-punching T-888. As Ellison is leaving the prison, Sarah is walking in, posing as Derek's public defender. They pass by within inches of each other. Sarah is talking to the counselor on the phone and Sarah, ice cold, terminates the call. I can't help but think that the counselor was intending to sort of butter Sarah up to get Cameron to come and see him, what with the whole 'she as PTSD' thing. But, like I said, dropped plot. Derek and Sarah meet. Derek knows who she is and there's a complication - Derek didn't kill Andy, he claims someone else did, someone he hoped was Sarah. All Derek wanted was the Turk, which he didn't get, and now he's in jail with a T-888 coming for him. "If you found me, it will too," Derek says, "And I will not be the bastard who brings metal down on the Connors." Derek: You're prettier than your picture. Sarah: Picture? Derek: Yeah, it's actually how I clocked you. My brother carried your snap for luck. Sarah: Who's your brother? Derek: What does it matter? You don't know the Reese boys, and you never will. Sarah: Reese boys? Derek: Derek Reese. Brother's Kyle. With that, Sarah leaves. Derek is led down a hallway for transfer to a Federal facility. He passes by the Terminator, standing silently in its cell. Effortlessly, it shoves the locked door open and stalks its prey. Sarah reflects: "When John sent Kyle Reese back to protect me, we had two days together. He told me about the future, about the apocalypse, and the terror of a world run by machines. Kyle Reese saved my life. He gave me a son. He never told me that he had a brother. He never told me we would have family. That in our grief we are not alone." After school, John tries to connect with Cheri. Curtly, she tells him to walk away - but not out of anger or disgust, more some kind of resigned sadness. Was there some kind of seed for what would become the (sprawling, messy, too-long) Riley plotline? Maybe. Either way, Sarah is there to collect John and the Tin Miss. They immediately set out to waylay Derek's prison truck, while Derek himself is already picking his cuffs with a pick he concealed within the bars of his tattoo. Cameron deals with the drivers and then breaks Reese out, who puts a gun to her head until Sarah tells him that she's on their side. In the side mirror, the prison Terminator is sprinting after the truck. Cameron, with a sub-machine gun provided by Sarah, goes to face him. The Terminator manages to board the vehicle and Cameron brawls with it in the back of the van with every blow and impact sending the van slewing all over the road. Eventually, Cameron manages to force her opponent through the side of the van and holds him down as Sarah manages to ram him against a parked truck, amputating the Skynet warrior's hand. This show really is quite good about its action scenes. Derek and Sarah meet up with John, preparing to make a getaway. "Where's Cameron?" John asks. "Leave her!" replies Derek. But there she is, as the Terminator throws Cameron through the doors of the prison van, kicks her down and begins punching her again and again with his one good hand. He then turns, takes up a pistol, and levels it at the Connors. But he's not aiming at John, or Sarah. He's aiming at Derek. Just as the robot squeezes the trigger, Cameron lays into him with a big metal pipe. What would have been a killshot isn't, but it's still not looking good for Derek, and he is bleeding, badly, as Cameron pulls the chip from the Terminator's cranial casing. We get another shot of Cameron's face, then, much like when she encountered the primitive automatons at the tournament. Does Cameron understand what she's looking at, that she's holding everything that Terminator is, and how that could apply to her? Is she capable of wondering if she might be in the same position? Because, of course, she may very well be faced with that same scenario. On the Connor kitchen bench, Derek Reese is dying. Cameron looks him over. STATUS: VITAL SIGNS CRITICAL, EXPIRATION IMMINENT "I can't fix it," Cameron states. "You took a bullet out of me!" Sarah snaps, storming out of the kitchen, on the warpath. John: A stun gun - are you nuts?! Sarah: He needs a doctor. John: You're gonna go out and kidnap one?! Sarah: There's an ER a mile away. It's almost dark. John: Mom, this is crazy, all right, even for you! It's insane! Sarah: Well, we have to save him. John: And what happens when you get caught?! Then what?! Sarah: I said we have to save him! John: You don't know who this guy is! Sarah: He's your uncle. He doesn't know. He's your father's brother. His name's Derek Reese. And John Connor, who has never had a father beyond the killing machine that briefly became one when he was a kid, runs for it, right out of the house, presumably unable to deal with being introduced to his uncle just as he is about to die. Meanwhile, Ellison tries to make sense of the police officers who tell him just how the prison vehicle was highjacked. As he walks away, he spies something almost hidden on the side of the road - a hand with metal peeking through the torn flesh. The hand that the Terminator lost during the fight. The final scene is Derek, no longer breathing. As Sarah calls his name, John returns. With Charley Dixon - a paramedic who knows how to keep a secret - in tow.
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Nov 16, 2016 06:26
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As a teacher, I was going to say something about using chess to teach a robot how to think but the new film Arrival (which I saw last night) does it and, really, more eloquently than I could. Go see it! However, for those that don't... These spoilers are very mild and relate to the film in the sense that it is something characters briefly mention. Arrival is a film about communication and understanding. At one point, there is the mention of using games as a way to get across a language barrier and to promote mutual understanding with something that may not communicate like us or even have any common frame of reference. A character points out that using games such as chess could be disastrous, as it invites all thinking processes to align along lines that involve a winner and a loser. Is this an idea also reflected by the Turk, Skynet and John Henry? It seems to be. We watch the Turk grow from a chess playing computer and then guided into other ways of thinking, other ways of playing such as with religious faith and Lego. If Skynet was taught better, would it have made the same actions? James Cameron's original idea for Skynet was that it was consumed with self-loathing for the destruction of humanity and therefore willingly created the causal circle that'd invoke its own destruction, but also its own creation. This is, of course, something forgotten by any Terminator media post T2. Anyway, back to the episode. Queen's Gambit is not a bad episode but, by God, is it busy. Basically, you have:
Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Nov 16, 2016 |
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Nov 16, 2016 06:45
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There are a lot of good opinions in this thread. Glad to see I am not alone in thinking that this show could be incredibly amazing or incredibly crap. I will chime in and say the soundtrack is amazing and at certain points it can really affect the mood of the scene. The end of "To the lighthouse" when we linger on a particularly heart breaking shot the music just hits a perfect note. And the main theme is just perfect https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX8PPaoYwLk Sad notes electric violin notes competing with this massive percussion. For those not in the know it's Bear McCreary of Battlestar Galactica, Walking Dead, Agents of Shield and many others fame. I think the guy is an amazing composer and approx 40% of why I loved Terminator and Battlestar Galactica. The show took a lot of chances in places but really struggled against convention. Sometimes the tonal shifts could be incredibly jarring and lose some of their impact because of bad performances or writing. That said. Some of the set pieces were really inspired and did some imaginative work with the T-1000 like the factory massacre and the bit like Alien on the submarine and it was at it's best when it was reminding the audience that the Terminator stories are not happy ones. The end of episodes like 'Today is the day,' 'Dungeons and Dragons' alongside 'To The Lighthouse' and 'Adam Raised a Cain' All have incredibly effective and emotional denouncements. I am using episode titles here as I want to avoid the possibilities of spoilers for people. Basically I am talking about character revelations and deaths. I do think it was incredibly brave for this show to have 2 main characters who are cold blooded murderers and to play that off of Sarah and John's ironclad sense of morality. It's like the show is battling between being a mainstream cable show or a HBO drama
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Nov 29, 2016 16:59
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This show is a good case study in why executive meddling is a good thing. The "sellout" episodes that were just a bottled "monster of the week" were loving awesome. The old timey Terminator building magnate was wonderful fun. When the show was dead and they basically let the showrunners go hog wild (the second half of S2) you saw that the people making the show wanted to make "art" but utterly lacked the ability to do it. It was at its best when it was silly and fun and at its absolute worst when it tried so say something meaningful.
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Nov 29, 2016 18:57
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TSCC fan here too! I loved it and I was heart broken when they killed it but I think the writers made too many big mistakes. For example: - I really hated the whole story arc (especially towards its end in Mexico) of John Connor and his blonde girlfriend: bleah, she was too cheeasy. - Even the latino Derek lover was a pain in the rear end: the actress tried so hard to be "badass killer" but failed in my opinion. I think the only part I liked her was in the episode when she kidnaps and interrogate the old human Skynet scientist/spy. Anyway, TSCC has been overall a really scifi great tv series: Brian Austin Green and Shirley Manson were stellar in it! Thank God I've recorded the whole 2 seasons so I'll be able to watch it for a billion times. 
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Nov 29, 2016 21:14
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Tiggum posted:I watched the first episode of Westworld and it just seemed incredibly dumb. Like, everything fromt he premise up is just stupid and makes no sense. My biggest issue: They've got those magic guns that only kill robots, right? But then that guy murders a bunch of robots with a knife. Is the knife magic too? And clearly there are people there to rape and torture and murder gruesomely. How are they not accidentally hurting or killing other players all the time? I'd strongly encourage you to give it another shot. Anyone who enjoyed the Cromartie arc is almost guaranteed to like the show, though things are a bit confusing for the first episodes.
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Nov 29, 2016 21:49
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Ditto on Westworld. My parents were watching it and were put off by the violence. I convinced them it was to prove a point about the idea of Westworld and our perceptions. We really start to side with the "hosts" who genuinely suffer. As for the magic guns etc. They don't really talk about the outside world much (Which is one of the best decisions they could make.) But Anthony Hopkin's character alludes that they basically ended disease. In that kind of world anything is possible. One more note on Westworld I like to imagine its an alternate timeline. That the original Westworld film kinda actually happened back in this reality's version of the 70's. Kinda like what Battlestar Galactica did with the old Cylons and Ships The John Connor girlfriend arc was pretty cheesy, but again like so many things in the show it paid off amazingly.
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Nov 29, 2016 22:35
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Knightsoul posted:TSCC fan here too! The arc with Riley could have been shortened. I think it's a very important part of the John Connor character to show his problems with being in the real world when he has been groomed, from birth, to be an apocalyptic savior. They're actually my favorite parts of TSCC when executed well, like where the psychologist comments that John is basically a PTSD case. I think the biggest problem with Derek's lover - Jesse - was that her arc has very little pay off and not much of a climax (although the scene between her and John is neat). She's a casualty of Season 2 as much as anyone else is.
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Nov 30, 2016 02:46
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