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rannum
Nov 3, 2012



The best way to handle Jeigan is to make him the stand in for the "generic" captains that you have to constantly rescue and worry about them dying.

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rannum
Nov 3, 2012



i think you've shown Navarre's Tokyo Mirage Sesssions appearence, but since we just had a chapter focused on him now seems as good a time as any to mention that this is the default form he gives his mirage master, yashiro, in the same game




just


just take it in.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



LordHippoman posted:




Oh, I fully plan on showing or reshowing the TMS forms of these characters when we get to the art update, because holy poo poo.

most of them aren't that bad but then you have yashiro & kiria's default outfits and general nonsense like conquerer chrom, cain's promoted obsession with giant lance out of his back or hat and springy arm navarre and you have to wonder what aesthetic they were actually going for

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



AradoBalanga posted:

For as much as swords get the marquee treatment in the series (every main character lord except Hector, Ephraim and Micaiah wields swords as their default weapon), they do get the short end of the stick in places you'd think they would not. The big problem with the Levin Sword and the other magic swords in the series is that for the longest time, these were the only non-legendary ranged sword options available to the player. So, you had to either pray you had a sword user with a decent magic growth to capitalize, or fight enemy units with absolute dogshit for a resistance stat in order to get the most use out of them. By contrast, axes and lances have almost always had plenty of ranged options like hand axes and javelins to grant units more flexibility in their loadouts. It's why you can dump several lances on say, Abel, and only need to give him one sword since lances have more versatility in combat.

Thankfully, Fates gives the player an option in the form of the Kodachi and Wakizashi weapons so the issue was alleviated a little bit. Which would be fine, except both those weapons come with setbacks like not being able to double opponents. But then the game also created the Kukuri line, enemy exclusive ranged swords that do not have the drawbacks (outside of the basic penalties that steel and silver weapons carry) of the aforementioned Kodachi and Wakizashi...so yeah, swords still get screwed over in the ranged option department.

For what it's worth, all the ranged options have that set back in Fates. Kodachi, Javelins & Hand Axes all prevent doubling, prevent crits and make you easier to double. Wakizashi, Spear & Tomahawks deal more damage & can crit but also are locked to 2 range like bows.

Enemies also get naginata/javelin/axe equivalents to the Kukuri to mess with you, too. Stationery enemies love to get hings like Nageyari, which come in iron/steel/silver flavors and are statistically just like their naginata counterparts except they get 1-2 range with no draw backs. I think it's done to prevent stationery bosses from being pecked away or trapped and still be dangerous throughout the game with their ability to double, crit, etc. while staying concurrent with your weapons.

e: That said swords still kind of get the short end of the stick in Conquest, iirc. Unless you start visiting other castles you don't get access to the Koadchi and have to deal with the Levin Sword (which Birthright doesn't get by default). Likewise I believe Javelins are mostly only available in Conquest. Both games get throwing options for axes/clubs.

rannum fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Jan 30, 2017

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Tae posted:

I like how they decided to nerf every good ranged weapon in Fates, and then introduce literally the best 1-2 range type in franchise history with the Shuriken/Daggers.

I guess the idea is weaken the "normal" options to make the ranged weapon triangle more viable rather than just loading up all your best lance & axe uers with cheap ranged weapons and going to town.

but then they made 1/3rd of the ranged weapons significantly superior despite lower damage so woops.

e: This reminds me, are there not a lot of pegasus/wyvern knights in this game? Or are they all in the back half. Poor bow users if so

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



I have Catria (& Est, who is also good) in heroes and can confirm she's just as wonderful in all forms. Terror of the skies.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



I was surprised how many units you were killing so I looked it up. Every gaiden chapter requirse 15 or fewer units?!

I thought you just needed, specifically, x amounts of deaths by chapter whatever. Which ok I guess is technically still true but not to this extent.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Oh hey, this is the map they used for Fates's Ballistician DLC

It uh....is suddenly very clear why they chose this map, I suppose.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



LordHippoman posted:

Fates has a Ballistician DLC?

That's terrible.


Yeah, it & the Witch are the two classic classes they brought back for dlc. They might be the gimmickiest class in the game and you basically have to go out of your way to dump resources into one to make it worth while. They move up to 5 spaces, can use bows normally, or use their launch command to fire a + shaped set of arrows on the over world (so you could theoretically hit up to 5 enemeis at once) . Their entire skill set is devoted to supporting this.
Note that, like the stationary ballista/launcher/magic orb, they can't actually kill anyone using their launch command. its just to weaken things up to 1 hp.

To say the witch is a better deal is putting it lightly, shall we say.

THey look neat in motion, though. Riding around giant wooden tanks, basically.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



MythosDragon posted:

I actually like thiis chapter, I dont think I've ever been hit with a ballista. So its like a free win. Also my playstyle means Midia is my only Horsy so I like her.


Can I ask why you use Vulneries? Ive literally never touched them outside of a forced tutorial. Exp for the staff gods and blood for the combat gods and all that.


I'm a bit worried about 15, there was an article that said no "Battle Supports" and I have no idea what that means since its basically in the middle of 3 different mechanics, and if it means no actual supports like 11 here, I dont think I can do that.

Pair Up and the Attack/Defense stances are gone (so far as we know), but supports are definitely in and provide the usual boosts to avoid if nothing else. We've also seen some in-battle "Talks" with units you already have so its also feasible we're going back to in-battle talks rather than base talks.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



vilkacis posted:

I think it's supposed to be his shirt - it matches the sleeves more than his skin.

What confuses me though are the... suspenders for his boots? That are secured to his legs with mini-belts???

Looks like extra not-armor padding for his legs?

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Why on earth does Xane get a special class that goes to level 30 but Marth is stuck going to 20
Is it even possible for Xane to get to 30 even starting from 15???

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Camel Pimp posted:

Marth isn't stuck to 20. He can go to 30, although he may not make it anywhere close to 30.

ah ok, must have gotten it confused with a different game

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



MythosDragon posted:

I think 12 is undeniably the overall best Fire Emblem. It does all the things that make FE FE without shunning any of them.

10 is the best gameplaywise, but thats at the cost of supports. 13 is the best supportwise, but thats at the cost of gameplay.

13 is actually my favorite but again, story gamer of course I like the one with the most character focus with all the bad jokes. I GROUND OUT EVERY SINGLE MOTHER loving SUPPORT GOD DAMNIT, DO YOU KNOW HOW LONG THAT TAKES? AN ENTIRE 100 HOURS.

My 3DS suddenly started working again so Ill probably try grinding 14 again after 15 assuming 15 doesnt have the mandatory grinding of 13 and 14.

Edit: I hope they bring back the 9/12 support Map # unlocks, combined with grindable maps you unlock at the very end of the game, BAM ALL SUPPORTS UNLOCKED IN 2 HOURS.

I spent well over 100 hours carefully going through all the (non-S for gen 1) supports. Good times, good times.
Slightly less good times in Fates. Tried to get all the supports (ALL OF THEM, all variants) in Birthright in the middle of the campaign and nearly burnt out on the game; i didn't even try for that in Conquest and only focused on the shared supports in Revelation.

Echoes, at least, seems to be going for a mix of map/support points, so who knows what they'll go with in FE16.


Also, Corrin is kind of weird. Like they're the main character but also kind of...not? Birthright they really don't matter for about 90% of it, it feels. You're just kind of there with the rest of the army until Ryoma shows up, at which point its more his game guest starring Corrin's familial issues.
He's the bigger focus in Conquest, but he honestly matters less than Azura. Like he TRIES to matter but he still just kind of goes along with the flow rather tha ndoing anything stand out or endearing. Azura is the one with the plan that she pushes forward, really.
Revelation Corrin is more firmly the star but still feels like it goes out of focus once you're in the second half of the game.

That said it's not like there's anything inherently wrong with avatars being the main lord, if Ike or Marth were made customizable down to appearence & name they'd still be Ike or Marth, for example.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



AradoBalanga posted:

Echoes is apparently FE16, according to some of the datamined code in the game. Which means that FE15 was in fact FE Heroes.

Oh, neat. Well Heroes did have actual IS staff on it so I guess that's not too surprising.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Here's a bunch of cool items that are in the corner of the map and do absolutely nothing to help you
Are they just there for...score? These maps have scores right

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



EclecticTastes posted:

Falcoknights didn't exist in the original Fire Emblem, the Elysian Whip was added so players could have the promotion they're more used to for Caeda and/or the Whitewings. Dracoknights have lower base Resistance and Magic, which is traditional for the class chain. Not sure why they didn't make at least a couple whips available in the main game, though.

FE1's promotions were nonsense. Pegs become Dragons, but Fighters can't promote and I don't think there were even enemy-exclusive promotions for them. Speaking of, Generals existed but were enemy exclusive and player Knights can't promote. Hunters also couldn't promote and horsemen didnt exist until FE3

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Taking the Est archetype and turning it into the Trainee/Villager archetype was a lot better of an idea. Level 1, trash starting stats, but great growths (or extra levels) and general options and they typically become available in the early chunk of the game. Plus, charming animations.

and side tangent onto heroes' pegasus sisters. Catria is good, oddly bulky with a great attacking special; Palla is reasonable all around with good support & attacking options; Est is strong and resistant but can not take a single hit to the face without caving instantly. Even as 3 star units, they (or at least Catria & Palla) are definitely worth picking up in Heroes while the quests are active.

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Camel Pimp posted:

There's another Fire Emblem wiki (it's dot org instead of com.) It's nowhere near as good, but it does have some pictures the other doesn't. Also Serenes and tumblr.

Actually, I went and tried to hunt down as much art from the fe1 manual (I'm pretty sure it's from the fe1 manual) as I could. Would anyone be interested in what I found?

HOw is this even a question. Shower us with that amazing artwork

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



I always like these kind of things in games, where you get to mess around with the other side &/or use crazy broken units. And Althena, who is here too, for some reason.
I'm surprised they even let characters level up on this map. You only leveled up twice! Fates & Echoes' similar DLC just locks you to your level.


also can't show Katarina's DLC appearance without mentioning she's the reward for the final DLC released for Awakening, Apotheosis. The hardest map offered among the 3ds games, designed for all those people who minmaxed to hell and back!

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Clarisse & Legion also join the game though currently only as enemies.
Considering Althena is also here, this entire heroes update is basically based around this specific dlc map. Good inexplicable timing on your part!

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Echoes/Gaiden's maps are arguably the worst of the lot just because there's just these wide open areas that do not even remotely matter.
Like, ok, this map here? You can see some wide open areas here and there, but over all most of hte map is in SOME use. Enemies are scattered around and everything.
Gaiden has a lot of big empty maps where just entire chunks of the map is just never used. Or has one (1) enemy in it, and a supply tile, that no one will ever use because the enemy (who is entirely non threatening or hiding a subobjective) will just walk over while you deal with the rest. If this map was in echoes there would just be nothing on the right side of the map and also dragons that summon 2-8 other dragons instead of forts.


also chuckled pretty hard at the I NEARLY FORGOT art interruption
your jagen is a national treasure

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



RareAcumen posted:

I can't believe how fresh you've kept this joke.

Can we get a gotoh masterpiece masterpost, please

rannum
Nov 3, 2012



This LP has been such a treat to read, little sad to see it go

the jagen framing device has been *kiss fingers* great


Also going back a bit, the nagi gaiden is interesting just because it's a fail safe gaiden rather than a kill count gaiden. New Mystery didn't have any sort of fail safe if you missed a key component, did it? None of the other games have had a final boss you could just straight up not beat either by making the legendary weapon(s) mandatory, infinite use, or not needed. Just an interesting way to handle it, i guess.

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rannum
Nov 3, 2012



Great LP, again. rip jagen, he afterlived as he died as he lived: telling stories to people who dont care

Also...Gharnef & Medeus are, predictably, in TMS as well. They're not weird on the level of slinky arm navarre, but they're up there. I dont think any artwork has ever been released for them and they didn't get cipher cards, so in-game screens from the wiki will have to suffice

Gharnef: https://lpix.org/2841720/640?cb=20151228205847
Medeus: https://lpix.org/2841721/640?cb=20151229165948[

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