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joke_explainer posted:Is it really that high priority? Like, will not going and prodding this space wizard result in them being unable to accumulate revenue from their worlds? He only lashes out and kills the Emperor because they're building another Death Star, right? He could have spent that cash on his people and made a return in investment and potentially even defused the rebellion. Space wizards know (or believe completely) that their space magic is the most powerful force in the universe. And they are probably right. Everything else is trivial in comparison. Luke is the only opposition space wizard left. With a known powerful bloodline. Luke is the only thing the big papa emps and vader consider a possible threat. To them he is the highest possible priority. And while this was a large fleet for the second deathsphere (I thought we were talkin bout the first) you have to remember that the Empire rules a large chunk of their galaxy. That takes a huge military apparatus. And they brought a super weapon to the fight.
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Dec 3, 2016 01:37
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as for the death star, oh, yeah, it's gotta have been super expensive for sure, but the empire controls the mining planets by absolute force and uses slaves to work them, so the costs of sourcing materials are massively reduced. they don't exist within a globalised world with more prosperous nations they have to trade with to maintain their power: they can just leverage existing assets from indigenous peoples through slavery and genocide, much as the british empire did with grain in india, for instance, bolstering its own economy massively at the expense of rolling famines in the country it was stealing from. what they'd mostly be paying for is expert work in construction and engineering, and professional staff, which would still be a massive expenditure, but given the death star only existed for less than two months it's possible a lot of the full time staff who would have been hired on when construction was complete never got paid. and the empire also controls the Banking Clan, which is equivalent to a combined galactic mint and central bank, so if need be they can just pay costs arbitrarily and cause hyperinflation - there's no prospect of anyone actually trying to collect on the outstanding debt. this would wreak havoc on the galactic economy, but then, within four years from the destruction of the first death star, the empire's days are numbered anyway, and it's feasible they could get by on momentum for the intermediary period even if the coffers are empty. |
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Dec 3, 2016 01:38
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hey, I just realized something! you're all a bunch of... nerds! |
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Dec 3, 2016 01:42
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With few exceptions, the wars were fought on or near planets. |
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Dec 3, 2016 01:48
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What I'm saying is there should have been a scene in Return of the Jedi where Han Solo tries to buy a cruller in Cloud City and is like, "32 million credits?!" And then a friendly droid explains hyperinflation and the economic consequences of the utter collapse of a major public works project to him. |
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Dec 3, 2016 01:55
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On the bright side, he can now pay off his debt to the beneficiaries of Jabba the Hutt using the proceeds from selling one small baggie of drugs, which by the way, Han Solo is a drug trafficker. That's his job. He trafficks drugs for a murderous gangster and he can't even manage to make any money out of it. |
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Dec 3, 2016 01:57
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Android Blues posted:On the bright side, he can now pay off his debt to the beneficiaries of Jabba the Hutt using the proceeds from selling one small baggie of drugs, which by the way, Han Solo is a drug trafficker. That's his job. He trafficks drugs for a murderous gangster and he can't even manage to make any money out of it. |
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Dec 3, 2016 02:03
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wow okay wow this thread i don't even star wars but this is great
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Dec 3, 2016 02:18
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FactsAreUseless posted:I like that Leia kills Jabba by squishing him between two giant radioactive plates. That's my favourite scene, too. It's ironic that Jabba's barge being equipped for mammography was the very thing that would ultimately cause him to be dead, instead of to squish bazongs between huge radioactive plates, like he wanted. |
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Dec 3, 2016 02:26
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I have trouble believing that an army of vat grown clones could ever, EVER beat an army of robots. I mean, ignoring the fact that robots can and should be far more perceptive and have better reflexes and targeting, the infrastructure costs ALONE should grant a massive advantage to the CIS forces, who don't have to worry about housing, food, and only minimal storage, nevermind why their starships had such spacious rooms and hallways for being so heavily roboticized.
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Dec 3, 2016 04:03
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Farecoal posted:hey, I just realized something! you're all a bunch of... nerds! If I end up with kids the only wedding I will pay for is a Klingon Wedding
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Dec 3, 2016 04:03
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Vynar posted:because he is an evil space wizard slave to the other more betterer evil space wizard whol is also an emperor king. They have a brotherhood type of thing as the last of the (in the movies anyway) evil space wizards. evil space wizard nepotism
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Dec 3, 2016 04:19
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Android Blues posted:What I'm saying is there should have been a scene in Return of the Jedi where Han Solo tries to buy a cruller in Cloud City and is like, "32 million credits?!" And then a friendly droid explains hyperinflation and the economic consequences of the utter collapse of a major public works project to him.
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Dec 3, 2016 04:19
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Plebian Parasite posted:I have trouble believing that an army of vat grown clones could ever, EVER beat an army of robots. I mean, ignoring the fact that robots can and should be far more perceptive and have better reflexes and targeting, the infrastructure costs ALONE should grant a massive advantage to the CIS forces, who don't have to worry about housing, food, and only minimal storage, nevermind why their starships had such spacious rooms and hallways for being so heavily roboticized. i can't believe no one pointed this out to Ol' Georgie! |
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Dec 3, 2016 04:38
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Plebian Parasite posted:I have trouble believing that an army of vat grown clones could ever, EVER beat an army of robots. I mean, ignoring the fact that robots can and should be far more perceptive and have better reflexes and targeting, the infrastructure costs ALONE should grant a massive advantage to the CIS forces, who don't have to worry about housing, food, and only minimal storage, nevermind why their starships had such spacious rooms and hallways for being so heavily roboticized. this drove me crazy!! why do they have atmosphere at all on those ships? in an episode of that clone war cartoon they go on one and it is ALL ROBOTS, yet they are piping warm air everywhere? i guess general grevious is a cyborg and sometimes was on robot army ships, but really a full ship-wide life support system for 1 guy?? droids don't even appear overly expensive, after all you see the guy who gets all crispy later buy two with Luke and it doesn't look like a major decision... yet it seems like the standard footsoldier robot is also a terrible shot and incredibly dumb. there's a lot of weird inconsistencies with the droid army. also, despite the proven existence of some kind of targeting computer, it appears like there's very little in terms of consent-to-release firing solutions or BVR engagement strategies. everything happens really up close, when even the simplest radar system would see an operating spaceship hundreds of thousands of kilometers away. why don't they hack droid brains up to make smart missiles they can just fire off ten thousand of if their military might is so high and destroy every single enemy ship before they could even see it visually? also droid space fighters should be able to do maneuvers that would crush humans to red paste. I assume there's some kind of in-fiction inertial dampening like star trek to explain how people can stay alive during maneuvering, but that's just one more expenditure a robot space fighter doesn't need. thanks a lot Plebian Parasite, great point. |
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Dec 3, 2016 04:50
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maybe you need a certain temperature operating range to keep your components working well if they're designed for planetary landings in that temperature range, but i don't think there's any reason you would need oxygen. Just fill the ships with warm nitrogen, that's great, no oxidation so less maintenance, and jedi invaders get dizzy and fall over unconscious in a few seconds then die after a few minutes never realizing anything is wrong, unless the force can warn them of hazardous atmospheric conditions. |
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Dec 3, 2016 04:52
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Vynar posted:Space wizards know (or believe completely) that their space magic is the most powerful force in the universe. And they are probably right. Everything else is trivial in comparison. Luke is the only opposition space wizard left. With a known powerful bloodline. Luke is the only thing the big papa emps and vader consider a possible threat. To them he is the highest possible priority. this is a good point. the space wizardship does seem really overtly important to the empire leadership. I think it was folly though. it's literally their fear of the rogue space wizard completing some kind of destiny to defeat them that creates the conditions that allows him to succeed. |
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Dec 3, 2016 04:54
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joke_explainer posted:i guess general grevious is a cyborg and sometimes was on robot army ships, but really a full ship-wide life support system for 1 guy?? Except that's not even a valid point! In the opening sequence of episode 3, General Grevious busts open a spaceship window and walks along the exterior of the hull!
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Dec 3, 2016 05:01
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Plebian Parasite posted:Except that's not even a valid point! In the opening sequence of episode 3, General Grevious busts open a spaceship window and walks along the exterior of the hull! I looked it up, you're right! Dude doesn't even need life support, he has his own built in. |
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Dec 3, 2016 05:08
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I think I saw some Syrian rebels fighting out of a van. That's sort of millennium falconish |
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Dec 3, 2016 09:25
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To be fair to the Separatist army, their entire purpose is to be a long-term distraction that will absorb the Jedi Council's attention and wear down their spirit. They're not intended to defeat the clones and take over the Republic, because that would actually stymie Darth Sidious' plan - he wants to take over the Republic himself after crushing the Separatists once he's orchestrated his coup. So their droids are crummy, their strategies inefficient, and their generals big twirly robo morons precisely because the last thing Sidious wants is for their war to be successful. If they were efficient enough to be capable of beating the Republic army and occupying Coruscant, Sidious would suddenly have no political power and Count Dooku would have huge amounts of it, putting him in the perfect position to overthrow his weakened master and become the new Sith Lord on campus. I mean, I dunno how he convinced Count Dooku, who really does think they're taking over the corrupt and inefficient Republic on a war footing, to get all his Separatist pals to buy the bad droid from the store. "No, look, this one has a radio comm link! And thin, spindly arms! It'll be like a scare-clone!". One possible explanation is just that these are the same droids produced by the Trade Federation in that other, earlier star wars movie, and so the rest of the Separatist Alliance buying droids from their ally is just a massive diplomatic boondoggle. They know they're lovely, but it's great for the economy. Buy droid bonds! |
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Dec 3, 2016 13:23
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like, sidious created the clone army to his specification, and also is in total control of the separatist project, so he was orchestrating the resources available to both sides in the Clone War. given he wants the Republic to remain strong enough to serve as his future seat of power, and that the separatists are purely a convenient external enemy to create a fertile climate for fascist ideology, it makes sense that he'd give the separatists a built-in disadvantage. |
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Dec 3, 2016 13:27
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also, the separatists have much more limited access to ground troops. it's interesting that neither side in the clone wars seems to think that conscription or even mass enlistment of their actual citizens is appropriate - one wonders what the population demographics are like on their various core worlds such that fielding an army sourced from citizens is actually either physically or politically infeasible. in the CIS' case, their territory is small enough and their demographics apparently professionalised enough that they couldn't put forth a militarily adequate conscription program even if they wanted to. They're technocrats fighting a war with purchased proxies. but, that being the case, and the CIS having a war to fight spanning an entire galaxy and several planetary and interplanetary fronts, they need pure, raw numbers that can quite possibly only be made up with cheap, mass produced droids, assuming you don't have access to luxury clone soldiers. like, what are the material costs like for a droid that's capable of intelligent tactics and doesn't fall apart in a stiff breeze? they actually have some of these in their ranks, and they're genuinely more threatening, but the fact that they do only have a few of them suggests either material scarcity, lack of experts to produce them/produce automated systems that can produce them, or a production time inefficiency vs. even the republic's clone soldiers. that, or there is a traitor somewhere in the upper levels of their hierarchy assuring that their most powerful tools are never properly brought to bear...which is a pretty good fall back explanation for any dumb thing the CIS does, really... |
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Dec 3, 2016 13:49
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FactsAreUseless posted:With few exceptions, the wars were fought on or near planets. nice try, but i know that planets themselves are near stars!
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Dec 3, 2016 15:53
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why do the bad dumb robot soldiers talk to each other, out loud? there's clearly a radio-based comm network in place because they all shut down when they blow up their mothership or whatever, so why the h*ck would they talk to each other out loud with voices?
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Dec 3, 2016 15:55
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"Let's try spinning, that's a cool trick!" - Darth Vader
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Dec 3, 2016 15:58
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Android Blues posted:What I'm saying is there should have been a scene in Return of the Jedi where Han Solo tries to buy a cruller in Cloud City and is like, "32 million credits?!" And then a friendly droid explains hyperinflation and the economic consequences of the utter collapse of a major public works project to him.
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Dec 3, 2016 16:01
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alnilam posted:why do the bad dumb robot soldiers talk to each other, out loud? there's clearly a radio-based comm network in place because they all shut down when they blow up their mothership or whatever, so why the h*ck would they talk to each other out loud with voices? Because George Lucas did a terrible and horrific job and by the point of the prequels he was a big enough star that he no longer had to listen to advice from other people to get things done.
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Dec 3, 2016 16:20
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Vynar posted:Because George Lucas did a terrible and horrific job and by the point of the prequels he was a big enough star that he no longer had to listen to advice from other people to get things done. Roger Roger |
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Dec 3, 2016 16:33
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alnilam posted:why do the bad dumb robot soldiers talk to each other, out loud? there's clearly a radio-based comm network in place because they all shut down when they blow up their mothership or whatever, so why the h*ck would they talk to each other out loud with voices? this is my pet gripe and i can't defend it, it's so stupid. why are the robots so stupid? did darth sidious just hire them from the clown robot factory? god, he made the republic look like fools |
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Dec 3, 2016 16:46
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Ki-Adi Mundi: These terrible clone wars have taken an awful toll on us all. Truly, the Separatist threat is the most menacing spectre the Jedi Order has ever had to endure. Sidious [cracking up]: I bought these robots...gave them stupid skinny arms and a voice like a deflating balloon...and the Jedi are all hosed up about it ahahaha so twisted |
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Dec 3, 2016 16:49
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Obi-Wan Kenobi: General Grievous! Get behind me, Chancellor. This menacing military genius' skill in combat is matched only by his cruelty. He is the greatest living enemy of the Jedi Order! We just can't seem to capture or defeat him! Darth Sidious: krrrmmpffahahaha oh gently caress, im sorry, i forgot i made a giant cyber spider man whose arms spin around im sorry, no, go on, |
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Dec 3, 2016 16:54
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alnilam posted:nice try, but i know that planets themselves are near stars! |
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Dec 3, 2016 16:55
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From aboard his ship The Invisible Hand, the menacing General Grievous wages war upon embattled Republic outposts across the galaxy. Palpatine [texting Dooku]: Hey did we really make grievous flagships name a reference to free market principles Dooku: ye Palpatine: excellent...the sith masterplan to make this the clowniest war the jedi have ever had to endure is coming to fruition...also i want you to install a horn on it that plays "la cucaracha" for the big fleet battle next week Dooku: yes, my dark master |
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Dec 3, 2016 17:00
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Sidious drawing on a big white board with "Jar Jar Binks" on one side, and surveillance photos of him living on Naboo, and a big thought cloud in the middle that reads HOW TO MAKE INTEGRAL? |
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Dec 3, 2016 17:06
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Rumors are abound that since Georgio Lucas wanted everything to "rhyme" with the original trilogy but wrote a terrible plot with weird and dumb (I mean actually everyone behaves as if they are very stupid) characters that Jar Jar Binks was supposed to rhyme with Yoda and be the weird Sith master. But he was hated so much that they gave up on that. But hey Jar Jar has more of a character arc than anyone else in the Phantom Menace so whatever he can be the new Sith Snoke for all I care. Make it happen.
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Dec 3, 2016 17:19
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Android Blues posted:From aboard his ship The Invisible Hand, the menacing General Grievous wages war upon embattled Republic outposts across the galaxy. Android Blues posted:Sidious drawing on a big white board with "Jar Jar Binks" on one side, and surveillance photos of him living on Naboo, and a big thought cloud in the middle that reads HOW TO MAKE INTEGRAL? |
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Dec 3, 2016 17:22
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My heart is cold and shriveled and I can only feel like a human by getting mad at Star Wars. I only know warmth, light, and love while complaining about Star Wars. It is all that I have left aside from Taco Bell. I eat the Taco Bell just to feel alive. Speaking of which Taco Bell had a million dollar Phantom Menace game and I swear I had the rare piece, the McDonald's Boardwalk if you will, but my parents threw it away. Was I wrong? Probably, but I remember being mad about it.
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Dec 3, 2016 17:23
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FactsAreUseless posted:Those are orbs. imperial orb destroyer
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Dec 3, 2016 17:46
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Vynar posted:Because George Lucas did a terrible and horrific job and by the point of the prequels he was a big enough star that he no longer had to listen to advice from other people to get things done. Please try to explain it all in-universe, it makes it more fun. |
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Dec 3, 2016 20:56
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