|
I thought Inq28 was literally just the core Inquisitor ruleset, but just with the ranges changed to account for the smaller scale? Or are you referring to Inquisimunda where it's apparently just an acolyte or weedy Interrogator in charge, rather than a full inquisitor (which doesn't really work for me, but whatever floats your space mans boat I guess).
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2017 11:49
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 02:50 |
|
|
JcDent posted:Inquisitor is for people who like math, but hate their miniature games having point costs. Inquisitor should have been 40k the rpg but with miniatures. What was delivered as a half-assed game, with a seriously bogged down melee system, with plenty of detail, but not enough g in the rpg. And not really enough rp, either, when you really dug down into it. And given that nerds congenitally hate change, and GW basically produced the entire line up in expensive metal kits, in a different scale, with little in the way of conversion/customisation opportunities for casual gamers/builders, that basically skull-hosed the entire thing into the grave from turn one. If it had been released either at 28mm from the get-go, or the big 54mm kits had been plastic, that might have helped with the traction. If it had had a proper balance system, with a levelling system, and all the little RPG bits to go with it, and an unfucked close combat system to boot, it might even have been successful, especially given that it was intentionally released alongside Abnett's Eisenhorn books. Instead we got a game that could have had potential, but was pretty much terminal from the word go (the frankly terrible advertising on the part of GW didn't help either, as there are tons of people from that era who never even knew it existed in the first place). Too much focus on detail, and not enough focus on balance, campaign play, stories, or GM support (which was literally just a few pages at the very end of the core rulebook, and nothing else).
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2017 12:46
|
|
|
To work with 54mm, you end up having to convert, and to do that with GW stuff you have to put some stupid amount of effort into it. It's also stupidly expensive. What I'm saying here is it is objectively stupid. It's doable, but only the crazy ones will put in the effort. At 28mm you have a poo poo ton of options and parts, and not just the GW ranges either. You just have to resist the urge to push the "spehs mureen" button, and try and do the cool poo poo guys like Blanche do over on the ammobunker forums.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2017 14:28
|
|
|
JcDent posted:Play Gangs of Nu Ork. Wish you had done a haiku now. I've actually got some gorkamorka lying around. Ditto necromunda. Guess I'll look up the designer guy in a moment
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2017 18:14
|
|
|
My only non-GW experience so far is Battletech (good but clunky and slow - which is sometimes nice, because at least the hit/not hit is pretty clear), or Infinity (I like a lot of what I learned during my practice games). I've grabbed the 5MIN, but not 5MaK (the new edition), and I've not even gotten around to his sci fi yet, although based on my skim reads of 5MIN, it's possible that 5Parsecs would do the job. And FAD for larger games. I'm probably going to need to convince a few guys from the local group to try out the rules, especially at a campaign level, before I know what I actually think and can form an opinion. I've also skimmed the one-page "X" games (x being whatever, from 40k to army men), but again, without playing several games, or attaching a suitable campaign system behind it, I can't really form a cogent opinion. I do like Necromunda and Mordheim though, warts and all - it's the combination of skirmish and campaign, as I've said a lot in the Death threads. I even like the concept behind Inquisitor ("Let's let players roleplay as space detectives/space secret agents, just like this Eisenhorn thing"). It's just a pity the execution was... less than great. And also lacked a campaign system. Honestly I'd have liked to see Inquisitor be re-written as a more streamlined RPG style game, with campaign, GM support, and ideas taken from other games (Like Battletech's initiative system, or a lot of features from Infinity, or some of the crazy crap from Necro/Heim, and any of the positive things from 5Core/FAD), but I doubt that'll ever happen. Well, short of kludging something together anyway.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2017 18:46
|
|
|
If I was going to re-write 40k from a skirmish perspective, as a killteam style thing, I would probably steal the initiative system from battletech (loser moves first model, winner moves first model, etc), and then use the infinity stats/dice system, and the ARO/Orders system also (to a degree anyway), and then attach some sort of experience/campaign system on the back end, borrowing either from what I know (Necro/Heim), or from an RPG. I'd probably still prefer to use the Necro cover system, as while the infinity system is waaay cleaner, and reduces the issue for tournament play, I would want to design the killteam style game for campaign play, and emphatically not tournament play. If I was going to rebuild Inquisitor, I'd probably just gut the mechanics completely and port it into some sort of D20 based system instead, with points, combat ratings, whatever works best (although I hear Fate/Cortex systems are also good??), and the requisite experience system and so on, and just admit that it should be an RPG/campaign system rather than something which hovers between RPG and Wargame and doesn't quite seem to hit either note very well. Then people could do exactly what they're already doing anyway (play it at whatever scale they like best) but hopefully get a better game/style of game out of it if they wanted to play it at an RPG level rather than an Inquisimunda/Dark Heresy acolyte/interrogator level. Of course this is just all pie in the sky dreaming. In the meantime I'm enjoying the Necromunda campaign at my local gaming group, including the fact that I'm running Van Saars, with the necessary abuse of techno skills (6 armourers, 2 weapon smiths, 2 inventors, 1 medic, and 1 specialist - so far).
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2017 19:09
|
|
|
54mm plays well with gw cities of death terrain. Or zone mortalis. Or a few other things. The point of inquisitor is that it's cramped , dingy , close and claustrophobic. But that is all objectively stupid also. Of course if you're willing to accept that this is dumb as all hell then you're good to go. And lots of terrain is better. But it's a lot of work if you build your own so there's that. In a way 54mm is easier for painting because the details are bigger. But screwups are way more noticeable so YMMV.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 10, 2017 22:37
|
|
|
Ashcans posted:I would like to paint things in 54mm, but you do get way less stuff to work with. It mostly seems to be for vanity projects like special display figures and stuff. The ruleset was basically DoA unless you were determined to make it provide fun "galactic grimdark space detetive super agent" games. Really determined. Frankly Dark Heresy provides (provided?) a better alternative now anyway for that stuff, as do a few other options to lesser or greater degrees, although I've yet to see a true 1:1 replacement which actually does a good job of creating a game that is not poo poo, but captures the actual feel of being an intergalactic space cop that blows up planets every other tuesday. Plenty that come close now though, thankfully. 54mm is a nice scale to practice painting with and there are many non-GW sources (some of which are arguably better, some of which are absolutely clearly better) for stuff to build and paint (and convert, if you really want to).
|
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2017 09:48
|
|
|
JcDent posted:Inquisitor is about being rogue cops fighting other rogue cops. ~a loose cannon, living on the edge~
|
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2017 11:38
|
|
|
To be fair you can also have admech dudes, genestealer cults, chaos cults, xenos cults, recidivists and revolutionaries, low level daemons, witches, mutants, arbites, the occasional space marine, titan crews, knight pilots, planetary leaders/governors, scum scoundrels rogues thieves gangers, rogue traders, starship crew, traitors, radicals, astropaths, navigators, guardsmen, navy troops, air crew, assassins, death cultists, and a shitload of other character types i haven't thought of or heard of yet. Just look at anything John Blanche does if you're lost for ideas or creativity. It's just that everyone wants to be eisenhorn or ravenor or whatever so that's pretty much all you see.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2017 15:03
|
|
|
One of GWs many screwups in writing books. An inquisitor comes into conflict with an awful lot more than other space cops. You only need to read Abnett's work to see that in action. Or Ian Watson's inquisition war. There's a lot of sources for stories outside of just internecine conflicts. But you're totally right when you accuse GWs poor organisation and writing of sending the wrong message to the readers. A lack of clarity is one more issue with those rules. It needs an editor armed not just with shears or even a lawn mower. We're talking the use of an industrial grade combine harvester to clear out the junk.
|
|
#
¿
Feb 11, 2017 16:30
|
|
|
I watched the part of the video where the GW guy talked about the box, and it's basically killteam - they're using Necromunda rules to create a GW version of Infinity-as-killteam, with 40k forces. If I put any money into getting this at all, I'll just grab the rules (or wait for a rules review) and see what's what. My guess is that this isn't worth it and isn't a real Necromunda re-release, given that it's not going to have the gangs in it (it's set on Armageddon, during the war, involving Blood Angels and Orks, so it's pretty easy to do the math).
|
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2017 09:48
|
|
|
Thundercloud posted:It has rules for Cultists and Neophyte Genestealer Hybrids. I give it two weeks between release and the Necromunda gangs having rules based on those. Here's hoping. The FB comment thread has them saying this game will have campaign rules, so this looks like a semi-reasonable killteam replacement (albeit one that isn't Heralds of Ruin so YMMV). The terrain looks nice, at least. And is apparently customisable? But honestly I can get cheap click together terrain elsewhere, so that's not exactly a dealmaker for me.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2017 13:12
|
|
|
Thundercloud posted:If it's £35 to £40 then it's still an absolute steal. When I move I'll start painting up terrain. The terrain isn't a huge deal for me, but I think combined with an Imperial Sector it would look really nice. I think the price point, based on the addition of bigger scenery than was in Lost Patrol means it's more likely to be towards the £50 end of the pricing spectrum. Lost Patrol had half the number of scouts and a similar number (give or take) of 'stealers to boyz, as well as only having cardboard hexes. With double the number of scouts, plus some actual (and apparently very customisable) plastic terrain, I'm sure that this will be a bit more costly on the wallet. I wouldn't be surprised to see it in the £50-£60 range. But yes, you're right, £40 as a price on something like this would be fantastic, as it would mirror the old pricing for starter sets we had back when things like the Battle for Macragge box set were being sold.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2017 14:51
|
|
|
Thundercloud posted:Gangs of Commoragh though has £70+ of models. Good point. I guess it depends how valuable they think that plastic terrain is vs card. Hopefully it won't be too punishing a difference, because this is a good product for GW to do for any existing or previous customer, and I like the possibilities inherent in this.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2017 14:59
|
|
|
TKIY posted:Unit cards confirming more models: That's a commissar, Harker, an admech guy, a storm trooper, an ork mek (?) and some other orky thing. I guess these will count as the "hired guns" or something?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 16, 2017 16:46
|
|
|
If it's actually £130, then GW can go take a running jump. I'm not paying that when I only want the rules. I guess I'll wait for the rules/extra bits to turn up on ebay or something, from the guys who are dumb enough to buy multiple sets to get their hands on the terrain. If it was the same price as the KillTeam box, I'd consider it, but anything more is just deserving of a middle finger. Maybe not even that much, as I don't know if it's even worth the energy.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 17, 2017 09:43
|
|
|
Hustlin Floh posted:these are units from a standing army instead of gingers, and therefore have better logistics. 
|
|
#
¿
Mar 17, 2017 15:31
|
|
|
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/03/shadow-war-armageddon-ork-stats-unveiled.html More stats and stuff. This looks like not much has changed for the 2nd ed/NM rules.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 18, 2017 07:43
|
|
|
SteelMentor posted:
Bulk McGlare
|
|
#
¿
Mar 19, 2017 11:45
|
|
|
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/03/shadow-war-armageddon-promo-cards.html Some minor details on the cards - two specifically. These really look like they'll take the place of hired guns.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 19, 2017 17:25
|
|
|
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/03/40k-shadow-wars-armageddon-latest-pics.html BolS posting with more pics of the game. Looks like there's going to be punch out tokens to worry about.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 24, 2017 11:29
|
|
|
Okay, so I'm looking into newcromunda, and I've already gone and bought the new orlocks because they look pretty cool. I'm probably going to grab their faction dice/cards (and I guess the other faction cards so I can get all the generic cards?). Do I need to grab the core box if I'm only interested in campaign play? Or can I get everything I need by just getting the Gang War supplements, the cards, and the dice? And as a minor tangent - has anyone played Osprey's Scrappers game? If so, what's it like (good, bad, etc)?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 27, 2018 16:22
|
|
|
muggins posted:Unless you can find the necromunda rulebook on ebay, you have to buy the huge expensive box. drat okay. I've spotted it solo a few times but I've also got a few  pdfs of the rulebook as well. Would those get me through?
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2018 08:08
|
|
|
Snidesworth posted:If you plug "necromunda underhive transcribe reddit" into Google you'll arrive in a wonderous place.  This is the best thing, thanks!Now I'll just save for those cards/dice, and be good to go! (and get Scrappers on the way past I guess). E: it looks like ITT and judging by my skim of the rulebook, bigger gangs are better now (whereas before, you got taxed out the rear end if you had more than 10 dudes in a gang)? So maybe I'll need more than just one box of Orlocks in a campaign? mcjomar fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Feb 28, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2018 12:23
|
|
|
I tend to like doctors/medics if it gives me reassurance (or the illusion thereof) that I might be able to prevent the loss of an important gang member, so if I can get hangers on at some point during a campaign, I'll probably go that way first (or pick medic as the savant skill for one of my champions maybe).
|
|
#
¿
Feb 28, 2018 16:43
|
|
|
Leader sawn off stub pistol servo claw 4 gangers autogun 2 gangers shotgun Juve stub pistol knife 2 champions spear gun 40 credits left: I could spent on stub pistols for everyone, or upgrade the spearguns to heavy stubbers to give me more dakka. The speargun is cool, what with impale, drag, and the damage, but it's short ranged, while the heavy stubber is still a reasonable heavy weapon, with the range to reach across a board if you can find the right spot. The Orlock models seem to conform to the modern style of largely monopose torsos and legs, with ability to vary arms and heads, much like some of their other kits. Bases aren't bad - nice but generic detailing. I'm trying to figure this out now rather than later, unless I decide to get a second box of these guys, which would solve the issue quite nicely. plan with the above loadout would be champions and autogun gangers providing covering fire, while the leader and shotgun gangers (plus juve meatshield) advance on objectives. I'd prefer lasguns due to their ammo roll, but the only way to get those for Orlocks is to buy them from the trade post later on.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 1, 2018 13:03
|
|
|
Yeah, that's sort of my approach here, although I do worry about backup weapons, or a lack of melee options  .I'm sort of thinking, maybe, one champion with a speargun, one with a heavy stubber, and then use the 20 credits left over either for stash, two knives (for champions) or 4 stub pistols (for whoever maybe needs them). The shotguns and autoguns look a bit similar in the kit (both have drum mags), but I think the shotguns have two barrel-ey bits on the front of the gun, while the autoguns have one thicker muzzle (right?). A pity, as I'd prefer they were a bit more distinct to tell them apart from a few feet away. I guess it fits the Orlock style of "lots of solid dakka slung downrange" though.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 1, 2018 18:48
|
|
|
bonds0097 posted:Thats all less than 1000 credits? I barely managed a 7 man gang. Wait, poo poo, I miscalculated. I guess some guys will be carrying junk for the first few games, Edit that list for all the gangers to be carrying stubguns I guess? Or the harpoon gun is replaced by a stub pistol and a knife for a game or two, maybe? So: Leader 120 sawn off 10 stub pistol 5 servo claw 30 Current total: 165 4 gangers 220 4 autogun 60 Current total: 445 2 gangers 110 2 shotgun 60 Current total: 615 Juve 30 stub pistol 5 knife 10 Current total: 660 2 champions 190 Heavy stubber 130 Stub pistol 5 knife 10 Final total 995 Give the melee champion the harpoon gun after a game or two (for 110 credits down the line) and see what happens. I'll still build the model with the harpoon gun, I guess, but say "counts as" for a few games or something. (This is what happens when I do my numbers late at night, and forget to carry the 1(hundred)  )E: harpoon gun is move and shoot, so spearchamp goes forwards with the assault team. Leader, meatshield juve, shotgun gangers, and spearman are the objective takers. Heavy stubber and 4 autoguns and the cover fire, defensive, dakka team. It splits the gang down the middle, but hopefully that's not too bad. E2: or I could replace the two shotguns with stub pistols for the first game or two, and give the champ his speargun back (and take his stub pistol off him so I can buy the heavy stubber guy a knife so that both heavy weapons have backup knives) mcjomar fucked around with this message at 22:27 on Mar 1, 2018 |
|
#
¿
Mar 1, 2018 22:13
|
|
|
For me I'm willing to roll with the "continued support" stance, although I find it really frustrating, as I'd like to see what Van Saars look like. On the plus side, I'll find out in a few months, so there's that. Locally, there's interest, as it's a pretty die-hard 40k area, so I can at least guarantee eventual battles and opponents as things carry on. I'm willing to bet that they're trying to time their release of the last of the core house gangs with the release of the upcoming Necromunda PC game (or visa versa perhaps) to capitalise on cross-platform interest (is it possible they learned from the mistake of AoS vs Warhammer: Total War?).
|
|
#
¿
Mar 7, 2018 10:31
|
|
|
I've got a small gorkamorka force in the bottom of a carry case I can't bring myself to part with. Two trukks, a buggy, some warbikes and about 12 of the original GM orks. It'd be nice to whip that force out if GW ever did do something nice with that game. and last page discussion has now made me wonder some more whether it's worth grabbing a second box of Orlocks to model up more/different gangers.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 12, 2018 09:40
|
|
|
That's a lot of effort! Well done! RE: Backbreaking I've noticed this with my own painting - I'm beginning to wonder if it's something to do with my seating position, or the quality of my chair, or something like that? Any painters ITT got any suggestions for ergonomic solutions? (my first guess is "buy a better chair you cheapskate!" which I'm intending on doing).
|
|
#
¿
Mar 13, 2018 10:35
|
|
|
I've had time to sleep on this, so my reaction is now a case of cautious optimism regarding kill team. It looks interesting, but I'll need to see the rules/see it in the wild before I go haywire over it. The Van Saars don't look bad either - apparently they've got an update to the fluff that they're slowly being poisoned by an STC system (which is broken and leaking radiation, thus the need for suits and I guess those wierd techno braids). At least we're seeing a few girls in what was previously a male-only gang (in terms of models). Q2 is looking like the best release month so far for this stuff I guess.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2018 09:18
|
|
|
I'm sort of liking them. I like the rifles/shotguns anyway, and the plasma pistols are cool. I wonder what that giant cannon is?
|
|
#
¿
Mar 15, 2018 19:29
|
|
|
I've played the new necromunda rules a couple times (3d only) and it feels a hell of a lot better than the old game. Feels wierd to say that. I like the alternating activation (I've always preferred that over IGOUGO), I think the bottle test is now better, and the weapon stats and ammo roll rules are nicely improved. Orlocks running: 3 autogun gangers 2 shotgun gangers juve with twin stubbers juve twin autopistols champion heavy stubber champion with stub pistol and knife (He'll get speargun later if this gang goes into a campaign) leader with stub pistol and servoclaw (this dud rips people apart in close combat). It's proving to be a very flexible gang with a nice spread of shooty and choppy dudes - I have 40 credits left over, which I guess I should use for grenades or something. On the other hand, I tend to suffer from analysis paralysis, and end up playing the stereotypical slow game of hugging cover, and taking aimed potshots. The choppy half of my gang mitigates this a little, but it's still a thing in this edition, much as it was in the last edition - plus the usual arguing over +1 vs +2 for TLoS shots. That last bit is now the worst bit, and definitely hasn't changed since last edition. At least working out hit/wound rolls is nice and easy now. Or easier than previous edition, anyway. I think this might be (dare I say it) a Good Game.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2018 08:35
|
|
|
Genghis Cohen posted:Not a problem when I've tried orlocks - 10 has been my benchmark for good enough numbers to sustain a few people in recovery at any one time. Long as you don't take more than 1 really expensive heavy or special weapon you should be fine. My rationale is that you quickly acquire currency and can up-gun your gang. But you want enough people from the start, because they will start gaining experience and several will often be in recovery. Literally this - if I tried to fit in both a speargun dude, and a heavy stubber dude, I wouldn't be able to manage more than 8. By using two juves with relatively cheap weapons, and only equipping my gangers just with a basic weapon and nothing else, I can afford to have my leader with the signature servo claw, and one champion with a heavy weapon (while the other sports a pistol and knife until I can afford that non-bulky speargun). That gives me a leader with iron will to make it even harder to force me to bottle, a champion medic (I'm thinking from a campaign perspective), and a champion munitioneer to deal with those annoying ammo rolls - which I forgot to make use of in my mid-week game.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 20, 2018 15:53
|
|
|
So, while I've successfully started games with the full 10, the question is - I've got another set of 10 orlocks. Should I keep them and assume I'll somehow get more than 10 dudes down the line during a campaign? Or should I assume I'll probably never be able to break past 10, and sell the extras? Has anyone played/completed a necromunda campaign far enough with the new rules to tell?
|
|
#
¿
Apr 26, 2018 10:24
|
|
|
Galaspar posted:I haven't got campaign experience, but for when I do, I'm stockpiling a few extra unbuilt Orlocks. Your gang might or might not get larger, but you will almost certainly upgrade some weapons as the campaign goes on, so it will be handy to be able to build new minis to represent that rather than retro-convert what you've already made and painted. There will be new weapon options in a week or two from Gang War 3, and eventually FW weapon packs, so having some spare models to arm with these could be useful. I've already built that second box (I got too excited for my own good). I've got one spare autogun ganger, two spare shotgunners, a second speargun and heavy stubber, a second leader-esque model, and then 4 dudes with pistols and knives. I guess I'll keep what I've got, as shotguns are downright dirty, and autoguns make for great mini-heavy stubber type weapons, but with more mobility. Plus a horde of choppy juves to use as meatshields is always fun. Thanks!
|
|
#
¿
Apr 27, 2018 08:30
|
|
|
So I've skimmed Van Saar. Nasty stats, but pretty expensive, especially if you want the signature rad cannon. Can't see plugging in more than 8 dudes to start with if you want anything good. I'm loathe to suggest plasma weapons or melta-combis, due to scarce and "click!". But the laser shotgun is ungodly - all the abilities of a shotgun, but with plentiful to boot. You only get two in the box apparently though. Box weapons: 10 lasguns 4 plasma pistols 4 laspistols 2 laser suppressors (shotguns) 2 melta-las combi weapons I think 2-4 of the las-carbines 2 plasma guns 2 rad cannons/guns close combat weapons (a couple shock staves and some other bits). That's a good amount of expensive poo poo. Starting with 8 dudes rather than full 10 seems like the only way to free up the credits. If you start with: Leader 130 Champion 110 Champion 110 Juve 35 Ganger 65 Ganger 65 Ganger 65 Ganger 65 That's 645. That leaves 355 credits to play with. Rad cannon is 130, leaving 225 for guns. Give all gangers lasguns, that's 40 credits, so that's 185 Juve gets a laspistol and shock stave for 10 total, that's 175 between your other champion and your leader. With only two laser shotguns in the box (and laser shotguns are nasty) I'd give one to the champ, and one to the leader, leaving 95 creds to play with. Now, the suggestion about a shooting skill, plus plasma gun sounds fun, so maybe give the laser shotgun to a ganger instead of the champion, and give the champ the plasma gun - that's +10 for the swap of the lasgun, and -100 for the plasmagun, leaving you with 5 credits? Seems like a bad idea, but give the champ a laspistol because "click". Or don't do this, and instead use the 95 creds and give the leader and two champions 4+ saves with mesh+bodyglove for 45 creds total. That leaves 50, which is the price of a plasma pistol on the leader. Or the energy shield which gives +2 to saves (both ranged and melee) in forward arc. Or a pair of power knives for the leader and shotgun champ (one each). Van Saar shouldn't be in combat if possible though (their best ws is 4+ so they tend to suck - combine that with a max of 2 wounds on both leader and champ, and the crappy initiative scores, and these guys aren't great for melee or much physically), so probably a bad spend on the knives - Van Saar are clearly the gunline/sniper gang of this edition (and so should be playing keep away as much as possible), while Orlocks so far feel like a great all-rounder gang that can do both melee and shooting quite comfortably, with plenty of dakka to sling downrange. The plasma and melta stuff for Van Saar is great and all, but scarce and/or "click" tend to put paid to these guns a lot at my table (having had Orlocks until now, it's usually my escher opponent(s) suffering from this), so my experience suggests that normal and/or plentiful guns tend to be the better option in general, and still do just fine for rmurdering a dude, even when they have mesh armour as standard (orlocks are shorter than eschers, meaning they get better cover bonuses on average, so my minis are great on defence). Maybe I'd use some points to buy a carbine or two (they're basically better laser autoguns) as rapid fire has proven to be a very good thing to have on the board. Maybe not so much the las-stub carbine though, as laser autopistols don't strike me as a good investment (I've found normal autopistols to not be so great). The big question is "is the rad cannon worth the investment to blast dudes with rad phage?". That auto-flesh wound on a hit (not counting other damage) is sort of nice. But on the other hand, it's nice to just murder a dude to begin with. Dumping the rad cannon for a plasmagun sniper would free up 30 creds (25 after buying the obligatory backup laspistol) to spend on other poo poo. If we assume being close up is bad, then expensive pistol/melee weapons are a waste of credits/trap choice, so laspistols only make sense as backups for plasmagun snipers, and plasma pistols and melta combis make little sense at all. 355 becomes 250 after buying plasmagun+laspistol for champ1. becomes 190 after buying 2 lasguns and 2 carbines for the 4 gangers becomes 180 after buying laspistol and shock stave for juve (no point having twin pistols). becomes 100 after buying laser shotgun for leader and champ2 becomes 55 after buying mesh armour for leader and both champs. 55 could get a gunsight for the sniper champ (or sniper leader, with two shotgun champs...) with plasmagun and maybe some other bits. Maybe backup laspistols for leader and champ2 as well. E: no, they can't. A monosight looks like the best purchase (causing the least arguments, overall). Rough list looks like this: Van Saar 1000 Leader 130 Plasmagun 100 laspistol 5 Mesh armour 15 250 Champion 110 Laser Suppressor 40 Mesh armour 15 415 Champion 110 Laser Suppressor 40 Mesh armour 15 580 Juve 35 Laspistol 5 Shock Stave 5 625 Ganger 65 Lasgun 10 700 Ganger 65 lasgun 10 775 Ganger 65 LasCarbine 20 860 Ganger 65 LasCarbine 20 945 Mono sight 35 (on plasmagun) 980 4 laspistols? Plasmagun could go on leader or on a champion, it really doesn't matter too much, they both have a 2+ BS stat. mcjomar fucked around with this message at 10:15 on May 8, 2018 |
|
#
¿
May 8, 2018 09:31
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ Apr 28, 2024 02:50 |
|
|
long-rear end nips Diane posted:
It'll suck as enemy gangs get better weapons down the line, but no it's not even close to enough. The WS hit (nothing better than a 4+ anywhere to start with) probably won't help much as it can be fixed down the line, and lovely init values (nothing better than 4+ here too) has the same issue, as does only having 2W on the leader (compared to Orlock's 3). In fact the leader having a 5+ init suggests that anyone playing Van Saar is better off mounting that plasmagun sniper build on a champion to deal with knockback issues when stood next to edges on 3d terrain (that +1 bonus from a barricade that you should be using anyway brings a champion's 4+ to a 3+ giving them a good chance to avoid falling off when shot). The Van Saar bodysuit can't be stacked with an armoured undershirt, but even so, the armour buff from that combined with the mesh armour makes for a pretty good armour save (4+) - best in game, outside of people who use carapace in the late game. These drawbacks only help during early game - if at all. Van Saar are a min-maxers/Tau player's wet dream, given the auto access to savant and shooting skills, not to mention a spread of basic guns that autoreload because of the plentiful rule. The only way to take these fucks down is: have poo poo tons of LoS blocking terrain (if you're not doing this anyway, why the gently caress not?) murder them in melee (Escher will have a field day here, as will Goliath, Orlock somewhat also but to a lesser extent than the other two). pull them out of position by choosing mission types that gently caress with their need to sit still and snipe (or just force them to come to you if they want to have any chance of playing a game, or, y'know, winning) Basically, Van Saar suck in melee, and will hate being forced to play the offensive game, as their statlines don't really gel with that style. Flip side is, if you're a Van Saar bastard then the best way to work this is to abuse the basic weapons - las shotguns especially - combined with the naturally superior BS. The plasmagun is still nasty on the move, and laspistols will force pinning checks at least. If this hail mary doesn't work, and the opponent got into close combat, then you're hosed anyway so just move on, and focus on the dudes you might still save. Throwing the energy shield on the champs and leader sort of makes sense in this situation, as it will give a +2 to the armour save (great against those escher power swords and plasma pistols), but if you've got someone stabbing your leader in the face then you've done something very very wrong as a Van Saar player. You dumb bastard. The best reason to bring along the Rad-Cannon is to bring your opponents toughness down to your (Van Saar) levels so that your basic guns can go to work. Same tricks apply as in other parts of the game - shoot the dudes who haven't shot yet so they waste an action standing up, leave your already-pinned dudes down until the end so they can't be shot so easy (only works at long range though), don't waste time on activating characters who can't contribute to murdering the other guys (if they're downed or not able to move to a position where they can murder a dude, then they count as being worthless for your early activations - this isn't battletech and init sinks don't exist in the same way).
|
|
#
¿
May 8, 2018 14:39
|
|