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GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Let's Play Infinite World

Infinite World is the lost Budokai game. The back of the case appropriately calls it “the best of the Budokai series”, and it appears to be intended as a celebration of the first three games. It got pretty bad reviews for reasons I don't entirely understand, aside from the new mini-games and huge difficulty curve. It's understandable why some people would be a bit bothered by those. Still a personal favorite of mine, because it's pretty drat weird.

drat weird?

It's easier to show than tell, but it definitely does feel like an amalgam of the previous games. Yes, including Budokai 2. It had an old, tired heart, but it was still beating strong. Just maybe not strong enough to compete with Burst Limit, which came out six months earlier in the same year, and was seen as a much more successful evolution for DBZ fighting games.

How will the Let's Play go?

I'm going to do a single run through Dragon Mission mode. We'll end things right after the battle with Omega Shenron and the credits roll. Full disclosure, there are extra missions and battles that unlock after that, but I have absolutely no desire to share those with anyone. This is a good game, but the difficulty wears out its welcome somewhere in the GT Saga.

Get ready for a lot of fighting and uh... some 3D platforming, sometimes. Yeah.

Videos















What a trip.

GamesAreSupernice fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Feb 28, 2017

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Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead


I thought the earlier Budokai games had Raditz die very messily? Are they censoring the later Dragon Ball games?

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Scalding Coffee posted:

I thought the earlier Budokai games had Raditz die very messily? Are they censoring the later Dragon Ball games?

No, that's just graphical limits in action. I don't think any Budokai game had a messy death for Raditz, since they use in-engine cutscenes, thus the model can only go so far.

The censoring actually happened in the anime, with Kai, due to changes in what can be shown in TV. The open wound from the Makankosappo became a burn mark. It's silly.

Also, I'll be the first person to say it: I really don't like Infinite World. I think the negative reviews are what the game deserves. If it is meant to be a celebration of the Budokai series, it does an awful job. Cutting out several characters in favour of GT is bad. The minigames are horrendous, with the checkpoint one being slow, boring and nonsensical. The difficulty curve is bad as well, but I feel in general the Budokai series has problems with difficulty spikes. I genuinely can't see a reason to recommend this game over Budokai 3 or Shin Budokai.

About the video itself, I don't think the checkpoints look like the XV gates at all beyond being hexagonal. The checkpoints here are pretty simple and sharp, while the XV gates have spheres on each corner, in black and white, having an overall slightly more complex design.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts



That opening minigame just makes me think of Superman 64. That's not a good portent.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Scalding Coffee posted:

I thought the earlier Budokai games had Raditz die very messily? Are they censoring the later Dragon Ball games?

The earlier Budokai games had more expressive models, at least.


Blaze Dragon posted:

The difficulty curve is bad as well

This is something I can absolutely agree with. As for the rest, I can at least see where you're coming from.


Kaboom Dragoon posted:

That opening minigame just makes me think of Superman 64. That's not a good portent.

You're actually not the only critic to say so! I think at least one professional review mentioned that.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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You even dress orange what's up with that?

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



You call this a celebration of Budokai, and don't understand why you're Yamcha in the taunting training? Yamcha vs Tenshinhan was the taunting training in Budokai 3 as well. That said, there it had actual dialogue between both that was funny and made the training nicer by having some character bits, something that isn't present here because that'd take more effort than they were willing to put, apparently.

Though i have to give credit to the cutscenes, they are pretty well done, better than the VN-style ones in Budokai 3. But Budokai 3 also had a world map that let you see different things and didn't lock you to Goku, so...one step forward, two steps back.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Blaze Dragon posted:

You call this a celebration of Budokai, and don't understand why you're Yamcha in the taunting training? Yamcha vs Tenshinhan was the taunting training in Budokai 3 as well.

So it was a reference I didn't understand.


Blaze Dragon posted:

Though i have to give credit to the cutscenes, they are pretty well done

The cutscenes are also superior to Burst Limit's, and the voice acting as well. The acting isn't exactly on par with the original Budokai, but it's decent.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts



This game loves to make you literally jump through hoops, doesn't it.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Kaboom Dragoon posted:

This game loves to make you literally jump through hoops, doesn't it.

Well, that depends. Your jump gets a lot of vertical, not much horizontal. It's much better to dash through hoops.

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead


Good thing Snake Way was a couple minutes of walking.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Scalding Coffee posted:

Good thing Snake Way was a couple minutes of walking.

I like to think of it more as a brisk jog.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Now I'm upset and you have to die.

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead


Recoome has the best charging animation of all time.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Scalding Coffee posted:

Recoome has the best charging animation of all time.

You really gotta exert yourself to reach maximum power.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Oh god, Recoome's post-ultimate explosion has the Ginyu Force logo in it. That's wonderful.

What isn't wonderful is that Porunga model, holy poo poo that's ugly.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Blaze Dragon posted:

What isn't wonderful is that Porunga model, holy poo poo that's ugly.

I imagine they thought you might blink and miss it.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Get up, Gohan. Don't be a weenie.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts



"So, how did you finally turn Super Sayan, Gohan?"
"Well, first Dad ran away from me a lot. Then he hit me so hard, I saw Captain Ginyu again. Somehow, that... worked?"

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

Oh, whoa! Check out the Viewing Globe, shorty!


Kaboom Dragoon posted:

"So, how did you finally turn Super Sayan, Gohan?"
"Well, first Dad ran away from me a lot. Then he hit me so hard, I saw Captain Ginyu again. Somehow, that... worked?"

If only Goku were smart enough to pretend he did it on purpose.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



This shows exactly why putting the focus only on Goku is a terrible idea. Goku spends a lot of the series off-screen, so the others can shine a bit, especially in this saga - giving us this mess of minigames with only one fight. A fight that isn't even the climax of the saga, because that was Gohan's.

Talking about Gohan, I don't get why the training here has less attention to detail than in Budokai 3. In that game, Gohan had his Vegeta-style armour, and in the tutorial that was meant to happen in this part he was correctly shown in it (Goku, not having said outfit, had his epilogue clothes instead since...at least they're blue, close enough). Here, both have their usual clothes which they did not wear at this part. There's no reason for this, considering this isn't a whole new game, it's still Budokai, and the textures should still be usable.

Also the Dragon Ball minigame looked lame but I'll give them credit for having Goku as a Super Saiyan in it, since at this point in the story neither him nor Gohan left the form except to sleep so they could properly master it. Also I can't complain about having an easy way to get the Dragon Balls when it can get grindy and annoying in other games.

Finally, you pointed out that Cell was intelligent enough to use his super move mid-combo but you couldn't. I distinctively remember this not being the case in Budokai 3, where four squares then circle would have Goku use the Kamehameha as his combo ender (and I think the same combination applied to other characters, though my memory is a bit hazier there). Is that not the case anymore?

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Blaze Dragon posted:

I distinctively remember this not being the case in Budokai 3, where four squares then circle would have Goku use the Kamehameha as his combo ender (and I think the same combination applied to other characters, though my memory is a bit hazier there). Is that not the case anymore?

One of the main mechanics of Budokai was how special attacks were integrated into the combos seamlessly, but that's not the case with Infinite World. We could use the kamehameha mid-combo, but it wouldn't hit anything and it's probably not intended for that. Kid Goku, however, has a moveset that leans toward it much better. But that's way in the GT fights.

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead


Did Cell have his Imperfect voice for that fight? That seems to be a thing with these DB games.

Goku had a fight with the other Androids and the rest of the Ginyu force fights. I am guessing there are 20 fights with Buu to make up for this shortfall.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Scalding Coffee posted:

I am guessing there are 20 fights with Buu to make up for this shortfall.

Well there are many fights with Buu, but I don't know about twenty.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Scalding Coffee posted:

Did Cell have his Imperfect voice for that fight? That seems to be a thing with these DB games.

It's inevitable. Only the English dub gives each Cell form a different voice. As such, the voicebanks for all of Cell's forms in-game are the same, thus no matter the transformation, they'll remain the same.

This isn't the case in Xenoverse 2 entirely because Cell (Imperfect) and Cell (Perfect) are separate characters.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Blaze Dragon posted:

It's inevitable. Only the English dub gives each Cell form a different voice. As such, the voicebanks for all of Cell's forms in-game are the same, thus no matter the transformation, they'll remain the same.

That's actually really cool trivia, thanks.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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It's not fair, I'm better and you suck.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Wait, so now the game gives fights to people other than Goku? Why not do that before? Weird game!

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Mercy and power have nothing to do with it.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



That battle with Kid Buu really did look frantic as hell. It must've been a lot of fun!

Also I'll never understand why the Budokai series gives Kid Buu's ultimate the name "Instant Transmission Kamehameha". There's no Instant Transmission at all in it, and if you block, there isn't even a Kamehameha!

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead


I give the game points for ignoring Gotenks. Him and having to fight dozens of Buu's, are something I dread in Xenoverse.
I don't see where the game is supposed to be some celebration of the series. It skips out on the story and barely has cutscenes. It would be better to get rid of them or explain what happens in the saga.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Blaze Dragon posted:

Also I'll never understand why the Budokai series gives Kid Buu's ultimate the name "Instant Transmission Kamehameha". There's no Instant Transmission at all in it, and if you block, there isn't even a Kamehameha!

Wait, it has a Kamehameha if you don't block successfully?


Scalding Coffee posted:

I give the game points for ignoring Gotenks. Him and having to fight dozens of Buu's, are something I dread in Xenoverse.
I don't see where the game is supposed to be some celebration of the series. It skips out on the story and barely has cutscenes. It would be better to get rid of them or explain what happens in the saga.

I think the cutscenes are way too gorgeous to get rid of, but the game also doesn't seem interested in explaining anything.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



GamesAreSupernice posted:

Wait, it has a Kamehameha if you don't block successfully?

Yeah, if attack wins, Kid Buu finishes the move with a gigantic Kamehameha that even overwrites the Vanishing Ball.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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The final video.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND



Too good AI is poo poo to fight against and this is no different. That the GT Saga is unfun and painful to go through is true to the series though!

I'll give Infinite World points for actually adapting at least a bit of GT's super mind-screw of an ending though. I expected none of it.

Talking about mind-screw endings...what the gently caress was that credit roll?

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Blaze Dragon posted:

Too good AI is poo poo to fight against and this is no different. That the GT Saga is unfun and painful to go through is true to the series though!

I'm sure it made people who played this game hate GT all the more yes. I liked GT and I still have some minor feelings of resentment whenever I think of the villains, because of this game.


Blaze Dragon posted:

Talking about mind-screw endings...what the gently caress was that credit roll?

Do-Rah-Gon Ball Pahtee, didn't you hear the guy?

Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead


Blaze Dragon posted:

Yeah, if attack wins, Kid Buu finishes the move with a gigantic Kamehameha that even overwrites the Vanishing Ball.
I love how Buu decided to take Goku's signature attack he copied from Roshi and named it after himself.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts



Wow, that's it? Seriously? 20-odd fights and then BIG AMERICAN DANCE PARTY? Is there much in the way of other stuff to do? Because I remember Budokai 3 having loads of additional content outside Goku's storyline in Dragon Universe.

GamesAreSupernice
Jan 3, 2014

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Kaboom Dragoon posted:

Wow, that's it? Seriously? 20-odd fights and then BIG AMERICAN DANCE PARTY? Is there much in the way of other stuff to do? Because I remember Budokai 3 having loads of additional content outside Goku's storyline in Dragon Universe.

There are additional fights that unlock after the credits, and a Survival game mode. But I had absolutely no desire to play the game even remotely longer, especially since many of the fights are repeats with different characters.

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Scalding Coffee
Jun 26, 2006

You're already dead


The extra cutscenes were hidden in the credits. It is amazing how little was shown.
What is the deal with the ki bars under your health being small or large?

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