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I just want to kick Ted in the dick yall
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Mar 13, 2017 19:54
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 01:48 |
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FAUXTON posted:
I love everything about that picture.
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Mar 13, 2017 19:54
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Norns posted:I just want to kick Ted in the dick yall Ted came off as turbo-hitler to me Also rolled my eyes at the lame-o "I did it 3 minutes ago!" watchmen reference
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Mar 13, 2017 20:01
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Norns posted:Someone brought up advanced humans from the ship vs aloy and her Dino robot army. I think a significant portion of the next game is going to be spent around APOLLO and the attempted recovery of it. Sylens seems to think that HADES communes with it somehow because it revealed to him concepts such as physics and calculus. I think he also sees the practical value in being able to raise an army of ancient machines to do his bidding.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:01
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Lakbay posted:Ted came off as turbo-hitler to me I wish they had done a better job at developing him. His "turn" comes practically out of nowhere. Like, it makes sense with what we know about it and stuff, but he's developed as a character. Which is another reason he's not particularly interesting as a villain.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:03
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Lakbay posted:Ted came off as turbo-hitler to me He does come off as some strange Adrian Veidt reference that misses the mark. edit: also, random thought I love the decision that they need to encode the Apollo data on "fossilized DNA" (whatever the hell that means) because it's the only medium that's reliable enough, and yet here are audio, video, and text logs all over the place that are just fine. Maybe if you'd just made a few thousand copies of the data on flash drives there wouldn't have been a problem? Instead somehow Ted "erased" fossilized DNA from the internet I guess? This part of the game was dumb. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 20:04
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Snak posted:I wish they had done a better job at developing him. His "turn" comes practically out of nowhere. Like, it makes sense with what we know about it and stuff, but he's developed as a character. Which is another reason he's not particularly interesting as a villain. His turn makes a lot of sense if you really think about what kind of state he must be in after basically starting the apocalypse. It makes even more sense if you read the ingame lore and learn he joined a weird anti-technology cult to cope with it all.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:08
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Nail Rat posted:He does come off as some strange Adrian Veidt reference that misses the mark. Fossilized DNA for storing information is a thing that people have been working on a while. The idea is that it can last several thousands or even tens of thousands of years if that what Gaia needed. Meanwhile, it's been 1000 years and the more "regular" tech is almost too corrupted to read, but your little head computer is doing its best to pull it back together.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:10
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bloodychill posted:His turn makes a lot of sense if you really think about what kind of state he must be in after basically starting the apocalypse. It makes even more sense if you read the ingame lore and learn he joined a weird anti-technology cult to cope with it all. yeah, I get that. I read that stuff. He just doesn't feel like a very developed character. So even though it makes sense, it's not something I'm emotionally invested in or find interesting. And, I mean, they put a lot of work into making Elisabet's struggle feel real, and the story of the Vantage Points guy, so it's not like all the character writing can be that level. But I guess I must have missed some of the logs about Ted, because I didn't get much of him joining the anti-technology cult besides "he did it". So there is probably more that I missed.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:11
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bloodychill posted:Fossilized DNA is a thing and the idea is that it can last several thousands or even tens of thousands of years if that what Gaia needed. Meanwhile, it's been 1000 years and the more "regular" tech is almost too corrupted to read, but your little head computer is doing its best to pull back together. Seems like a tall order for fifteen months, how many bones would you need to store all of this data? And how do you organize them? Also it's been 1000 years but the first generation of humans were released after 250 years...and Apollo was supposed to be played back at those video consoles in Eleuthia. Does it go grab an artificial bone like a jukebox depending on what lesson you want to take? Even assuming this was all fossilized, how would Ted "erase" "every copy" just like that? If it's stored on physical media, that doesn't really make sense.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:13
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If you're writing custom DNA and fossilizing it, it can be high density data. I don't think you need bones at all. You encase it in glass. Higher density than binary. edit: TED doesn't have to erase the physical story, he only has to erase the decryption software that the computer systems use to read the physical medium. If you brick every CD player, you don't need to break every disc.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:17
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Snak posted:If you're writing custom DNA and fossilizing it, it can be high density data. I don't think you need bones at all. You encase it in glass. Higher density than binary. I stand corrected then. ...my final question still stands though. Seems like a dumb deus ex machina for him to just obliterate all of this highly proprietary physical media like that from a remote location.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:17
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The mission which ends with you being given a spammable grenade launcher by that forgewoman is great. I'd seen someone else say that it was a shame you didn't get to keep it. So after the final wave of bandits, before talking with the woman to finish the quest, I decided to go on a little trip with it. The game didn't let me walk off the side of the platform with it, so I dropped it off, jumped down and picked it up again. Then I walked the entire way to the nearby thunderjaw spawn holding down L2 and R2 the entire way. The opening salvo took out a quarter of its health. I've not even tried to fight a thunderjaw yet, and was expecting to die very quickly after my one and only shot. But for some reason, the grenade launcher immediately reloaded. As in the ammo ticked from 0 straight to 6, rather than counting up 1 by 1 like it did when reloading by the ammo bowl. 3 more salvos and I've killed my first thunderjaw, and two ravagers who were nearby. It was amazing. Looked around for something else to murder with extreme prejudice and saw a stormbird back on the other side of the fort I'd just come from. Walked all the way back, and as I got close to the fort the reloading stopped bugging out. Had to climb back up to the ammo bowl to reload. Tried doing exactly what I did with the thunderjaw. Started next to the ammo bowl, dropped the gun off, jumped down after it and walked a long way away from the fort holding L2 and R2, but it stopped insta-reloading. So I couldn't kill the stormbird. Instead I was left with a useless weapon after my first shot and was swiftly killed by the robot eagle. Really made me wish the grenade launcher appeared outside that mission. Cutting through that thunderjaw like a hot knife through butter was something special.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:19
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I mean, you're not wrong. When I was playing through, I actually got the impression that they were two separate systems. That, while some people working on the project decided that synthetic DNA was the solution, seeing the APOLLO facility, I assumed that they went and built a non DNA based APOLLO system. Which is what Ted destroyed. And that the DNA is still kicking around somewhere. You know, in Aloy's brain.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:19
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Nail Rat posted:Seems like a tall order for fifteen months, how many bones would you need to store all of this data? And how do you organize them? The whole Horizon Zero project was a tall order that Sobeck wasn't totally sure she'd be able to pull off. Like they were working around the clock with near unlimited resources to even do what they did. Regarding the last point, I actually agree. I think one of the points in contention in a sequel is that whatever will of Ted is left (probably some weird Egyptian-themed cult) is basically going around wrecking any version of Apollo they can find. I think they're probably the group who started the game's events off by disabling Gaia because they wanted to use the sub-AI's for something and Gaia, being somehow literally more sentient than humans and completely brilliant, would have stopped whatever plans they had. Hades and the others are easy for them to manipulate since they are far simpler. Someone said in the other thread that Gaia's saying that "through [Sobeck's clone], everything will be possible" implies she may have also encoded a ton of poo poo hiding in Sobeck's DNA somehow to help restore Apollo. Sounds like a plot possibility in the sequel.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:23
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yeah, Aloy not being an exact genetic match to Elisabet + DNA storage seems kind of like a hint. There's lots of reason why she might not be a 100% match, but the level of technology we're talking about here might as well be magic, so... it could (or couldn't) be anything.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:25
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Every cell in your body but your neurons gets replaced every 7 to 10 years. That alone would probably cause some missmatches?
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Mar 13, 2017 20:31
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I thought Ted simply the turn because it feels like mohawk Hades programmer dude was gonna be the culprit and then the game is just like nah it was really Ted not him. I didn't think much of it. Mohawk Hades programmer guy was nuts too though, I forget his name though.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:32
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Nail Rat posted:I stand corrected then. It could be that the fossils were still fossilizing, you know? He unplugged the oven before the bread could leaven. And yeah I bet some of that DNA is in Aloy somehow. Maybe she has a foreign bone splinter in her thigh or it's coded into her magnificent hair. E. I wonder if we'll get a Red Sea so Faro's Chariot (bots) will sink into it.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:33
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Norns posted:Every cell in your body but your neurons gets replaced every 7 to 10 years. That alone would probably cause some missmatches? I mean... eh? DNA is what your body uses to replace the cells... Yes random mutation can occur which would cause a missmatch... but I'm honestly not sure of the rate as I am not a scientist. Like, I said, the whole "magic" thing. Current DNA matching technology is super "primitive" and requires culturing DNA samples until there is enough (although I'm sure you can skip this if you have a giant-rear end blood sample) and then looking for specific genetic markers. The Cradle facility shines a light on you and can scan your entire genome. So. Like. 
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Mar 13, 2017 20:37
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I think Sylens is an attempt at remaking Apollo created to gather culture and information by GAIA.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:39
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FAUXTON posted:
Her weird chinstrap thing bothers me way more than it should.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:40
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The fact that Lumpy space princess was the alpha on the HAPHESTUS team is pretty funny
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Mar 13, 2017 20:41
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I do like the moral dilemma of Far Zenith being secretly a success and them returning for the sequel. It hews a little too closely to the backstory of the Helghast and ISA in Killzone, but the question of who actually "inherits" the world when none of the original owners of it are around anymore offers a nice, solid question of who deserves dominion: the people that were created by the successful operation of Zero Dawn, or the ones that were born on a generation ship and just want to get back home. Also, I'm glad this thread exists, since I posed a question as a spoiler just a few days after the game came out, and of course it was completely drowned in responses as people just started to drink things in, so I guess I'll just re-post it here. Can we talk about how great it is to have a character like Sylens, who is motivated purely by self-interest? I can't recall a character that was as well-written and basically a dick (to which Aloy often responds), and it's basically just a case of it being a mutual benefit to tolerate him. Lance Reddick did a great job (as usual), but it's hard to make a character that's deeply unsympathetic and yet you still at least admire in some way. The dude basically opened pandora's box and became the most knowledgeable person in the entire world until Aloy came around, and his thirst for understanding is completely relatable to me. He's an unapologetic realist, and it's rare to see that kind of curt, no-bullshit perspective in an ally. I hated him at first, but the more I think about what he did and why, it makes sense, and I could see myself doing the exact same thing if the wonders of technology were opened up to me. Great, great Deal with the Devil-type background for him.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:41
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Paul Zuvella posted:Her weird chinstrap thing bothers me way more than it should. How about Sylens having glowsticks inserted into his chin. What's that good for?
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Mar 13, 2017 20:41
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Turtlicious posted:I think Sylens is an attempt at remaking Apollo created to gather culture and information by GAIA. Yeah but without love and compassion baked in it will be a disaster. He's too mercenary.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:42
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Nail Rat posted:How about Sylens having glowsticks inserted into his chin. What's that good for? He's not the only character who has those. The machine blood drinker has fibers like that inserted into his body as well.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:44
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My favorite character moment between Sylens + Aloy came when she stands there at the hatch to GAIA prime and it just opens up for her. Sylens says something like "I burned, I blasted at that door for years, but what I needed was a key." I took that to be a symbolic representation of Sylens' reckless self-interest versus Aloy's compassion. It's also a preview of how his own unchecked access to knowledge will prove calamitous and destructive.
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Mar 13, 2017 20:45
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Rascyc posted:I thought Ted simply the turn because it feels like mohawk Hades programmer dude was gonna be the culprit and then the game is just like nah it was really Ted not him. He was an intentional red herring in the narrative. Like you were meant to think he was loving everything up because he made Hades too strong. But then it turns out, he just has a difficult personality and did right by Sobeck in his own way. Turtlicious posted:I think Sylens is an attempt at remaking Apollo created to gather culture and information by GAIA. This is a really neat idea, maybe true. Like maybe there are actually quite a few people around who are essentially Gaia agents who she was using to fix problems that would crop up. And of course, none of them know, much like Aloy not even knowing she was a Sobeck clone. bloodychill fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 20:45
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The best Aloy / Sylens moments were when they were telling each other to shut up
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Mar 13, 2017 20:49
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I need to find a way to go back and check, but I swear the hologram of General Aaron Herres had the same face as Zaid, the Carja war criminal. Now, they don't have the same voice actor, and it was hard to make out because Herres was a hologram at a distance. So I could be completely wrong. But when I recognized the face, I had horrible feeling. Like Herres had to sacrifice people to save humanity. During the red raids, the Sun King had this same idea. What if, somehow, fragments of records uncovered about Enduring Victory lead the Sun King to believe that human sacrifice was the key to salvation? Like, later revelations just kind of imply that HADES was manipulating people to make life end sooner, but idea that the Shadow Carja learned about the sacrifices made as part of Zero Dawn/Enduring Victory, and because they didn't understand the context at all, drew completely wrong conclusions, is really tragic. Like, thematically, this game explores ideas that "voices from gods" can be accurate and based on real things. But at the same time, like with all religion, interpretation and context is really important. So when and educated person like Aloy finds a ruin full of corpses and a bunch of recordings saying that their sacrifice was made so that mankind could live on, she understands what they are talking about. But what happens when a less educated person finds that? What conclusions do they draw?
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Mar 13, 2017 20:59
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Nail Rat posted:How about Sylens having glowsticks inserted into his chin. What's that good for? The Banuk have weird rituals where they embed machine parts in their body to try and better understand them, or something like that. A datalog explains it all. I'll try to find it when I get home and post a screenshot.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:02
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It's not uncommon for games to reuse character models, and since you only ever see Herres through crazy filters and weird poo poo it's probably likely they just used a model they had lying around.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:02
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Herres looks totally different from Zaid.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:03
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And Horizon reuses models like something whoaaaaaaa.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:03
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exquisite tea posted:Herres looks totally different from Zaid. Thanks, I only saw Herres once from a distance. Either way, it was just the catalyst that got me thinking about where Shadow Carja ideas of human sacrifice came from.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:04
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Snak posted:Thanks, I only saw Herres once from a distance. I mean, they are pretty obviously based on Aztec human sacrifice practices. It also has appeared in many other cultures as well. Looking into the fiction for a reason 'why' the carja developed this way is probably a fools errand.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:06
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Snak posted:Thanks, I only saw Herres once from a distance. Primitive or not, I don't think human beings need any outside help coming up with bad ideas. The idea of what happens when a non-educated or superstitious person comes across past technology is a compelling one, though. We already see how much further ahead Aloy is in her understanding of the world having grown up with wikipedia for the last 10 years.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:08
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exquisite tea posted:Primitive or not, I don't think human beings need any outside help coming up with bad ideas. It also helps that she is a complete genetic copy of the worlds greatest super genius.
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Mar 13, 2017 21:09
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Paul Zuvella posted:It also helps that she is a complete genetic copy of the worlds greatest super genius. It's kind of a brilliant plot move to silence nerd complaints about Aloy being too knowledgeable at points. "Well, she grew up with the Focus all her life and she's an exact clone of a woman who entered Stanford at 13 and saved the world from destruction."
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Mar 13, 2017 21:12
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