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Andyzero posted:Main Character Destin could kill her, spare her, and in some cases recruit her. ...and in some endings, marry her. Do you have a source for that? That sounds loving awesome as hell, but I looked it up, and none of the endings even seem to regard whether you kill her or spare her.
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Dec 10, 2017 18:05
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mauman posted:Nope, it has to be one of the spare options, since the game flat out states in the character logs that she was part of the Xenobian magicians corp. matsuno is solely responsible for the writing/universe of tactics ogre in a way that george lucas absolutely isn't. i would say he totally has authority on what counts and doesn't count in the series that he created, but as far as i know he only ever said he would have done knight of lodis differently, not anything as internet-y as 'its not canon'
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Dec 10, 2017 19:54
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Shitenshi posted:Do you have a source for that? That sounds loving awesome as hell, but I looked it up, and none of the endings even seem to regard whether you kill her or spare her. .....wait, you can't?! :looks it up desperately: I could have sworn. I thought this was the case for years. I clearly was warped from a parallel universe where this was the case.
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Dec 10, 2017 23:13
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GulagDolls posted:matsuno is solely responsible for the writing/universe of tactics ogre in a way that george lucas absolutely isn't. i would say he totally has authority on what counts and doesn't count in the series that he created, but as far as i know he only ever said he would have done knight of lodis differently, not anything as internet-y as 'its not canon' We've been over this before. He doesn't own the IP. It doesn't matter how much writing he did or did not do. Plus you're own point is invalidated by the fact that other's wrote for the universe by releasing another game. Multiple games in fact (OB 64?) If someone wants to believe that it's not-canon, then fine that's cool. Ain't a crime to have an opinion. But you can't say empirically and factually not canon till the current owners of the ip say otherwise. Anything else is pretty much 
mauman fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Dec 11, 2017 |
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Dec 11, 2017 01:07
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ok well I didn't say anything about empirical belief and ob64 has no bearing on him creating the series so uhhh lol? my opinion is that the original author gets the final say but the point of the post is that it was all moot because he never said anything about canon in the first place
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Dec 11, 2017 01:36
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mauman posted:We've been over this before. He doesn't own the IP. It doesn't matter how much writing he did or did not do. 
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Dec 11, 2017 01:41
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it would be pretty funny if matsuno was still trying to exercise creative control over tactics ogre while drinking himself to death and being forced to work on that horrifying looking 3ds game
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Dec 11, 2017 01:44
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GulagDolls posted:ok well I didn't say anything about empirical belief and ob64 has no bearing on him creating the series so uhhh lol? my opinion is that the original author gets the final say but the point of the post is that it was all moot because he never said anything about canon in the first place That's cool. Some people just want to tout it as fact. I just want it to be known that it's merely opinions. Like I said, it's cool to have an opinion. And some people in the thread have stated that he said it wasn't canon. So yeah  Birdstrike posted:weird picture  If this is an attack at my statement, know that it wasn't my intention to be stupid and/or offend. Just trying to have a debate. The emoji was me just trying to be cheeky in a funny way. Please don't take that the wrong way.
mauman fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Dec 11, 2017 |
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Dec 11, 2017 01:55
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i think the interpretation that he's saying lodis isn't canon with this line: Q: At one point Barbas calls Pope Sardian a “novice”, but how old is the Pope supposed to be? A: Keep in mind this is a different setting than the one from “Ogre Battle 64”. I meant him to be in his twenties. is pretty weird because he says the same thing about march of the black queen Q: I was startled by how young Iuria is. Wasn’t she supposed to have been in romance with Gilbert, from the Empire? A: Please forget that setting for Tactics Ogre. (Matsuno) as funny as it is to imagine him saying his own game is fanfiction for no reason, i think hes always just been saying "yeah some of the background for this stuff gets rewritten as necessity dictates"
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Dec 11, 2017 02:03
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Andyzero posted:.....wait, you can't?! :looks it up desperately: I could have sworn. I thought this was the case for years. I clearly was warped from a parallel universe where this was the case. The marrying Deneb ending is actually proof of the multiverse theory
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Dec 11, 2017 02:19
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I like how they've set up Catiua as doing some mysterious what-the-gently caress. Man, that could be anything. These dark knights are depraved.
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Dec 11, 2017 05:34
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The next few fights are extremely boring (as in, I was one shotting enemies) and contain very little story content so I'm liable to skim over them in brief. mauman posted:
He's saying in a roundabout way you're posting a lot of words. The picture is from an Australian "comic" called "first dog on the moon" which is basically an essay with some pictures attached a few times a week.
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Dec 11, 2017 06:27
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Episode 56 - Timeskip There's three fights between us and our sister. Two of them are filler boring bullshit. The third one is interesting, but simply put, we're extremely overpowered in comparison to what we're now fighting.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY       -----------//-----------   Next up on the speedbump express.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY    Finally, the penny drops.    -----------//-----------     : Come to storm Barnicia Castle and rescue the Princess fair? : You may find her a somewhat...unwilling companion. Ha ha! -----------//----------- Enemy Composition Condition(s): Kill Andoras. Red Andoras (Knight Commander) Templar x4 H. Cleric x2 H. Wizard H. Archer x2 H. Witch Earth Dragon Flame Dragon Dark Dragon[/b] Another speedbump, but a good one with a lot of story to it. -----------//-----------  : Enjoying your time afield, Ozma? I'd be interested in hearing which you prefer: This, or the Dark Knights. : What am I to make of that? That you wish to desert Loslorien?: A slave does not bear the burden of choice. I serve at the Dark Knights' pleasure.: I'm glad you know your place. You are Sir Lanselot's man now, body and soul.: There is no future for you or your people that he does not command.: Spoken like a true daughter of House Glacius.  -----------//-----------   -----------//-----------  : Closing your eyes when it suits your purposes, always a caustic word on your lips. : It was never about your people, was it? It's about you.: The Nildahme were doomed from the start. Once the invasion had begun, there was nothing I could have done to stop it. : Yet though my homeland has perished, I defend her people to this day!: A convenient stance, to be sure. What possible quality did I see in you, Andoras? 'Tis a mystery to me now. : Or perhaps it is only that he wants to marry a daughter of House Glacius.: I'd hold my tongue, were I you, lest it slip and reveal your cowardice.-----------//-----------     There's a big ol' loving tarfield between the enemy and us. It cuts down your movement by a lot - only fliers have anything more than 2 movement in it, even Ninjas.    X2        To put it in perspective, Levi has the tanking stats of dragons.               How the gently caress do you miss a Petrified loving STATUE    -----------//-----------   : This is no errand to leave to another. I am not come to abduct a Princess - I mean to persuade my sister to leave!: And if I told you the princess was not in Barnicia Castle? That this was a ruse to lure you out?: A lie! Our men risked their lives to glean her location.: Yet even if their reports were false, it would change nothing. It is you and the rest of the Dark Knights in Barnicia Castle who are our enemies, not the Bakram!   I think Levi has a fan -----------//-----------   Christ, these events keep firing off within seconds of combat resuming -----------//-----------  : A winged from Xenobia.... You can only be Canopus. : I'm surprised to see a Bolmoccan slave at the head of a Dark Knight army. : Your bearing marks you as a member of the Nildahme royal house, or what's left of it. : Lodis brought ruin on your kingdom, yet here you are, serving them on bended knee.: What of it?: Do you bear no loyalty for your fatherland? : How can you fight beside those who destroyed your home? How can you aid them as they visit their sins upon another? : If you had any honor at all, you'd put a dagger to their throats, or failing that, your own. : How amusing! I think I'm growing to like you, bird man.: So that's the way of it! Sounds like there's a story here, a prequel of some sorts, I don't know who Gilbald was so I can't talk about him - I'm sure there's plenty of people itt who can go on at length. -----------//-----------      Thankfully we have only one more event to trigger -----------//-----------  : You pretend yourself a slave to protect your people, whom Lodis holds hostage?: Ha! It's you who's taken with wild fancies. : Your guilt over Gilbald clouds your thoughts.: You mean to say your allegiance to Lodis is heartfelt? : I spare not a thought for my people. : It is fortune who brought down our royal house, already decaying from within. : Slavery is a fitting bounty for the people of Nildahme!  -----------//-----------     +1 Block       Time to wind up  well poo poo, that was quicker than I thought -----------//-----------  : I hope you're not thinking of leaving!: I admire your spirit, boy! Can't wait to see what happens once you take Barnicia!: What? You think this a game!?     Next up - a family reunion. tithin fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Dec 11, 2017 |
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Dec 11, 2017 10:52
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I wonder if Gilbald is supposed to be Gilbert.
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Dec 11, 2017 10:59
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mauman posted:I wonder if Gilbald is supposed to be Gilbert. Don't know who that is either! You're welcome to go into it if you like though
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Dec 11, 2017 11:48
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What a bizarre scumbag.
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Dec 11, 2017 12:12
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i'm gulbald
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Dec 11, 2017 12:19
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Birdstrike posted:i'm gulbald They have creams for that you know
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Dec 11, 2017 12:22
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tithin posted:Don't know who that is either! I actually looked it up, and Gilbald is in fact Gilbert, a character from the original Ogre Battle. Simply put, Gilbald joined the "evil empire" which seriously jaded our favorite man-chicken. If you looked around you'd find Canopus' sister Iuria who would reveal that Gilbald joined the empire to protect his people, as the alternative was genocide (Gilbald is seriously guilt-tripping about this, too). Revealing this to Canopus would get him to join the army, then you'd go beat up Gilbald (simultaneously liberating his people, how convenient) and Canopus would tell Gilbald to stop wallowing in self-pity (he didn't believe that he deserved redemption) and join up as well. Happy ends for all. Also, in case you're wondering Gilbald is a beastmaster who looks like all beastmasters do (BIG BURLY MEN WITH BEARDS AND WHIPS), who is also heavily implied to be romantically involved with Iuria.  In fact, in the original game, one of Canopus' death quotes was for Gilbert/Gilbald to take care of his sister. mauman fucked around with this message at 12:28 on Dec 11, 2017 |
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Dec 11, 2017 12:22
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So the thing about Andoras is that he's awesome, but there was a subtle but significant change to his sprite. You see, Andoras in the original TO was darker. A lot darker. Meaning the only dark skinned person in the game is a warrior from Nidhame. A country full of people like him who are enslaved....  Oh Japan
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Dec 11, 2017 15:44
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waah posted:So the thing about Andoras is that he's awesome, but there was a subtle but significant change to his sprite. You see, Andoras in the original TO was darker. A lot darker. Canopus' quote when he recognizes him is changed too. In the original it was "from the color of your skin and the hairiness of your body"
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Dec 11, 2017 16:17
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I can see why Canopus is so rough, to try and get Andoras to see the reality of his situation, but Ozma as some noblewoman talking down to this guy who lost everything, is too painful. I know they added a new backstory to get her to come across as sympathetic, but all I can think of here is Algus giving poo poo to Delita. I'd prefer it if she mocked Andoras for serving the Dark Knights on some promise of them not hurting his people, when in reality the Dark Knights are liars who will not live up to their word. She'd know that better than anyone. And if you wanna see Andoras in the original, it's easy to find him in a Google Image search, one of the first few things that comes up in fact, but just be warned that it's kinda spoilery. Shitenshi fucked around with this message at 19:33 on Dec 11, 2017 |
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Dec 11, 2017 17:19
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I could barely follow that conversation because it was too smart for me but I think Ozma just wants the streets to run red with Dark Knight blood and she's done with trying to 'play nice' with her words as she cuts them to death with her sword/ axe/ knife/ whatever.
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Dec 11, 2017 19:28
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mauman posted:Also, in case you're wondering Gilbald is a beastmaster who looks like all beastmasters do (BIG BURLY MEN WITH BEARDS AND WHIPS), who is also heavily implied to be romantically involved with Iuria. Birdmen in general are older than they look; it's mentioned in Canopus' Warren Report, making this an example of that skeevy "actually they're a 1000 year old demon" thing. ...or so I would say, but I checked and Iuria is apparently 30 years younger than Cano at 18. All they had to do was make her in the 40s and call it a day, they had a ready-made excuse! Shitenshi posted:I can see why Canopus is so rough, to try and get Andoras to see the reality of his situation, but Ozma as some noblewoman talking down to this guy who lost everything, is too painful. She was being blatantly sarcastic and didn't expect him to react like that. That's why she basically goes "Oh wait a minute I see what's happening here, you have been screwing with us!" Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 00:36
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Tallgeese posted:She was being blatantly sarcastic and didn't expect him to react like that. That's why she basically goes "Oh wait a minute I see what's happening here, you have been screwing with us!" Yeah, she's also dealing with the whole "I'm a traitor, I'm going to get scorn thing now so gently caress them" so I don't expect kind words between ANY Dark Knight and Ozma Not even herself  .Also, she's pretty much aware that Andoras is a bit of a hypocrite. waah posted:So the thing about Andoras is that he's awesome, but there was a subtle but significant change to his sprite. You see, Andoras in the original TO was darker. A lot darker. I'm honestly not sure what the problem is here, as it's just an allusion to things that happened in real life (some pretty hosed up poo poo was done in Africa). What better way to establish an evil empire than them being the slaving assholes? It's better than Valkyrie Chronicles at least, where they attempted to turn the Jewish allegory of Fictional WW2 into a people who looked suspiciously Japanese 
mauman fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 00:42
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Tallgeese posted:She was being blatantly sarcastic and didn't expect him to react like that. That's why she basically goes "Oh wait a minute I see what's happening here, you have been screwing with us!" Not seeing the sarcasm thing though? I see it more as she's rebuking him for resigning himself to his fate and is enamored with the idea of helping his people, all the while they're in chains and helping to deliver more nations to that same rotten fate in war, instead of actually doing the far more soul crushing task of turning on Lodis. The only sarcasm I saw was when he downplayed his situation compared to Gilbert and said he loved Lodis to Canopus, which seems like him admitting his internalized self-loathing for feeling powerless to do anything else than serve them. mauman posted:Yeah, she's also dealing with the whole "I'm a traitor, I'm going to get scorn thing now so gently caress them" so I don't expect kind words between ANY Dark Knight and Ozma I could understand that if this was any other Dark Knight, but Andoras is being held against his will. Sure he's become comfy with his situation to an extent (if you count being rightfully afraid of the repercussions of taking on a giant empire as comfy) but when the other solution is racial genocide, then there's not much else you can do. She should try and get the guy to actively revolt and join them, not poo poo on him some more, especially when she was pretty comfy with their mission up until it became personal. Isn't it also true that if you scan some of the generic Dark Knights' stats, some of their races are listed as Bolmoccan? Why else do you think he joined with Barbas and Martym at the first opportunity?
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Dec 12, 2017 02:08
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Shitenshi posted:
Considering the first thing she asks is essentially "want to join us?", and he says "nah, I'm cool being a slave and wallowing in self-pity", probably drives some of her vitriol. Also, what Tallgeese said. And yes, I'm aware of the spoiler probably making it so he's just playing when he says he's "cool" with his situation (not that she knows that). Also, Ozma just switched sides at this point, so maybe she's just getting the "hero" part down at this point. Case in point - she has interesting words for herself and Oz in the time travel post-game shenanigans. mauman fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 02:42
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mauman posted:Considering the first thing she asks is essentially "want to join us?", and he says "nah, I'm cool being a slave and wallowing in self-pity", probably drives some of her vitriol. Also, what Tallgeese said. I think you're overthinking this. I was under the impression there were no interactions between characters via post game time travel shenanigans.
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Dec 12, 2017 02:53
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tithin posted:
Hohohohoooooo.... You're in for a treat Also, I forgot to mention this earlier, but you need to give Ozma a quick trip to Ninja to pick up double attack (thank goodness you get a few free classmarks). Also - her marks can be found at the bridge level you just beat, during rainy fights from undead templars. You have to use steal (yuck) but base steal will work. mauman fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 02:53
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mauman posted:Hohohohoooooo.... Are we talking coda or alternate routes?
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Dec 12, 2017 02:56
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tithin posted:Are we talking coda or alternate routes? coda Sorry for the confusion - that's what I mean usually when I talk about post-game.
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Dec 12, 2017 02:58
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mauman posted:Considering the first thing she asks is essentially "want to join us?", and he says "nah, I'm cool being a slave and wallowing in self-pity", probably drives some of her vitriol. Also, what Tallgeese said. I feel like that initial exchange is more her being aware of his lousy situation and mocking him for his powerlessness as opposed to trying to win the guy over. He outright says at the beginning that he has no choice, and I took that to reference the consequences if he doesn't do what he's told. I don't think that failing to take initiative when the alternative is deadly for others than yourself is necessarily a character flaw. He's not a corrupt bureaucrat or a depraved sadist like the other Dark Knights, he's a guy who has everything to lose if he doesn't obey orders. It'd be like criticizing CJ for doing Tenpenny and Toreno's dirty work in GTA San Andreas when the reality is a lot more complicated than that. She's fighting for herself after she found out even her own family had been lying to her about the death of someone important to her and the Lodis power brokers are all corrupt to the core. That's a far less harrowing situation when the answer is obviously to get the hell out of dodge. Granted, there's gonna be bad blood between them. She was a noblewoman who once oppressed him, so of course he'll snark off about how her leaving the Dark Knights is just her trying out a new phase as opposed to anything with actual stakes so she'll respond in kind. Still, wouldn't mind her trying to connect with him about how his cause is pointless when the Dark Knights are full of poo poo and then him continually refusing to revolt out of despair and frustration at what might actually happen if he does that to show just how powerless he is or at least make her seem like she has a point. Shitenshi fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 03:22
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mauman posted:
You don't get why it's less than ideal that the one black person in the entire game is a former slave from an enslaved nation?  Edit: Imma let this one go y'all. My fault for the tangent And yes, sometimes you get some good dialogue from characters that would normally never talk to each other once you get WORLD. Notable example is the neutral exclusive characters and the Palace of the Dead. waah fucked around with this message at 04:29 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 03:48
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waah posted:You don't get why it's less than ideal that the one black person in the entire game is a former slave from an enslaved nation? Versus if he was a slave from any other nation? Also, you're glossing over my point that the evil colonial power allegory is lording over the african allegory - like real life? I fail to see a problem in using real life allegories from real life history for fictional purposes. It's stated in the game that it's bad. You're supposed to agree that it's bad. And for the record, I whole heartedly agree that it's bad. Also, you're getting dangerously close to implying something bad. Like really bad. Please don't do this. I believe that we can keep this civil edit - only 1 black character argument - I'd like to point out that it would be strange for a load of such characters to be around on an island nation that's in the middle of a civil war in medieval times where they lack decent transportation options, unless they had a drat good reason to be there. No speed boats or planes for you sir. And the game establishes that the waters around said nation are pirate infested as gently caress, so they wouldn't be here for merchant caravans either. mauman fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Dec 12, 2017 |
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Dec 12, 2017 03:55
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Don't make me kick out another update tonight I've done like six in a week
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Dec 12, 2017 05:50
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We do actually see these guys in Ogre Battle 64 where they are enslaved and forced to fight us - Lodis are dicks and cannot be trusted.
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Dec 12, 2017 06:51
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TheGreatEvilKing posted:We do actually see these guys in Ogre Battle 64 where they are enslaved and forced to fight us - Lodis are dicks and cannot be trusted. Yup. Andoras was the intro for that plot line to be explored. You could even get an expy of Andoras (claw wielding fighter) to join up with you.
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Dec 12, 2017 07:02
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Well, I mean, it's not like Levi isn't just following the most powerful person as though it were the natural order of things. It's just that, by his reckoning, he is the most powerful person.
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Dec 12, 2017 09:11
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Episode 57 - Barbas at Barnicia We won't be meeting Catiua today because there's two fights before her and I thought there was only two total.  The Gates of Barnicia  This fight's such a speedbump that we're fighting literally generic Dark Knights.      Honk, Honk   -----------//----------- Barnicia Courtyard  This fight has a decent amount of contextual story to it depending on who you bring. I have everyone relevant, so they're all here, neccesitating a roster reshuffle. For reference, there's lines for Canopus, Mirdyn and Gildas as a trio, Vyce, and Ozma. Enemy Composition Red Barbas (Knight Commander) Templar x12 Easy as piss, even Barbas can't really stand before us at this stage. -----------//-----------   : I did not expect them to find us here. : Someone whispers to the Almoricans?: Who, the regent? That fond of us, is he?: It matters not. This provides the perfect opportunity to avenge Oz and Ozma.: Do not be so eager to die, Barbas. They're not the rabble they once were. : I call you foolish if you think you face children down there.: But face them we must! It's only a question of whether we end this here, or in Heim.  : We have not yet lost, and you would leave without a fight!?: I fear that even were we to place Catiua upon the throne, it would not bring an end to the unrest.: Precisely why we must crush them here and now!: Surely you haven't forgotten our true goal, Barbas! The rule of Valeria is but one step along our path. : If we retreat now, our losses would be trivial. The high priest has commanded as much!: The high priest? I'd as soon have his head on a pike as hear what that imbecile has to say.Barbas isn't in it for the land, title, money or anything concrete. He's in it for slaughter. : Enough, Barbas! Or it may be your head upon the pike.: Bah. Speak the truth, Lanselot! You don't want to lose favor with the Senate. : What of the miracle we seek? Was that not the very reason we stole the Xenobian blade?: Speaking of which, I received word from Balxephon.: Again? What would he have us do now? Wrest the firmament from its perch?        He just loving jumped off a castle   : A fool? Your friends did not call me so as they died.: And brazen besides! Allow me to show you something. : This marvelous weapon is called a "fusil," and it's far more powerful than any sorcery!see - flintlock pistol   Love the look his compatriots give him here : You! Get him out of here. : As I was saying, contraptions are well and good, but a true knight fights with a sword! : Excepting those who fight with hammers...such as myself! He laughs at his own wit here  -----------//-----------   : Of all our knights commander, I always considered you least worthy of the title.: Do you think to rout me with those cheap parlor tricks of yours, Ozma?: Brute force, is that all you understand? Perhaps it's time I versed you in the higher arts. : I wonder what Oz would think were he to see you now. His beloved sister, a traitor....: No, a flighty wench, run off to another man!: My brother's memory is no fodder for your japes!: I'm surprised. I was convinced you'd forgotten all about your brother. : After all, you seem to have fallen in quite readily with his murderers.   -----------//-----------  How about some fighting! Oh.. is that all you have.. well, ok then, guess I'll just speedbump all over this map too then.        Honestly the greatest irritation about this map is that you have the low ground so need to go around the map while they can come straight at you.     I gave Barbas poo poo, he's actually built pretty solidly all things considered, he's just slow as poo poo and only capable of putting out one good hit every so often.    I got this at the end of the last map but didn't capture it in SS quick enough because it popped up as the map ended. Arycelle hit rank 4 in bows, and brings with it Slumber shot. It functions the same way Dark Weight does, but a) hits a lot harder, and b) has a chance to put the enemy to sleep. V handy.  Ladies and Gentlemen of the court, Exhibit A.   Our lowbies aren't capable of being smashed due to their low levels, they've absorbed enough passive XP to survive this much.  The rest of the events don't kick in until we do some damage to old mate, so all the events should trigger now as the relevant people have their turns -----------//-----------  : What have you done with Lanselot? What have you done with my brother!? : The high champion's your brother now, is he?: Quiet, you!  -----------//-----------    : It's him - I'd know him anywhere!: Something you want to say to me, boy?: Denam! He's the dog who led the attack on Golyat!    Seems like this fight will bring grim satisfaction to a great many people. -----------//-----------     : Xenobian! Why aren't you dead yet?: Because your jester of a brother is a terrible swordsman. Where is your facile friend today?: Martym...? You speak of Martym! : So you're the knight who begged for your life at the point of his sword!: Do you repeat every lie you're told in this fashion? : By my honor, if you know what that is, 'twas your fool of a friend who cried mercy.: A fine tale. May it keep you company in your grave!-----------//-----------  Aw hell    : Rhime? Ah, yes. : You failed to defend her, as I recall, knight. : How are you with your other ladies? You must disappoint them as well. : I'd be more worried about my own fortunes in love, were I you.  -----------//----------- That's that    Levi, mate, honestly. When has that Ever worked?  
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Dec 12, 2017 10:12
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For a filler battle it had some pretty good barbs in it.
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Dec 12, 2017 11:19
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