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I wonder if the other races would've been more polite if you'd also had a large fleet, or whether that would've just further encouraged them to team up against you.
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Oct 6, 2017 08:43
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Congrats! Wins are wins! I also like the theory that everyone else wanted to piss on the Psilons more than they hated/feared you. Who's next?
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Oct 6, 2017 10:40
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First off, hey, good job!  I agree with Coolguye, when you start getting that many planets and survive the attempts to knock you down a peg, that's pretty much unstoppable unless another AI becomes a superpower too by absorbing some of the small fry, and nobody really looked in position to do that. That was a good play on the Mrrshan, too; I never bother getting out of a war diplomatically because it's a good time to get guilt-free territory (and techs sometimes!) and once you start winning they want peace anyway, but you wouldn't have gotten the win that early without cat votes.Going back a bit (I moved recently, so I haven't checked the thread): Thotimx posted:Nope. I'd really like to see the Meklars show up for once before we, you know, actually play as them(didn't think that'd be a problem, but the way it's going ... ). All I can say is, "Be careful what you wish for."  Guess who the runaways were in that Sili game I mentioned earlier: Mustering on our border at turn 200 (I survived the war and won the vote in 2525), and some of those designs are actually pretty good, unlike the nuclear bomb/death spore barges the AI likes to do sometimes. Of course, the reason they got so tough is what we were talking about earlier, how it all comes back to the map sometimes:  Lots of good stuff, but almost all of it was in their corner! PurpleXVI posted:I wonder if the other races would've been more polite if you'd also had a large fleet, or whether that would've just further encouraged them to team up against you. As far as I know, fleet strength is only calculated for trying to make or break an alliance (and even then it might only be during an active war, I don't recall). Declaring war or not, backing down to threats or not, and so on all go off your current relations modifier, which is why diplomacy revolving around being generous yet opportunistic is so effective.
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Oct 6, 2017 16:38
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Nicely done!
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Oct 6, 2017 18:25
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I really like how in many games, building up an army (finally) and getting a respectable economy going and fortifying stuff and all of that "for nothing" because you just WIN might ring hollow, but here it really isn't the case, is it? It seems to me at least that by smartly investing in research, a fleet, many planets etc., you set the foundation for key bribes, trade deals and plain threats, so the victory was not just "huh guess they all hate the other guy so I win by default", but instead the result of everything you did before. Well earned, and satisfying. Good job, and also in presenting it!
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Oct 6, 2017 21:43
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AngryDiplomat posted:I like to think that everyone else in the galaxy finally got so fed up with the Psilons' smug bullshit that they all privately agreed to elect that milquetoast sentient oil slick Granid, just to piss on the Psilons' parade. I definitely approve. CommissarMega posted:Congratulations, Thotmix! Out of curiosity, how do you think you'd have fared if war broke out? Depends on timing. I would have been in trouble just a couple decades before the game ended. I was starting to be on my feet by then though -- holding off the Psilons could have been hard because of their tech. In the long-term though I think I would have been able to outproduce them, esp. once the rich planets on the left starting getting going more . I thought I would eventually be able to win with numbers, just didn't have to in this case. Wayne posted:it all comes back to the map sometimes: Yep -- sounds like you had an interesting struggle there. Simply Simon posted:It seems to me at least that by smartly investing in research, a fleet, many planets etc., you set the foundation for key bribes, trade deals and plain threats, so the victory was not just "huh guess they all hate the other guy so I win by default", but instead the result of everything you did before In part -- sometimes you just get lucky too, but absolutely right that the foundation you describe is key to putting yourself in a position to take advantage. Aesclepia posted:Who's next? Hopefully tomorrow I'll put that up -- along with another vote. The next race to play is firmly decided, but after that it could go multiple directions. Thanks all for your support!
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Oct 7, 2017 00:59
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Simply Simon posted:It seems to me at least that by smartly investing in research, a fleet, many planets etc., you set the foundation for key bribes, trade deals and plain threats, so the victory was not just "huh guess they all hate the other guy so I win by default", but instead the result of everything you did before. Well earned, and satisfying. Well, you absolutely can "cheese" the Council and win when your only qualification is "2nd most populous empire." A lot of people argue that that actually makes Humans the strongest race in MOO1 (instead of 3rd or 4th), since they're the easiest to win with if that's all you care about. Everybody already likes you, and elections are always on the turn multiples of 25, so you can reliably bribe people the night before and win easily. This game is different because Thot had built up a lot, took risks, and showed off basically every aspect of MOO1's diplomacy. And for anyone who hasn't played MOO1, the reason why we start to think the player's starting to win once he's "caught up" is that the AI is strongest in the early game, when their reduced costs and free colony ships can get them off to a huge start if unchecked. Once you get enough more planets than them to overcome the effective economic gap, you've got the game in the bag because we can think and they can't. Silicoids are an interesting variant, in that it's not enough to claim stars; you have to hold them long enough to slowly grow your population, and expanding so much drops your relations with other AIs, making war more likely. Yet the longer the game goes on, the less useful your racial bonuses are. Looking forward to the next one!
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Oct 7, 2017 02:58
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So, what in gneeral would folks say is the 'hardest' race to win with on the original Master of Orion? Presuming one isn't saying specific map size going into the equation, but what in general would they say is for them the roughest?
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Oct 7, 2017 10:33
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As a big fan of MOO1 I'm loving this LP. Have you considered upping the difficulty? Or have I missed you are playing on Hardest? I know in civ1 it's possible to mod the difficulty up beyond what the game gives you. I wonder if that's true here too. Also, fantasy: to somehow have a 'realtimeish' multiplayer version of this classic. I think it'd be pretty nifty.
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Oct 7, 2017 13:19
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Mrshaan, alkari, and darloks are the bottom tier races.
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Oct 7, 2017 14:52
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According to the OP, it's already the highest difficulty level, so the only way it will get harder involves playing the garbage-tier empires.
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Oct 7, 2017 20:25
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I like the Alkari.  Weirdo space birbs.
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Oct 7, 2017 20:27
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I've got a soft spot for the Darloks myself, but the balance problems are real.
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Oct 7, 2017 20:30
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I'm not judging, my favorite race is probably the mrshann, I'm a crazy cat lady after all, lol. But they are difficult to play with.
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Oct 7, 2017 20:35
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wedgekree posted:So, what in gneeral would folks say is the 'hardest' race to win with on the original Master of Orion? See, this is the cool thing about SALP. Anywhere else and that would've sparked insults and tier lists.  Conventional wisdom is Klackons and Psilons are the best (some people add Humans or put them in "upper mid-tier"), and Thalantos posted:Mrshaan, alkari, and darloks are the bottom tier races. That, though I usually see Bulrathi instead of Alkari bringing up the rear. And I do think da Bears are da worst, they're the only race bad at Computers, which is probably the most important field (it governs hitting in combat, spying (both offense and security), industry (via Robotic Controls), and defense with ECM, though that's comparatively minor). It's pretty telling that the Silicoids were considered balanced by being bad at everything except Computers! The wrinkle is that the Bulrathi have a bonus that can't be matched, so if you can make it to the lategame, you can theoretically beat everyone else in invasions easily. But that's the catch. I dig the Alkari too, but they are hampered by the fact that accuracy bottoms at 5% (it's asymptotic to 1% in MOO2 with far fewer attacks) and you can have thousands of ships in a stack, and that if you focus on stacks of tiny ships, there are Specials that hard counter you. Propulsion is a good field, but I do rank them third worst (Mrrshan have some nasty tricks in any given phase of the game, as long as the tech tree cooperates; but they're limited too and have the worst diplomatic rivals so it's harder for them to win votes).
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Oct 7, 2017 23:14
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Lampsacus posted:Have you considered upping the difficulty? Or have I missed you are playing on Hardest? I know in civ1 it's possible to mod the difficulty up beyond what the game gives you. I wonder if that's true here too. Difficulties are Simple/Easy/Medium/Hard/Impossible. Everything here has been on Impossible. IIRC there was a way to mod it -- an unofficial patch, which I'm not using, was eventually made. I think you could change the production and tech modifiers if you really wanted to(I don't). I think it's hard enough :P and most things were not available to be changed. wedgekree posted:what in gneeral would folks say is the 'hardest' race to win with on the original Master of Orion? Based on two 'semi-official' guides by people better at the game than me, I would say pretty much what the others have said. The ranking pretty much goes: 1A. Psilons 1B. Klackons 3. Humans Gap 4. Silicoid 5. Meklar 6. Sakkra 7. Alkari Gap 8. Bulrathi 9. Darlok/Mrrshan(depends on who you ask) That's what 'they' said. I would slightly disagree a bit(I've said I put the Silicoids and Humans as about even but I'm rethinking that -- I'd have to agree now with the points made that Humans are better). Meklar/Sakkra fairly even IMO and definitely ahead of the birds. Last three you could honestly do in any order and there are some who think the Darloks are average or even slightly better. It's not an accident that the last four on the list are who they are; the key is that they have zero economic plusses. Competing in early expansion in order to leverage size against the AI bonuses is much harder for them; usually you're better off by not fighting early and the military races basically have to fight early or they'll get run over.
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Oct 7, 2017 23:43
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Humans will be up next. I have a few thoughts about that, but first up, a choice for who to do after this. Meklars, who we haven't seen yet, or Sakkra are the choices. The cybernetics are the best at factories, operating two extra per population; that means twice as many factories at the start. The lizards breed like crazy, with twice the normal population growth. This helps them expand more quickly, but they don't have any actual bonus to peak production. Generally the Meklar are a little better, but only a little. I'd put these two in roughly the same category. If anyone has any strong opinion on who they'd like to see first, speak up. Human Preview ** Economics -- Neutral as neutral can be. Standard, normal, nothing special to see here. Except that ... ** Diplomacy -- The best there is. +25% trade income bonus, initial relations are Relaxed with everyone, making it easier to maintain peace and form agreements. Additionally, we get a bonus to all diplomatic actions(trade, tribute, treaties will have a greater positive effect on existing relations). Twice the effect, IIRC. ** Research -- Better than they are often given credit for. Humanity is the galaxy's experts on Force Fields, and are also good at Planetology and Propulsion. There are no research weaknesses, average in the other three fields. Summary Unlike the Klackons and Silicoids, we do not expect to get off to a particularly fast start. To the extent that we are able, we will endeavor to meet and befriend as many races as possible, extracting more from them than they can from us. If things go well, a diplomatic win should be relatively easy to achieve. Emphasis on relatively. A Large galaxy is up next; medium would be more advantageous as we'd be encountering others sooner, but them's the breaks. Johann III flies a Yellow flag over Sol ... Strategic Sage fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Oct 8, 2017 |
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Oct 7, 2017 23:57
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I'm gonna vote Sakkra next, because I'm curious how long the game will keep the Meklar hidden from us if we let it.
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Oct 8, 2017 00:18
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Sakkra next
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Oct 8, 2017 00:36
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Let's be meklar next.
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Oct 8, 2017 00:41
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I'd like to see the Meklar, please!
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Oct 8, 2017 01:44
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Be the Meklar next if and only if they deign to show themselves in the Human run. Show yourselves, robots. Don't make us come over there.
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Oct 8, 2017 02:57
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ManxomeBromide posted:Be the Meklar next if and only if they deign to show themselves in the Human run. This sounds good. The Meklar are great, but it would be nice to fight them first.
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Oct 8, 2017 03:00
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Let's be meklar next. Meklar Combine representative ATK-421 agrees with proposal; efficiency and extermination of non-robotic life is essential. Beep boop.
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Oct 8, 2017 03:01
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Meklar. I fully anticipate, by the way, that the Meklar will be prominent in every game after the one you play them in.
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Oct 8, 2017 03:23
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Meklar if they show up as a rival next game, Sakkra otherwise.
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Oct 8, 2017 04:35
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Thotimx posted:Johann III flies a Yellow flag over Sol ... Meklar
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Oct 8, 2017 09:34
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GeneralRevil posted:Darn, you didn't name him Ender. Oops, I forgot. Guess I'll have to keep up my alternating tradition and lose on purpose(jk) so I can do that on the winning run. In true MOO1 fashion, the Sakkra get off to the fast start but are overwhelmed by the Meklar's production(of votes). Barring a reversal, the path seems clear for a while now. There will be another vote down the road once we get these done.
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Oct 8, 2017 15:56
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I'll go Sakkra unless we see the Meklar next turn. but the conditionals are probably pretty boring to go through for the OP so you can just chalk it up as an S i forget if i've unlurked to be nice at any point so i'll do it now; thanks for the good lp, i like how this whole lp has a consistent approach and fleshes out the strategy behind the game across a number of play-throughs. it's good
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Oct 8, 2017 20:35
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oystertoadfish posted:i forget if i've unlurked to be nice at any point so i'll do it now; thanks for the good lp, i like how this whole lp has a consistent approach and fleshes out the strategy behind the game across a number of play-throughs. it's good I will second this as well; I really like it that you're showing off multiple races and explaining in a decent amount of detail what the different strategies and pit-falls are, Thotimx! This is a great LP to follow and I hope you get to show off even the scrub tier races without The LP Curse striking  
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Oct 8, 2017 23:59
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Rappaport posted:I will second this as well; I really like it that you're showing off multiple races and explaining in a decent amount of detail what the different strategies and pit-falls are, Thotimx! This is a great LP to follow and I hope you get to show off even the scrub tier races without The LP Curse striking Thirding; this is one top-notch LP. I played this game (at least) several hundred times but I learn something new from almost every update. I think we should get Thotmix an avatar. I'm not much of a graphics person, but if someone can whip something up, I'd be happy to pay for it.
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Oct 9, 2017 00:18
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Rappaport posted:I will second this as well; I really like it that you're showing off multiple races and explaining in a decent amount of detail what the different strategies and pit-falls are, Thotimx! This is a great LP to follow and I hope you get to show off even the scrub tier races without The LP Curse striking I shall endeavor to persevere. Thanks to you and oystertoadfish in particular for your encouragement, it's always good to know one's work is appreciated. And now, for a game that will go down in the annals of this LP as one to be remembered, for reasons that will soon become clear ... Episode VI: Human Opening  This I like! Finally the Meklars show up ... and no Psilons or Klackons! Especially the first of those two. Expansive Silicoids and mass-producing machines are likely to be the top foes, while all three military-based races are here so there could be some early confrontations. Looks like we've got the lower-left, and should be able to expand at least some to the right. The top of the galaxy is quite empty, and I'd expect somebody to take advantadge of that. Probably the rocks will.  Well let's get started. I need to adjust to playing a standard race economically again. Allowing a bit of waste at first is ok since we're below the halfway point on population. Not too much though, so it doesn't restrict growth. All four systems surrounding us are exactly 3 parsecs away. We'll send the colony ship to the green one, best odds and pushing into the the middle to encounter others. Scouts go to the red one above and left, and the blue below and right, in order to provide alternative destinations if need be. This happened when we arrived at our first destinations:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugRmewa4ctI ROFL. Seriously. A great pick of enemies, solid starting location, lots of planets to choose from -- and I send the colony ship straight to the Guardian. Two rich planets elsewhere ... but we couldn't have landed on them anyway. What a crock. This is the point where most players would start over. I think you know what I'm going to do though. That's right, we soldier on, we fight for all we've got. Not looking good for the home team though. Six Recons will be needed to scout all remaining systems within range. That'll take about a year and a half, and then we start building up industry so we can have a colony ship. Argh.  Can't reach it yet, but decent.  Doesn't nearly make up for our horrible start, but it helps. A pretty good fertile system, and this is our only choice for first colony.  Lots of rich systems, but all hostile so far.  Absolutely incredible. A Silicoid's dream. Playing the wrong race here obviously.  Very nice. And out of range.  Drek. A decade in and nothing to do now but build up and get a new ship out there. It's begun in 2322, and before it's done we are reminded that we suck.  Absolutely nothing of surprise here. Only the slow-growing rocks are behind us, Meklar in the lead. In 2328, the Colonizer is done and our first tech pull comes in. That's necessary because of another bit of bad luck; Berel is on the edge of the galaxy and won't give us the range to reach anything good. We need to research to go anywhere else at all. ** Computers: Battle Computer Mk. II is it. ** Construction: Industrial Tech 9 or Reduced Waste 80%. The second one is much more expensive ... and much more important, so we'll go that route. ** Force Fields: Class II Deflectors as always. ** Planetology: Bunch of stuff. +10M Terraforming, Controlled Barren, Improved Eco Restoration. I want it all but Terraforming's the cheapest so we'll start there. ** Propulsion: Deuterium Fuel Cells(Range 5). Naturally the longer and more expensive option. ** Weapons: Hand Lasers only. Ok then. That Deuterium is option is actually exactly what we want. Both of our scouted standard worlds are exactly 5 parsecs away; if we drew range 4 Hydrogen things would actually be much worse for us. So it's all-in on that research right now. Definitely up Dung's Creek, and without a paddle here. Hopefully I can at least make this interesting. Who knows what can happen, but it was my turn to lose a game. The galaxy is largely conspiring to make sure that happens, it seems.
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Oct 9, 2017 00:21
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Ouch that's a rough start. Well, uh, at least if you need to crack open the Guardian for a last-ditch shot at some game-saving tech, you know where he is...? Also, to echo the others, I largely played MoO2 rather than MoO1, and you're showing me that the original had a lot of depth that I didn't even remember, or more likely, never actually uncovered since I was a dumb kid when I played it.
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Oct 9, 2017 00:43
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berryjon posted:Not always. I've had a start where the only colonizable planet in range was frikken Orion itself. That one stands out in my mind, though I know it is a massive exception. First page comment! Though you're a far better player than I, and I think you can pull this off. At least this means that when you're ready, taking Orion won't mean moving your fleet away from your empire.
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Oct 9, 2017 00:46
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Oh man, that is a rough blow. At least you know where it is now! For some reason I thought colony ships could beat a retreat. Maybe I'm misremembering some mechanic in the sequel.
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Oct 9, 2017 01:29
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POOL IS CLOSED posted:Oh man, that is a rough blow. At least you know where it is now! They usually do before the enemy is in range, but the Guardian moves so fast and shoots so far that your first encounter with it is guaranteed to be a wipeout.
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Oct 9, 2017 01:51
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I think the game realized that you forgot to name the emperor Ender and penalized you for it. But that is seriously an amazing starting location for the Silicoids.
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Oct 9, 2017 03:48
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Skrewtape posted:I think we should get Thotmix an avatar. I'm not much of a graphics person, but if someone can whip something up, I'd be happy to pay for it. Especially given what Rich just changed them to. Something like this? So far the only look at a Meklar in the LP.  MOO1 doesn't have very many animations (in particular, the scientist and soldier only have a few frames animating on their gear), but if you can think of any you want, Thot, I can probably get it and put it here and Skrewtape can finalize it for you. Probably want to let him know what text you want, too.
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Oct 9, 2017 22:10
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berryjon posted:First page comment! Yeah I thought about you pointing that out when it happened. Had kind of a sad chuckle about it. As far as you still having faith in this effort ... let's just say that makes one of us. GeneralRevil posted:I think the game realized that you forgot to name the emperor Ender and penalized you for it. Clearly the only sane explanation. Wayne posted:MOO1 doesn't have very many animations (in particular, the scientist and soldier only have a few frames animating on their gear), but if you can think of any you want, Thot, I can probably get it and put it here and Skrewtape can finalize it for you. Probably want to let him know what text you want, too. I'll need to think about this, thanks. I honestly can't come up with anything that sounds better than a MOO animation(and I'm quite humbled by the offer also, thanks!).
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Oct 11, 2017 04:30
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Episode VI: 2329-2349 2331. Only a quarter-century or so late ... As painful as it is in terms of slowdown, I've got to send a bunch of colonists over there. 22M.  This bearded human scientist has something useful now. One Colonizer on it's way to Exis(the Arid one that should extend our range the most), and we move on to Irridium Fuel Cells. A second ship will begin soon, but first another swath of Recons are needed. Berel ships a bit of population back to the capital to get it maxed out again a little quicker; it's main job will be colonist incubation for a while now.  At least we've seen no rivals yet, though I imagine that'll change soon.  Whaddya know, a Meklar. We hear tell they are Xenophobic Industrialists, an appropriate philosophy for such creatures.  Typically they do start slow, so at least we are even in territory at this point -- but if they claim a bunch of that upper-left quadrant, their industrial base will prove quite annoying. 50BC in trade to start things off. Normally that would start at -15 BC, but it'll cost us just 2.  A couple of years later, and our ring of Recons starts arriving at their destinations. Not everyone is pleased. Here, a destroyer chases us away.  Second barren planet we've found. Getting that quickly could be profitable ...  Outstanding.   Finally, another standard world.  And another. Not great ones, but we'll take what we can get.  Hostility everywhere. Off to the right we are running into a Mrrshan wall in multiple locations.  Big one to get obviously, literally and figuratively.  2349 here. Just settled Keeta so that gives us four, while the Meklar have not expanded further. The 'O' in the lower-middle is Rha, we have a colony ship several years out to there. After that I'm not sure that we have any other options. Morrig in the lower left is too far away. There are three barren systems out there though. One is decent sized, one is rich, the other one sucks but gets us to Morrig. It seems time to rush Barren landings; we've already got Terraforming queued up so I'll need to get that first. An early pause in colony-ship building is not what I'd like, but it seems to be what the situation calls for.  We spot a Silicoid scout in the nebula a bit above and to the right of this, but this galaxy seriously isn't playing around with the mineral wealth.  Took several years of trying to scout this, with both Bulrathi and Mrrshan ships in the area. Doesn't seem like it was worth it. Strategic Sage fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Oct 11, 2017 |
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Oct 11, 2017 04:40
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