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They dislike putting generic units as 'Heroes', so they'll make something up if they want to bring someone in. Morales & Hammer were created for Heroes of the Storm just to put a face and personality on the concept.
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Dec 21, 2017 22:00
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I think they don't want to drown everything in Warcraft and Overwatch characters, so they're throwing in occasional Diablo/Starcraft characters just to break up the flow. It's been a half-year since Malthael(almost a half year since Stukov.) Maybe someone on the heroes staff has mild OCD and doesn't like that one D3 Act Final Boss isn't playable? We got Butcher, Azmo, Diablo, and Malthael now, sooo... He'll be gimmicky as gently caress. They seem to have a thing for 'character fantasy' and I doubt someone with the title 'Lord of Lies' is going to have a standard kit. They're running out of Diablo characters too, really. They can prob make a hero out of Deckard Cain, and I guess they can make more class ports like Xul and Cassia. Even then, how do you make a Paladin different from say, Johanna, Uther, or any other Warcraft Paladin? My longshot character is the Scoundrel follower Lyndon. I sort of want to see what the Heroes team would do with another sarcastic jerk character ala Alarak. He's less significant than Belial though, and gameplay wise he'd be yet another archer type to add to the cast.
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Jan 3, 2018 22:51
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I'm assuming Broll would be more of a bear druid type. There's honestly enough Druid spells and abilities to make a few characters still. Malfurion is sort of a weird Balance/Resto hybrid. There'd be more room for an out and out Mage/Balance character, but Moonfire is pretty much the most iconic Balance spell. I would actually say a lot of WoW classes still have plenty of water to tap from the well. Warrior, Hunter, Rogue, Demon Hunter, Mage, and Warlock are all represented fairly well, but everything else? Death Knight: Arthas. There's probably room for a more standard Blood-style Death Knight, but even Arthas does the unkillable rear end in a top hat thing okay Paladin: Uther, Johanna. I think there's room for a Ret-inspired Paladin character(Tirion maybe?) Shaman: Thrall, Rehgar. An elemental shaman-style mage could be interesting.. Druid: Malfurion. If they can work around Moonfire, there's definitely room for a Balance style Mage IMO. I think Broll as a tank-style Graymane could be interesting(I don't know how this would be balanced worth a drat, since Greymane's two forms are I do damage/I do damage.) Monk: Chen, Lili. There's enough material probably to make a Windwalker character(maybe with a trait like Li-Ming's Tal Rasha talent but turned up), but I couldn't give you a monk they care about to slot in here. Ironically unlike most Diablo heroes, I don't think Kharazhim blends together with the WoW Monk thematically and is pretty separate. Mage: 2 frost mages, 1 fire mage, Li-Ming and Medivh both sort of take ways you could possibly take Arcane. This well is dry IMO. Priest: We don't actually have a straight up priest character. Tyrande is more of a hunter. Uther sort of took Spirit of Redemption(did Paladins have this in WC3?). Malfurion sort of took the Atonement style with his rework(Apply buff to ally, nuke to heal) With Malfurion's rework, I actually think there's a void in Supports now as a ranged caster type who doesn't need to be aggressive - a holy priest type would take that. A shadow priest would probably be a lot of fun to design and play. Character wise we have Anduin(what excitement) for holy, and for Shadow? I got nothing.
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Mar 5, 2018 04:31
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kater posted:I feel like any Starcraft thing they do is tame. They have Abathur and Proby, they can get away with anything. Medan gives you a random set of abilities from another hero every game, except they heal/deal 1 more damage, because you're such a mary sue that you can do everything because you are the best. You are a better shaman than Thrall, are a better sack of HP than Stitches, and better at heal-lasering things than Morales. That you can't do all of this at the same time is just you being sporting. 
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Mar 20, 2018 00:07
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Shadowlyger posted:Important: Were you playing with other people, or with AI? I lost an all-AI game once as Hanzo. Because my teammates started running in circles around each other Like, they literally just started playing ring around the rosey above the enemy team's destroyed upper fort. 1v5ing the AI even on easy isn't easy and I'm still not good at geometry. Only other AI games I've lost have been with human teammates ironically. ^^Tassadar is also an option for that, although he's not everyone's cup of tea.
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Mar 23, 2018 08:39
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Fend seems to work better as a gap closer than anything else. Definitely not really a damage button. Valkyrie vs. Ball Lightning: It's a case to case basis. Valkyrie is good at catching people fleeing, and can be used as an engage tool if you aim it well. It's harder to use which should be considered if their all playing slippery fuckers. Ball Lightning is much easier to use, but it truly excels in any map that forces everyone together in a team fight. Cursed Hollow and Braxis are especially the best at this, but most maps get people somewhat close together. It's the better raw damage tool, and it can get kinda hilarious with Infinite Lightning. Most people aren't trained to spread out for Cassia like they may be for Kael or Maiev, so you tend to get a little more mileage out of it.
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Apr 3, 2018 06:45
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Fenix's trait is more of a Muradin trait in shield form. Raynor's heal is more of just something that might happen if you get poked too much because it isn't going to stop you from get bursted down. I honestly think a good design place for Raynor if they want to keep him super newb-friendly is embrace that he's a slow guy in power armor. Make him a hell of a lot more tanky than he is - Higher base HP, maybe some armor talents, things that make Inspire give some defense. Make the heal activate-able by default(but it still goes off automatically if not used). Maybe make Seasoned Marksman base line - if he's how you teach new players, give them incentive to do more than just go into a clusterfuck in mid. Give him bonus damage to minions via talent to make him really, really good at building up stacks. Turn him by default into a slow and steady character who gradually becomes a monster if left unchecked. He essentially becomes a sort of lumbering blunt object compared to the precision strikes of Tracer and other speedy ranged assassins. Fits the character - nothing fancy, but gets the job done.
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Apr 4, 2018 22:58
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I'd be fine with more offense/utility oriented supports as someone who ends up support maining a lot of the time. There's already a decent level of a support can't keep you up through stupid though, and I can't really think of a solution that would make healing more about triage than keeping someone up in the chaos. (A heal gives you a temporary Muradin trait? I dunno.)Kurieg posted:Nobody notices the healer until they gently caress up is usually the maxim. Though people will usually give me props as, say, Ana, if I rotate up and heal them to full while the tank is otherwise not in danger. No one on your team notices you until you gently caress up. The enemy team tho? In Wood league, you're appetizing bait since KILL THE HEALER is so ingrained in them. I deliberately play this up, esp as Uther(who can take the beating) or Li Li/Lucio(who are frustratingly slippery as gently caress) Also I feel like specialists rely a lot on tilting the opponent as well, Murky especially. It's why Murky does well in QM situations but is never picked in HGC. You're trying to irritate the enemy into making mistakes, or underestimating you, or whatever. A pro player knows not to take the bait, but lower level players? It's all too tasty to them. Other specs deal with this too, it's just Murky is the king. Sylvanas and Zagara are things you have to sit on, Probius is about baiting people into chasing you to be squishy, ditto for the Vikings. It can be really irritating to play against even if it's not all that powerful. I sort of feel like Nazeebo doesn't really count since he's a mage and should just be an assassin. Hammer at this point may as well be an assassin too since a lot of assassins have stupid range tricks that used to be exclusive to her. (Lookin at you Junkrat/Hanzo.)
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Apr 13, 2018 22:48
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Otherkinsey Scale posted:Every Leoric I've seen in QM is like this. Most of the time they somehow manage to hedge themselves in with their Entombs, too. Excuse me, it's called trait value. If he isn't dying, his trait is worthless, and that would be bad.
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Apr 15, 2018 07:11
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Kerrzhe posted:people will even get mad in AI games. i got one earlier this week who bitched the whole game (about kill stealing, no less. a mechanic that doesn't even exist in this game) and all i could do was just laugh at the sad bastard. Confirming people will vent AI games. Was playing with a friend just taking it easy, and he started to basically hoard all of the coins on Blackheart's Bay. Had about 50 at the end and deliberately died right before the core went down just to explode in a sea of gold. People started bitching at him despite the fact we were easily winning through traditional siege.
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May 3, 2018 21:36
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Ret Paladin in HotS should be Tirion Fordring w/ Ashbringer IMO. It's pretty much the last thing that can be mined from the class since Uther/Johanna have all the other things. Reckoning Bomb as above as one ult, something with Avenging Wrath as a base for the other. Maybe a trait where allied deaths temporarily empower him. Murky/Leoric/Tyrael trait value, except you get it from them being dumb instead of being dumb yourself. Tirion and Murky become one of the strangest and most effective tag teams. If you wanted a gimmicky take on Leeroy Jenkns as a HotS character, my galaxy brain idea is actually making him a Support who can give movement speed/healing in greater amounts when surrounded by allied/enemy heroes. Sort of a Support who specializes in making his team dive in recklessly. Maybe a Nano Boost style ult where he can empower himself or someone else to run in alone and not just instantly be deleted.
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May 20, 2018 18:33
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moush posted:But Diablo wasn't just a cc bot, he could literally 100-0 people. Is there a better CC than Dead though? CC Bot.
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May 23, 2018 06:31
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Yrel would fit into the Ret Paladin niche nicely and would be the first Draenei character. I just didn't think she was major enough to warrant an inclusion. Like, most characters are either major players and fan favorites or characters created to represent an RTS unit (Brightwing, Blaze, Hammer, Lunara). Actually if they're pushing for more women, Blaze should have been one. It'd be daring to make a female character that was super hard to sexualize by having them under all that armor. Morales had this niche but then they made the enforcer skin, so eh. I also don't know why everyone pushes for Anduin to be a shadow priest(disregarding the Hearthstone thing), I can't really recall him doing anything very shadow. He's pretty solidly a Disc/Holy priest, which is fine, I think since the Malfurion rework there's an empty niche of ranged healer who doesn't need to be aggressive. It's really odd they gave Malfurion that style, because the Regrowth+Moonfire thing is pretty much the Atonement+Smite Disc priest thing exactly. Now if it's a desire for a Shadow priest character, I can understand that. Blizzard is really bad with making priests not terrible lorewise and shadow priests especially. I literally cannot name an actual shadow priest character in Warcraft who seems like they matter enough for HotS, barring some novel or comic book or something like Valeera?
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Jun 1, 2018 22:34
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I disqualify Maiev on Boobplate. Jojo's pretty good, just needs a helm(which she gets in a lot of skins to be fair). My theoretical lady Blaze tho would just be the same Blaze(graphics and everything) with a more feminine voice. I guess the TF2 Pyro parallels might be a bit much tho.Captain Oblivious posted:Honestly? Quite a few now. The Horde is bordering on matriarchal after Legion Ditto on this. Liadrin I thought/think she would be a shoe-in for the next Paladin if it wasn't Tirion or some other Ashbringer wielder. Moira might be a good pick for the Shadow priest problem, but there's a Moira in Overwatch too so... I dunno? The other Windrunner sisters are probably a no. Alleria is technically doing a whole void thing so you could have a shadow magic/archer thing to build around, but i couldn't even tell you off hand what Vareesa is a generic elven ranger, and don't quote me on it(it's just lore thread osmosis not direct sources), she's a Knaak creation so his cool human hero could have a elf waifu. Vashj is someone who keeps being floated around due to WC3 callbacks. Azshara is a big deal lore wise and is actually getting her villain time in the next expansion. As for the actual teaser, my guess is Mei just because it's been six months since we've had a new Overwatch hero to bitch about.
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Jun 2, 2018 03:51
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I hope if they really want to push that narrative, there's a skin for Anduin that's him in the BfA cinematic armor that makes his auto attack using the sword. Only he attacks incredibly slowly because he doesn't know how to use it, and it does the same pitiful mage-style AA damage as you'd expect from Anduin. Sweeten it with audip design - have Anduin visibly struggling to swing it, it doesn't make much of an oomph of a sound, and he complains at you for making him use his melee attack - ala Abathur or Cain.
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Jun 3, 2018 03:53
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I didn't know there was that much opposition to Tirion, Most of the fondness is the quest chain, backstory of actually being practical instead of lawful stupid(he happily works with the Horde/Death Knights/whatever for the greater good), and a good ol' drop of Wrath nostalgia. He also didn't overstay his welcome like other expansion head NPCs. See; Thrall. Turalyon is the closest comparison, he spends most of his screen time obedient to his windchime waifu, then when that's done snaps right back to being a racist against orcs after orcs helped him seal away space satan. That said I totally see the push for more diversity in warcraft characters as the game is human heavy as is(ignoring Diablo/Starcraft/Overwatch being dominantly human - I guess the Vikings are technically human too? They're dwarf like but never actually called dwarves?). We could use more characters who aren't Humans, Orcs, or any type of Elf,(barring Trolls, those are a good type of Elf.)
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Jun 3, 2018 23:29
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The AI seems to have savant syndrome to me. They will unerringly hit skill shots that only the most pro of players can make, then go try to take a merc camp alone at the 15 min mark for easy ganking. They will throw 4 people to stop the player Gazlowe from pushing. This is a good decision now and again. The problem is all 4 pretty much stayed there the whole game, ignoring the rest of the team easily winning the game. That last one happened in my last AI game. All I wanted was to drop turrets everywhere, not have Zagara, Azmodan, and Greymane swarming me. 
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Jun 10, 2018 12:08
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Want to add to the Lili chat - she excels at the 'obnoxious goading healer' archetype, ie Murky mode. As with Murky, it's a lower rank thing(since I assume higher level players don't bite as easy). The Fast feet and the blind/slow is a really good way to lure people to their deaths if they go full kill the healer mode. You can do this with other supports, yes, but Fast Feet and people having an irrational hatred of pandas just gives Li Li the edge here. Karazhim can be cheeky with his dashes, Lucio can do it while adding tickle damage, but beyond that, supports are lead foots who have to rely on CC and others to adequately flee.
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Jun 16, 2018 00:59
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Fend is a gap closer on a ranged character and it's weird. I mostly just use it for laning/healing up with ring of the leech. War Traveler also lets you relentlessly chase people down like some sort of impossible to escape terminator. It's sort of funny to chase down Tracers who are trying to be cheeky. The extra burst is probably better in a more organized setting though. Titan's Revenge is also a good gently caress you Garrosh pick. I usually go Valkyrie/TR or Ball Lightning/Infinite Lightning as my 10/20 combo. Infinite Lightning can just be loving hilarious sometimes.
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Jun 21, 2018 19:49
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ToastyPotato posted:Does the difficulty of AI games determine the hero pool? Because putting it on beginner to quickly grind quests I always get the same 9 heroes. Yes. Beginner seems to favor heroes that are also 'easy' as far as the game thinks. You'll pretty much get only them until you turn the difficulty up. I say this because I used Beginner games to gently caress around and be at 10% HP or something before retreating, and then AI Raynor calls down the banshees on me to finish me off. Raynor is literally in every game at Beginner. AI Raynor will not be hosed with.
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Jun 21, 2018 20:00
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HitTheTargets posted:Smash Bros has certain characters that more or less have the same moveset; they're called Echo Fighters. I was thinking about this in relation to putting Tosh in the game but differentiating him from Nova. What if he has the same Trait, slower but more impactful Basic Abilities, and he differentiates himself with his Heroics? I think the problem is Overwatch heroes are sort of already pre-made. Overwatch is a very MOBA-esque game to begin with. https://overwatch.gamepedia.com/Genji Like, straight down on the line, there's his AA, his Q, W, and E, and one of his ults. The HotS and Overwatch concepts usually start the same and can diverge down the line - In Overwatch, Hanzo lost scatter arrow and D.Va got some missiles, on top of everyone who isn't Tracer getting an alternate Heroic ability in HotS. Roadhog being a sort of ranged Stitches could work, there's just the fact that Stitches hook is probably his most iconic ability and mirroring it seems weird, and Roadhog without a hook isn't Roadhog. They might do it, but it would straight up make Stitches feel less unique, which as an older hero he probably is struggling to remain.
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Jul 15, 2018 05:08
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appropriatemetaphor posted:I'll see your three Yrels and raise you...three Alex's! ...did did someone play Alexstraza?
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Jul 22, 2018 02:27
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hey he has a spear. that could lead to something creative gameplay wise. Cassia throws them, but I assume Imperius would actually hit people with it directly. Zoltun Kulle needs to be an announcer and I can't believe i didn't realize this sooner.
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Jul 25, 2018 17:01
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Boing posted:Zoltan Kulle is just Alarak but in Diablo, change my mind You say that like it's supposed to not make us want a Zoltan Kulle announcer.
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Jul 25, 2018 17:44
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Looking cool as gently caress is sometimes all you need. See: Imperius. It's not uncommon for that to be the only selling point. Like, Boba Fett was super popular to Star Wars fans forever and that dude did jack poo poo.
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Jul 27, 2018 12:59
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I'm just sort of afraid it'll be another Malfurion where if you can spin the plates of keeping the buff up and staying in range to do damage while still keeping yourself safe, you're golden. Can't do all of that? You kinda suck now, sorry. Malfurion is like, one of the most wrongfully labeled 'difficulties' since his rework.
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Jul 28, 2018 17:07
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Yeah, Lorenado is an April Fool's thing. I'm actually surprised the upgrade isn't to make it do actual damage. I would have totally played an Archivist in D3 but I guess cosplaying Deckard doesn't really play into the game's power fantasy aspect. That said, Deckard Cain is a fan favorite with no literal combat prowess, so they have to pull poo poo out of their rear end. I think the kit they gave him works pretty well for what theme he has, he's basically just throwing random poo poo he's collected over the years. He's not running on raw power, just cleverly using what he has. He's pretty much Scholar Batman in a way. I'm trying to think of a similar character who could fit that label of fan favorite non-combatant, but most moderately popular characters in WoW have some sort of combat prowess, i don't know enough about Starcraft or Overwatch to really pull from that, and the only other character who comes to mind in Diablo notable enough and not really a warrior is Leah, whose combat abilities are: uselessly plink at enemy with bow. Also being corrupted and turning into Diablo, but that niche is filled by...um, Diablo. And I'm not really hearing people clamoring for her anyway. Blizzard seems to go on the idea that if a character gets popular, they have to kick rear end in some way.
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Jul 28, 2018 19:24
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Deckard tends to be fine after about Lv7 or so in my experience, as someone who spams everything off CD. I tend to only need to hearth once a match. My favorite mana-hog is Muradin. My warrior mana. It's the only thing though that prevents him from having infinite sustain, though. It seems to just be a relic and they're not sure if they want mana to matter or not it seems. More than a few heroes just don't give a poo poo about it while others live and die by it. Kerrigan goes OOM really fast, but like, Hanzo doesn't care. Raynor doesn't care. Then there's heroes who just have 1 talent and boom it doesn't really matter anymore or will not matter later on - Rehgar, Kael'thas who stacks Mana Addict well.
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Jul 31, 2018 16:40
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It also has pyroblast syndrome where it's really, really telegraphed if they have some way of nullifying damage. Even more so since it can be beat by just moving faster.
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Aug 1, 2018 23:51
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So I've been playing a long time and have been having stuttery lag for awhile. I mostly keep it to myself and just let people assume i'm bad(because yes, I'm bad) but I always thought it was for a crap connection. I apologize/whine about it, cause it only happens when poo poo starts to go down and things start flying. Some random Genji in unranked then says 'your settings are too high then probably, look at those'. I've left it on the defaults since HotS claims it's the 'suggested' settings. I turn them down and I have it happen a lot less in the next few games. The lesson is Blizzard doesn't optimize for crap, and if you're dealing with some laggy nonsense, it just might be your settings too high for your CPU/Graphics Card/Whatever the gently caress. The game still looks drat pretty at slightly lower levels, you don't need dynamic hyper shadows or whatever the kids these days love. I salute you random Unranked Draft Genji. I'd send you a thank you but there's way to contact people from past games(for likely good reason). 
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Aug 10, 2018 04:16
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i think they suggested a more standardized 'support' role, separate from a healer role. They pitched the Vikings as part of this role, given they primarily help through XP soak. Medivh would still be part of this role. I don't know who else. Zarya? Tyrande and Tassadar were part of this, but eh. Murky, ironically, might be best classified as a bruiser. He can get deceptively tanky and put out some decent damage. It would be a weird trap to put a super squishy with no HP in that role though. Maybe Stealth with more of a focus on just being deception? Yeah, I don't know. I'm assuming the roles in the ultimate role rework would be, maybe not with these names, but: Tank - Muradin, Arthas, Johanna Bruiser - Leoric, Mathael, Ragnaros Melee Attacker - Thrall, Xul, Alarak Ranged Attacker - Valla, Raynor, Hammer Stealth - Nova, Zeratul, Samuro Mage - Nazeebo, Kael'thas, Azmodan Healer - Malfurion, Deckard, Kharazim Support - Zarya, Medivh, Vikings More of examples and guesses.
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Sep 24, 2018 22:10
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Cishet White Dude with decent health here, but I've always taken that calling things cancer was just saying 'they are bad in a virus like way'. It acknowledges cancer is a bad thing. I don't think it's the same as calling something 'gay' as a pejorative, since there's nothing innately bad about being gay or gayness. I dunno, I wouldn't fight someone if I accidentally used it and they complained though, I can see it as 'belittling' a serious thing too. Calling something AIDS though to me seems to have underpinings of homophobia (eventhough AIDS is super inclusive and everyone can get it, it's progressive like that). Actual game chat: Lucio to me is the annoyance strain of characters - Lili, Murky, Tracer, Genji. A big part of playing them is goading your opponent into making mistakes in trying to go after you, more specifically the 'kill the healer' idea. Higher ranks, this strategy fails since people are smarter about not doing stupid poo poo like chasing Lucio across the map. They need numbers to compete now, and if they aren't up to par they fall out of fashion. Murky is the embodiment of this. It's why he's a bit of a pubstomper but you never see him at HGC - pro players know how to deal with him and won't flip out at the chance to kill a Murky or take his bait.
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Sep 29, 2018 19:33
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Kith posted:
Sabotage Your Team By Healing the Enemy Tassadar is a strange role to rework him into, but I'm willing to see where Blizzard is going with this and what it means for the overall meta.
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Oct 13, 2018 01:30
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Except for the play with friends one I've done all of them in Me/AI vs. AI. Anything that counts as a game(for Exp, Dailies, etc.) counts.
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Oct 15, 2018 06:28
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If you're not a gimmicky idiot and play normally, yeah. I tended to go bloodthirsty as gently caress against AI and was trying to rack up a giant kill count, but going too deep you die and that counts against you big. Hammer is pretty much the MVP cheat everywhere if for some reason you have trouble. She'll top Siege, Hero, and XP contribution easily. This applies to any disorganized game mode, she just ticks all the boxes blizzard seems to weigh MVP for most. The AI isn't as potent at countering her either.
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Oct 15, 2018 07:36
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It might be a case of suspecting you're getting the same people again and again though as you would in off hours. Or they got out of a Rag game where he was too oppressive and instrumental in their failure. You may have caused that.
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Nov 1, 2018 05:18
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Yeah, Uther seems to be next on the rework list as far as most archaic heroes go. Tank/Healer psuedo hybrid is a good niche no one else is really in - Kharazhim/Rehgar feel like more of melee assassin/healer mixes, Tyrande is a ranged assassin/healer mix, Malfurion/Whitemane is Mage/Healer. If they keep with the same style of rework, I see Uther basically having to be hyper aggressive to get his mana back, more than the one Lv1 quest really gives. Give his stun a heal component, like Lv13 holy light splash applied to it instead. It can be a really fun playstyle they just need to make it work.
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Nov 3, 2018 06:48
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Blizzard is best when they realize they're doing stupid pulp poo poo and embrace it. Blizzard is worst when they get up their own rear end about the lore and trying to justify it beyond 'excuse for doing something cool'. This is the latter, and HotS whole premise just makes everything especially dumb. How do you ever justify a slug symbiote thing infesting a fire-lightning breathing wrestling demon to tackle green Jesus/Moses/Thor hybrid while a time lesbian blinks around in a swimsuit spraying water that is just as deadly as shooting someone using actual bullets? The Jesus/Moses/Thor hybrid, who might be some sort of rock creature this time around, is overwhelmed by this what the gently caress ambush, proceeds to get better one minute later and goes and repeats the whole thing again in hopes of getting to control the giant murder robot. I'm not too versed in other MOBAs, but I mostly took them as excuse plots that people didn't really get super invested in as well?
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Nov 16, 2018 00:34
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I for one look forward to the BHB coin hoarding meta.
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Dec 7, 2018 19:16
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Big Tuna Kahuna + Eggshell = 6400 HP murloc charging at people, where people try to gib you because 'murky has like 400 hp right' It's a pick of mine in QM where there's no tank. Because I AM the tank.
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Jan 9, 2019 02:03
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