Starcrawlers: Grimrock and Shadowrun had a baby in space

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Starcrawlers: Grimrock and Shadowrun had a baby in space

Ugly In The Morning: Jul 1, 2010; Pillbug

Starcrawlers is a pretty awesome game that just came out of early access a few days ago. I've been having an absolute blast with it.

What is it?

Starcrawlers is a first-person dungeon crawler, in the style of Grimrock, Ultima Underworld, Arx Fatalis, and so on. You move in a first-person perspective around a grid based map, keeping an eye out for enemies, traps, and, of course, sweet sweet loot. When you come into contact with the enemy, the game enters a turn-based mode where you and your party of up to three other characters do battle. In combat, you spend time units based on your equipped weapon to either attack or use skills. Weapon choice is important even for skill-based characters, since the time unit cost and damage done by your skills is based on a percentage of a weapon attack.

Ok, well, is there a plot?

Sure is! In addition to procedurally-generated missions to make some extra cash and level up your crawlers, there are story missions. You play as a down-on-your-luck crawler (think runners in Shadowrun- mercanaries used as deniable assets by corporations) who gets roped into investigating an abandoned colony ship. On the way, you'll fight aliens, corporate security, and busboy robots.

How are the classes?

Awesome. Each class has three skill trees that play very differently from one another. My Hacker is specced into the Malware tree, where he launches DOT abilities that are capable of spreading from one enemy to the other. I could have built him around debuffing enemies, or buffing allies. I'll write up the classes and add them to the OP later, and input about what to know regarding non Hacker/Soldier/Smuggler/Prototype classes would be appreciated!

CommisarMega wrote a pretty thorough bit about the classes and their trees:

CommissarMega posted:

Sorry this took so long, was a bit busy IRL for a while

Anyway, the classes are what I really like about Starcrawlers- I know deep dish peat moss said that each class has its own 'one true tree', but having played it after release I don't get that feeling, though it was true in EA. I think that the tree one uses the most is dependent on both your playstyle as well as your party composition- a Soldier who specializes in Taunting enemies is complemented quite well by a Smuggler who specializes in traps, not so much a Gunslinger Smuggler (depending on weapon choice). Besides, there's a quick, easy and somewhat pricey respec option available, so if you feel like you've screwed up/want to try a new playstyle, there you go. There's also a short character creation process at the beginning, allowing you to make three choices that apply permanent bonuses to your first character.

One thing before I begin- skill damage is based on your equipped weapon, and certain skills have an over-time effect which takes place whenever your character's turn comes back up. Depending on your class, you might want slower or faster weapons, which I'll mention in the writeups below. Each Crawler can also have a maximum of five skills on their taskbar in combat (though you can mix and match between fights), so it's not really worth doing a jack of all trades character.

Anyway, the classes!

The Cyberninja is the class for people who like slow-burning combat followed by big numbers, or by people who think their party might have trouble with bosses (e.g. ones mostly composed of the less tankier classes). Their attacks add 'Combo Points' to enemies, which are then used up by their other abilities to do damage and/or apply status effects.

Their Combination skill tree works best with parties that have speedy weapons*, allowing them to play off and alongside their fellows. Assassination is pure, single-target DPS, featuring fast Combo Point buildup and passive instakill chances at higher levels. I'm not sure if this works on bosses too, but high-level Assassins have abilities that are almost just as good, so it's not much of a loss. Also we warned that if you want to get the most out of this tree, you'll need to equip the Cyberninja with melee weapons. Deception is for when you want to keep your Cyberninja out of trouble- most of it's focused on stealth and concealment, with higher-level skills granting concealment to the whole party, or blinding armies of opponents. After all, there's more than one way to not be seen...

In terms of adventure skills, I haven't used them much, though that's because I usually run with a Hacker, Engineer and/or Smuggler. Between those three I usually have enough adventure power to get past most challenges That being said, the Cyberninja is usually slim and lithe enough to get through small spaces that even the Engineer's devices below cannot handle (mostly evident when you go raiding spacecraft).

The Engineer is one of my favourite classes, as their skills provide a great deal of utility in both combat and adventure sections. As class stereotypes go, they're summoners, with two out of their three trees involving building small devices out of a per-combat resource called Jigawatz to cause damage and/or distract enemies.

The first of these trees is a general construct tree called, well, Constructor, which involves the Engineer building small, temporary devices that can be used one additional time for added effect. For example, the first time you use the first skill in the tree, Deploy Junker, it deploys a small turret that if you select the skill again, explodes dealing damage to all enemies. The second skill tree is Rigger, which is used to buff up your Engineer and sometimes your party, though without any Taunt abilities you'll need a very damaging weapon if you plan to run an Engineer tank. That said, Rigger does have some party buffs, so its quite a worthwhile investment. Finally, the Bolty tree focuses entirely on a robot companion named, well, Bolty. Bolty can tank, can do damage, and at the highest level, is capable of using those abilities autonomously without consuming your precious Jigawatz, meaning that you can overwhelm weaker mobs with sheer numbers of constructs.

Adventure-wise, the Engineer really comes into their own when you venture into mine areas, as Riggers can easily force doors open, while Bolty can be sent down dangerous shafts to see what lies beyond. Even in more 'civilized' areas a Rigger can usually be called upon to bust doors open, though I usually have a Hacker on-hand for that.

Ahaha, you thought the Soldier was the tank? No, no, man, there is no force tankier than a Force Psyker. These hard dudes and dudettes specialize in creating barriers and whacking people with psychokinetic powers from their reserves of Force Energy, a slow-generating reserve (though their skill trees have various ways of spike egeneration). With that being said though, while an offensive Force Psyker isn't a bad build by any means, you're really missing out by not using their tanking skills, especially with two of their skill trees being different flavours of tanking.

The first is the Guardian tree, which is the most classic tanking tree as it focuses threat gain on your character, absorbing damage in various forms and at mid to high levels, healing yourself and allies. Since there is no healer class and healing is rare, you will learn to take and love what sources of self-healing there are. The next tree is their Sentinel tree, which focuses on generating damage-absorbing Barriers for you and your party. Again, there is very little in the way of healing resources, so if you can't heal, might as well not get damaged in the first place. Their third tree is the Berserker tree, which is a very solid second choice if you've got another tank in the party. This tree focuses on crits, both dealing them out and generating them- very nice if you have a weapon that has an effect-on-crit.

Adventure wise I haven't seen much from Force Psykers, but that's because they're not a class I've played with much, as I tend to focus on offence instead of defence. That said, I've just started a game as a Force Psyker, and things seem quite cool so far. One other thing is that when it comes time for them to speak (each class does have some flavour text), they sound like medieval knights, which is cool as hell.

Next up is the Hacker, who is as much of a pure support as Starcrawlers has. They might not be the top damage dealers (and indeed, might actually be the weakest player character in this respect if you start as one), but when it comes to combat and adventure usefulness, the Hacker is pretty much tops. I'd strongly recommend hiring a Hacker as soon as possible because of that.

Their first skill tree, Rootkit, might have the most adventure utility because it focuses on disabling security systems, but don't think it's combat worthiness suffers because of this. It's a debuff tree with quite a few skills that stun, daze, charm and generally take enemies out of the fight without actually having to kill them, which is invaluable at higher levels. Their next skill is Malware, which focuses on inflicting DoTs, though like the Force Psyker's Berserker tree, I consider Malware to be a secondary skill tree at best. After all, the Hacker is terrible at DPS, and you'll want the fastest weapon you can find so that their viruses take effect more often. However, this is just one man's opinion, and there might be a good Malware build out there. Anyway, the Hacker's third tree is Optimization, their buffing tree. This is a wonderful skillset, and I usually alternate between Rootkit and Optimization as the latter lets you 'pull' your slowest teammates in the turn sequence, slow down enemies, buff up resistances and even perform minor healing.

Their adventure skills are also nothing to sneeze at, especially when you enter office environments. Many security systems can't stand up to a standard Hacker, much less a Rootkit Hacker. Even if you're a doofus like me who triggers them anyway because you don't look where you're going, a good Hacker can still disable the consequences either in dialogue, or by finding the override switch (which still needs a Hacker to disable). Truly, my second favourite class.

Next is the Smuggler, a nefarious ne'er-do-well whose got the varied skillset an undecided Crawler might need. They're not as good as more dedicated classes at what they do, but if you need a niche filled, the Smuggler's got you covered. Bit of a warning though- like the Cyberninja, they have a signature weapon tree, this time with the pistol, though they can do a lot more damage with pistols than you might think.

The Smuggler's first tree involves Dirty Moves. This usually involves throwing bombs, summoning holograms to taunt and tank, as well as disabling enemies. A very solid set of skills, especially in the later game where disabling and debuffing becomes as important as DPS. Next up is Gunslinger, which vastly boosts your Pistol damage and requires Pistols to use. This tree does good single-target DPS, and can ricochet shots off enemies to spread the pain. It even has a Taunt, though without some skill synergy with the Force Psyker or another Gunslinger skill, this is often suicidal. Their final tree involves Cheap Tricks, which requires you to place your trust in RNGsus and thus might not sit well with some players. Some of its skills even require you to spend your credits to make them work. I have to admit, I don't see much use out of this tree, especially since there's a much better risk-and-reqard class to come.

The Smuggler is also similarly versatile in adventures. While they don't have as many interactions as the Hacker and Engineer do in offices and mines respectively, they do have a tendency to find you the most profit. Find a case full of drugs you know know wot of? Have the Smuggler taste them, so instead of having a cheap pile of pills to sell you have actually useful items. Find a box of shiny rocks? Don't get cheated selling shinies for pennies, get a Smuggler to appraise those valuable minerals! If you like making and spending money, the Smuggler's for you.

If the Force Psyker's a tank with a side of DPS, the Soldier is the vice to the FP's versa. If you need something or someone blown up, you're looking for a Soldier- and sometimes, the person being blown up IS the soldier. Also, unlike the Hacker and the next class, the Soldier loves their slow, heavily-damaging weapons as a few of their skills rely on time delays.

This is evident in their 'Tactician' skill tree, with said tactics mostly involving the Soldier saying "COME AT ME BROS PBTTTHHH", with 6 out if its 7 skills either drawing aggro or buffing the Soldier when they draw aggro. While this doesn't bring the Soldier to Force Psyker levels of tankiness, the Soldier's other skill trees do let them dish out the damage they take. Speaking of which, the Demolitions tree is for those who love explosions, and ensuring nobody but their team walks away from them. Demolitions also specializes in Fire damage, and both Smugglers and Hackers have their own ways of dealing such damage, assuming nobody else on the team has Fire weapons anyway. Finally, Specialist Soldiers do great with all kinds of more conventional weapons. if you need strong, steady, reliable damage, the Specialist tree is what you're looking for.

In terms of adventure skills though, the Soldier's second last in this respect, as their skillset mostly involves shooting things and/or blowing them up. What did you expect? They do well when it comes to blowing security cameras up at least.

I should warn you before we begin that my love for the Void Psyker borders on the unhealthy, and is massing its tanks for a pre-emptive strike on the unnatural. Forget the Smuggler's Cheap Tricks tree, if you're looking for high risk, high reward gameplay, look no further than the Void Psyker, who calls upon unholy entities and energies to harm their enemies, fueled by the souls of forsaken children in the form of Void Energy. Void Energy is highly volatile- while I've never had problems walking with my Void Energy maxed, getting there's very risky. Basically, the game takes into account how much Void Energy you gain via your powers per round, as well as how much you end up with after, and based on that there's a chance of the Void Psyker losing control of their Void Energy and blasting everyone for massive damage. Your party, enemies, everyone's invited to the party.

But hey, power demands a price, after all.

This power comes first in the form of the relatively subtle Manipulator, who travels the shadowed depths between minds to drain the energies, both artificial and natural, of their enemies, to charm, confuse and maze them within waking nightmares and who can steal their very buffs to feed the endless hunger of the nameless thing which has taken residence in the Void Psyker. Evokers vomit their rage and pain onto others for temporary relief, and in doing do, cause DPS the likes of which will never be seen again save in the rapidly receding memories of those who jump awake at night, their tormented bodies glistening with cold sweat. Summoners don't actually summon critters the same way Engineers do, but when has the Void Psyker ever obeyed laws that mortals can comprehend? Instead, Summoners open rifts into... 'somewhere else', which often manifests as extremely debilitating status effects or the tendrils of some nether beast/beasts/where-they-come-from-you-don't-need-eyes-to-see crushing your foes. And at the very highest levelm you can even summon a Cosmic Horror, who might reward you if you're lucky, or if you're unlucky THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN

Remember when I said the Soldier is the second-last when it comes to adventure interactions? Yeah, to date, all through EA to today, I've never seen a Void Psyker adventure interaction that wasn't part of the tutorial. That's okay- they usually leave the concerns of the flesh to Hackers and Engineers, who can handle that kind of stuff while the Void Psyker ~~desperately tries to avoid bargaining their souls away to things that can only be named in the death rattles of innocents wrongly executed~~ gibbers away in the corner.

Prototype?

You can get a murderbot that glitches out and speaks in Haiku after the first mission. It's awesome. He's awesome.

I plan on expanding the OP once I get some screenshots and a little further into the game, but I wanted to get the thread open so people could discuss the game. Feel free to suggest some additions.

Ugly In The Morning fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Jun 2, 2017

# ? Jun 1, 2017 21:49

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 20:59

Filthy Monkey: Jun 25, 2007

Fun game. I've been playing it a bunch. I like old school turn-based combat similar to might and magic or wizardry games.

Malware hacker is definitely the OP class of OPness right now. The dev has said that he is going to give it some rejiggering.

Engineer and cyberninja are a little weak, but they have their uses. Spreading fire DoTs with the ninja's cyclone kick is pretty good. Engineer has some strong party buffing passives.

The rest of the classes are all solid, and can find a good place in any team. I like cheap tricks smuggler quite a bit. Mugging enemies can easily make you several times more than actual mission rewards, and he has some good healing abilities.

Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Jun 1, 2017

# ? Jun 1, 2017 22:02

Ugly In The Morning: Jul 1, 2010; Pillbug

Filthy Monkey posted:

Mugging enemies can easily make you several times more than actual mission rewards, and he has some good healing abilities.

Yeah, I've been making bank on mugging enemies. I keep getting that teddy bear loot item worth 150, which is often more than the mission reward. I do need to get the healing abilities soon, though, since medpacks are crazy expensive. Needing to use one pretty much makes the mission a net loss.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 22:07

Filthy Monkey: Jun 25, 2007

You can get 500 credit vases from mugging occasionally too.

Bounty is quite good for healing, though it doesn't last long. Healing the lowest hp crawler automatically for 5% hp is pretty good though. I find the heal on double down harder to get good use out of, since it isn't instant, and most combats end fairly quickly. I haven't experimented much with his dirty moves tree, but I feel like it would be an excellent second tree for NG+ mode, due to the last skill starting combat with all of your traps out. Gunslinger seems to synnergise less well with is other trees, since pistols aren't exactly stellar weapons.

Personally I am playing without a hacker right now, just because malware is so stupid strong. The main problem is really logic bomb, and how it interacts with crits other party members make. I might try an optimization hacker for overclocking prototype though.

# ? Jun 1, 2017 22:14

super sweet best pal: Nov 18, 2009

Filthy Monkey posted:

Malware hacker is definitely the OP class of OPness right now. The dev has said that he is going to give it some rejiggering.

As long as they don't nerf Shareware too hard. Spreading all the DoTs around is what makes Hacker fun and puts a huge emphasis on enemy turn order.

Does Soldier get better at higher levels or am I better off sticking with Force Psyker as my tanky class? Those debuff chains are the single most damaging attack my party has right now.

super sweet best pal fucked around with this message at 00:59 on Jun 2, 2017

# ? Jun 2, 2017 00:53

Filthy Monkey: Jun 25, 2007

In fact, they literally JUST patched the game with a hacker nerf.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/318970/discussions/0/1290691308571616341/

quote:

Hacker
Logic Bomb Explosion can no longer deal critical damage.
Viruses spread by Shareware no longer immediately check again for spreading again, leading to uncontrolled spreading. Again.
Reduce explosion and bonus Virus damage of Kill Switch and increased cooldown. Kill Down should be at peak power when multiple targets are suffering from multiple viruses.

Cyberninja
Fixed a miscalculation of Combo Point damage on Assassination. It should be slightly more appealing now.

Fixes
Fixed a rare bug that could occur when loading a mission save in a position that would trigger a combat.
Fixed some tooltips persisting after their menu item had been closed.
Fixed display error in menus when a syndrome was affecting Critical Hit chance.
Removed a redundant call to clean the scene of unused objects.
Fixed an issue that could cause a betrayed character to make a sudden appearance at an inopportune time.
Fixed an issue that could cause a summoned ally to halt combat when facing a certain enemy.
Fixed an issue with Madness syndrome that could cause the victim to become immune to damage.
Fixed an issue that could cause Retrieve missions to destroy the target item when the mission launched, rendering it impossible to complete
Fixed an issue with the PAR Camera Drone that would cause it to miss registering misses when on a mission to score misses.
Fixed an issue that could cause a bonus objective to smash drilling machines for HEHS to create an unattainable amount of objective items.
A minimap marker now follows Rai�el.
Repositioned hit locators on Mite Swarms.

super sweet best pal posted:

Does Soldier get better at higher levels or am I better off sticking with Force Psyker as my tanky class? Those debuff chains are the single most damaging attack my party has right now.

Soldier is pretty solid all around, but his best tree is probably demolitions. Frag grenade has to be one of the best tier 1 abilities out there. Both rocket strike and bouncing betty are very good, dependable attacks. One party I used included a soldier, void psyker, and cyberninja. The point was to spread fire dots everywhere with the cyberninja. If the enemies were unshielded, use rocket strike. If the en enemies were heavily shielded, use ignite.

Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Jun 2, 2017

# ? Jun 2, 2017 01:00

Ugly In The Morning: Jul 1, 2010; Pillbug

If you give prototype a rifle, he combos really well with the soldier's rocket ability that does insane damage to unshielded enemies. The rifle takes out two shield pips, and his kill cone does a weapon attack on three enemies, which lets you strip shields fast for that nice "gently caress this guy in particular" skill.

E:I think that hacker fix is pretty fair. Most of the skills are fast enough he'll still be spraying DOTs everywhere, it just won't be that the entire enemy row starts dying at the start of their turn

Ugly In The Morning fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Jun 2, 2017

# ? Jun 2, 2017 01:10

grrarg: Feb 14, 2011; Don't lose your head over it.

How many ability points can you expect to have by the end of a playthrough?

The only bad thing about this game is you cannot change difficulty mid-way through a game. I got a few hours in and was steamrolling everything without using the broken hacker tree. Going to restart on challenging with Gunslinger Smuggler, Optimization Hacker, Void Psyker and Prototype this weekend.

# ? Jun 2, 2017 01:26

Filthy Monkey: Jun 25, 2007

33 skill points or so? I believe the max level for NG is 30.

Your new party should be fine. I would suggest making the Void Psyker your main character, as they have some of the most powerful creation backgrounds.

# ? Jun 2, 2017 02:02

TastyLemonDrops: Aug 6, 2008; you said "drop kick" fyi

This game is pretty easy even on Hardcore Ironman, which is kinda unfortunate. The game is totally my jam otherwise though. The best teammate is the dog though.

# ? Jun 2, 2017 02:36

CommissarMega: Nov 18, 2008; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Ahahaha! You fool, OP! You have saved me a weekend of making an opening post for the thread I was planning to make!

But seriously, good on you for taking up the slack from my lazy rear. That said, I think I can pay you back class-wise, 'cos I made a writeup (that's nowhere near comprehensive or even professionally evaluated) in the Steam thread I hope you can use:

CommissarMega posted:

Sorry this took so long, was a bit busy IRL for a while

Anyway, the classes are what I really like about Starcrawlers- I know deep dish peat moss said that each class has its own 'one true tree', but having played it after release I don't get that feeling, though it was true in EA. I think that the tree one uses the most is dependent on both your playstyle as well as your party composition- a Soldier who specializes in Taunting enemies is complemented quite well by a Smuggler who specializes in traps, not so much a Gunslinger Smuggler (depending on weapon choice). Besides, there's a quick, easy and somewhat pricey respec option available, so if you feel like you've screwed up/want to try a new playstyle, there you go. There's also a short character creation process at the beginning, allowing you to make three choices that apply permanent bonuses to your first character.

One thing before I begin- skill damage is based on your equipped weapon, and certain skills have an over-time effect which takes place whenever your character's turn comes back up. Depending on your class, you might want slower or faster weapons, which I'll mention in the writeups below. Each Crawler can also have a maximum of five skills on their taskbar in combat (though you can mix and match between fights), so it's not really worth doing a jack of all trades character.

Anyway, the classes!

The Cyberninja is the class for people who like slow-burning combat followed by big numbers, or by people who think their party might have trouble with bosses (e.g. ones mostly composed of the less tankier classes). Their attacks add 'Combo Points' to enemies, which are then used up by their other abilities to do damage and/or apply status effects.

Their Combination skill tree works best with parties that have speedy weapons*, allowing them to play off and alongside their fellows. Assassination is pure, single-target DPS, featuring fast Combo Point buildup and passive instakill chances at higher levels. I'm not sure if this works on bosses too, but high-level Assassins have abilities that are almost just as good, so it's not much of a loss. Also we warned that if you want to get the most out of this tree, you'll need to equip the Cyberninja with melee weapons. Deception is for when you want to keep your Cyberninja out of trouble- most of it's focused on stealth and concealment, with higher-level skills granting concealment to the whole party, or blinding armies of opponents. After all, there's more than one way to not be seen...

In terms of adventure skills, I haven't used them much, though that's because I usually run with a Hacker, Engineer and/or Smuggler. Between those three I usually have enough adventure power to get past most challenges That being said, the Cyberninja is usually slim and lithe enough to get through small spaces that even the Engineer's devices below cannot handle (mostly evident when you go raiding spacecraft).

The Engineer is one of my favourite classes, as their skills provide a great deal of utility in both combat and adventure sections. As class stereotypes go, they're summoners, with two out of their three trees involving building small devices out of a per-combat resource called Jigawatz to cause damage and/or distract enemies.

The first of these trees is a general construct tree called, well, Constructor, which involves the Engineer building small, temporary devices that can be used one additional time for added effect. For example, the first time you use the first skill in the tree, Deploy Junker, it deploys a small turret that if you select the skill again, explodes dealing damage to all enemies. The second skill tree is Rigger, which is used to buff up your Engineer and sometimes your party, though without any Taunt abilities you'll need a very damaging weapon if you plan to run an Engineer tank. That said, Rigger does have some party buffs, so its quite a worthwhile investment. Finally, the Bolty tree focuses entirely on a robot companion named, well, Bolty. Bolty can tank, can do damage, and at the highest level, is capable of using those abilities autonomously without consuming your precious Jigawatz, meaning that you can overwhelm weaker mobs with sheer numbers of constructs.

Adventure-wise, the Engineer really comes into their own when you venture into mine areas, as Riggers can easily force doors open, while Bolty can be sent down dangerous shafts to see what lies beyond. Even in more 'civilized' areas a Rigger can usually be called upon to bust doors open, though I usually have a Hacker on-hand for that.

Ahaha, you thought the Soldier was the tank? No, no, man, there is no force tankier than a Force Psyker. These hard dudes and dudettes specialize in creating barriers and whacking people with psychokinetic powers from their reserves of Force Energy, a slow-generating reserve (though their skill trees have various ways of spike egeneration). With that being said though, while an offensive Force Psyker isn't a bad build by any means, you're really missing out by not using their tanking skills, especially with two of their skill trees being different flavours of tanking.

The first is the Guardian tree, which is the most classic tanking tree as it focuses threat gain on your character, absorbing damage in various forms and at mid to high levels, healing yourself and allies. Since there is no healer class and healing is rare, you will learn to take and love what sources of self-healing there are. The next tree is their Sentinel tree, which focuses on generating damage-absorbing Barriers for you and your party. Again, there is very little in the way of healing resources, so if you can't heal, might as well not get damaged in the first place. Their third tree is the Berserker tree, which is a very solid second choice if you've got another tank in the party. This tree focuses on crits, both dealing them out and generating them- very nice if you have a weapon that has an effect-on-crit.

Adventure wise I haven't seen much from Force Psykers, but that's because they're not a class I've played with much, as I tend to focus on offence instead of defence. That said, I've just started a game as a Force Psyker, and things seem quite cool so far. One other thing is that when it comes time for them to speak (each class does have some flavour text), they sound like medieval knights, which is cool as hell.

Next up is the Hacker, who is as much of a pure support as Starcrawlers has. They might not be the top damage dealers (and indeed, might actually be the weakest player character in this respect if you start as one), but when it comes to combat and adventure usefulness, the Hacker is pretty much tops. I'd strongly recommend hiring a Hacker as soon as possible because of that.

Their first skill tree, Rootkit, might have the most adventure utility because it focuses on disabling security systems, but don't think it's combat worthiness suffers because of this. It's a debuff tree with quite a few skills that stun, daze, charm and generally take enemies out of the fight without actually having to kill them, which is invaluable at higher levels. Their next skill is Malware, which focuses on inflicting DoTs, though like the Force Psyker's Berserker tree, I consider Malware to be a secondary skill tree at best. After all, the Hacker is terrible at DPS, and you'll want the fastest weapon you can find so that their viruses take effect more often. However, this is just one man's opinion, and there might be a good Malware build out there. Anyway, the Hacker's third tree is Optimization, their buffing tree. This is a wonderful skillset, and I usually alternate between Rootkit and Optimization as the latter lets you 'pull' your slowest teammates in the turn sequence, slow down enemies, buff up resistances and even perform minor healing.

EDIT: It seems I was wrong about Malware hacking! According to Filthy Monkey and verified by me:

Filthy Monkey posted:
Malware hacker is, BY FAR, the most broken thing in the game right now. As soon as you get three points in mindmelt, shareware, and logic bomb you are off to crazytown. The DPS caused by other classes can't even compete.

The main offender is really logic bomb, which causes damaging area explosions whenever an enemy takes a crit. Combine that with other attacks/viruses that hit groups, and you'll quickly explode down everything so long as you have some decent crit chances. For example, the soldier bouncing betty combos extremely well with logic bomb. As it bounces exploding, it can crit and trigger the logic bombs, triggering more exploding, making everything die. It is fun for a little while, but it quickly sucks any challenge out of the game.

Their adventure skills are also nothing to sneeze at, especially when you enter office environments. Many security systems can't stand up to a standard Hacker, much less a Rootkit Hacker. Even if you're a doofus like me who triggers them anyway because you don't look where you're going, a good Hacker can still disable the consequences either in dialogue, or by finding the override switch (which still needs a Hacker to disable). Truly, my second favourite class.

Next is the Smuggler, a nefarious ne'er-do-well whose got the varied skillset an undecided Crawler might need. They're not as good as more dedicated classes at what they do, but if you need a niche filled, the Smuggler's got you covered. Bit of a warning though- like the Cyberninja, they have a signature weapon tree, this time with the pistol, though they can do a lot more damage with pistols than you might think.

The Smuggler's first tree involves Dirty Moves. This usually involves throwing bombs, summoning holograms to taunt and tank, as well as disabling enemies. A very solid set of skills, especially in the later game where disabling and debuffing becomes as important as DPS. Next up is Gunslinger, which vastly boosts your Pistol damage and requires Pistols to use. This tree does good single-target DPS, and can ricochet shots off enemies to spread the pain. It even has a Taunt, though without some skill synergy with the Force Psyker or another Gunslinger skill, this is often suicidal. Their final tree involves Cheap Tricks, which requires you to place your trust in RNGsus and thus might not sit well with some players. Some of its skills even require you to spend your credits to make them work. I have to admit, I don't see much use out of this tree, especially since there's a much better risk-and-reqard class to come.

The Smuggler is also similarly versatile in adventures. While they don't have as many interactions as the Hacker and Engineer do in offices and mines respectively, they do have a tendency to find you the most profit. Find a case full of drugs you know know wot of? Have the Smuggler taste them, so instead of having a cheap pile of pills to sell you have actually useful items. Find a box of shiny rocks? Don't get cheated selling shinies for pennies, get a Smuggler to appraise those valuable minerals! If you like making and spending money, the Smuggler's for you.

If the Force Psyker's a tank with a side of DPS, the Soldier is the vice to the FP's versa. If you need something or someone blown up, you're looking for a Soldier- and sometimes, the person being blown up IS the soldier. Also, unlike the Hacker and the next class, the Soldier loves their slow, heavily-damaging weapons as a few of their skills rely on time delays.

This is evident in their 'Tactician' skill tree, with said tactics mostly involving the Soldier saying "COME AT ME BROS PBTTTHHH", with 6 out if its 7 skills either drawing aggro or buffing the Soldier when they draw aggro. While this doesn't bring the Soldier to Force Psyker levels of tankiness, the Soldier's other skill trees do let them dish out the damage they take. Speaking of which, the Demolitions tree is for those who love explosions, and ensuring nobody but their team walks away from them. Demolitions also specializes in Fire damage, and both Smugglers and Hackers have their own ways of dealing such damage, assuming nobody else on the team has Fire weapons anyway. Finally, Specialist Soldiers do great with all kinds of more conventional weapons. if you need strong, steady, reliable damage, the Specialist tree is what you're looking for.

In terms of adventure skills though, the Soldier's second last in this respect, as their skillset mostly involves shooting things and/or blowing them up. What did you expect? They do well when it comes to blowing security cameras up at least.

I should warn you before we begin that my love for the Void Psyker borders on the unhealthy, and is massing its tanks for a pre-emptive strike on the unnatural. Forget the Smuggler's Cheap Tricks tree, if you're looking for high risk, high reward gameplay, look no further than the Void Psyker, who calls upon unholy entities and energies to harm their enemies, fueled by the souls of forsaken children in the form of Void Energy. Void Energy is highly volatile- while I've never had problems walking with my Void Energy maxed, getting there's very risky. Basically, the game takes into account how much Void Energy you gain via your powers per round, as well as how much you end up with after, and based on that there's a chance of the Void Psyker losing control of their Void Energy and blasting everyone for massive damage. Your party, enemies, everyone's invited to the party.

But hey, power demands a price, after all.

This power comes first in the form of the relatively subtle Manipulator, who travels the shadowed depths between minds to drain the energies, both artificial and natural, of their enemies, to charm, confuse and maze them within waking nightmares and who can steal their very buffs to feed the endless hunger of the nameless thing which has taken residence in the Void Psyker. Evokers vomit their rage and pain onto others for temporary relief, and in doing do, cause DPS the likes of which will never be seen again save in the rapidly receding memories of those who jump awake at night, their tormented bodies glistening with cold sweat. Summoners don't actually summon critters the same way Engineers do, but when has the Void Psyker ever obeyed laws that mortals can comprehend? Instead, Summoners open rifts into... 'somewhere else', which often manifests as extremely debilitating status effects or the tendrils of some nether beast/beasts/where-they-come-from-you-don't-need-eyes-to-see crushing your foes. And at the very highest levelm you can even summon a Cosmic Horror, who might reward you if you're lucky, or if you're unlucky THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN THE SUN

Remember when I said the Soldier is the second-last when it comes to adventure interactions? Yeah, to date, all through EA to today, I've never seen a Void Psyker adventure interaction that wasn't part of the tutorial. That's okay- they usually leave the concerns of the flesh to Hackers and Engineers, who can handle that kind of stuff while the Void Psyker ~~desperately tries to avoid bargaining their souls away to things that can only be named in the death rattles of innocents wrongly executed~~ gibbers away in the corner.

# ? Jun 2, 2017 12:32

Filthy Monkey: Jun 25, 2007

Nice writeup. Smuggler is probably my personal favorite class. I enjoy mugging enemies for all the money, and he has some useful heals. Though I haven't done NG+, I feel like he would do well there because of trap card in the left tree. Once skill points are more abundant than skill slots or in-combat time, passives and skills that don't require TU go up in value. Starting combat with three traps out, costing you no TU, sounds like a good deal.

One piece of advice I have is to get those +5% heal on kill accessories. Distributed to your team, they give you a good bit of extra sustain. particularly if you are going for a more offensive setup.

I feel like cyberninja is one of the harder characters to get good value out of, but you can do it. If you can get him a weapon that makes enemies start with 0-3 combo points at the beginning of combat, he becomes much better.

Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jun 2, 2017

# ? Jun 2, 2017 16:28

Ugly In The Morning: Jul 1, 2010; Pillbug

Excellent write up, it'll go in the OP when I'm at my computer at home.

Filthy Monkey posted:

Nice writeup. Smuggler is probably my personal favorite class. I enjoy mugging enemies for all the money, and he has some useful heals. Though I haven't done NG+, I feel like he would do well there because of trap card in the left tree. Once skill points are more abundant than skill slots or in-combat time, passives and skills that don't require TU go up in value. Starting combat with three traps out, costing you no TU, sounds like a good deal.

I like the gunslinger smugglers shoot first passive for that reason. It's a chance to strip shield pips for no TU cost, and it works well with things that proc on critical hits because of a pretty hefty crit bonus.

# ? Jun 2, 2017 16:32

OzFactor: Apr 16, 2001

Are any of you running this on a computer without a dedicated video card? I'd scoop it up immediately if I knew it would run decently on my laptop.

# ? Jun 2, 2017 21:12

Filthy Monkey: Jun 25, 2007

Depends on your integrated graphics, I think. This is what people say about it on the steam forum.
http://steamcommunity.com/app/318970/discussions/0/1290691308569466229/

# ? Jun 2, 2017 21:40

Daztek: Jun 2, 2006

I like Void Psyker as protagonist because they're insane as gently caress and vomiting purple junk all over the screen as Evoker never gets old

# ? Jun 3, 2017 09:31

alarumklok: Jun 30, 2012

Super neat game.

I made cyberninja work on accident with my team with his ambush skill. Most of my team aside from the force psyker are in light armor, and the optimization hacker uses hyperthreading near the start of combat. He passively has near full combo points on everything by the time he gets around to targeting them with a finisher.

# ? Jun 3, 2017 13:00

Ugly In The Morning: Jul 1, 2010; Pillbug

Having skills damage and TU use go off of your weapons was a real smart move. I have my hacker equipped with a fast melee weapon, so he still sharts DOTs everywhere even after the nerf. They don't do much damage, but when logic bomb costs 30 TU you can usually get two off with a black ICE or overheat in the middle before the enemies get a turn.

# ? Jun 3, 2017 17:08

Filthy Monkey: Jun 25, 2007

Despite all the whining on the steam forums, malware hacker is still probably one of the best dps classes. People don't seem to be happy unless he is utterly dominating everything to the point the game is trivial.

One team I am messing with is optimization hacker, combination/assassination cyberninja, demolition soldier, annihilation prototype. The goal is that each character has some synergy with the others.

The big combo is really having the hacker overclock prototype's thunderclap. Give prototype a heavy hitting slow weapon. Thunderclap hits all enemies for 200% weapon damage and strips shields. Good damage, and is my main method of removing shields. So hacker-prototype as one synergy.

Just like you said, hacker has hyper-thread to boost dodge, aiding cyberninja's ambush. Hacker-cyberninja as second synergy.

Cyberninja has cyclone kick, to spread around the fire DoT from the soldier's rocket strike. Soldier-cyberninja as third synergy.

Between optimization hacker and haiku, the party has a good amount of healing too. I will admit that cyberninja is a little tough to use compared to some of the other damage classes. Soldier is straightforward and effective, but cyberninja takes more work to exploit. Giving him a weapon that makes the enemies start with combo points makes a big difference.

# ? Jun 3, 2017 18:57

OzFactor: Apr 16, 2001

All right, picked it up last night. It runs fine on my laptop, so for those of you with terrible computers, go for it!

I played for about an hour, going through a couple missions, and it's neat! The combat is... there's a lot going on. I sort of thought there would be some actual tutorializing in the lampshaded tutorial mission, but there wasn't. Is the game going to explain things like how shields work, and time units, and other combat stuff? Or should I just read the in-game help/codex thing to figure it all out?

# ? Jun 6, 2017 16:32

Pulsarcat: Feb 7, 2012

You pretty much need to read the codex since there are a lot of terms the game throws at you, including stats that are unique to each weapon, armour and shield type.

But basically shields have two major stats you need to worry about on top of the usual resistance percentages, damage absorb and charges.
The damage absorb is the amount damage it takes off and charges are how many times it can do this before it burns out.
Only light shields recharge naturally, but some of the of others can be upgraded to recharge as well, always check the upgrades for a piece of equipment.

Time units work like this:
When you use an attack or an ability it adds a certain number of time units that need to pass before you can act again, the more TU the longer it takes for your next action.

Let's say you have two abilities one uses 50 TU and the other 120 TU and your opponent hits you with an attack that costs 100 TU
If you use your 120 TU ability he'll get the next turn since 120 > 100 but if you say use the 50 TU ability you'll go again and can then pull off the 120 TU ability before he can act.

Keep an eye on the bar at the top of the combat screen, not only does it show the order people are going to act in, but if you hover over an ability it will show when you can act again if you use it.

Some other tips:
Character classes have utility abilities they can use outside of combat, like hackers, well, hack stuff.
The odds of them working are based on where you put your ability points, when you can use a utility ability it will show up as a blue option and list which of the three skill trees it's using.

Hacker is by far the most common followed by engineer and sometimes the smuggler.
Others like the Void Psyker pretty much never come up.
You'll usually want a hacker in your group since they are pretty much the thief class when it comes to utility,

there aren't a whole lot of healing abilities in the game, and on top of that the heal effect is a secondary effect, you'll need to rely on medkits for major healing and they don't show up in stores very often.
A good way to get a whole bunch is to go on office raids, they'll pop up a lot during those missions

If you want to gain favour with certain groups you pretty much have to piss off others, so take a good look at the various groups, what they offer and try to be consistent with who you work for, getting in good with a group has some handy benefits.

Also these benefits aren't always obvious, like the various weapon and armour groups give you gear in exchange for favours, but some of the "useless" looking ones offer stuff too, like Hollow Earth Hollow Soul which comes across like PETA crossed with PBS seems like a joke group at first, but if they like you they will sometimes give you bonus objectives to complete during side jobs.

Pulsarcat fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jun 6, 2017

# ? Jun 6, 2017 17:08

OzFactor: Apr 16, 2001

Is crit chance universal? Like, if I give my Void Psyker a weapon with +5% crit, do all her attacking skills get that bonus, or is it limited to "weapon skills?" Because I don't think she has any weapon skills.

# ? Jun 6, 2017 21:14

Filthy Monkey: Jun 25, 2007

Fairly certain it is universal. A common thing early on is to give your malware hacker Riggo's shotgun, since it has such a high crit chance. Makes it easier to spread those viruses.

With exploration too, the trees you have points in determine your success at actions. For example, rootkit hacker is probably the best at actual exploration, with the ability to open doors and use consoles. It is probably his least useful combat tree though. Malware hacker comes up a lot less, but brings the deeps. Optimization hacker can reboot damaged terminals to open up extra treasure rooms.

Cheap tricks smuggler can place bets on employee betting pools and actually win.

Rigger engineer is good at opening up stuck doors in mines.

Annihilation protoype can intimidate the random robots into giving you aid on missions without giving them anything.

In general, I am not big into capstones that require building charges in order to work. My favorites are things like the smuggler trap card, which puts out all of your traps at the start and saves you a bunch of TU.

Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jun 6, 2017

# ? Jun 6, 2017 21:32

Filthy Monkey: Jun 25, 2007

Man, this is the way to start a hacker. The hacker is the first character made, with the background that has +5% crit, +5% dodge. I found this in one of the dressers in the second story mission (the mission with Riggo). Great on a hacker.

Combined with Riggo's shotgun.

Pushes shareware spread up to 70%.

Stallman the neckbeard hacker is going to be in for good times.

# ? Jun 7, 2017 06:09

Node: May 20, 2001; KICKED IN THE COOTER; Taco Defender

Anything that is a Dungeon Master/Grimrock/UU type game gets a semi from me, but I'm going to wait until this isn't early access.

# ? Jun 7, 2017 06:19

uber_stoat: Jan 21, 2001; Pillbug

Node posted:

Anything that is a Dungeon Master/Grimrock/UU type game gets a semi from me, but I'm going to wait until this isn't early access.

it isn't. version 1.0 last month.

# ? Jun 7, 2017 06:22

TastyLemonDrops: Aug 6, 2008; you said "drop kick" fyi

[quote="Filthy Monkey" post="473122127"]
Man, this is the way to start a hacker. The hacker is the first character made, with the background that has +5% crit, +5% dodge. I found this in one of the dressers in the second story mission (the mission with Riggo). Great on a hacker.

I actually found two of them on the same mission.

# ? Jun 7, 2017 06:30

Snooze Cruise: Feb 16, 2013; hey look,
a post

I've been sinking a ton of time into this game lately, its perfect for podcast listening. I accidentally deleted my first save which really peeved me off, I got as far as the train, but I quickly caught up to that point again and readjusting how i played the game a second time has been a really good boon, because man I am actually trying to use the whole favour system this time around and I don't have to rely on drops anymore because Foxin is just giving me a rare weapon after every mission.

Something I surprised to find I like is the game's humor. Like its never laugh out loud funny, but it really hopes sell the setting in an unexpected way.

# ? Jun 17, 2017 19:43

Ugly In The Morning: Jul 1, 2010; Pillbug

The loving magma pumps in the pirate mission are driving me nuts. I found the one behind the waterfall, but can't find the other one

# ? Jun 22, 2017 17:29

Filthy Monkey: Jun 25, 2007

I think you either need to go through the stuck door for the other one, or break into the armory and pick up explosives to blow up some rocks. The code to the armory is from the crystals on the pillar outside. Count the number of each color, from top to bottom.

# ? Jun 23, 2017 09:13

Sulphagnist: Oct 10, 2006; WARNING! INTRUDERS DETECTED

I picked this up on the steam sale and I've played for an hour and I like it so far, but there are two things that are worrying me: 1) how tedious and grindy the combat gets, 2) how long the game takes to beat.

For 2, I'd actually prefer if it's something in the 20 hour range. If the game is procedurally generated dungeons and the same turn-based combat for 40 or more hours, I don't have that kind of commitment in me. And 1 also ties into that, because I'm worried that if it's 40 hours of the same combat and the same dungeons, I'm not going to make it.

If it's 20-30 hours of what I played an hour for, then I'll happily dive back in.

# ? Jun 26, 2017 09:31

Captain Foo: May 11, 2004; we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Just started this game, seems pretty fun. So far I'm rolling with Demolitions Soldier as the Main Character, along with a Rookit Hacker, Manipulation Void Psyker, and Annihilation Prototype

# ? Jun 26, 2017 15:34

Filthy Monkey: Jun 25, 2007

Your party is a little light on sustain with the current setup, but I am sure you can make it work. Be sure to get haiku for prototype. It is going to be your easiest access to a little regen. Consider dipping into optimization for the hacker a little. Overclocking protype's thunderclap is pretty good.

# ? Jun 26, 2017 17:14

Ugly In The Morning: Jul 1, 2010; Pillbug

Thunderclap is the poo poo when it's paired with a demolition soldier. It can strip nearly an entire party of shields (sometimes the whole one, if you use an accurate weapon) in two turns.

# ? Jun 28, 2017 02:17

juggalo baby coffin: Dec 2, 2007; How would the dog wear goggles and even more than that, who makes the goggles?

I really like this game, I love the art style, especially in the battles, and I'm glad there's finally a procedural generated first person dungeoncrawler. I was a huge fan of grimrock and I liked demise a lot when I was a kid.

# ? Jun 28, 2017 02:23

Captain Foo: May 11, 2004; we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Void Psykers with Manipulation for Drain and Soldiers with Demolition for Rocket combo quite nicely

e- also my Prototype is Mutation, not whatever I said it was before :shobon:

# ? Jun 29, 2017 18:48

MJ12: Apr 8, 2009

Engineers desperately need a buff.

I replaced mine with a Smuggler and now my party is ruining faces forever.

# ? Jun 29, 2017 19:39

Sulphagnist: Oct 10, 2006; WARNING! INTRUDERS DETECTED

My force psyker protagonist seems to never have enough force to be useful. Should have probably picked something else.

# ? Jun 29, 2017 21:29

Filthy Monkey: Jun 25, 2007

Inner balance is really helpful for force energy, if you can work towards it. Force psyker definitely gets good value out of having more skill points.

MJ12 posted:

Engineers desperately need a buff.

I replaced mine with a Smuggler and now my party is ruining faces forever.

Yeah, smuggler is better. Honestly, all three of the smuggler trees are pretty good too. It is tough to go wrong no matter which way you build him. I personally like starting with cheap tricks, because Mug solves money problems, but that isn't a requirement. Dirty moves is also excellent, with flash bang and trap card. The middle tree helps give you free damage with shoot first. Smuggler isn't really an OP class, but he is very solid all around.

Filthy Monkey fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jun 30, 2017

# ? Jun 30, 2017 20:22

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 20:59

LordSloth: Mar 7, 2008; Disgruntled (IT) Employee

Antti posted:

My force psyker protagonist seems to never have enough force to be useful. Should have probably picked something else.

The rare accessory is worth picking up as your starting bonus if you've gone down the Guardian route. It regenerates five force energy when you take damage. From some theory crafting, Mirror Prism looks quite a bit more attractive if it refunds 15 energy over the three turns you're taking that energy damage. I've been pretty much set on the Berserker path with my Force Psyker protagonist, however, so I went the uncommon weapon route while stacking crits and damage, and focused on using Force Hammer for as long as possible. Does Fists of Fury suck quite as much as I think it does? Maybe I would need to pair it with a different weapon, but the uncommon weapon packs a huge crit chance bonus so...

# ? Jun 30, 2017 21:08

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Starcrawlers: Grimrock and Shadowrun had a baby in space

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