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It feels like almost every car that previously had a niche or cult following has now seen value inflation out of reach of the average buyer. Used 911s being perhaps the most noticeable example (although Panteras went through a similar extreme price swing), with other Germans like E30s and Vanagons close behind. Good Japanese cars are appreciating in value even outside the standard Civic SI/240SX crowd, with the S2K having gained near 50% value recently and the AW11 MR2 moving up. Classic SUVs like LandCruisers, Scouts, Broncos and Cherokees have long been valuable. There are too many to list here, but those come off the top of my head. What previously overlooked car do you think is next? It feels like there's not much left in the affordable range. I'm partial to the Suzuki Swift GTi, the Isuzu Impulse, the Geo Storm GSi, etc, but those cars will never be loved the way other classics are. I love the 405 Mi16 but French cars have stayed cheap because finding parts is a full time job in of itself. I don't really believe in 'investment' cars and am not trolling for tips, but I am curious what AI's opinion looks like on this issue. Less place your bets, more smoke 'em while you got 'em. blk fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Jul 26, 2017 |
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Jul 26, 2017 05:14
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240Z/260Z and AW11 are next in line. Swift GTis are bloody quick for a cheapo sport compact, but don't have the popularity behind them.
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Jul 27, 2017 00:25
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"Out of reach" is pretty subjective though. To me, any car over $6k that's not a daily driver is out of reach for me. I imagine NA Miatas are going to start getting up there soon the more they are raced, wrecked and ruined by stance idiots. I can imagine 20 years from now reminiscing about being able to pick up clean NA Miatas for cheap and bitching about unreasonable pricing. As far as investments, Jeep Wranglers are practically rolling savings accounts since they hold value so well, that's going to be my next toy purchase 
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Jul 27, 2017 00:52
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Clean FZJ80 Land Cruiser with F/R diff locks will be worth a lot eventually, they are bargain basement for what they are now. I think the E60 M5 will be worth something eventually. V10 sedan, come the gently caress on. 135i MSport and 128i MSport. 1M is already climbing real quick. Cars that shouldn't be worth poo poo: 350z - Already beercan drift boxes that basically replace the 240sx in terms of being an all around upgrade, but not really great. US E36 M3 non-LTW. I'll never understand what happened to the value of these. We can bring in Euro cars with the proper S50 soon, which are LHD. Diamonds in the rough: The EP3 Civic is worth dirt but makes a great DD. IS300 is a solid, reliable car. Toyota tank. I'm already DDing / tracking an AP1 S2000 with a ton of miles and a ton of mods. I'm going to drive it until it dies, then probably not be willing to pay for another. BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 01:08
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As far as cars that could be had for a pittance in recent times, a lot of Volvos seem to be slowly climbing in price like, more specifically, the Amazon, 140, and 240 series. Maybe my memory is rosy, but I swear 5-6 years ago you could find a good quality Amazon or 140 at 3-5k and desirable year 240s (early coupes, or late model classics '93) for 1-2k. Today, if you're after those same desirable year 2 series you're looking to pay 3-5k for a quality car and an Amazon, or 140, is commanding 5k+. The S30 Datsun/Nissans are certainly skyrocketing, and most Wagoneer owners are in dreamland but Im not sure how recent that phenomenon is. Im not sure that i'd invest in any of those cars, but their value has certainly been on the upswing. This is around the US Midwest, mind you.
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Jul 27, 2017 01:09
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I love the Fulvia and prices have gone up maybe 40% in the past four or five years. It's nuts. You were able to get a very nice S1 driver with good cosmetics for like 8-10k euro in Italy, now it's like 12k-15k. Good luck with a Fanalone or anything with a 1.6. The entry point on the 1.6 is like $35k now landed in the US.
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Jul 27, 2017 01:47
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You can still (just) get cheap RX7 Gen 1's..... but I've noticed the prices are starting to go. Reaaaaaally go up. Like 30K and above up. Grab the remaining cheap ones, restore and sit on it - even mine which isnt great has gone up in value and I'll need to insure it for more. GC8 WRX's are currently going through an extinction event, where they are cheap enough to be grabbed by young drivers, they are being scrapped, parted out etc - 10 years and it will get difficult to find one. A good stock one will be a unicorn and priced accordingly. Commodore V8's are a gimme for long term appreciation.
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Jul 27, 2017 01:51
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2007 and down diesel trucks, particularly cummins powered dodges seem to be increasing in value for clean lower mileage ones. What should be a $15k truck is now a $25-30k truck and idiots buy them. The tv show isn't helping. I think the market will be there for a while as well since localities are cracking down on emissions deleted trucks. What I personally wonder about are 90's Mercedes S class. The big slab sided ones. They seem to be in the $500-2500 range (for good reason) but I think the looks are becoming more unique and I wonder if people will want it eventually.
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Jul 27, 2017 02:23
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BlackMK4 posted:
Every IS300 I've seen has either been automatic, salvage titled, or super high mileage (or all 3). I bet if you found a clean titled, sub 100k mile manual example it would fetch 15k easy.
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Jul 27, 2017 05:34
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hmmmm, you may very well be right. I didn't even think about it like that.
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Jul 27, 2017 05:41
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The IS wagons are even more rare and fetch hefty prices, thought about one for a DD but they just command too much for how old they are.
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Jul 27, 2017 05:51
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BlackMK4 posted:Clean FZJ80 Land Cruiser with F/R diff locks will be worth a lot eventually, they are bargain basement for what they are now. If you blow the engine just replace it, that's my plan. I won't ever get rid of it unless it's destroyed, and then I'm getting another immediately.
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Jul 27, 2017 18:33
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F20 is already out of production, F22 can't be too far behind. We shall see, I've been debating supercharging it anyway. 
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Jul 27, 2017 18:40
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Everything in Ontario is priced out of wack if it's remotely semi-desirable.BlackMK4 posted:Cars that shouldn't be worth poo poo: The Z33 and E36 are now popular drift platforms. The Z33 is a fine track car, but little else. Human Grand Prix fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 20:12
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GameboyRMH posted:240Z/260Z and AW11 are next in line. Swift GTis are bloody quick for a cheapo sport compact, but don't have the popularity behind them. Soo what would you say a 71 240z is worth with a 280z engine swap? Decent condition, needs some TLC.
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Jul 27, 2017 20:13
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How rusty is it
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Jul 27, 2017 20:28
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For the PNW- less than I've seen on others that are considered to be in good condition. I haven't got to do a thorough inspection yet.
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Jul 28, 2017 00:01
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the spyder posted:For the PNW- less than I've seen on others that are considered to be in good condition. I haven't got to do a thorough inspection yet. Bought mine 4 months ago in Portland 75 280z with no rust for 3,750 (automatic). I would say a 240 with little or no rust should probably settle around 4750-5750(higher if its got a good interior). The one on BAT with zero rust out of cali closed at like 8,300. But everything on it seemed in really good condition.
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Jul 28, 2017 00:37
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:You can still (just) get cheap RX7 Gen 1's..... but I've noticed the prices are starting to go. Reaaaaaally go up. Like 30K and above up. Grab the remaining cheap ones, restore and sit on it - even mine which isnt great has gone up in value and I'll need to insure it for more. Yeah this is ridiculous to me. At the moment I can see on carsales you can get a reasonably decent FD for $30k, or a reasonably decent FB for... about the same. I can tell you which one I'd rather drive. And it's the opposite to the one I'd rather work on
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Jul 28, 2017 01:34
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Not out of price range, but slowly going out of ability to be found is my favorite car: Audi 4000 Quattro. The supply is slowly drying up.
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Jul 28, 2017 02:00
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This is a bit of an easy prediction by R33 Skylines will start going up as soon as they are 25 year rule eligible just like what happened to the R32s. Peugeot and Renault hot hatches are demanding silly money now. 205 GTI, 106 Rallye, 306 GTI-6, Clio Cup have all started appreciating.
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Jul 28, 2017 03:32
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I'm glad I bought my 944 when I did, because they're creeping upward. If you want a turbo or S2 or a 968, they're getting up there. The N/A ones are heading upward as well. I see a lot of non-runners listing at 2k. Makes sense, since 914s and 928s have gone up substantially in the past few years.
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Jul 28, 2017 14:26
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Speaking of the Swift. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlqTaWDO7og
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Jul 29, 2017 01:04
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That's loving amazing. I bought a Swift GT new back in '93 and I loved that car, maybe I need to keep a lookout for another one.
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Jul 29, 2017 01:14
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I wish I'd kept my first gen Mazdaspeed 3 - when I sold it I wasn't sure whether prices were going to stay steady, increase or crash Aside from that I really wish I'd kept hold of my fathers 2001 S15 200SX which he traded in 2007 for a 2002 Skyline (G35). That Skyline is worth nothing now but the S15 would be.
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Jul 29, 2017 01:25
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Regarding the IS300, I can't find a manual one for less than 8 grand and those are usually modded to poo poo and back. It's a real shame that most of the ones I see on the road are lowered with lovely body kits and the like, too. Someone wrote a jalopnik or oversteer article recently about how its "the best car ever" which isn't helping things.
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Jul 30, 2017 14:49
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BlackMK4 posted:F20 is already out of production, F22 can't be too far behind. We shall see, I've been debating supercharging it anyway. it doesn't matter that they are out of production. You can get a used one and refresh it and build it up while it's out of the car. Also, k series engines are in literally everything, just saying
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Jul 30, 2017 16:00
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On a similar topic how long will it be until the currently classic car bubble comes crashing down in a similar way to Harley sales are because the market for them is shrinking as those in it get old? Prices for 50s to 70s stuff is pretty insane right now.
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Jul 30, 2017 16:35
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Nodoze posted:it doesn't matter that they are out of production. You can get a used one and refresh it and build it up while it's out of the car. Also, k series engines are in literally everything, just saying I think K24 is where I would go if something happened though. wilfredmerriweathr posted:Regarding the IS300, I can't find a manual one for less than 8 grand and those are usually modded to poo poo and back. It's a real shame that most of the ones I see on the road are lowered with lovely body kits and the like, too. I've been watching locally for a while and seen a couple manuals in the 5k range, but I do think you're right on average.
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Jul 30, 2017 17:43
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I think muscle cars have already come down a good bit. I have been watching 1966 chevelle and 62-64 impala prices for the last decade and they are now in the $20k range for a nicely restored or resto-mod example. Maybe an all original numbers matching hemi cuda is still unobtainable but the regular stuff is now the price of a new minivan, or in some cases the price of a focus. Idk how much lower it can be expected to go.
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Jul 30, 2017 17:47
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Isn't this very contingent on which vehicle models were childhood dream cars for the generation that's now wealthy? What's difficult is that the cars can't be too computerized. I bet the Hummer H1 will go up (if it isn't high already), 911 classic will remain high, E36/46 M3s will have their moment too.
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Jul 30, 2017 18:33
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rdb posted:I think muscle cars have already come down a good bit. I have been watching 1966 chevelle and 62-64 impala prices for the last decade and they are now in the $20k range for a nicely restored or resto-mod example. Maybe an all original numbers matching hemi cuda is still unobtainable but the regular stuff is now the price of a new minivan, or in some cases the price of a focus. Idk how much lower it can be expected to go. The bubble is deflating slowly, hard to say if it has burst. One example that comes to mind. Seattle 2015, $14,000: https://www.mecum.com/lots/WA0615-215042/1960-ford-falcon-sedan/ Portland 2016, $12,000: https://www.mecum.com/lots/PJ0616-245230/1960-ford-falcon-custom/ Portland 2017: $8,500: https://www.mecum.com/lots/PJ0617-287957/1960-ford-falcon-custom/ There are 2 big factors at play here. 1. The hoarders are dying, their kids probably aren't interested in the same cars. example: https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/chevrolet/chevelle/1971641.html 2. The technology, information, and tools are easily accessible to make bad cars good. You can find the body style you like and build a good car around it. Universal LS motormounts, 10 million LS based engines out there, pre-engineered suspension components, gauge clusters, ECUs. You don't have to buy an already great car and fix the niggles with bolt ons. look at stuff like engineswapdepot.com and 1320video on youtube. Dudes are building RWD N55 CRXs and hellcat priuses. People are looking to be unique because a pro street 67 camaro doesn't draw any attention at cars and coffee parked next to 20 other pro street 67 camaros. The only cars i think will go up in value are desirable body styles with problematic mechanicals, and even then only rust/damage free examples. The porsche 928, bmw E31, esoteric fox platform cars, 50s-80s bentleys/rolls, late 60s/early 80s mercedes, 70s jags. Cerbera and newer TVRs, Anything 60s-70s and japanese, toyota crowns, celicas, supras, kei cars. The skyline opened a lot of people's eyes to the ease of importation of japanese cars. I may be way wrong, but i don't think we'll see another collectible car that beats inflation. I think as the real nutjobs die out there could be some interesting malaise era estate sale/barn finds where every other example has been crushed that might appreciate a little, but i think the remaining enthusiasts are either going to be able to buy their dream car, or branch out into the oddities to be unique. Stuff that i think you could enjoy and would probably never lose value. https://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/mazda/porter+cab/21356772/ https://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/isuzu/117+coupe/21354124/ https://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/isuzu/117+coupe/21346377/ https://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/toyota/corona/21344058/ https://www.tradecarview.com/used_car/suzuki/fronte/20711108/ (this weighs less than 1000lbs, i can think of some other suzuki engines that would like to be it's friend) https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/tvr/cerbera/tvr-cerbera-1996-4-2-28500-miles/7389173 https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/tvr/cerbera/tvr-cerbera-4-2l-v8-coupe-rhd/7258266 https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=246720150 https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/details.html?id=246224123 I also think we're very close to a wave of custom car electrification. The guys experimenting are refining everything into a very simple formula. I think within a few years you'll see the "electric LS1", or a nearly plug and play unit the size of an LS1 that contains everything needed to produce the performance of the LS1 in an electric package that gets rid of the guesswork and piecemeal production of current electric conversions. I think as battery prices continue to fall, and electric conversion kits become more specialized, a 60 mile range electric conversion will cost the same as a new LS3. Suicide Watch posted:Isn't this very contingent on which vehicle models were childhood dream cars for the generation that's now wealthy? What's difficult is that the cars can't be too computerized. I bet the Hummer H1 will go up (if it isn't high already), 911 classic will remain high, E36/46 M3s will have their moment too. The hummers are fuuuuuuuuuuucked. When all the military surplus HMMWVs hit the public, a whole bunch of guys got the same bright idea at the same time. But the military surplus humvees, restore them up and try to flip them. Some just bought them from ironplanet and tried to flip them as is. Now the good ones are everywhere for $15k because there's a ton of them and even the best one is garbage. $14,500 http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1980-Hummer-H1-Military-/262990682625?hash=item3d3b775a01:g:swcAAOSwKytZHLlD $16,000 https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0117-267722/1991-am-general-hummer/ $16,000 https://www.mecum.com/lots/FL0117-268908/1988-am-general-hummer/ Powershift fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 19:35
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10-15 years ago someone legitimately spent 40-50k buying and restoring muscle cars that they are willing to part with today for half that. The price of bodywork and engines haven't gone down, so those cars will always have some inherent value because they simply cant be duplicated for reasonable cost.
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Jul 30, 2017 19:43
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rdb posted:10-15 years ago someone legitimately spent 40-50k buying and restoring muscle cars that they are willing to part with today for half that. The price of bodywork and engines haven't gone down, so those cars will always have some inherent value because they simply cant be duplicated for reasonable cost. Like Leno says, "if you're making money restoring cars, you're doing something wrong" A lot of guys saw mopar prices double in a few years and thought they were going to go up forever and invested accordingly. Then they went down somehow!
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Jul 30, 2017 19:49
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The nature of enthusiast cars is that they going to have a price floor higher than what a basic transportation vehicle would fetch. Mainly because enthusiasts are cheap/poor and don't buy these cars brand new in large quantities, instead preferring used examples. So, you're the most cost-effective way to drive an enthusiast car is to pick up a lightly used one right before they are killed off. The heavy discounts on new models help keep used prices depressed. It seems like you can score a good deal on a ~2014 370z or an ST-Twin. You could just get a timeless enthusiast car with broad appeal. Mustangs and GTIs always seem to fetch reasonable prices. You can pick up a Mustang at any price point and Mk5 GTIs have long been in the sub-10k market. Alternatively, look for fun cars that have image problems. For example, Celicas are really cheap: I just got rid of mine for $2000. It was fun as poo poo: double wishbone rear suspension, 2500lbs, 8000+RPM redline, six-speed manual and could hit 60 in high 6 seconds. Plus, they are absolute tanks. I've seen hoopties with 250k miles and damage on every body panel driving around. It's basically a half-price Civic Si/ RSX-S. Genesis Coupes. Still a bit pricey, but the four-pots were slow but they handle very, very, very well. They were leagues ahead of the competition in the cornering department. You could get some factory rear camber bolts and some after market toe-links and you'd have a car that cornered like a front-engine Porsche. Probably the most under-rated performance car of the decade. I could easily see these sky-rocketing in price. Neons fall into this category too. The old ones handled like Civics, but came with more power. There also are tons of poor handling, but bonkers-fast SRT models: remember the Caliber SRT? Yeah, me either. Contours. Ford made an SVT version with a manual and a 3.0L Taurus engine (which evolved into the Cyclone V6). They could be made to rev and just needed help breathing up top. Corolla XRS. A four-door Celica GTS with inferior rear suspension. RX8. Cheap because of their unreliable turd-bucket engines. But great handling. Beetle 2.0L TSI. "Girly cars" that are really slightly inferior GTIs. I think most mods worth on either car. Cobalt SS/TC. The supercharged ones had a solid beam rear axle, but the TC ones came with a multi-link rear and 260+hp. Mini Cooper S. Unreliable, but less so than an RX8. Still pretty fun and fast. Chrysler Crossfire. A Mercedes/Chrysler bastard child. I've never driven one, but I've heard they are fun. If you manage to find an SRT-6, I've heard they can be 11-second cars with bolt-ons. Z4s. First-gens are under 10k now. Not sure on reliability though. Velosters. I had a turbo one as a rental and it was really fun, even with an auto. 2012s are sub-10k. 500 Abarth. Newer, but pretty cheap, 2013+ examples are sub 10k. All of these are reasonably good performance cars. I'm sure you guys will have something to say as to why each one of these is a poo poo, but that's also why they are cheap!
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Jul 30, 2017 19:50
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How bad are the R53 Mini Cooper S? Are we talking..... maintaining an E46? They are stupid cheap for what they are.
BlackMK4 fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jul 30, 2017 |
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Jul 30, 2017 20:36
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A lot of this matches my thinking. The whole prices are high because cars are running out to me is wrong when there are fields of rust free cars from the 20s through to today across the south west of the United States. Anything that is completely original, restored, matching numbers, super rare etc... will always demand a premium just as newer desirable cars do but as you said the idea that you need a certain cars for it to be a good car is going away when you can drop the body on a new frame and put modern parts on it. That is not everyone's idea of restoring a car but tbh I like the thing starting first time, being able to stop and not having it handle like a horse cart. The main issue with finding a project car is no longer finding what you want it is finding someone who hasn't found an immaculate, numbers matching and professionally built example of the same car at Barrett Jackson and thinking they can ask the same for their rusty old bucket that has been sitting for 20 years.
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Jul 30, 2017 22:27
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BlackMK4 posted:How bad are the R53 Mini Cooper S? Are we talking..... maintaining an E46? They are stupid cheap for what they are. I think that they had an unreliable cvt that was extremely expensive to fix and the manual used a different block casting that isn't interchangeable.
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Jul 31, 2017 00:08
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Barrett Jackson is the reason.
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Jul 31, 2017 00:11
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oRenj9 posted:
Dumb nitpick : The SVT Contour had the 2.5l Duratec stock. A popular modification was to take 3.0 heads and make a hybrid or to do the 3.0 swap. Either way it was a pretty great car. Rare as hell now though.
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Jul 31, 2017 00:42
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