|
I think a lot of the time it's people going "Hey I can't be racist. My great-grandfather was discriminated against which means I am basically a minority and can therefore say whatever I want about current minority groups."
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 01:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 01:29 |
|
|
sexpig by night posted:Yea anti-Italian/Irish/etc racism was absolutely a thing that destroyed people but it was generations ago and almost always boiled down to nationalist anti-immigrant stuff rather than genuine 'everyone from Italy is a goddamn savage' whenever it happened. The whole thing of people whining about anti-Columbus stuff being 'Irish oppression' is just silly Honestly I found The Sopranos as a whole just absolutely over the top with it's ITALIAN PRIDE!!!!! stuff, to the point where I just started rolling my eyes every time Carmela started going off on how 'actually Italians are really great, I hate how those (non-italian slang word) treat us!' or Tony would visit with people ~*Very Upset*~ about negative Italian portrayal related to his mafia association.. Maybe it's because I grew up in the South, but there has been pretty much no discrimination against Italian people at all through my entire life. It used to be a problem, and if it does come up, sure squash it. But that show sometimes treated it like Italian Americans were getting strung up on street corners in 1990's New Jersey.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 01:19
|
|
|
sexpig by night posted:basically any episode of political thrillers where the idea that one big dramatic reveal/hot mic comment is something everyone is terrified of being a part of was already built in the weird West Wing bubble of every debate being calm and rational people using their own logic to hoist the petard of their foes, but now it seems almost like a joke. Aaron Sorkin is frequently brought up as a punchline in C-SPAM of real world liberals seemingly still in the West Wing mindset rather than engaging with reality, which should say a lot regardless of its accuracy. Politics outpacing satire has really messed with a lot of things.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 01:36
|
|
|
TenCentFang posted:I mentioned it before, but it got a bit harder to watch Dragnet when after an unfortunate comment about homosexuality, and of all decades since the show aired it's more cringy than ever how far it bends over backwards to make the police look saintly in any conflict with civilians. Weeelllll...there was that one episode with George Takei of all people that's kinda problematic despite what it's btrying to accomplish...
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 01:37
|
|
|
TenCentFang posted:It's weird he basically admitted all the fun wacky characters on the show were horrible racists. A mix of racism and social pressure. My grandparents, who lived in the very deep south, would have been considered pretty progressive folks for that era. They didn't mind at all when the local schools were integrated (in 1966!) but they weren't about to lead the charge for integration. To even make pro-integration views known publicly was suicide for southern businessfolks.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 02:51
|
|
|
RC and Moon Pie posted:It's a bit more complex. Griffith certainly didn't do all he could have done. I appreciate the effort in your post. I still think that the very fact that they didn't challenge the views on the things you mentioned makes them a worse show than the ones I mentioned that pushed the envelope
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 02:59
|
|
|
Mister Kingdom posted:Oh no, a person actually straight up called me a racist just for that one episode. You are
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 03:20
|
|
|
Naw I'm just playing. I don't think you're a racist. Yet.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 03:22
|
|
|
Gilligan's Island is racist because all the characters are white
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 03:30
|
|
|
Instant Sunrise posted:The Andy Griffith spinoff Gomer Pyle USMC was incredibly dated right from the start. It came out in the midst of the Vietnam war and just it didn't acknowledge that at all, despite being set on a Marine Corps base. I had no idea that's where the nickname "Gomer Pyle" in Full Metal Jacket came from. FreudianSlippers posted:I think a lot of the time it's people going "Hey I can't be racist. My great-grandfather was discriminated against which means I am basically a minority and can therefore say whatever I want about current minority groups." I ran into something similar on the bus a few days ago. A woman was there with her child, she was white and the child was black, so this guy says "oh, is that kid yours? I thought it was hers" and points at some black woman in the back. The mother freaks out at him, of course; fortunately, he gets off a station or too later, but not before saying something like "you think I'm racist? What if I told you I was Native American?!"
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 03:38
|
|
|
I'd probably think he was a liar. Er, not because Native Americans are liars or anything, that's not what I'm saying. That's not what I'm saying at all, it's just he probably isn't. Ugh, let me start over, the problem with the modern Native American today is
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 04:38
|
|
|
You're just digging yourself a deeper hole, friend.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 06:14
|
|
|
The Bloop posted:I appreciate the effort in your post. And Andy Griffith debuted in 1960, not 1970. Civil rights were starting to heat up; Rosa Parks was in 1955, Little Rock's school integration was in 1957. One-third of America's population was still rural and few schools had integrated in the south. The Twilight Zone had a social conscience (and also aired on CBS), but the rural shows were what paid the bills. Gomer Pyle, USMC didn't mention Vietnam despite airing from 1964-69. CBS clearly didn't want to touch social issues. Nor did really anyone else. Dick Van Dyke was considered very progressive for its time. ABC accidentally hit upon real America when it cut into an airing of Judgment at Nuremberg with footage of violence from the Selma march. Just look at how lovely the lineup was for 1965, one year after the Civil Rights Act. Almost all the television of that era was bubblegum, popcorn, whatever you want to call it. None of them advanced society, but none of them had any designs to do so. Especially since with the near total lack of rerun opportunities, few even had a second chance to see an episode of a show.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 06:29
|
|
|
Mister Kingdom posted:Does a show having a few episodes that are now considered offensive affect your enjoyment of that show as a whole?
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 09:57
|
|
|
Is F Troop racist or no-longer funny? The love interest was only 16 and 17 for the show, so it's got that going for it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 10:58
|
|
|
Mister Kingdom posted:A general question for all: After the episode where Douglas Reynholm has a fistfight with his girlfriend after he finds out she's trans, I find it hard to watch any of the IT crowd. Feels like there's ugliness just hiding under the surface 
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 11:20
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:After the episode where Douglas Reynholm has a fistfight with his girlfriend after he finds out she's trans, I find it hard to watch any of the IT crowd. Feels like there's ugliness just hiding under the surface You're not supposed to like Reynholm though. Isn't the whole point of that episode 'this relationship is perfect for him and his bigotry ruins it?'
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 11:40
|
|
|
Yeah but it goes way too far imo. The violence is the joke, laugh track and all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 11:44
|
|
|
Captain Monkey posted:Honestly I found The Sopranos as a whole just absolutely over the top with it's ITALIAN PRIDE!!!!! stuff, to the point where I just started rolling my eyes every time Carmela started going off on how 'actually Italians are really great, I hate how those (non-italian slang word) treat us!' or Tony would visit with people ~*Very Upset*~ about negative Italian portrayal related to his mafia association.. Maybe it's because I grew up in the South, but there has been pretty much no discrimination against Italian people at all through my entire life. It used to be a problem, and if it does come up, sure squash it. But that show sometimes treated it like Italian Americans were getting strung up on street corners in 1990's New Jersey. Isn't that the point? They're dicks. Stuff like Tony complaining about how black people get all these special scholarships and stuff while there's nothing for the poor Italians (never mind the fact that I'm a millionaire crime lord), or getting pissed off about schools teaching about Columbus as a colonist rather than just venerating him as a Great Italian Hero. They're the mobster equivalent of Fox News whingeing that white Christians are the real persecuted minority. There's episodes about how despite the big deal they make about their Italian heritage, they actually go to Italy and everyone thinks they're idiot American boors who can't speak Italian and don't know how to make spaghetti properly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 11:48
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:After the episode where Douglas Reynholm has a fistfight with his girlfriend after he finds out she's trans, I find it hard to watch any of the IT crowd. Feels like there's ugliness just hiding under the surface Showrunner is a TERF, so yeah. There you go.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 11:52
|
|
|
Magnus Manfist posted:There's episodes about how despite the big deal they make about their Italian heritage, they actually go to Italy and everyone thinks they're idiot American boors who can't speak Italian and don't know how to make spaghetti properly. I don't really know a lot about Italian-American culture but is there a sort of plastic paddy equivalent there, then?
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 11:53
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:After the episode where Douglas Reynholm has a fistfight with his girlfriend after he finds out she's trans, I find it hard to watch any of the IT crowd. Feels like there's ugliness just hiding under the surface Wtf Graham Linehan is a straight up terf 
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 12:28
|
|
|
Magnus Manfist posted:Isn't that the point? They're dicks. Stuff like Tony complaining about how black people get all these special scholarships and stuff while there's nothing for the poor Italians (never mind the fact that I'm a millionaire crime lord), or getting pissed off about schools teaching about Columbus as a colonist rather than just venerating him as a Great Italian Hero. They're the mobster equivalent of Fox News whingeing that white Christians are the real persecuted minority. There's episodes about how despite the big deal they make about their Italian heritage, they actually go to Italy and everyone thinks they're idiot American boors who can't speak Italian and don't know how to make spaghetti properly. Don't forget that in the Columbus Day episode, Furio, the guy sent in from the Neapolitan mafia to help Tony, says that they despise Columbus because he was from Northern Italy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 13:15
|
|
|
Gravitas Shortfall posted:After the episode where Douglas Reynholm has a fistfight with his girlfriend after he finds out she's trans, I find it hard to watch any of the IT crowd. Feels like there's ugliness just hiding under the surface I'm glad I am not the only one who gets a real icky feeling when watching that episode and it does definitely colour the rest of the series. That "Haha, Roy has been sexually assaulted" episode comes a close second.
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 16:52
|
|
|
Sarcopenia posted:Wtf Graham Linehan is a straight up terf Holy poo poo he legitimately is https://medium.com/@AlexaEphemera/its-time-to-call-out-graham-linehan-s-ugly-transphobia-30b15be317a5 So it's not that the episode has aged poorly it's that the writer of father ted and the it crowd just legitimately hates trans people
|
|
#
?
Sep 28, 2017 17:05
|
|
|
Magnus Manfist posted:Isn't that the point? They're dicks. Stuff like Tony complaining about how black people get all these special scholarships and stuff while there's nothing for the poor Italians (never mind the fact that I'm a millionaire crime lord), or getting pissed off about schools teaching about Columbus as a colonist rather than just venerating him as a Great Italian Hero. They're the mobster equivalent of Fox News whingeing that white Christians are the real persecuted minority. There's episodes about how despite the big deal they make about their Italian heritage, they actually go to Italy and everyone thinks they're idiot American boors who can't speak Italian and don't know how to make spaghetti properly. Yeah its entirely possible I missed that subtext. My bad, I thought it seemed ridiculous a lot.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 06:47
|
|
|
It was definitely the subtext, the episode where they actually go to Italy is proof of it. Poor Pauly
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:33
|
|
|
Did you miss the part where Pauly and the others bitched about Starbucks stealing Italian culture to get rich while they were going around collecting protection money from family businesses. Christopher thought the Cuban missile crisis was just from a movie and not real. They are all dumb shits.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 14:46
|
|
|
"I've got a semester and a half of college, so I understand psychology as a concept."
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 15:14
|
|
|
Captain Monkey posted:Yeah its entirely possible I missed that subtext. My bad, I thought it seemed ridiculous a lot. The great thing about the Sopranos was it did make them completely ridiculous, while also being terrifying. They'll straight up murder you and bribe or intimidate enough people to get away with it, but they're also a bunch of terrible entitled obese clueless idiots who start gang wars over a fat joke about someone wife. The best part of the show are scenes like them trying to do an intervention for Chris but ending up kicking the poo poo out of him instead, or Pauly almost in tears over getting poison ivy on himself while literally murdering someone. It's totally in character for them to sit in a mansion counting the money they've extorted from working class families while bitching that they're a persecuted minority.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 15:46
|
|
|
54 40 or gently caress posted:It was definitely the subtext, the episode where they actually go to Italy is proof of it. Poor Pauly Poor Commendatori 
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 15:50
|
|
|
Yeah, them trying to lean on a chain coffee shop for protection money was awesome. If you aren't experiencing a wide range of feelings about the characters, it isn't good television. I remember almost ditching Breaking Bad halfway through the last season because I couldn't stand to look at Walter White anymore. Breaking Bad episodes are going to age beautifully because the characters and their opinions are already loathsome.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:03
|
|
|
Yeah I'm rewatching breaking bad and want to rewatch sopranos. Like Walt is so loving despicable yet people were cheering him on and hated Skyler. It was Peggy Hill levels of missing the point.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:20
|
|
|
It's because Bryan Cranston is a better actor and the character is more interesting.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:34
|
|
|
Mu Zeta posted:It's because Bryan Cranston is a better actor and the character is more interesting. I'm sure that's part of it, but my guess is that it's probably more because Skylar was a woman.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:44
|
|
|
SpacePig posted:I'm sure that's part of it, but my guess is that it's probably more because Skylar was a woman. It totally had to be that. So many people couldn't even stop to think about what it must have been like from her POV. Imagine your spouse, who you've been with for decades, has been lying to you, and is now a murderous, psychopathic meth dealer.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 16:48
|
|
|
Hank was the one who irritated me, I found him very grating. It was obvious from s1e1 that his "role" in the show was to be the guy who figures out walt and you just had to sit and wait and pretend like you didn't see that coming years in advance until the last season.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 17:00
|
|
|
I liked that in Season 2 Walter's Laundered Money explanation to his wife became literally a Fairly OddParents joke with the crowdfunding scam. "Where'd you get millions of pounds Walter?" "uuuuhhhh... Internet?"
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 17:00
|
|
|
BioEnchanted posted:I liked that in Season 2 Walter's Laundered Money explanation to his wife became literally a Fairly OddParents joke with the crowdfunding scam. "Where'd you get millions of pounds Walter?" "uuuuhhhh... Internet?" What?
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 17:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 01:29 |
|
|
Anna Gunn literally received death threats from dumb nerds because she played a rightfully "bitchy" woman. But she didn't play a cool sociopath so yeah.
|
|
#
?
Sep 29, 2017 17:04
|
|