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Precambrian posted:9-11... Any other shows where you can tell it was made right after a national tragedy? From way back, but The Sopranos removed the WTC from the opening credits and Spiderman 1 removed it from a TV trailer they'd shot. I don't think M*A*S*H* has aged particularly well. The first few seasons are pretty good (with Frank and Henry) but still rife with misogyny and sexist humor (the film too), not to mention characters named "Spearchucker", "Lt. Dish" and "ho-Jon". Somehow it got even worse once Alan Alda began playing a heavier role and everything swung over the opposite direction "war is hell", really heavy handed liberalism and "deep meaningful" character exploration where every episode dealt with an established character having an amazing epiphany. Also, how did the doctors always manage to perform surgery completely poo poo faced all the time? Friends and South Park (with the exception of a few classic episodes) have always sucked. The person who posted that All in the Family rape clip was way off. That 2-part episode was brave to tackle and terrifying to watch. AITF was way was ahead of its time and is still strikingly relevant. I think the brevity and weight of that episode caught the live audience off guard, and rightfully so, probably, since it was a sitcom. Other 70's crap, like Happy Days and Three's Company are just cringe worthy though. In the case of "The Fonz", here you have a misogynist, uneducated high school drop out who bullies "nerds" and is afraid of being called "chicken" or backing down from any dare who is somehow the coolest role model hero ever. With TC...my god... the jokes were stupid back then but where to start with the gay bashing, creepy womanizing, objectification, rear end slapping and all the "zany misunderstandings" that lead to all those "whacky hijinx?" I guess TC hardly counts since it was always terrible but it was really popular. "HAppy Days" had some good episodes early on when it was basically just "American Graffiti". The idea of "The Six Million Dollar Man" cracks me up nowadays but basically just because of the price tag. I'm surprised they're never rebooted that show. Good thread idea, OP.
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Aug 6, 2017 18:14
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:The Twilight Zone will forever hold a special place in my heart, and its impact on television back in the late 50s/early 60s can't be overstated, but man even some of the most classic episodes just come across as ham handed nowadays. It's not the show's fault that so many of its innovations have since become cliches of course. Alfred Hitcock Presents too, although most of those hold up surprisingly well. mind the walrus posted:I wonder how the current streaming era of television production will age. There's so goddamn much of it... I think it'll hold up pretty well. I'm not sure if the overall quality is better or if there's just more content but there's been a ton of great poo poo on TV the last decade or so. I think the cream of it will be remembered.
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Aug 6, 2017 20:38
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Whitlam posted:M*A*S*H is the hill I'll die on and I've made my peace with that You take that one, I'll take All in the Family. We've got the 70's 20% covered.
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Aug 6, 2017 23:37
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Dragnet is sort of a funny one because it's fantastic as camp, so in that sense it's aged really well, but it was meant to be taken 100% seriously and played completely straight. It's star, Jack Webb, was a notorious commie hatin', hippie bashin', stiff, conservative square who was actually really like Joe Friday in real life and thought that's how cops and criminals really acted and poo poo. Much as I adore AITF, I don't think the spinoffs, Maude, The Jeffersons or Good Times have held up too well. They feel kind of forced and too heavily dated. What about shows that HAVE aged well? I'd say Cheers, AITF, Seinfeld, Alfred Hitchcock Presents, Bob Newhart, Carol Burnett and even Columbo still stand up. Taxi to a certain extent. I still love Columbo and the original Bob Newhart. The Chuck Jones era of WB cartoons too.
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Aug 7, 2017 19:09
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ThePlague-Daemon posted:the Jerry Springer Show: Speaking of poo poo that has't aged well. Not that it was never not poo poo.
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Aug 7, 2017 19:47
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Not a TV show, but the "Long Duck Dong" poo poo from "Sixteen Candles" is really hard to watch these days, as well as the drunken rape of the prom queen. I don't like that movie.
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Aug 8, 2017 16:35
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mind the walrus posted:---------------------- That scene crossed my mind too but I didn't want to get into derailing by listing too many movies. But, yeah, the Animal House scene is awful.
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Aug 8, 2017 16:57
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Holy poo poo. Here's one. loving MTV's "The Real World". In almost every way it was the precursor to the current model of "reality TV", so right there I can't forgive it. The first few seasons were interesting in a guilty pleasure kind of way - the sort of poo poo everyone watched but didn't admit to - probably peaking with the "Puck" and "Pedro" season, but as it went on it became more an more obvious how calculated and scripted it was and the whole premise became about casting it to create maximum provocation and to basically invent cheap "celebrities". Then it all amalgamated into the abomination that became "Jersey Shore" and everything horrible associated with that poo poo so gently caress The Real World. Jesus, I didn't realize they still did this dumb show.
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Aug 8, 2017 18:37
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Davros1 posted:Columbo holds up really well, except now at the end, a lot of times I find myself thinking "Yeah, I don't think that's going to hold up in court." This made me laugh and I've thought the same way except he usually gets the motherfucker to confess.
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Aug 9, 2017 01:27
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RC and Moon Pie posted:It was a huge deal, being network TV and all, when Chicago Hope and ER said "poo poo" during an episode. Hey...hey there buddy. Let's watch the potty talk.
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Aug 9, 2017 18:35
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Cool to see I'm not the only remaining Columbo fan. I wonder...do shows that sucked from the onset count as "not aging well" though? Because poo poo like Three's Company and Walker: Texas Ranger were always hideous garbage. At least TC had bouncing titties and tight asses back when that was rare and hard to find, which was the only reason anyone watched it, but W:TR was just Chuck Norris doing what Chuck Norris does and that was always pretty lame. I'm trying to think of stuff that was popular and considered good at the time but looks like trash now. Here's one though. The Incredible Hulk hasn't aged too well. At the time it was kind of exciting and for a while was fairly well done but it didn't take long for it to just become "Banner travels to a new town, takes a job as a dishwasher, a lumberjack, or a bartender, guts caught up in a drug ring, a kidnapping or a land grab or some poo poo" and then he freaks out and beats the christ out of everyone in slow motion before moving on with sad music playing while that reporter dude chases him. Bixby was pretty good as I remember though but it got formulaic real quick. I mentioned "The Six Million Dollar Man" earlier and I think the first season or so largely holds up but, jesus christ, then we got bionic dogs, bionic babe and bionic bigfoot and ...actually...wait...I take it back because that poo poo owns. What's wrong with me and what am I talking about? They should give that show the 21 Jump Street treatment and make a funny movie out of it. I think it'd be hilarious to remake it in terms of 6 million dollars being cheap and his poo poo keeps breaking or runs on DOS or something. Hire me, hollywood. The Cosby Show has aged terribly. For very obvious reasons. It was actually kind of good for a little while but all I can see is "rape" if I try to watch it now.
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Aug 9, 2017 21:04
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Davros1 posted:Oh, and sorry to burst your bubble, but Kevin Smith already pitched that 6 million dollar man movie. What was his pitch? Because Smith is one of the last people I'd want to direct whatever it is I have bouncing around in my head. I'd want more of a Naked Gun/Leslie Nielsen thing. I'm picturing something where it's a dude who was built in the mid to late 90's with "cutting edge tech" who's really out of shape (either too skinny or too fat) and gets a really lovely 6 million dollar makeover where an average baseball player makes more than that. Maybe like a 90's era Wil Ferrell or Ben Stiller and do poo poo like giving him a Zip or a SyQuest drive to upgrade him. HIs bionic eye would be all sorts of green wireframe poo poo or 1st gen 3d/VR and his legs would move too fast and drag the rest of his body down the street and poo poo like that. Gilbert Godrfeid, Chris Farley or Chris Kattan might work. Someone the total opposite of Tom Cruise or Bruce Willis anyway. I think it'd be funny but this isn't really the thread for my movie pitches so sorry.
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Aug 9, 2017 22:47
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sassassin posted:Bobby is a cruel and selfish boy it's not out of character at all. What? No. Not at all. Where did you get that from? Bobby's a big softy who likes to make people laugh.
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Aug 11, 2017 04:46
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Hyrax Attack! posted:I'm not sure if it was for that reason... It was.
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Aug 11, 2017 05:24
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Safe to say King of the Hill has aged very well. I'll be damned if I can see Bobby as anything close to an rear end in a top hat (he's a pretty sweet, sensitive kid) and Strickland as anything but one though. Hank's a conformist who needs "The Rules" to feel secure and cedes to authority and tradition while Bobby is off center and whimsical, which has Hank thinking he's "not right". I'm not sure how anyone could have any other takeaway but whatever. One of the things I liked about King of the Hill was that it actually made an attempt at continuity for the most part, even though no one really aged. It'd be funny to see an animated show that actually aged the characters in real time.
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Aug 11, 2017 16:45
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Gaunab posted:An animated show where the characters age in real time seems like it would defeat the purpose of having an animated show. True, but it'd be a novel idea anyway. Not sure it's ever been tried.
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Aug 11, 2017 17:38
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Krispy Kareem posted:Or if you're transgender you obviously had gender reassignment surgery. If not you're just a cross dresser. What Soap dod was pretty progressive, especially for the time, even if it some of it was clumsy. poo poo...I bet a lot of actors wouldn't have even taken the role for the fear of it loving with their career. I still remember hearing "Brokeback Mountain" jokes 30 years later when that came out. Wasn't AITF the first show to ever show a toilet or something?
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Aug 13, 2017 23:11
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Wasn't Daria just a monotone, deadpan foil who was originally invented for commenting on how lame and immature Beavis and Butthead were? That's all I remember about her anyway, so i never found myself too interested and wondered from the start how she could carry a show by herself. What was the deal? She just hated everything and everybody and was real sarcastic about it, right?
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Aug 14, 2017 03:19
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I think it's pretty standard that every sitcom/movie character lives an apartment they can't afford unless it being lovely or glamorous is central to the character. Same with it being unkempt. Otherwise, every apartment is always immaculate.
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Aug 16, 2017 00:29
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54 40 or gently caress posted:That's kind of why Roseanne had aged decently, the family was flawed and their house wasn't crazy glamorous True, but again, the apartment/house is only ever "normal" or "lovely" when it's central to the character. Not really on topic though so sorry.
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Aug 16, 2017 01:13
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stone cold posted:Has anybody mentioned the "classic" gone with the wind bit on the Carol Burnett show? No it didn't.
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Aug 16, 2017 03:41
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I don't think Mama's Family was ever worth a poo poo to begin with but I don't get the hate for The Carol Burnett Show at all.
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Aug 16, 2017 16:54
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54 40 or gently caress posted:Sitcoms are so universally bad. There are very few examples of the formula actually being good. Agree. There's a few that stand the test of time but I honestly can't remember the last sitcom I liked (maybe 30 Rock) and the popularity of poo poo like "Big Bang Theory" and "Two and a Half Men" just loving baffles me.
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Aug 21, 2017 00:22
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Rough Lobster posted:Sam Raimi's Spider-Man isn't a TV show. All righty then. The original late 60's haven't aged worth a poo poo. Some of them are charming and have that unintentional comedy thing going on, but the constantly recycled animations over new backdrops and overall production values make it look like Robert Smigel TV Funhouse (yes, I know Smigel was parodying stuff like that). Biggest thing with those cartoons though was the disparity in tone between the ones Ralph Bakshi did compared with what I considered the "normal" ones that typically took place in NYC Even as a kid I noticed it and loving hated the Bakshi ones because I could never figure out what was going on. Actually, I'm full of poo poo. I love those cartoons (but not the Bakshi ones).
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Sep 1, 2017 18:32
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BioEnchanted posted:Jack Black at least can be charming and funny as a person. I can see that being attractive I guess. Jack Black gets a bit of a bad wrap, I think. Sure, he's rather "one note" but he comes off OK and I love Tenacious D. He seems harmless, rather clear about what he likes and operates within his skill set. I'd hang out with him and I put him pretty low on my "celebrity douchebag" list.
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Sep 1, 2017 23:08
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Inspector Gesicht posted:What is the 00's equivalent of Ally McBeal,? In that it was big at the time, but when it ended it evaporated from memory as if it was never there? I nominate "The Big Bang Theory" but that's more a 2010's thing. I do not get the appeal and popularity of that show at all. "Two and a Half Men" is another one. Stupid garbage.
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Sep 6, 2017 02:56
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Dexie posted:The Big Bang Theory is still ongoing though, it's still big and fresh in people's minds. So much so that it's getting a spin-off show (that's probably going to flop). Don't get it at all. I'd say "Two and Half Men" and "The Big Theory" haven't aged well but, like you said, they're ongoing but always sucked from the beginning to me so probably don't count. I wonder if they'll live on in syndication like Cheers, Taxi, All in the Family or MASH. Who likes this dumb poo poo? I've TRIED to watch it I just posted those two shows in reference to the "Ally McBeal" question, re: forgettable crap that was popular for some reason at one time.
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Sep 6, 2017 03:40
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JacquelineDempsey posted:"McNeal". "Single Female Lawyer", right? Yes, I got it but only because I dated a woman who had named her dog "Allie" and asked her what the name meant. My other friend's dog was named "Xena".
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Sep 6, 2017 21:45
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Krispy Kareem posted:Naming your cat Mrs. Harrison Ford is more unique, but doesn't roll off the tongue as well when you're screaming at her to get off the drapes. I'm just gonna go ahead and name my next pet "Fonzie"
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Sep 6, 2017 22:15
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The Missing Link posted:What's with the shot about Jolly Ranchers at 3:12? I don't get that one. purple death ray posted:I always thought that was a "gay cowboy" joke but it lands so poorly and is such a stretch I've never been 100% sure It was 100% this.
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Sep 7, 2017 18:14
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I don't see where Smithers is some sort of horrible gay stereotype and, really, his portrayal strikes me as sort of ahead of its time. I've known gay men that behave exactly like him. One was even my boss for a while. Probably a lot of TV portrayals will age somewhat poorly though as we progress as a society, much like how even some legendary stand up comics' bits are no longer funny but were for their time. Even HAVING a gay character portrayed in a relatively reasonable light in the late 80's was progress in and of itself. See also, interracial dating/marriages. Nowadays we see Luke Cage drilling Jessica Jones or even a normal interracial gay couple on Six Feet Under (15 years ago) and nobody bats an eye. We're moving in the right direction with this stuff but TV will always lag a bit behind to some degree I think. Probably less so moving forward as content becomes decreasingly dependent on advertising and gets less and less network driven.
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Sep 7, 2017 19:34
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someone awful. posted:imo it's mostly the fact that smithers being gay exists primarily as a punchline which is the problematic thing. like, it pretty much only gets brought up to go "haha, the gay man did a gay thing/made a double entendre" I never took it that way but you may have a point. Again though, that's along the same lines of how the boundaries of humor and "what's funny" evolves over time. See my references to stand up acts a few posts up. HIndsight reveals a lot about where a culture was within a given timeframe. 10 years ago, it was acceptable to call other goons "faggots" and even now people repeatedly refer to this place as a "Dead GAY Comedy Forum" Everybody in the whole loving show is a punchline and the butt of jokes though. I can't think of one character who isn't, actually. Anecdotal, but I had a bi room mate in the mid 90's, am bi myself and had more than one gay friend who all thought Smithers was a riot. Often, his being gay was beside the point and totally inconsequential, taking a backseat to his overall characterization as a brown noser employee and a textbook suck up. Maybe it hasn't aged well though, but I can't recall anything patently offensive about his portrayal. He was rather charming as I remember. However, I stopped watching the Simpsons like 10 years ago so I may be talking out of my rear end. poo poo. If a person were so inclined, they could find 5 or 6 double entendres just in my post, and I didn't even mean to do that but noticed it on a proofread.
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Sep 7, 2017 20:34
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purple death ray posted:The Screensaver thing isn't funny because Smithers wants to have sex with a man, it's funny because a) text to speech programs are inherently funny and b) because of his fixation on this one particular man who is horrible, old, desiccated and treats Smithers like a dog. That's how I took it too and I agree. The joke is also "everyone has been caught in an embarrassing moment when their privacy is accidentally exposed", even if it's just some off center/fetish porn you left in the VCR, a dildo you left out or whatever. For a long time, even buying condoms or lube, renting porn, having an effeminate male or a butchy female friend, owning a vibrator, working a job outside of gender norms or whatever was considered potentially embarrassing and Smithers is largely portrayed as not only closeted but also equally as flawed and as funny as every other character, with his own hang ups, etc. In the late 80's and through the 90's, everybody had that person (or people) that they knew or worked with that everyone suspected of being gay and, back then, concealing it and remaining closeted was the norm. I think the show reflected that. I don't even think Smithers was all that sexually attracted to Burns so much as his money, his power and the whole "Daddy/Sub" sort of thing that still goes on and always has. Just HAVING Smithers at all was progressive as hell back then; less than ten years after Murphy, Kinison and Dice rose to superstardom making fun of fags. I think he's aged well, at least in as much as his portrayal is accurate to the societal norms of the time and, in many ways, ahead of it.
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Sep 7, 2017 20:50
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someone awful. posted:writing comedy that ages well seems like an intensely difficult thing to do, and i don't envy anyone whose job is to try This is a really, really good point and a subject that fascinates me. It's hard to be topical and current, which is usually where humor resides and resonates, without having it rendered stale and tired 10 years later. I love Pryor, Kinison, Murphy...even some of Dice...and SO MUCH of their poo poo wouldn't play today; like AT ALL. Carlin, Red Foxx and Bruce did a lot of gay jokes too (and Lenny was bi I think) but context is everything; which I suppose is the point of the thread. All in the Family, SOAP, Maude and Cheers all tacked homosexuality back in their day, with mixed results, but even DOING IT ALL was brave and way outside the norm in the time they were aired. I remember "Dog Day Afternoon" in 1975 and recently watched a documentary about it where one concern was finding an actor willing to play a gay man since so many actors were scared of doing it, so they got Pacino since he would be "accepted". I remember the jokes about Ned Beatty from "Deliverance", jokes about "The Crying Game", friends of mine who refused to buy Prince's "Lovesexy" album solely becasue of the cover and even catching poo poo from people for going to "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" in the early 80's. Rednecks would drive by the theater and taunt us. gently caress. I'm writing too much about this subject but I guess it's becasue it hits so close to home for me and struggled for years with my sexuality. SMithers is OK by me.
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Sep 7, 2017 21:04
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JacquelineDempsey posted:As someone else who struggled with their sexuality and only had TV/movies/books to guide me into thinking about it positively (thanks, ultra-conservative preacher step-dad!), I find this a pretty interesting subject, perhaps worthy of its own thread. But where to put it? ASK/TELL? There's probably something on e/n but those thread tend to suck
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Sep 7, 2017 22:04
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TwoDogs1Cup posted:You know reading this thread more it's interesting how many of the crude gay and trans joke I never noticed. Like I've watched all the shows mentioned, but the jokes just didn't register with me as offensive. Which is probably because I'm straight and never dealt with jokes or issues on the matter first hand Nah, you made perfect sense. I was the same way for years and long before I realized/admitted I was bi, never stopped to consider how how seemingly offhanded "jokes' and comments me and my friends made might have affected my room mate, who was obviously insecure, closeted and conflicted. We didn't MEAN any malice or ill harm, we just thought were being funny. When he came out to me after knowing him for 7 years, I didn't care at all but he probably THOUGHT I did, probably primarily due to a lot of the jokes I'd made. Live and learn I guess. TV is getting much MUCH better at handling these issues but will ALWAYS be behind the curve so I just give credit to stuff that even tries to tackle this poo poo, even if they miss the mark sometimes. When they do it's usually within the parlance of our times though and largely calculated on the mean level of what society can handle or tolerate. SIx Feet Under featured not only a gay couple, but a biracial gay couple in a very sympathetic, empathetic, well written and even handed way. And that was 16 loving years ago. We're making progress and I think most of what we see is reflected in TV as opposed to them ever leading the way. Conservatives might argue and largely due since they confuse causation with correlations so willingly and blame entertainment for normalizing sin (from rock and roll to film to comics), but realize, for instance, who on this forum is afraid or ashamed of being gay, bi, trans or dating "outside their race"? And who wouldn't dogpile on someone anyone who said any of those things were bad? We're making these things simply unacceptable, gradually educating folks about what's no longer cool or funny and adapting as we learn more about empathy. We're getting there.
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Sep 7, 2017 22:56
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well why not posted:I think it's interesting how Oz & The Wire tackled "masculine" homosexuality in the dark ages of the late 90s, early 2000s. How has "OZ" aged? I never watched it. Loved The Wire and Omar loving owned.
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Sep 7, 2017 23:05
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Inescapable Duck posted:Also kinda funny given he's been around long enough there's Trump parodies from long before he started dabbling in politics. I'd say he's moved well beyond "dabbling", dude.
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Sep 15, 2017 23:03
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ReidRansom posted:I don't want to excuse any Nazis, but ... Probably best to stop right there I think.
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Sep 18, 2017 01:28
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Krispy Wafer posted:And I never 'got' Seinfeld. These people were horrible individuals. Seinfeld has aged really well for the most part. The entire concept of the show was finding humor in the most mundane, every day things that people do, obsess over and get wrapped in and it was very good at it. I never even watched it until it got syndicated and only stopped because I'd seen them all but it was good, and I don't even really like Jerry Seinfeld that much as a stand up. I also don't get the hot new take on BB and Walter White not having a character arc or evolving (or devolving) because he most certainly did. The thing that people who say "he was always an rear end in a top hat" are missing is that, even if that's true, the fact that he was diagnosed with a death sentence gave him a "what have I got to lose" mindset and got him wondering why he'd wasted so much time playing it safe and following rules and poo poo just to leave his family dead broke. I definitely got his arc and saw a transformation. I think the reason that people often find him largely sympathetic relates to the idea of risk taking versus playing it safe, "what are you good at?" and "what would you do if you only had 6 months to live?" type of existential questions that we all face. It's easy to be brave when most of us aren't and knowing you're going to die anyway makes it easier to take huge risks. Yeah, he was stupid about it but he was also the BEST drug manufacturer in the country. I got it anyway.
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Sep 30, 2017 19:56
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