|
On August 21st, 1992, United States Marshals began scouting a remote Idaho cabin not far from the Canadian border. The events that would follow would shock the country and give energy to movements both well-intentioned and evil. The shockwaves from Ruby Ridge can be felt everywhere from the defense at Confederate monuments, to the election of Donald Trump, to anti-government protests both Left and Right. It is probably the single most important American political event of the 1990s. It revitalized the right wing, the defense of the second amendment, the fear of government overreach, the militia movement, white nationalists, anti-globalists, and more. Inside that cabin was the Marshals' target, a paranoid and religious alleged white nationalist named Randy Weaver, as well as his wife, children, a family friend, and their dogs. Weaver and his family had moved into seclusion after his wife Vicki's religious visions urged them to remove themselves from a fallen, corrupted world. Weaver was charged with violation of the National Firearms Act after allegedly purchasing a sawed-off shotgun from a government informant (allegations that he was a bank robber were later revealed to be completely bogus), but had failed to show for trial after it was rescheduled and he was mistakenly sent the wrong date. Attempts over the preceding year to bring Weaver in peacefully had been unsuccessful, and the botched trial and ongoing attempts at surveillance only amplified his family's sense of being unjustly under siege.   As the six Marshals, heavily armed and kitted in camouflage and night vision goggles, approached the cabin and waited to ambush Weaver, one threw a rock to gauge the reaction of the dogs. As they started barking, Weaver's friend Kevin Harris and Weaver's 14 year old son Samuel exited the cabin with rifles to investigate, apparently saying aloud they believed the dogs to be alerting to the presence of an animal they might hunt for food. The Marshals stealthily retreated, and Sam, Kevin, and the dog followed the source of the noise about 500 meters, to a Y-shaped fork in the trails. Here the stories diverge. According to the Marshals, they identified themselves to the pair; Harris then allegedly shot and killed a Marshal, and in the return fire the Marshals killed Sammy and the dog in self defense. Harris' account of the event is different: he alleged that the dog ran up to a Marshal and began bouncing around in a friendly manner, at which point the Marshal shot and killed the dog in front of the 14 year old boy. At this point Sammy yelled "You shot my dog, you son of a bitch" and began shooting at the Marshals. Regardless of whether a man with no warrants opened fire on identified law enforcement officers, or if cops killed a dog for no reason, the firefight ended with Deputy US Marshal Bill Degan mortally wounded and Sammy Weaver dead of a gunshot to the back. Harris fled back to the cabin, with Randy and Vicki Weaver returning to retrieve their son's body after the Marshals retreated.   Following the firefight at the trails, the Idaho governor declared a state of emergency, and state and federal law enforcement mobilized dramatically. The FBI, ATF, and Marshals were determined to avenge the death of Bill Degan and display a strong show of force, both to the Weavers and to anti-government types. The FBI drafted rules of engagement specifying that any armed adult seen on the property was to be taken out with deadly force, which were later famously described as "virtual shoot on sight" orders during the Senate investigation. On August 22nd, with scope of the siege expanding, FBI sniper teams were deployed as Federal law enforcement awaited the arrival of specialized hostage negotiators. In the early afternoon of the 22nd, Randy Weaver, his 16 year old daughter Sara, and Harris exited the cabin and made his way a small nearby shed, to visit the body of his son Sammy. As Weaver was undoing the latch, FBI sniper Lon Horiuchi shot him in the back from 200 yards. As the trio attempted to run back through the cabin door, Horiuchi fired again. This bullet struck his wife Vicki in the head, as she clutched their 10 month old daughter, and killed her instantly. Several hours later, a police robot approached the cabin and announced the execution of the warrant against Randy Weaver; the family alleged this was the first point at which they learned their assailants were law enforcement.   For 10 more days, Weaver, his daughters, and Harris remained in the cabin with Vicki's body, as 400 Federal law enforcement officers taunted them from afar. Later claiming that they were unaware of her death, the officers exhorted on megaphones for Vicki to come out and have "blueberry pancakes" for breakfast, even informally naming their emplacement "Camp Vicki" after her. As news spread, protestors from around the country appeared, some furious at the Feds actions, some hoping to see what was happening for themselves. On August 31st, Randy Weaver surrendered to civilian anti-government activist Bo Gritz.    In the aftermath, the colossal mismanagement of the operation vindicated Weaver and spurred a massive federal investigation. Charged with a litany of offenses stemming from the incident, he was eventually acquited of all charges except missing his original court date. It was revealed that from the early days of the siege, FBI officials were skeptical of the original charges, the early behavior of Marshals, the rules of engagement, and nearly every aspect of how the operation was run. Lon Horiuchi was indicted for manslaughter for his second shot; the charges were dismissed based of sovereign immunity, as his actions were consistent with the rules of engagement drawn up by agents of the federal government. In a settlement, the federal government awarded over 2 million dollars to Weaver and his daughters. The shame of Ruby Ridge, and the desire to project a strong face in the aftermath of the national dressing-down, was a strong motivator for the later ATF and FBI aggression at Waco, and likely contributed to the tragic outcome of that standoff. 
walgreenslatino fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Aug 21, 2017 |
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 20:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 21:14 |
|
|
I want to vote for both options op
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 21:03
|
|
|
I should have gone with the checkbox poll 
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 21:06
|
|
|
walgreenslatino posted:I should have gone with the checkbox poll really should have
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 21:07
|
|
|
WatermelonGun posted:I want to vote for both options op walgreenslatino posted:I should have gone with the checkbox poll yeah word
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 21:08
|
|
|
walgreenslatino posted:In a settlement, the federal government awarded over 2 million dollars to Weaver and his daughters. The shame of Ruby Ridge, and the desire to project a strong face in the aftermath of the national dressing-down, was a strong motivator for the later ATF and FBI aggression at Waco, and likely contributed to the tragic outcome of that standoff. And yet the police can blow away unarmed black people left and right and the Weaver sympathizers don't say poo poo about it. White lives matter! / 
Hobologist fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Aug 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 21:47
|
|
|
im glad the racist guys wife and kid got pwnd and only wish he got pwnd too
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 21:52
|
|
|
Nooner posted:im glad the racist guys wife and kid got pwnd and only wish he got pwnd too
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 21:57
|
|
|
kill em all and let allah sort em out!
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 21:57
|
|
|
This was informative as hell and a good post. There's a documentary on Netflix about Ruby Ridge I've been meaning to watch for months. Thanks for the primer.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 21:57
|
|
|
This, Waco and Oklahoma City are exactly why the Bundy clan was allowed to parade around with guns and get away with most of it because of jury nullification
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 21:59
|
|
|
Lol Oregon sucks
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:00
|
|
|
Hobologist posted:And yet the police can blow away unarmed black people left and right and the Weaver sympathizers doesn't say poo poo about it. White lives matter! I can't really tell what level of irony you're operating at, but yes it's absolutely ignored by large subsets of the militia, freeman, and anti-government movements. Lots of the right-wing conspiracy movements really identify black people and the government as being part of one sort of nebulous entity. If you read pretty much any of the 10,000 identical far-right wing fantasy novels written in the wake of The Turner Diaries(check out TFR there's a couple hilarious read-throughs of these books in the back pages), you'll know the gist. Black people are a tool used by the NWO to kill or displace white citizens, thus the shooting of unarmed blacks is not the same to them. Since 9/11 there's really been a start to a dramatic change in the dynamic of many of these movements. It got worse in the ensuing decade. People and groups that were virulently anti-police in the 90s are now defenders of the "thin blue line." It's interesting how the state has co-opted even its most ardent critics. walgreenslatino fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Aug 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:00
|
|
|
VikingSkull posted:This, Waco and Oklahoma City are exactly why the Bundy clan was allowed to parade around with guns and get away with most of it because of jury nullification remember when they livestreamed that dude crashing his truck into a roadblock and then got turned into swiss cheese lol
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:00
|
|
|
Chinatown posted:remember when they livestreamed that dude crashing his truck into a roadblock and then got turned into swiss cheese lol I made the thread about it and then trolled all the loony youtube channels for like a month lmao
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:02
|
|
|
walgreenslatino posted:
and both of them are thought to be the key reasons that mcveigh did the Oklahoma city bombing, his alternative plan even being taking out the sniper that killed Vicki.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:13
|
|
|
Did they set up a registry for anniversary gifts?
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:15
|
|
|
Douchebags got what was coming to them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:19
|
|
|
tsa posted:and both of them are thought to be the key reasons that mcveigh did the Oklahoma city bombing, his alternative plan even being taking out the sniper that killed Vicki. Exactly. Horiuchi was at Waco also; in early reports and statements, prior to alleged "coverups" and retractions, he was the one who starting firing at the Branch Davidians.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:22
|
|
|
fuk the po-lice!!!!
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:24
|
|
|
Yeah everyone involved is pretty terrible, except for the kids who couldn't help being raised by people with poo poo ideas.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:25
|
|
|
tsa posted:and both of them are thought to be the key reasons that mcveigh did the Oklahoma city bombing, his alternative plan even being taking out the sniper that killed Vicki. walgreenslatino posted:Exactly. Horiuchi was at Waco also; in early reports and statements, prior to alleged "coverups" and retractions, he was the one who starting firing at the Branch Davidians. both of these are loving nuts to me, I was too young to really follow either event as they happened and this thread is probably the most reading I've done on Ruby Ridge
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:26
|
|
|
It's important to consider Weaver's alleged involvement in white nationalist causes. He denied it, was not active in any movements and was generally reclusive. Then as now, lots of assorted groups and individuals with disparate goals mingled. He certainly had contacts in an "Aryan" group, as he learned from a white nationalist that the person who allegedly sold him a sawed-off shotgun was an informant. The motivator for Weaver's pursuit by law enforcement was his alleged purchasing of an NFA firearm and not involvement in white supremacy. It's unclear if anyone ever actually believed the phony charge that he robbed banks The actual start of the entire incident was when the ATF attempted to force Weaver to also turn informant. Weaver refused, and the ATF filed charges in response to his lack of cooperation.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:34
|
|
|
these militia types are worse than the feds lol
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:38
|
|
|
ArmZ posted:these militia types are worse than the feds lol
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:42
|
|
|
MeatwadIsGod posted:This was informative as hell and a good post. There's a documentary on Netflix about Ruby Ridge I've been meaning to watch for months. Thanks for the primer. It's a surprisingly good documentary. walgreenslatino posted:It's important to consider Weaver's alleged involvement in white nationalist causes. He denied it, was not active in any movements and was generally reclusive. Then as now, lots of assorted groups and individuals with disparate goals mingled. He certainly had contacts in an "Aryan" group, as he learned from a white nationalist that the person who allegedly sold him a sawed-off shotgun was an informant. The motivator for Weaver's pursuit by law enforcement was his alleged purchasing of an NFA firearm and not involvement in white supremacy. It's unclear if anyone ever actually believed the phony charge that he robbed banks The documentary tells this slightly differently. In the documentary, they say that Weaver sawed off a couple of shotguns for Aryan Nations members as a favour (he was extremely reclusive but had contact with them occasionally due to their compound where they held events being in the same general area) and that's what gave the ATF leverage to try to make him their pawn - and that they then filed charges when he refused to co-operate. He was more of a white separatist than a white nationalist, and the decision to move his family to the mountain had a lot to do with believing the Apocalypse was nigh. The AN had a different set of bizarre "end times" beliefs. Lolie fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Aug 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:44
|
|
|
ArmZ posted:these militia types are worse than the feds lol you'd think so, but then the feds somehow rise to the challenge
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:44
|
|
|
ArmZ posted:these militia types are worse than the feds lol 
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:46
|
|
|
gimme the GOD drat candy posted:you'd think so, but then the feds somehow rise to the challenge
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:52
|
|
|
Lolie posted:It's a surprisingly good documentary. I think that prior to the siege a grand jury threw out the charges of manufacturing and selling NFA items, but kept the charge of possessing them
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:54
|
|
|
walgreenslatino posted:On August 21st, 1992, United States Marshals killed some peeps, but, it turned out, they were white.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:54
|
|
|
I like how in the family photo that they show multiple times on that Oklahoma City Bombing documentary to portray this guy as a nice down to earth family man has the dude wearing a "Just Say No to ZOG" t-shirt. Just sitting on the couch chilling in the anti-semitic t-shirt. Just a normal and regular family man.
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:56
|
|
|
yeah as much as i like the idea of the feds feeding some milita types some lead salad, sniping someone from a tree because they happened to be carrying a rifle is Too Much Man!
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:57
|
|
|
maskenfreiheit posted:yeah as much as i like the idea of the feds feeding some milita types some lead salad, sniping someone from a tree because they happened to be carrying a rifle is Too Much Man!* *only applies if white
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:59
|
|
|
maskenfreiheit posted:yeah as much as i like the idea of the feds feeding some milita types some lead salad, sniping someone from a tree because they happened to be carrying a rifle is Too Much Man!
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 22:59
|
|
|
This was an interesting read, I'd heard of the incident dozens of times but never bothered to actually read up about it. Thank you, OP
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 23:21
|
|
|
walgreenslatino posted:I think that prior to the siege a grand jury threw out the charges of manufacturing and selling NFA items, but kept the charge of possessing them That's my recollection, too. For those who haven't seen the documentary, the insane extent of the overkill becomes apparent when you realise that there were 450 agents on the scene as things unfolded (this wasn't a fortified compound full of dozens of people, either) and that control of the operation passed through three different agencies. maskenfreiheit posted:yeah as much as i like the idea of the feds feeding some milita types some lead salad, sniping someone from a tree because they happened to be carrying a rifle is Too Much Man! That had to do with the rules of engagement (by the time that happened, the FBI was running the show), which came out during the official inquiry. A US Marshall had already been killed prior to that. quote:Special rules of engagement (ROE) were drafted and approved by FBI Headquarters and the Marshal Service for use on Ruby Ridge.[88] According to the later RRTF report to the DOJ (1994), the Ruby Ridge ROE were as follows: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge#Special_ROE_and_sniper.2Fobserver_deployment Lolie fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Aug 21, 2017 |
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 23:29
|
|
|
One of the SWAT teams saw the RoE and were like "yeah, gently caress you we aren't executing people for you" You know you hosed up when a SWAT team thinks you're overreaching
|
|
#
?
Aug 21, 2017 23:40
|
|
|
I'm not American so had never heard of this prior till now but have heard of the stuff it might have influenced (WACO, Oklahoma City bombing). It was a really cool read. Thanks OP, good posts, good thread.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2017 00:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 21:14 |
|
|
The backlash to the federal government blowing it at Ruby Ridge and Waco is also what gave us Alex Jones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgJbsraMdDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FyDF2wllSc
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2017 00:24
|
|
