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twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?

Queer coding villains is really common among older stuff, and a lot of it just got baked into the characters so you still see it today.

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tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??


Fun Shoe

twistedmentat posted:

Queer coding villains is really common among older stuff, and a lot of it just got baked into the characters so you still see it today.

Was it, though?

I'm genuinely asking. Full disclosure: I am not a fan of the comics. Of any comics, really, other than The Tick, and I only have read the original series of that one. Not because I think comics are dumb, but because I just never got into them as a kid. So, I am curious as to what you're talking about here.

Is this "queer-coding" literal, in that they're actually queer characters? Or is it more suggestive, like "hey, that green, skin-tight outfit with question marks all over it sure looks a little queer", and there's little to no proper evidence that said characters are actually queer?

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?

It's more like, they have stereotypical gay attributes, like they're often flamboyantly and impeccably dressed, have a certain way to speaking, or they have very precious and delicate movements. Or there's straight up acting in a way that implies they have homosexual urges.

Disney villains are a great example. Look at how Scar in The Lion King minces around and essentially has limp wristed paw movements. Another good one are many Bond Villains. Bloefeld and his prissy behavior and his cat, or the Assassians in Diamonds are Forever, which are pretty much as close to openly gay as you could get in the past.

A good comic related one is how every evil woman that the X-men encounters pretty much wants to gently caress Kitty Pryde. Not explicitly on page, but its sure as hell
implied as much as the Comics Code would allow. Whether that was Claremonts kink or trying to make a villain seem more evil is debatable.

All of this stems from the codes that were in place, as I mentioned the Comics Code and the Hays Code for movies.

This is all to contrast with the manly and totally not gay heroes. You know James Bond is gonna gently caress at the end, and it will be a woman.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

Booyah


The mirror universe in Star Trek, especially DS9, has everyone turn both evil and into a leather clad bisexual dominatrix.




I'm also thinking of Him from Powerpuff Girls

NowonSA
Jul 19, 2013

I am the sexiest poster in the world!


Yeah I agree that queer-coding was a thing in a lot of media for quite awhile and I'm sure it goes on to some extent today, I just never really thought about it until you pointed out those examples.

I mean, Him I noticed, because c'mon, but usually it's more subtle.

I feel like you can be way more open about it now, but that causes it's own issues because you open yourself to a negative response if you make a "bad" character like a comic book or movie villain gay, but from my point of view if it fits the character I'm fine with it, and it seems more inclusive than offensive to me since it shows that they're people just like the "normal" straight folks and people can be awesome or they can be really freakin' terrible.

Obviously that specific situation really comes down to the portrayal and writing of the character and it's entirely possible to be straight-up offensive when you go that route, but there are times when I read outrage about something online and I just think there's not really anything wrong, or that yeah it's not ideal but that I've seen way worse. I do get where they're coming from though because until recently when queerness wasn't coded it was attached to villainy like 60% of the time and over the top stereotypes the other 40%, and that had to be really lame to endure.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?

Disney based Ursula on Divine, so I never knew what to make of that. You can have a villain that's gay, and that's just part of who they are like they're blond or whatever. They might want to destroy the Camden Yards, but its not because they're gay. Though you can also have being gay be a part of what makes them so evil. Baron Harkonnen in Dune is straight up gay, and its shown to be part of his extreme hedonistic personality. It also how the hero reacts to it. De Silva in Skyfall makes a pass at Bond and Bonds all "yea so? Not my first time" and that kind of cuts off De Silva right there.

It also seems way more acceptable to have women who are bisexual than men. I know this is because straight dudes are totally into chicks who make out with other chicks but they know they might get some too.


The Bloop posted:

The mirror universe in Star Trek, especially DS9, has everyone turn both evil and into a leather clad bisexual dominatrix.




I'm also thinking of Him from Powerpuff Girls

Yea, like WTF was with that? I mean I'm sure Visitor had fun playing Mirror Kira, because it always seens to be fun for actors to just chew the scenery and let loose their inner ham, but it certainly associates being bisexual with being predatory.

is Him the devil in PPG?

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

Booyah


twistedmentat posted:


is Him the devil in PPG?

Yeah.

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McTimmy
Feb 29, 2008


Nobody ever stays dead in Gotham!

TheLoneStar
Feb 9, 2017



McTimmy posted:

Nobody ever stays dead in Gotham!
Or if you're important enough to the plot you just go into a coma from a clean headshot. Total bullshit but not the first time she show's done dumb poo poo like that.

Glad we're gonna get a Jerome episode next week considering how much they teased him with zero payoff so far.

Faustian Bargain
Apr 12, 2014



This show is just so wonderfully brutal and off the rails

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?

Uh so....wtf with Babs there? She gaining the power of the White Lantern or something?

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?




”So long, Sophia.. Have a good trip. Maybe you can handle yourself one of them first class tickets to the resurrection.”

Gonz fucked around with this message at Mar 23, 2018 around 07:32

Nameless Pete
May 8, 2007

Get a load of those...

twistedmentat posted:

Uh so....wtf with Babs there? She gaining the power of the White Lantern or something?

Remember that one episode of Batman Beyond where Talia al Ghul shows up, but it's actually Ra's' mind inside her body as a last ditch effort to avoid the grave? And it's a little weird because "she" kissed Bruce before David Warner's voice started coming out of her?

Exactly that, and I couldn't be more excited.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



Nameless Pete posted:

Remember that one episode of Batman Beyond where Talia al Ghul shows up, but it's actually Ra's' mind inside her body as a last ditch effort to avoid the grave? And it's a little weird because "she" kissed Bruce before David Warner's voice started coming out of her?

Exactly that, and I couldn't be more excited.

That's exactly what I thought.

It was hilarious that Sophia got shot in the loving head and is in a coma. Although seeing as that exact same thing happened to Butch last season it isn't too weird.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?

Nameless Pete posted:

Remember that one episode of Batman Beyond where Talia al Ghul shows up, but it's actually Ra's' mind inside her body as a last ditch effort to avoid the grave? And it's a little weird because "she" kissed Bruce before David Warner's voice started coming out of her?

Exactly that, and I couldn't be more excited.

Holy crap I forgot about that. I hope she does that with Gordon but Siddig's voice comes out of her.

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006

Shepard.


College Slice

I mean...is no one going to mention Mr. Pen’s “therapy”? What other show on television would even think to have something like that?

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?

Was that Therapy? I assumed he was just into adult baby stuff.

Grinning Goblin
Oct 11, 2004



Phylodox posted:

I mean...is no one going to mention Mr. Pen’s “therapy”? What other show on television would even think to have something like that?

Probably an SVU episode did that.

Pan Dulce
Jan 4, 2011

Beautiful cinnamon roll too good for this world, too pure


twistedmentat posted:

Was that Therapy? I assumed he was just into adult baby stuff.



I wish they would have taken the headshot as a finisher and just called it the death of Sophia Falcone, but it's Gotham, no one ever dies here.

DarklyDreaming
Apr 4, 2009

Welcome to Disney XD Everyone!

Grinning Goblin posted:

Probably an SVU episode did that.

Also an episode of Bob's Burgers had Bob find out Jimmy Pesto was into that sort of thing, but they didn't show it onscreen.

Kin
Nov 4, 2003

Sometimes, in a city this dirty, you need a real hero.


I'm guessing at this point they're unofficially backtracking on Jerome not being the Joker?

It would be a massive troll at this point to bait and switch this hard.

To be honest I was half expecting that bleach to end up playing a part in turning his skin white this episode.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

sorry doesn't bring
me back to life, Hal.


Tetch is the worst.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Okay, David Mazouz is the best Bruce we've had.

twistedmentat
Nov 21, 2003

What's a war hero got to do to get some lubrication around here?

Rhyno posted:

Tetch is the worst.

He really is. As I said when he was the main villain, he is the kind of villain hack writers thinks his clever, because everything being a rhyme means they're smart! The Mad Hatter is also just a terrible character as he's left over from the golden age when bad comic books just adapted existing public domain works.

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

sorry doesn't bring
me back to life, Hal.


It also does not help that Benedict Samuel is a garbage tier actor.

Lord Cyrahzax
Oct 11, 2012



Him dropping that wrecking ball on the married couple got a full laugh of me, though

Open Source Idiom
Jan 4, 2013


Did they ever explain why he has it out for mixed race couples?

It's my favourite bizarre joke on the show -- because it's completely inexplicable, before anyone jumps on me.

VictorianQueerLit
Aug 25, 2017

by R. Guyovich


Also when did he acquire hypnotism superpowers?

He originally had to actually hypnotize people and spent a good long time trying to convince Gordon to jump off of a roof. Now after hearing ten random words Bullock is pre-programmed with elaborate conditioning about jumping off of a roof at a specific time and refusing to save himself.

Being able to hypnotize people into doing murders or whatever was at least plausible but now just hearing his voice period apparently lets him control your mind.

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

Booyah


Arkham is a supervillain factory





Maybe they should stop sending people there

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006

Shepard.


College Slice

VictorianQueerLit posted:

Being able to hypnotize people into doing murders or whatever was at least plausible but now just hearing his voice period apparently lets him control your mind.

Okay, I think I've found your problem, here...

VictorianQueerLit
Aug 25, 2017

by R. Guyovich


What? an evil hypnotist is an alright premise for a bad guy and he used the watch and everything at the start. His first victim was done during an actual hypnotism during a show and getting Gordon to jump off of a building was a pretty elaborate affair.

That, to me, is way more plausible than

"Hickory dickory dock. The clock......"
*immediately attacks someone and runs up to a roof ready to execute a set of instructions*

The Bloop
Jul 5, 2004

Booyah


Indian Hill radioactive Lazarus Water changed his DNA with ancient Chinese magic.


OK!? GOT IT!?

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006

Shepard.


College Slice

VictorianQueerLit posted:

That, to me, is way more plausible than

You’re going to keep running into this wall if you’re not careful.

TheLoneStar
Feb 9, 2017



VictorianQueerLit posted:

What? an evil hypnotist is an alright premise for a bad guy and he used the watch and everything at the start. His first victim was done during an actual hypnotism during a show and getting Gordon to jump off of a building was a pretty elaborate affair.

That, to me, is way more plausible than

"Hickory dickory dock. The clock......"
*immediately attacks someone and runs up to a roof ready to execute a set of instructions*
Yeah, I was thinking that too. Now all he has to do is rhyme at people and they'll do whatever he says.

GigaPeon
Apr 29, 2003

Go, man, go!

Zsasz's guy is playing a quirky hitman on HBO's Barry if you're into that kinda thing.

Cryohazard
Feb 5, 2010


Coining the name BarbaRa's.

Burning_Monk
Jan 11, 2005
Mad, Bad, and Dangerous to know

VictorianQueerLit posted:

What? an evil hypnotist is an alright premise for a bad guy and he used the watch and everything at the start. His first victim was done during an actual hypnotism during a show and getting Gordon to jump off of a building was a pretty elaborate affair.

That, to me, is way more plausible than

"Hickory dickory dock. The clock......"
*immediately attacks someone and runs up to a roof ready to execute a set of instructions*

They need to go back to having his victims wear mind-control caps, like he mainly does in the comics and animated series. Easy foil is just remove the hat the victim is wearing and you can kinda tell who is under his influence because they never take off the hat they are wearing.

This magic hypnotism is the worst for all the reason you said. Not to mention he can do mass hypnotism apparently and that's not the worst thing ever in history which it should be.

Burning_Monk fucked around with this message at Apr 2, 2018 around 19:31

TheLoneStar
Feb 9, 2017



Like there's literally no reason why Tetch shouldn't be ruling the entire planet right now. 'Cause apparently all he needs to do is blurt out a nursery rhyme at you and you'll do whatever he wants. He just needs to hijack a couple of radio stations or a big television station and get like, 95% of America under his thumb in about a day.

Phylodox
Mar 30, 2006

Shepard.


College Slice

Because Tetch is an idiot.

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Barreft
Jul 21, 2014

A stallion like me only comes around once a year.

Phylodox posted:

Because Tetch is an idiot.

Yeah he's a lunatic. Gotham is one those shows I apply no common sense to and it makes it much better.

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