(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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have you tried dabbing
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Jul 22, 2019 11:03
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 19:29 |
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Kurnugia posted:Well there are plenty of things behind this current conflict (both sides, lack of lube choices,etc) but my question was; why are the protestors demanding universal suffrage based on a parliamentary model? why is that the only possible solution, the only possible system, the only form of government being demanded, as a solution to your conflicts with the mainlanders? whatever the factors standing behind the conflict be, the protests still seem to me, to be mostly about enforcing the western parliamentary form of government The protesters are basically asking for a "idealized parliamentery" system. Nevermind that UK local government like Northern Ireland still get direct ruled whenever the local parties can't form a government. Also, somebody is not going to like to hear this, NI earned their degree of autonomy thru decades of arm rebellions. Hong Kongers have earned nothing. Weekend protests is not going to work, not with CCP government, nor with a Thatcher government, or any Tory government. quote:er, ok. if i had some miracle of a solution, i'd tell you. i dont have a solution. what im sure of tho, is if you keep escalating your conflict and protests with the sole demand of implementing a western parliamentary system, CCP is not going to accept. they will escalate in turn, hire thugs, beat people. it's not going to end well for you The CCP has already seen the HK protesters cards. They know Hong Kongers don't have the stomach for violence. So really the protests are elaborate rituals to "hurt beijing's face". There is no end game. Just send the HK police to do the dirty jobs and muddle along is
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Jul 22, 2019 11:45
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escalation of violence is getting there , organically slowly
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Jul 22, 2019 12:07
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and idea parliamentary system is not loving earned. we had it before the hand over and it’s guaranteed in the basic law. gently caress you
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Jul 22, 2019 12:44
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caberham posted:and idea parliamentary system is not loving earned. Typical Hong Konger mindset who is not self conscious about the world history.
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Jul 22, 2019 12:53
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There are mainlanders in China fighting for democracy and have it much worse. And there are mainlanders that move to Hong Kong, and want the same thing. For calling us not worldly you are the one who doesn’t know what’s happening here and miss all the details when it comes to the intricacies between the ruling class, the elites, and the CCP.
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Jul 22, 2019 13:07
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It's almost as if tankies like strongman dictatorships instead of letting the people have their say
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Jul 22, 2019 15:22
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LMAO. "The Chinese government was always going to violently suppress your protests anyway, so you should just give up" I didn't expect the pro-PRC posters to shed all of their pretensions to ideological or moral rightness and just beeline straight for the might makes right argument. The moniker "tankie" turned out to be way more literally applicable than I expected.
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Jul 22, 2019 15:28
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Are there actually pro PRC posters here? A friend of mine is currently in a jail in Guangdong on suspicion of corruption, he has been there for almost a year now with no recourse to a lawyer, no trial, no charges brought, and with no way for his family to even call him, let alone visit. Pretty sure this kind of legal "system" (not sure if "we do whatever the gently caress we want" is much of a system) is what HK'ers are afraid of. If I was a HK citizen you bet I'd be out there on the streets too.
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Jul 22, 2019 16:37
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I still don't understand these protests end game. They want democracy okay, but terms of what? Do they want to be in a special district in China where they actually vote for their politicians? Do they want to break away from China and become their own country?Rabelais D posted:Are there actually pro PRC posters here? punk rebel ecks has issued a correction as of 16:45 on Jul 22, 2019 |
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Jul 22, 2019 16:42
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Rabelais D posted:Are there actually pro PRC posters here? There are. Depending on who you ask though, it varies with levels of Pro-PRC-ness as to who think who's actually going full tankie and who isn't, but there are Mods who'll seemingly give more benefit of the doubt to pro-PRC stuff than anti-PRC stuff. Not without good reason per se, but  what's real and what's not sometimes.
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Jul 22, 2019 16:57
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Rabelais D posted:Are there actually pro PRC posters here? It's ultimately a pretty localized protest over a pretty specific local grievance that doesn't have much resonance with anyone outside of HK who might be in a position to do something. The western media portrays every single thing that happens in a non-western country as another color revolution because that's what gets eyeballs on websites or whatever. To the extent that the protesters have a unified grievance, it's hardly a color revolution, the Chinese authorities are not treating it as a color revolution, or some kind of CIA orchestrated coup or whatever, just a localized "incident" of which there are plenty of everywhere in China all the time, so they've left it for the local authorities to deal with. Apparently the local authorities are not dealing with it terribly well, so they should probably start looking for new jobs, but what all this is really driving home is how unimportant Hong Kong has become to China. I can see that 10 years ago a protest of this scale might have elicited a more proactive response. Today it's just "oh unruly Hong Kongers are rioting again over some pissant issue or other, big deal who cares".
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Jul 22, 2019 17:15
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tankies? tankies! tankorinoes. tankats. tanktichrist. a tank called quest. tankikong. tankalongs. tankilliducios!
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Jul 22, 2019 17:25
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just bring back the qing
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Jul 22, 2019 18:11
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I'm pro-PRC in the sense that I am a Marxist who prefers a unified, socialist China over the country being destroyed and Balkanized like the European socialist states. Like I troll the libs but tbh the modern CCP is pretty far removed from what I expect of a leftist party. They allowed a new bourgeoisie to form and infiltrate their ranks (notice for all of Xi Jinping's talk of renewed socialism, he never mentions class war), they are socially regressive, the treatment of the Uighurs, though exaggerated by Western propaganda, is unacceptable, and they have abandoned international revolution even rhetorically. Still, the party has a left wing who, though not dominant, never abandoned Maoism and who have at least prevented a further slide towards liberalization. A country where Marx is read in schools and where the expectation of socialism is set by the leaders is more likely to build a proletarian society than one where class consciousness is non existent. It will take a second Cultural Revolution to clear out the chaff and send the Jack Ma's to prison. A powerful China also serves as a counterweight to Amerikkkan hegemony, which is vital as the US is the greatest force of destabilization and terror in the third world and the greatest obstacle to socialism.
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Jul 22, 2019 18:47
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Goast posted:just bring back the qing Weird to see a Manchukuo supporter in this day and age.
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Jul 22, 2019 18:53
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Goast posted:just bring back the qing Yuan Shikai Did Nothing Wrong
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Jul 22, 2019 19:02
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broke: bring back the Qing woke: bring back the Taiping Tianguo
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Jul 22, 2019 19:08
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its time to restore taiwan and the lost yuan dynasty territories to the fold, including mongolia, korea, north vietnam, and the lands north of the amur river. add singapore and the province of lanfang (borneo) there, real rear end china
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Jul 22, 2019 19:18
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gradenko_2000 posted:broke: bring back the Qing they were actually sorta-proto-communist so the idea would probably have a higher unironic approval rating Mantis42 posted:I'm pro-PRC in the sense that I am a Marxist who prefers a unified, socialist China over the country being destroyed and Balkanized like the European socialist states. Like I troll the libs but tbh the modern CCP is pretty far removed from what I expect of a leftist party. They allowed a new bourgeoisie to form and infiltrate their ranks (notice for all of Xi Jinping's talk of renewed socialism, he never mentions class war), they are socially regressive, the treatment of the Uighurs, though exaggerated by Western propaganda, is unacceptable, and they have abandoned international revolution even rhetorically. this is roughly where I figured your position was from your posts in the DnD thread, but I wasn't completely sure you were hamming it up
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Jul 22, 2019 19:24
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Mantis42 posted:They allowed a new bourgeoisie to form and infiltrate their ranks (notice for all of Xi Jinping's talk of renewed socialism, he never mentions class war) one has to admit that, if the bourgeoisie were confident in their position under bourgeoisie lover president xi, one would expect to see far fewer rich chinese trying to stash their booty overseas through whatever means possible my personal assessment is that the PRC under xi is still dedicated towards a properly socialist state and the general ideas of MLM, but they're also - perhaps justifiably - wary of going on the offensive either too quickly or too obviously. immediately and loudly declaring, "we will smash the millionaires and take their fortunes," is the sort of thing that will shift the chinese bourgeoisie from a position of caution to extreme defensive panic, something that will make them far more likely to actively collude with the forces who genuinely want a government dedicated to the preservation of the capitalist economic order at all costs. they also run the risk of having an anti-capitalist groundswell that they have little-to-no control over, something which could accelerate the conflict before they're in a tenable position the current situation - where it's made clear that capitalism in china is a temporary state of affairs without actively going after the business class kulak-style - benefits the PRC more in the short term: you have relative freedom to pursue projects like anti-corruption drives, massive urban infrastructure programs, and the general promotion and reinforcement of MLM thought and socialist values in the citizenry without worrying about hundreds of gilded knives at your back. the goal is to create a society that is both stable enough and committed enough to the socialist project that attempts to return to a pre-socialist era from either within or without becomes effectively impossible short of a full-on foreign conquest. you want to carve off the branch the old capitalist society is sitting on without the bourgeoisie noticing and snatching the saw from your hand, so to speak china's not there yet, and it's entirely plausible that future leaders post-xi will reverse the trend and allow the country to be swallowed entirely by international capitalism, but i don't think the present state of affairs point towards xi and the PRC dedicating themselves wholeheartedly to the aims of capital
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Jul 23, 2019 00:20
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Vermain posted:one has to admit that, if the bourgeoisie were confident in their position under bourgeoisie lover president xi, one would expect to see far fewer rich chinese trying to stash their booty overseas through whatever means possible this is my position as well
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Jul 23, 2019 04:23
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oh poo poo someone made a post in this thread i both understand and agree with
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Jul 23, 2019 04:29
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R. Guyovich posted:this is my position as well capitalism must be carefully placated and preserved
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Jul 23, 2019 04:34
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Vermain posted:my personal assessment is that the PRC under xi is still dedicated towards a properly socialist state 
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Jul 23, 2019 04:37
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SKULL.GIF posted:capitalism must be carefully placated and preserved get this dumb reductive bullshit out of here
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Jul 23, 2019 04:38
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dont see anyone else running the biggest country on earth with socialist values you stupid bitch
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Jul 23, 2019 04:56
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Sir, are you suggesting that the leadership of China, which is personally wealthy almost beyond imagining and has massive amounts of assets hidden throughout the world in capitalist economies, living in incredible luxury, might not be the true inheritors of Socialism? I am shocked at the impropriety of these allegations.
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Jul 23, 2019 05:00
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No look Xi is playing tenth-dimensional chess and is secretly working towards socialism and totally hasn't installed himself as a new bourgeoise elite e: rguy weren't you reading a thing that you said was cool what was that Grapplejack has issued a correction as of 05:04 on Jul 23, 2019 |
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Jul 23, 2019 05:00
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Grapplejack posted:No look Xi is playing tenth-dimensional chess and is secretly working towards socialism and totally hasn't installed himself as a new bourgeoise elite To be fair true socialism is essentially depended on people no matter how powerful or powerless all simultaneously giving up all personal desires, requiring no motivation to be productive, and be entirely self policing with regards to corruption forever in order to function, so this belief really isn’t outlandish if you’ve already given in to thinking that’s even remotely possible.
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Jul 23, 2019 05:13
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Vermain posted:stash their booty overseas
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Jul 23, 2019 05:17
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So is it better to be wealthy, or well-connected in China? How about extremely wealthy versus extremely well-connected in the PRC? I'm just curious, I think being rich is your best best in the Western world but I'm interested in how money versus political clout works in China (or other nominally non-capitalist states). e: I imagine at some point you are rich enough or political enough that you become Above other people, I'm mainly wondering what your everyday Chinese person dreams of. Wealth, power, or both?
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Jul 23, 2019 05:21
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given that the alternative would be for China to have to engage in the same kind of compromises and omelette-producing-egg-breaking that is consistently used to propagandize the efforts of the USSR as "not being worth it", I'm not one to second-guess the CPC for leveraging productive forces that Marx himself spoke of as being necessary as a precursor to socialism
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Jul 23, 2019 05:21
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Darkman Fanpage posted:dont see anyone else running the biggest country on earth with socialist values you stupid bitch first show me a country China's size running on socialist values then call me a stupid bitch, you stupid bitch
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Jul 23, 2019 05:25
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:first show me a country China's size running on socialist values then call me a stupid bitch, you stupid bitch lol go back to GBS you dumb lib
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Jul 23, 2019 05:34
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since they have socialist in the name we must defend them at all costs, even if they aren't socialist
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Jul 23, 2019 05:39
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Autism Sneaks posted:lol go back to GBS you dumb lib lol gently caress your kneejerk idiocy
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Jul 23, 2019 05:51
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Grapplejack posted:since they have socialist in the name we must defend them at all costs, even if they aren't socialist Suddenly the pro-concentration-camp stance of some posters starts to fall right into place
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Jul 23, 2019 06:07
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Sorry folks, the results are in: China is more Communist than ever: https://youtu.be/QmXdAB3KKlA Congratulations to China
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Jul 23, 2019 06:10
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| # ? Apr 26, 2024 19:29 |
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People ITT who think China is a socialist paradise don't live in China Food for thought
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Jul 23, 2019 07:36
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