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davidspackage
May 16, 2007



Nap Ghost

Basebf555 posted:

So if you're so interested in finding out whether a sex offender will get to work again, why don't you answer the question for yourself. Would you want to hire him?

Probably not. But if you ask my opinion on whether it's okay for someone to employ a person who tried to have sex with a kid 11 years ago, depending on what industry it is, I guess yes?

I get that Munn or anyone else doesn't want him near her, and that it's a big problem if Black downplays his crime.

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Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

davidspackage posted:

Probably not. But if you ask my opinion on whether it's okay for someone to employ a person who tried to have sex with a kid 11 years ago, depending on what industry it is, I guess yes?

I get that Munn or anyone else doesn't want him near her, and that it's a big problem if Black downplays his crime.

Right, so given his criminal history, his co-workers feel uncomfortable with him around. So therefore it makes sense to me that as an employer I would not want to hire him. Shane Black felt differently.

Tbh I still don't understand what you're even driving at. So what if someone who sexually assaults children has trouble finding work? Is that a problem? Why would that be a primary concern here?

Inspector Gesicht
Oct 26, 2012

500 Zeus a body.




And The Nice Guys was such a good movie...

edogawa rando
Mar 20, 2007

ASK ME ABOUT MY SCHOOL GIRL FETISH

Basebf555 posted:

Right, so given his criminal history, his co-workers feel uncomfortable with him around. So therefore it makes sense to me that as an employer I would not want to hire him. Shane Black felt differently.

Tbh I still don't understand what you're even driving at. So what if someone who sexually assaults children has trouble finding work? Is that a problem? Why would that be a primary concern here?

I think it's also that 1. Shane Black was friends with the guy for years prior to his arrest and just wants to help a friend out and 2. has he re-offended since? On the one hand, yeah, dude tried to groom a teenage girl and luckily there was no follow-through, but on the other, he evidently hasn't re-offended since, and I can see how that would lead to Black giving his friend minor acting roles.

Either way, I do feel that to some extent, Black's judgement was heavily influenced by his relationship with the guy, and he obviously failed to take into account how the others working with him would feel about it.

edogawa rando fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Sep 6, 2018

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

Probably should just brand the guy's forehead or make him wear some kind of patch on all of his clothing forever so that these sorts of misunderstandings can be avoided in the future.

K. Waste
Feb 27, 2014

MORAL:
To the vector belong the spoils.


AlternateAccount posted:

Probably should just brand the guy's forehead or make him wear some kind of patch on all of his clothing forever so that these sorts of misunderstandings can be avoided in the future.

Oh, look, the loving idiot came back.

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



Do actors in these kind of roles get paid differently if their scene is used or shortened or cut or whatever?

AlternateAccount
Apr 25, 2005
FYGM

NotJustANumber99 posted:

Do actors in these kind of roles get paid differently if their scene is used or shortened or cut or whatever?

You'll get paid your day rate to show up and be on set and all that. But (edit: probably) you won't get any residuals or anything.

edit

AlternateAccount fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Sep 6, 2018

DeimosRising
Oct 17, 2005

¡Hola SEA!




Basebf555 posted:

Right, so given his criminal history, his co-workers feel uncomfortable with him around. So therefore it makes sense to me that as an employer I would not want to hire him. Shane Black felt differently.

Tbh I still don't understand what you're even driving at. So what if someone who sexually assaults children has trouble finding work? Is that a problem? Why would that be a primary concern here?

I mean ex cons should not be economically disadvantaged, no. But the dude made his choices, people aren’t gonna want to be around him, especially not former targets of assault, and he’s not entitled to any particular line of work, boo hoo

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

AlternateAccount posted:

Probably should just brand the guy's forehead or make him wear some kind of patch on all of his clothing forever so that these sorts of misunderstandings can be avoided in the future.

Again, there's a difference between the false equivalency you're putting out there and having an acting career in Hollywood, which is not a right. Nobody is saying it should be illegal to hire a sex offender, or any of the extreme poo poo your talking about.

When you're in the public eye, you are judged by the public and their opinion of you holds sway over your future career prospects. That's the way it is and always has been, and will be in the future.

DeimosRising posted:

I mean ex cons should not be economically disadvantaged, no. But the dude made his choices, people aren’t gonna want to be around him, especially not former targets of assault, and he’s not entitled to any particular line of work, boo hoo

There's nuance to that issue, but generally I agree that overly punitive laws against ex-cons are bad. As I said, I wouldn't support legislatively banning ex-cons(or even sex offenders) from any particular line of work, but I do support an employers right to discriminate based on criminal background, within reason.

Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Sep 6, 2018

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back






The dude should definitely be allowed to work if he's done his time and hasn't offended again since. But being denied an acting job isn't like being denied a normal job, people get denied acting jobs for lesser reasons than 'once tried to groom a pre-teen' so in the grand scheme of things his scene being cut is not a big deal whatsoever.

I think it was cool of Black to try and help his friend out, but his statement on the matter is pretty badly done imho. Would be a hell of a lot different if he brought his buddy on to the set after letting everyone he'd be working with know the situation and see if they were cool with it, especially in the current #MeToo climate of Hollywood where this poo poo is finally being a big deal brought to light. Sure the dude's crime had nothing to do with the business, but it's still tangentially related and if I were Munn I would have wanted to know beforehand.

Macdeo Lurjtux
Jul 5, 2011

BRRREADSTOOORRM!


Vagabundo posted:

I think it's also that 1. Shane Black was friends with the guy for years prior to his arrest and just wants to help a friend out and 2. has he re-offended since? On the one hand, yeah, dude tried to groom a teenage girl and luckily there was no follow-through, but on the other, he evidently hasn't re-offended since, and I can see how that would lead to Black giving his friend minor acting roles.

Either way, I do feel that to some extent, Black's judgement was heavily influenced by his relationship with the guy, and he obviously failed to take into account how the others working with him would feel about it.

According to the criminal complaint there was follow through but the DA offered him a plea deal that dropped the statutory charges.

Hat Thoughts
Jul 27, 2012


The texts included in that article r so unbelievably horrible. I cannot imagine a world where I would keep supporting any friend who sent those out, no sympathy from me

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



esperterra posted:

The dude should definitely be allowed to work if he's done his time and hasn't offended again since. But being denied an acting job isn't like being denied a normal job, people get denied acting jobs for lesser reasons than 'once tried to groom a pre-teen' so in the grand scheme of things his scene being cut is not a big deal whatsoever.

I think it was cool of Black to try and help his friend out, but his statement on the matter is pretty badly done imho. Would be a hell of a lot different if he brought his buddy on to the set after letting everyone he'd be working with know the situation and see if they were cool with it, especially in the current #MeToo climate of Hollywood where this poo poo is finally being a big deal brought to light. Sure the dude's crime had nothing to do with the business, but it's still tangentially related and if I were Munn I would have wanted to know beforehand.

Also he cast the sex offender as a sex offender who targets one of his actresses, which is so tone deaf that he needs hearing aids to understand what the word “no” means.

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


chitoryu12 posted:

Also he cast the sex offender as a sex offender who targets one of his actresses, which is so tone deaf that he needs hearing aids to understand what the word “no” means.

Hat Thoughts posted:

The texts included in that article r so unbelievably horrible. I cannot imagine a world where I would keep supporting any friend who sent those out, no sympathy from me

I really wonder what happened that led to Munn learning this in the first place. It's not like sexting with your kid cousin is some kinda misunderstanding.

chitoryu12
Apr 23, 2014



HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

I really wonder what happened that led to Munn learning this in the first place. It's not like sexting with your kid cousin is some kinda misunderstanding.

Unless she researches everyone she works with just in case, I’d imagine either he acted just as creepy as someone with that criminal record would or someone else recognized his name and told her “Hey, the guy playing the sex offender in your scene actually gropes underage teens so be on guard.”

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


Yeah, I don't wanna cast aspersions but that's not gonna be something you just take it on yourself to find out about someone out of the blue.

Friends Are Evil
Oct 25, 2010

cats cats cats





https://ew.com/movies/2018/09/06/the-predator-shane-black-apologizes/

Shane Black put out an apology.

quote:

“Having read this morning’s news reports, it has sadly become clear to me that I was misled by a friend I really wanted to believe was telling me the truth when he described the circumstances of his conviction,” Black said in a statement obtained my EW. “I believe strongly in giving people second chances — but sometimes you discover that chance is not as warranted as you may have hoped.

“After learning more about the affidavit, transcripts, and additional details surrounding Steve Striegel’s sentence, I am deeply disappointed in myself,” the statement continued. “I apologize to all of those, past and present, I’ve let down by having Steve around them without giving them a voice in the decision.”

graventy
Jul 27, 2006




Fun Shoe

I can believe that Black didn't know the full details. But, seriously, gently caress that guy. He basically denies anything happened and then claims to have accepted responsibility for it? Acting is a public profession that brings with it power and fame. Go work a regular job.

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010



I think Hollywood will eventually come around to the need for routine background checks. Industries of far lower visibility do their due diligence because of the reputational risks. It’s purely bad corporate management that’s allowing this sort of things to happen.

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



In some jobs I've had I can be fairly certain that my coworkers have no significant criminal history because of the checks I had to have done to work there, but in most jobs I don't think there is any particular guarantee or right to know the history of your co-workers? I have never explicitly asked or been told if coworkers have had criminal records, not sure thats any of my business really.

K. Waste
Feb 27, 2014

MORAL:
To the vector belong the spoils.


The fact that it's easier for sex offenders to get a cushy acting gig from their bros in a popcorn movie than it is for them to get a job pissing into water bottles in between packing obsolete iMac chargers at Amazon shipping plants for college grads who still live with their parents is about as succinct a critique of class and capitalism as I could ever imagine

Rhyno
Mar 22, 2003

how few people do you
need before you can
change the world?


graventy posted:

I can believe that Black didn't know the full details. But, seriously, gently caress that guy. He basically denies anything happened and then claims to have accepted responsibility for it? Acting is a public profession that brings with it power and fame. Go work a regular job.

Walmart is always hiring.

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



If the girl working the next aisle in walmart finds out hes a sex offender, should walmart fire him? I'd say she likely at more risk that Olivia Munn from the guy?

Not that I care about him getting fired as such, if we're saying go and work in walmart we're saying the coworkers there deserve less protection (consideration?) than a hollywood person? Because they have poo poo jobs anyway?

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010



I think the societal ideal of a former sexual assaulter is that they keep a low profile and don’t work in a field where they regularly interact with “vulnerable” groups like children or problem teens.

Sucrose
Dec 9, 2009


I feel like Shane Black should have realized that his friendship with the guy likely clouds his judgement on whether it's appropriate for him to be cast or not, and that he should have at least let the studio know about the guy's past when he proposed putting him in the movie, and then let them make the ultimate call. Sure he's the director, but it seems like the sort of thing he ought to have deferred to at least one other person's judgement.

But for me the real bizarre thing is that studios supposedly can't run background checks on actors, or apparently even see if they're registered sex offenders.

Unless that's complete bullshit and the studio is just trying to cover their asses because they knew Olivia Munn was upset and it would look bad if she went to the press about it. (As someone theorized in another thread)

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!




Vegetable posted:

I think the societal ideal of a former sexual assaulter is that they keep a low profile and don’t work in a field where they regularly interact with “vulnerable” groups like children or problem teens.

The McDonald's franchise I worked at wouldn't hire sex offenders for that reason.

Samuel Clemens
Oct 4, 2013

I think we should call the Avengers.



Yeah, if your goal is minimising the chance of a sex offender interacting with a vulnerable group, putting them into food or retail is a terrible idea. Get them a job in a field that's populated by old men, like accounting or something.

DrVenkman
Dec 27, 2005

I think he can hear you, Ray.


Sucrose posted:

I feel like Shane Black should have realized that his friendship with the guy likely clouds his judgement on whether it's appropriate for him to be cast or not, and that he should have at least let the studio know about the guy's past when he proposed putting him in the movie, and then let them make the ultimate call. Sure he's the director, but it seems like the sort of thing he ought to have deferred to at least one other person's judgement.

But for me the real bizarre thing is that studios supposedly can't run background checks on actors, or apparently even see if they're registered sex offenders.

Unless that's complete bullshit and the studio is just trying to cover their asses because they knew Olivia Munn was upset and it would look bad if she went to the press about it. (As someone theorized in another thread)

If you take Black at his word, then it's entirely possible he didn't know the full details of it.

A guy I worked with, who I considered a work friend, vanished for a while for what he called a 'family emergency'. It eventually came out that he was in some legal trouble, but to hear him tell it everything was just a stupid misunderstanding. Even then he lied about the actual nature of it and you kind of take someone's word for what happened, particularly if you know them. It was only because someone from work called the courts that we found out why exactly he was there.

Slutitution
Jun 26, 2018

by Nyc_Tattoo



...so was he replaced by Christopher Plummer?

Basebf555
Feb 29, 2008

The greatest sensual pleasure there is is to know the desires of another!



Fun Shoe

Slutitution posted:

...so was he replaced by Christopher Plummer?

Turns out the subplot involving a random dude sexually harassing Olivia Munn wasn't exactly crucial to the overall plot. Who'd have thought?

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



In the script that scene sets up Olivia Munn’s character as someone who is super intelligent and takes zero poo poo from anyone. The jogger is hitting on her, and she talks science and what she does, studying evolutionary change for animals and such. He replies “you mean like when a man meets a beautiful woman?”

Her face turns sour and she says “no like survival of the fittest” and then she burns the guy by pointing out Darwin’s theory includes agility, intelligence, ect, but “all you need these days is to be a straight white guy”

Then she talks about dropping a big CEO in the desert and see how long he lasts, and what color he’ll end up when an animal shits him out.

The guy gets nervous and fucks off.

That’s the whole scene. It’s sorta important setting up Munn’s character but not that important it couldn’t be cut.

Brother Entropy
Dec 27, 2009



that scene sounds awful tbh

DeimosRising
Oct 17, 2005

¡Hola SEA!




sounds like Black doesn’t know what survival of the the fittest means

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



I don’t think it’s meant to be a statement. Just a way to freak out a creep.

NotJustANumber99
Feb 15, 2012



But now it's been cut. The creep won't be freaked out. I hope it will be still possible to work out that Olivia Munn is a scientist. White coat?

davidspackage
May 16, 2007



Nap Ghost

NotJustANumber99 posted:

But now it's been cut. The creep won't be freaked out. I hope it will be still possible to work out that Olivia Munn is a scientist. White coat?

Tara Reid may have a pair of glasses to lend her.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



Oh my god, I forgot about that. Use Boll is a loving mad man

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD
Sep 14, 2007

everything is yours


CelticPredator posted:

I don’t think it’s meant to be a statement. Just a way to freak out a creep.

And now look at us. Who's the true creep?

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Timby
Dec 23, 2006

Your mother!



DrVenkman posted:

A guy I worked with, who I considered a work friend, vanished for a while for what he called a 'family emergency'.

As I recall, that's what Aatrek told the SA mod staff before he went off to prison.

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