Sexual Assault and the Culture of Hollywood

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Cinema Discusso > Sexual Assault and the Culture of Hollywood

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

The people �debunking� that Gal Gadot story are stupid as hell. Just as somebody can make a story up, somebody can also make a confession up.

Like others have said, there are unique identifiers in the story. Wait for somebody to follow up on the leads. Somebody will. Save your indignation, whichever side you�re on.

# ¿ Nov 15, 2017 07:21

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 06:57

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Much neuroscience is horseshit. It�s a really lousy way to attack transracialism.

Anyway, the debate about transgenderism and transracialism has raged in academic circles too. A philosopher and a journal were recently subjected to a witchhunt for making, in essence, a more substantial version of Crews� point.

I accept that the two should not be compared, but the response to these things should not be unmitigated outrage. It�s new terrain for everybody.

# ¿ Nov 16, 2017 02:29

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

We�re talking about something that happened like 15 years ago outside the United States. Investigating it wouldn�t take just two days. Give it some time, people.

# ¿ Nov 16, 2017 03:54

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Come on, even after the flood of evidence came out, comedians have barely poked at Louis CK. The talk show hosts haven't done poo poo. John Oliver cracked one joke about it on his show. Jon Stewart's been comparing the sexual harassment to alcoholism, like the real victim of all this poo poo was Louis CK.

I don't think Hollywood's going to do a drat thing about Al Franken. I have no faith at all that he will resign, that there will be any kind of sustained media outrage about his actions. He's a progressive firebrand, hugely popular, seen as a presidential hopeful, with powerful friends in the media.

There have been articles about how liberals got it wrong with Bill Clinton. I think it's going to be the same thing here. Political exigency is going to win the day.

# ¿ Nov 16, 2017 17:48

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Also Crews has a good guy image that wouldn�t go down so well with those stories. It was a hit on his personal and professional life.

# ¿ Nov 20, 2017 06:09

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

To me, that SNL statement is just liberals standing up for one of their own and in the process undermining the cause. It's Bill Clinton again.

Also there's something remarkably tone-deaf about signing off a letter about sexual harassment with a holiday greeting.

# ¿ Nov 21, 2017 18:25

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Basebf555 posted:

A thinking person sees a list like that(not unlike the women who have come out to defend Roy Moore) and understands that just because Franken had good relationships with them it doesn't mean these accusers are lying.

I'm not being facetious, but you're starting off on the wrong premise there. This entire issue isn't remotely about what a thinking person understands.

# ¿ Nov 21, 2017 18:27

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

There are articles about how Lasseter�s resignation casts a pall over the release of Coco. It�s really, really lovely to have the misdeeds of a white man undermine whatever good there is for underrepresented groups. It�s the same thing for Transparent.

# ¿ Nov 22, 2017 02:37

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

They fired him after a single complaint and said there was likely to be more. I'd be interested in what makes them say that. I guess I'm just surprised somebody's acting decisively on these things for once.

Vegetable fucked around with this message at 14:23 on Nov 29, 2017

# ¿ Nov 29, 2017 14:17

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Sir Kodiak posted:

Other way around, I think. He could lock the door so that no one could walk in.

So, like a regular door?

# ¿ Nov 30, 2017 02:15

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

I don't think nearly enough time has passed to see what effect his revelation has on his career. But surely the ramifications can only be negative.

# ¿ Dec 4, 2017 18:36

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

These idiots will all duck out to Paris and congregate to the point of having enough people and money to form an exclusively sexual-predator filmmaking community. And some of the films will actually be good, and society will be eternally caught between hating the artist and loving the art.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2017 15:32

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Without proof, the hacking and bugging accusations come across as paranoid. I wouldn�t put it past an angry Hollywood exec to do it but this would be far beyond what Weinstein�s goons did (to our knowledge, anyway).

If they�re doing it they�re hiring actual criminals.

# ¿ Dec 16, 2017 07:02

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

GonSmithe posted:

Two people can be bad, and your dad being a giant piece of poo poo murderer definitely affects how you�re raised

Most people aren't talking about his upbringing, though.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2017 08:56

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

There was also a good amount of unsolicited groping and touching in my recollection, but it�s okay because they ended up falling in love.

For real though, some of this stuff probably wouldn�t fly in a film about heterosexual people, particularly if it was an older men and a younger woman.

# ¿ Dec 28, 2017 04:15

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

He's doing it for the publicity. His Twitter account is retweeting news articles about his apology.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2018 04:40

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

DC Murderverse posted:

https://twitter.com/alannabennett/status/950925983183441920

What one might have missed in this long transcript is Aaron Sorkin rooting for Kevin Spacey's "miraculous transformation" and hoping he gets to find his way back to Hollywood.

# ¿ Jan 11, 2018 06:48

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Learning that there were feminists who vehemently organized against trans people was a big eye-opener for me. In my imagination they were natural allies. This illusion broke really quickly when I stumbled on what I think is Canada's most popular feminism website: http://www.feministcurrent.com/

You can't go very far without stumbling on some trans-hating article (one is literally on the front page).

# ¿ Jan 11, 2018 16:06

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

My first guess was that he definitely learned it from watching porn because it is absolutely a porn thing

# ¿ Jan 14, 2018 17:22

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

The line about wine is just color. It paints the scene. A lot of the stories emerging from #MeToo are written to be extremely exhaustive because it makes the story more palpable. If you're at all sympathetic to the woman, it seems quite unfair to seize on one detail to cast her as, I don't know, frivolous.

# ¿ Jan 16, 2018 18:19

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

I've read a few opinion pieces that speak out against the babe.net piece. Some of it is reductive, some of it is worth reading. I think the Guardian piece is important, though it's a bit of a mess to read.

Washington Post: "Babe�s Aziz Ansari piece was a gift to anyone who wants to derail #MeToo"

quote:

I would suggest there�s a reason this story appeared in babe, rather than the New York Times or BuzzFeed or the Los Angeles Times or, yes, The Washington Post. One of the reasons is that, however Grace now thinks of the encounter, what happened isn�t sexual assault or anything close to it by most legal or common-sense standards. And bad dates � including terrible ones that leave one person feeling humiliated � aren�t actually newsworthy, even when they happen to famous people.

[...]

The irony of all this is that, while Ansari�s story went viral, another, more important one got lost in the news cycle. Actress Eliza Dushku, writing on her Facebook page, accused a then-36-year-old stunt coordinator of molesting her at the age of 12. It�s a horrifying story, every parent�s worst nightmare � and an actual crime, an actual abuse of power and trust. These are the sorts of tales people interested in clearing Hollywood of abuse should be telling. This is the best way to promulgate the story line.

New York Times: "Aziz Ansari Is Guilty. Of Not Being a Mind Reader."

quote:

Aziz Ansari sounds like he was aggressive and selfish and obnoxious that night. Isn�t it heartbreaking and depressing that men � especially ones who present themselves publicly as feminists � so often act this way in private? Shouldn�t we try to change our broken sexual culture? And isn�t it enraging that women are socialized to be docile and accommodating and to put men�s desires before their own? Yes. Yes. Yes.

But the solution to these problems does not begin with women torching men for failing to understand their �nonverbal cues.� It is for women to be more verbal. It�s to say: �This is what turns me on.� It�s to say �I don�t want to do that.� And, yes, sometimes it means saying piss off.

The single most distressing thing to me about Grace�s story is that the only person with any agency in the story seems to be Aziz Ansari. Grace is merely acted upon.

The Guardian: "The poorly reported Aziz Ansari expos� was a missed opportunity"

quote:

What we haven�t touched on nearly as thoroughly is heterosexual sex for women in a society that still sees sex as primarily about male pleasure; that continues to position women�s bodies as sexual objects, receptacles and stand-ins for sex itself; and that encourages sexual aggressiveness in men and congeniality and passivity in women

[...]

In a perfect world, Grace would have walked out the door. But women are so strongly socialized to put others� comfort ahead of our own that even when we are furiously uncomfortable, it feels paralyzing to assert ourselves. This is especially true when we are young.

When feminists do try to talk about this sexual imbalance, we get written off as anti-sex prudes. [...] Women seem to have two sexual possibilities: yes or no. Note that men never have to say �no means no� or even �yes means yes�. They�re the ones posing the question, not answering it.

# ¿ Jan 16, 2018 20:10

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Adding to the list of opinion pieces above, a video criticizing the babe.net piece has been popping up all over. It's by a contributor to HLN, which I now know is a part of CNN rather than a cheap YouTube knockoff of cable news channels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4bAULTwAJU

It's a bit disingenuous and reads like it was engineered to go viral. But it's part of a broader backlash.

# ¿ Jan 16, 2018 20:54

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Darko posted:

I read it as Ansari reading her "take it slow" and some actions as him being able to get laid *sometime that night* as opposed to *later in the relationship*, and thus him trying to jump in with any opening.

I read it that way too, recognizing it because it's something I might have done in my late teens. This doesn't at all make it okay behavior; as others have said, this merely indicts the greater social body for normalizing such behavior.

# ¿ Jan 17, 2018 14:57

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Southpaugh posted:

Left out of the description of the "back in the apartment" bit of the story is that they were both probably doing loads of drugs. Read between the lines. Aziz isn't sitting around at home with some flowers and some bollinger. He's got a pile of coke and maybe some G or something like that for when things get started. She wasn't into the sex stuff, but something else was keeping her there.

Time for an avatar change, buddy

# ¿ Jan 17, 2018 17:05

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Mister Fister posted:

The writer of the article actually emailed Banfield and uh...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjRYbR_-Dhw

That's one way to destroy your reputation

# ¿ Jan 18, 2018 04:32

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

I liked this piece in the New York Times by Lindy West:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/17/opinion/aziz-ansari-metoo-sex.html

# ¿ Jan 18, 2018 11:16

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

The New York Times and Washington Post do extremely good work on a consistent basis. One of them broke the loving story that set off the entire #MeToo movement. Journalists from established news outlets are continuing to do very careful and important reporting on sexual assault in Hollywood. Please don't grind your cynical jaded axe about "clinically dead journalism" here.

# ¿ Jan 20, 2018 20:02

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

With any luck, this will get Hollywood to do some investigative due diligence before pouring tens of millions into a picture. Nearly all big businesses do it; Hollywood is just being sloppy.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2018 06:51

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

ALFbrot posted:

It looks like he cast himself as a Secret Service agent, and that's a frame from a moment when he leaned in to whisper something in her ear, which is a pretty common TV cliche

edit: yep
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWEshHOR3A8&t=103s

Thanks for checking. That screenshot was hella disingenuous, and "skepticism" -- on both sides -- should entail a bit of legwork, like this.

# ¿ Jan 23, 2018 17:39

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Judakel posted:

Yeah, that link details how he choked and spit on Uma face. Also, he made her do a stunt that left her with permanent injuries.

Thurman acknowledges that first part was at least kinda sorta voluntary, but that stunt, woof. She should sue these chumps for all the cash.

# ¿ Feb 3, 2018 19:13

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

I love the Times and their op-eds reaaaaally piss me off. But I don't think the average person understands the clear line between news and opinion at a newspaper. Thurman shoulda gone to a real reporter.

# ¿ Feb 4, 2018 21:47

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

R. Guyovich posted:

since his comment is 15 years old tarantino thinks it's fine to do whatever with it

# ¿ Feb 6, 2018 08:57

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Steve2911 posted:

I feel like Dowd could've mentioned some of this in the article...

Thurman and Tarantino's remarks came as a response to the article, not clear what you're expecting unless you're talking about the petition

# ¿ Feb 6, 2018 10:20

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

jet sanchEz posted:

One of my favourite movies of all time is Chinatown, it is so well done and just an amazing, amazing film. Sucks to be me.

that sure is the worst thing to come out of polanski being a child rapist

# ¿ Feb 8, 2018 14:54

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

DC Murderverse posted:

that right there is a publicist who knows exactly how to do their job

Should have waddled in sooner, there's enough in there for somebody to weave a clickbait headline

# ¿ Feb 8, 2018 19:53

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

PT6A posted:

As it turns out, it's possible to be both a courageous victim, and also a complete nut.

Same thing with great directors and despicable human beings.

Duality of man and all

# ¿ Feb 9, 2018 21:13

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Michael Haneke has decided to waddle in and poo poo on the #MeToo movement.

http://deadline.com/2018/02/michael-haneke-metoo-witch-hunt-comments-1202285106/

# ¿ Feb 11, 2018 19:11

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

jet sanchEz posted:

I think the Michael Haneke article should be read before you guys judge him.

the Austrian filmmaker said there is no question that �any form of rape or coercion is punishable� But this hysterical pre-judgment which is spreading now, I find absolutely disgusting. And I don�t want to know how many of these accusations related to incidents 20 or 30 years ago are primarily statements that have little to do with sexual assault.�

allowed he would probably be referred to as �Haneke, the male chauvinist pig� after making the comments in the interview. He qualified his statements saying the current debate is disturbing because of �the blind rage that�s not based on facts and the prejudices that destroy the lives of people whose crime has not been proved in numerous cases. People are simply assassinated in the media, ruining lives and careers.�

He noted that Nagisa �shima�s film In The Realm Of The Senses, which he calls �one of the deepest and most profound on the subject of sexuality,� could not be made today �because the funding institutions would not allow this, anticipating obedience to this terror. Suspected actors are cut out of movies and TV series in order not to lose (audiences). Where are we living? In the new Middle Ages?�

Haneke stressed that �this has nothing to do with the fact that every sexual assault and all violence � whether against women or men � should be condemned and punished. But the witch hunt should be left in the Middle Ages.�

What exactly do you think is okay here?

# ¿ Feb 13, 2018 17:18

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Rhyno posted:

I just don't understand, does this mean they were financially hosed before this blew up?

No, they had multiple prospective buyers and favored one particular group that wouldn't strip the company of all its assets and employees.

But the New York Attorney General's very recent lawsuit against the Weinstein Company basically opens the company to an indefinite period of investigation and torpedoes all chances of a sale.

Nobody will do business with them now so they can't survive without a sale. Ergo bankruptcy.

# ¿ Feb 26, 2018 19:55

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 06:57

Vegetable: Oct 22, 2010

Phylodox posted:

Single White Female

What does it mean to be Single White Female'd by somebody, I still don't understand

# ¿ Mar 1, 2018 20:08

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