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Percelus posted:that is loving weird there are tons of adults playing overwatch why would an adult want to latch onto a group of young teens yeah idk, it doesn't feel right. now that i brought it up im gonna call my dad tonight and offer to talk with that dude. if his answers dont seem satisfactory (like, if he's a bit retarded it's cool) then i'll just have the boys block him.
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Nov 23, 2017 16:34
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Percelus posted:are you seriously that retarded you don't think teenagers are children and play games like cod or battlefront in droves? yes it affects a lot of adults but it definitely targets children too you smooth brain Right so the result is kids wont be able to buy lootbox games. But where does that leave any of you adult something awful posters? It again wont touch the example you brought up because paying to advance isnt gambling. I mean tell that poo poo to your congressman or whatever but everybody here knows what this is about and isnt about the kids lol.
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Nov 23, 2017 16:50
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DogonCrook posted:Right so the result is kids wont be able to buy lootbox games. But where does that leave any of you adult something awful posters? It again wont touch the example you brought up because paying to advance isnt gambling. no one is arguing that the practice is lovely solely because it targets children, it's just hilariously evil that it does so
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Nov 23, 2017 16:54
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I mean my point is yeah go after gambling but that isnt really gonna stop how hooked yall are and how throughly fleeced you will be. If yall want to stop getting bent over yall are gonna have to suck it up and stop buying this poo poo. It will always be predatory and you will never win some regulation to fix that. Money is the only voice you have in the US.
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Nov 23, 2017 16:57
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also online gambling is illegal in most states 
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Nov 23, 2017 16:58
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banning RNG loot boxes but allowing straight forward p2w wouldn't be a big hassle for the goverment or game companies.
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Nov 23, 2017 16:59
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Kids shouldn't be encouraged to buy lootcrates, if you're 18 you can already gamble so who gives a gently caress?
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Nov 23, 2017 17:05
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Magius1337est posted:Kids shouldn't be encouraged to buy lootcrates, if you're 18 you can already gamble so who gives a gently caress? gambling is regulated everywhere for a reason
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Nov 23, 2017 17:07
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Pay 2 win is basically an entire system to encourage children to play games of chance.
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Nov 23, 2017 17:07
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also gambling isn't protected by something in the bill of rights so it would technically be quite easy to even get a local municipality to pass a law restricting lootboxes.
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Nov 23, 2017 17:09
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Battlefront 2 isn't selling a game, they're selling a system to encourage children to spend money to play a game of chance.
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Nov 23, 2017 17:13
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what blows my mind is those mobile casino games where you gamble with fake money and you get a little bit every day unless you REALLY need to gamble fake money and buy pack of Lucky Crystals or whatever, and you can't redeem any of it into real money. people actually pay for this
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Nov 23, 2017 17:18
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Bleusilences posted:You cannot regulate RNG and stuff like that directly, what you can do it stick a Adult tag on any game that have loot boxes, you would see that things will change fast. I know the ESRB failed us here but with some arm twisting(political pressure) you could reverse their decision. If you think state and provincial governments can't regulate companies based in OECD countries you should look at the fantasy sport industry.
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Nov 23, 2017 17:18
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So MTG has booster packs where you get an uncommon, common, rare, and legendary every time you buy one so that could at least be argued as an "expansion" to the base game. But pokemon I think was completely random? So basically if you play the game you're basically encouraged to spend money multiple times for the chance of getting better cards to play the game better, creating a vicious cycle of kids dumping money on games of chance.
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Nov 23, 2017 17:28
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We publish odds on all other forms of gambling so why not lootboxes and card games?
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Nov 23, 2017 17:46
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Magius1337est posted:We publish odds on all other forms of gambling so why not lootboxes and card games? The odds are already published. You purchase a lootbox/card game booster and you get x items, y of which will be 'uncommon', z of which will be 'rare' and whatever. It's not even close to 'insert money and you either get the same/more money back or lose everything'.
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Nov 23, 2017 17:52
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If a game I like has a cosmetic only lootbox system, good. It's like a little mini casino add-on for something I'd already be doing and I'm an adult with self control so I can choose to pull the lever once or twice or never without going nuts and putting my family into the poorhouse. What I don't like is when kids have easy access to it, and when they provide non cosmetic gameplay upgrades that are unavailable otherwise
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Nov 23, 2017 17:59
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I'm fairly sure every console (and I'm betting Steam) has a way to make child accounts and block them from making purchases. The only people actually being 'preyed upon' here are manchildren who will pay hundreds for a virtual star war hat or something in a video game lol.
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Nov 23, 2017 18:01
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Couple people wilfully ignoring the point of promoting a gambling activity to children. Most will be fine, some will absolutely not be. Gambling activity is restricted from children in the US. If video game makers have found a way to make money off off a gambling type of activity then at least it should be limited to "adult" games. It is heartening to see all the posts saying yes bad influence on kids, or restrictions make sense.
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Nov 23, 2017 18:10
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Crash_N_Burn posted:If a game I like has a cosmetic only lootbox system, good. It's like a little mini casino add-on for something I'd already be doing and I'm an adult with self control so I can choose to pull the lever once or twice or never without going nuts and putting my family into the poorhouse. The thing about self control is everyone thinks they have it. Most of the time I do, but then one night I get drunk and I wake up and realize I just spend 400 dollars on call of duty cosmetic loot crates. That adds up really fast.
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Nov 23, 2017 18:14
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cda posted:Is there any reason to believe that companies don't manipulate the odds/RNG? Saying you get "a random item" doesn't tell you how random the item is, or whether it's more or less likely for you to get it today than it was yesterday etc. At the very least they should have to publish the odds they're giving, because I can easily imagine a situation where they pay attention to how much money players are spending and change the odds accordingly (or manipulate the difficulty of in-game events depending on how much money the player has spent etc.). I imagine this is exactly what we will see come of it. Games will have to publish the odds of getting the various levels of rewards. It’d be nice to see game makers forced to admit that, yes, you really only have a 1/2000 chance of getting a rare whatever. Nowadays, players have to determine that... by spending thousands of dollars to open enough “loot crates” to get a large enough sample size. Also the term “loot crate” is so ugly.
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Nov 23, 2017 18:22
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yeah I eat rear end posted:one night I get drunk and I wake up and realize I just spend 400 dollars on call of duty cosmetic loot crates. what the gently caress dude?
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Nov 23, 2017 18:26
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Gambling is the new vice of the era (I mean it's always been around, but it's the most socially acceptable now) and it needs to be curtailed at the very least in children's entertainment. It ruins people, loving ruins them.
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Nov 23, 2017 18:26
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For people comparing loot boxes to trading cards, you're right, but might not remember when trading cards themselves cam under fire and faced possible regulation. First it was the foil hologram baseball cards, and then the RPG game cards, that were termed "cardboard crack" for their addictive nature. Child psychologists were forced to write and comment on this because parents were putting their kids into therapy over baseball card addictions. I don't think anything ever came of it just because the popularity of this stuff just died down naturally.
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Nov 23, 2017 18:28
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Pick posted:Gambling is the new vice of the era (I mean it's always been around, but it's the most socially acceptable now) and it needs to be curtailed at the very least in children's entertainment. It ruins people, loving ruins them. Our current reality is starting to look like the Biff Tannen dystopic alternate future where he steals the sports playbook. 
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Nov 23, 2017 18:32
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Dyna Soar posted:my little brother is 13 and he plays overwatch a lot. he and a group of friends. whats weird is that everyone else is 13 and knows each other through school or a sports team except this one dude whos over 30. no ones ever met him, he just happened to play a couple of games, added them as friends and now plays with them every day. i'd probably just assume he's just a lonely goon type, and not that it's a sexual-creep factor but idk. lotta hosed up peeps out there. then again i now can't stand the voice of 13 year olds now so you may have to be hosed up to be able to handle chat with a bunch of them.
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Nov 23, 2017 18:37
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Creamed Cormp posted:what the gently caress dude? sometimes you really want a specific thing and you don't get it the first 50 tries so you keep buying more.
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Nov 23, 2017 18:53
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Spinster posted:Couple people wilfully ignoring the point of promoting a gambling activity to children. Most will be fine, some will absolutely not be. Gambling activity is restricted from children in the US. If video game makers have found a way to make money off off a gambling type of activity then at least it should be limited to "adult" games. This is straight up untrue. Like churches and high schools regularly have casino nights for charity with cash and prizes. Unless you wanna argue chruches are morally corrupting our youth but goddamn a a southern evangelical preacher is less conservative than 30 yr old gamers what the hell happened?
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Nov 23, 2017 19:01
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DogonCrook posted:Unless you wanna argue chruches are morally corrupting our youth
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Nov 23, 2017 19:08
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Pick posted:Gambling is the new vice of the era (I mean it's always been around, but it's the most socially acceptable now) and it needs to be curtailed at the very least in children's entertainment. It ruins people, loving ruins them. Yeah but so does the internet and so do games. They pushed it this far because they recognized the market is not sane. There needs to be an aa for gamers at least. They remove loot boxes people will still spend as much ond dlc and cosmetic poo poo and be every bit as addicted and exploitable as they are now. I mean ive never heard of someone starving to death at the slot machine but gamers have done that multiple times. Neglected kids and broken marriages. Hell look at star citizen there is finacial ruin too. Its not a popular as gambling but the damage is pretty similar if not more insidious because nobody will aknowledge its unhealthy.
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Nov 23, 2017 19:10
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DogonCrook posted:Yeah but so does the internet and so do games. They pushed it this far because they recognized the market is not sane. There needs to be an aa for gamers at least. They remove loot boxes people will still spend as much ond dlc and cosmetic poo poo and be every bit as addicted and exploitable as they are now. You’ve never heard of old ladies spending their retirement money in slot machines? They can stay all day in front of one
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Nov 23, 2017 19:21
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Quote-Unquote posted:It'd have to always pays out the exact same amount, like lootboxes and trading cards do. And I guess it'd have to pay out variously coloured tokens instead of money. And those tokens can't be traded in with the vendor, because they're worthless, but for some reason nerds decide the purple ones are special. Lootboxes don't always pay out the exact same amount. They always pay out a specified number of times, but the rarity of the payouts vary wildly. That's what causes some of the items to become more valuable than others So you can think of the slot machine always paying out at least 1 penny as being equivalent to a lootbox always giving out at least the most worthless trash-tier garbage in the game, and the slot machine paying out $5k is like a lootbox giving you some super rare hat with streamers that read "I LIKE TO gently caress BALLOONS" or whatever the kids like these days (aka something some idiot would be willing to pay $5k for)
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Nov 23, 2017 19:23
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DogonCrook posted:It isnt a spurious comparison its the current law. Yeah until it changes. Of course it is a spurious comparison. Order of magnitude matters you can't just handwave away something that targets millions of children globally because "well carnies exist so it's fine." It's not even remotely on the same scale. It's obviously a hosed up business practice too when even CHINA has stepped in and said "ok we're regulating this." At least in China you know the % odds of getting X Y and Z on the lootboxes and it's not just lol ~you don't know what you'll get~ COMRADES fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Nov 23, 2017 |
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Nov 23, 2017 19:29
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Quote-Unquote posted:The odds are already published. Where exactly? I'm looking at a case in cs go right now and it only shows what's possible in the case. Not the actual probabilities for each skin.
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Nov 23, 2017 19:38
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Magius1337est posted:Where exactly? I'm looking at a case in cs go right now and it only shows what's possible in the case. Not the actual probabilities for each skin. And that's specifically one of the Belgium Gaming Commission's problems with the lootboxes. iirc they said it isn't a simple transaction because you don't actually know what you are buying. e: \/\/\/ yeah COMRADES fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Nov 23, 2017 |
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Nov 23, 2017 19:43
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I'll reiterate that the fact we have to argue moral hazard to children as a way of trying to get rid of a blatantly anti-consumer and exploitative business model rather than the simple fact that the business model is blatantly anti-consumer and exploitative is depressing, and shows the need for consumer protection bureaus (and why companies are so desperate to get rid of them). There is also the wrinkle to this whole thing that the rarity of a digital good is entirely artificial and manipulable since producing more once they've made the initial assets costs the company nothing, compared to a casino where paying out still costs the casino something (peanuts compared to what they make, but still). Edit: VV Not even generic recolors for the 99.99%. Most of the time it is like a healing potion or profile icon or something.
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Nov 23, 2017 19:45
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I'd be pissed if I found out that the cases I was buying has generic recolors 99.99% of the time but only paid out rare cool looking skins the 00.01% rest of the time.
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Nov 23, 2017 19:45
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Quote-Unquote posted:The odds are already published. Magic card boosters also "theoretically" publish the odds in this way. what they hide is the secret odds of any particular card within the common/uncommon/rare categories. some cards are added to the rare pool multiple times, some are added only once. so you are guaranteed to get a "rare" card, but you are not guaranteed to get a valuable or even useful rare card. most of them are exotic trash.
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Nov 23, 2017 19:48
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yeah the artificial scarcity is the most hosed up part, everyone could have coolguy gold-plated gun XYZ or whatever but that doesn't generate any revenue, whereas making them artificially scarce and requiring players to pay money to unlock a billion worthless loot crates in order to obtain the gun normally pulls in shitloads of money. The economic incentives are obviously perverse so anyone who comes along and says "lol free market will decide" is clearly a loving idiot
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Nov 23, 2017 19:52
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Has CSGO or any other games discontinued a line of cases to cause artificial scarcity?
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Nov 23, 2017 19:53
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