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WereGoat
Apr 28, 2017



from the letters pages of the Opal Herald

As a humble citizen, I am sad to see so many of the political parties flop about incapable of making the hard choices needed to ensure justice is done.

Why is it only the Direct Action List that have the guts to stand up and say what we are all thinking? All the weak willed so called party "leaders" will just lead us backwards unless the criminals are brought to justice.

The election isn't even over and I am saddened by how far our once great nation has fallen.

Come election Day, I know who I'm voting for

Yours

Outraged in Opal

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ADBOT LOVES YOU

Magnusth
Sep 25, 2014


AJ_Impy posted:

Join the Unity Coalition today!

Ah, but commerade, what is your Praxis? What do you give to the world that isn't plattitudes and empty rethorik? You make promises, but you have no way of fulfilling them, nothing but slogans and empty rethorik, no may to achieve your goals and no Praxis! Why do you quarrel with us, the true torchbearers of the revolution? If you truely seek unity, join with us at the SLRF and together we shall have the morrow!

- Comrade Kropotkin

Magnusth fucked around with this message at Nov 30, 2017 around 14:58

AJ_Impy
Jun 17, 2007



Toilet Rascal

Magnusth posted:

Ah, but commerade, what is your Praxis? What do you give to the world that isn't plattitudes and empty rethorik? You make promises, but you have no way of fulfilling them, nothing but slogans and empty rethorik, no may to achieve your goals and no Praxis! Why do you quarrel with us, the true torchbearers of the revolution? If you truely seek unity, join with us at the SLRF and together we shall have the morrow!

To whom do you think I was extending the invitation to the Unity Coalition? My doors are always open, and joining your strength to ours can only benefit both. The Unity Coalition is a broad church.

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

It is a foolish man indeed who attacks his fellow man when there are literal crocodile-men eating Virginians.


A Response to Recent Attacks

We noted with some disappointment the recent interview of Lenore Hughes. We had hoped that the spirit of revolutionary solidarity would have continued into the early stages of whatever new polity we are now constructing, but it seems certain elements are more than willing - eager even - to jettison to critical elements of the revolution they find objectionable now that the victory has seemingly been won.

Comrades, the struggle is only beginning!

We shall now address several of the points raised by Ms. Hudson

quote:

Aside from infrastructure improvement, which is a matter of near universal consensus

Consensus built after we first raised the issue, and placed it at the forefront for discussion. We are glad that even Ms. Hughes is able to recognize the untold advantages following a successful implementation of the SRLF’s policy, and we applaud the other parties for embracing it as well.

quote:

and their vague promises of social-programs

If Ms. Hughes would deign to attend a single one of our meetings, she would know our immediate goals are clear: the people must be fed, the people must be sheltered, and the people must be taught. Our children taught what they need to become adults, our adults taught what they need to thrive, and all taught what they need to become active and engaged citizenry in our new society. We will be happy to provide further specifics to Ms. Hughes’ satisfaction once we in turn have been provided with the necessary figures of state.

quote:

the main planks of their election platform are police reform and “justice, prompt, severe and inflexible”.

Surely Ms. Hughes cannot be defending the conduct of the police? Merely corrupt at best, actively tyrannical at worst, the police of Sirta were the fist of the Dictator and need complete top-to-bottom reform. Does Ms. Hughes disagree? And as for justice - justice deferred is justice denied. We are happy to work with other parties on what form that justice will take, as we already have been.

quote:

How do you see them carrying these policies out? By relying on the SDF, the Intelligence Service, and the corrupt municipal police forces? I think not. It seems clear, at least from my perspective, that they are going to ask the CLF to step in.

Seek justice via the tools of injustice? drat straight we won’t! The CLF has proven it’s effectiveness in the countryside, bringing crime under control and a semblance of normalcy to the lives of the people it’s drawn from. Should we not seek to replicate that planet-wide?

quote:

At that point, who do you think will make the relevant decisions, when it comes to who deserves justice and what reforms are necessary? Will it be a political party with no force of arms, distrusted by the existing enforcement mechanisms? Or, will it be the highly motivated and close-knit armed force that openly flaunts its’ willingness to continue “the struggle”?

Here we get to the crux of the matter. What Ms. Hughes fails to realize, whether deliberately or not, is that the CLF is the people.The CLF would not turn violence upon the people, for the CLF is the people! Beyond that, the brave fighters of the CLF are of the people, intimately connected and indivisible. The fighters of the CLF are mothers and fathers, daughters and sons, brothers and sisters! They are uncles and aunts, nieces and nephews, friends and comrades! The CLF is the people!

If the people determine that justice is necessary, that reforms must be undertaken, is that not the entire point of this revolution? We should embrace the organic self-defense forces of the people, not fear them! And the fact that they “flaunt their willingness to continue ‘the struggle’?” Entirely correct!

Comrades, the struggle is not over!

The antebellum period at it’s best was still a society rigged for the rich, where the foreign trader and the industrialist got rich off of your efforts. Should we swap back our chains of iron for chains of gold? We at the SRLF and our comradely organizations say No! No! A million times No! We must continue struggling for the good of all people, until we have a truly free society where the fruits of the people’s labor is employed for their own good, not that of their bosses.

Signed this day,

Central Committee of the SRLF

Comrade Luxemburg
Comrade Radek
Comrade Kropotkin
Comrade Bookchin
[mcclay]

Magnusth
Sep 25, 2014


AJ_Impy posted:

To whom do you think I was extending the invitation to the Unity Coalition? My doors are always open, and joining your strength to ours can only benefit both. The Unity Coalition is a broad church.

Again, i must ask: What is your Praxis? How will you aid the people?

- Comrade Kropotkin

AJ_Impy
Jun 17, 2007



Toilet Rascal

Magnusth posted:

Again, i must ask: What is your Praxis? How will you aid the people?

- Comrade Kropotkin

I ask you to list the resources available to aid the people. List the people in need. List the problems that lie between one and the other. You want to know our praxis, our process of realisation? It is to adapt to the circumstances and make use of that information to ensure the outcomes which provide the greatest benefit to the greatest number of people, and that ensure that none are left behind, rejected or allowed to unduly suffer. We must work from a position of greater knowledge, and we must use that knowledge swiftly. Your own policies are just as speculative as ours until your own party is fully cognisant of the resources at hand and the needs that must be met, to pretend otherwise is facile and disingenuous. Our policies remain adaptive, in order to respond to what we have to work with. The Unity Coalition does not proclaim that square pegs are the best at all times and for all things, then try to hammer them into round, triangular or hexagonal sockets. Instead, we see what is needed, we see what we have, and we move everything we can to provide for the one with the other by whatever means are necessary and open to us. If it gets the job done, if it solves some of the problems, it remains on the table for us. Can you and yours say the same, or does your ideology outstrip the needs of the people even if it isn't always a good fit?

-Arthur Subtallier

Shogeton
Apr 26, 2007

"Little by little the old world crumbled, and not once did the king imagine that some of the pieces might fall on him"

A Point on Democracy and The People

There is something that was said recently that concerns me. The statement that the CLF IS the people. Now, the bravery and dedication of these men is well known, and they are part of the people. But they are not all the people. They are not 'The People'. When a single organization claims that they represent 'The People' without being elected, that worries me. The people of Sirta are a varied and free spirited lot, and they are not so easily gathered in 'The People', and one military organization cannot simply step in and say they ARE the people. The CLF SERVES the people. And they served it well in performing part in liberating it. But I am not part of the CLF, would you say I'm not the part of the people? This kind of language is exactly the reason why I am concerned.

As to, continuing the struggle. A point worries me here is that such a spirit might lead to a decision that if an election were to go against you, some would feel that, since the CLF IS the people, any election that goes against the CLF would be 'illegitimate' and would be overthrown. That is why I ask that, even in this first election series, we are ware of what rhetoric we use.

The CLF was, and is still, a military force. They have performed admirably in keeping some normalcry during the tumultuous times, but maintaining order during wartime, and becoming law enforcement during peacetime are two seperate things. For one thing, they would become a part of the Sirtan government. They would no longer be partisans, but government employees. And if Dawn, or the FDG or the FSP or Kikuzakura no Kai were to win the elections, they would be expected to uphold the laws they instate with the same thoroughness and zeal they would if the Direct Action List would. And that, I believe will be quite the transformation for the CLF. Not simply in attitude, but also in skills. Maintaining the law in a city of millions is not comparable to taking care of a small rural town. You cannot afford to simply jettison the police apparatuses, because they are 'tainted'. We'll just have to clean it out.

And that does not mean that you arrest, execute or even fire everyone who has some dirt in his past. During the Greene era, it was just about impossible to maintain a position without getting some dirt on you. In fact, the very fact that they served Greene probably 'taints' them. But we need to see what behaviours we can not look past, and remove those, and those behaviours we do not approve, and would result in punishment if done now, but will overlook for during the Greene administration, and Pardon those.

Now, perhaps to more constructive subjects. The economical arrangements. I think there are very few parties who feel like going back to the pre-Vallstein era. People are still alive who remember the vasts amount of wealth in a few hands, and the despair and poverty that covered the rest of the planet.

unwantedplatypus
Sep 6, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 30 days!


The CLF, The police, the army. All of these are just tools of oppression. They seek to dominate the people from above. What Sirta needs is enforcement from within the ranks of her common citizens. Not from some opaque governmental association or party apparatus. We are all equal no? Then why is power distributed unequally?

Obliterati
Nov 13, 2012

Ask me about being the most Magnificent Bastard in EU4 Multiplayer.

Your phone goes off. You don't recognise the number.

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART

A clip from "Roundtable with Shaurya Vuong," a popular morning news vidcast, December 16, 3061

OZIOMA McCREARY: So, you aren't willing to give them the benefit of the doubt? How can this new government function if the parties believe all the others are acting in bad faith?

DANUBE [Audio feed only]: I have no doubt that the leadership of the DAL and SRLF are acting in what they believe to be the best interests of the people they represent. The problem, as I see it, is that they have too much faith in their fellow ideologues, they think anyone who publicly professes to share their goals can do no wrong.

McCREARY: You can't argue with results, citizens in areas policed by the CLF are reporting record low crime rates, and record high satisfaction with their police apparatus.

DANUBE: Yes, and the best path forward is to give the people the tools to make sure it stays that way. Right now, the CLF is accountable to nobody. If a particular settlement is unsatisfied with the way their police conduct themselves, the mayor can't pressure or replace their local CLF commander. They're at the mercy of the higher ranks of the CLF to-

McCREARY: The CLF hasn't caused any such problems so far, what makes you think they will? They clearly have the best interests of-

DANUBE: It's in the best interests of no one for an unelected militia to-

[crosstalk]

SHAURYA VUONG: [sips coffee]

DANUBE: All I'm saying is let's give democracy a chance. We've been conditioned by 30 years of dictatorship to just roll over and accept the presence of unaccountable armed groups in our society. The revolution is supposed to be a chance to change that. The reason the police in the old regime were so corrupt was because they weren't accountable to the people, there was no way for the people to effect change on their local police. That's why, if I'm elected, I intend to introduce a bill to integrate the CLF militia with police, to bring the effective police forces into civilian control. We'll need the manpower after clearing out all the corrupt police of the old regime, anyway.

VUONG: Thank you, Danube. As always, it's good to have you on the show.

DANUBE: My pleasure to be here, Shaurya.

Pakled fucked around with this message at Nov 30, 2017 around 17:35

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

It is a foolish man indeed who attacks his fellow man when there are literal crocodile-men eating Virginians.


unwantedplatypus posted:

The CLF, The police, the army. All of these are just tools of oppression. They seek to dominate the people from above. What Sirta needs is enforcement from within the ranks of her common citizens. Not from some opaque governmental association or party apparatus. We are all equal no? Then why is power distributed unequally?

I'm not sure what you think the CLF is - it's exactly the grassroots organization you seem to be endorsing, a model we concur in supoirting.

AFancyQuestionMark
Feb 19, 2017


A press release from the Direct Action List has just appeared on the SCN. It reads:

“We would like to address the ongoing debate among the public on the absolutely baffling, and frankly, deranged proposal for a mass amnesty to the hideous criminals who willingly facilitated, or even personally carried out, abominable crimes on behalf of the regime. Such a proposal, with all due respect to the esteemed Miss Hughes and her party, is unthinkable, unconscionable and is a slap to the face to the survivors of the regime’s atrocities. We will not allow it!

Furthermore, to attack the brave and valiant men and women in the CLF who have fought, for so long, to rid the people of tyranny and corruption, seeing their brothers and sisters in arms sacrifice their lives for our cause, enduring countless hardships and carrying on in their struggle even to this day, is an absolute disgrace!

We remind the people once again, that the struggle is not yet over. There are still far too many criminals in positions of power, far too many bootlickers and murderers roaming free. Our struggle will not be over, and can not be over until all of them get their just punishment.

We salute our former comrades-in-arms in the SRLF for defending the honor of the CLF and for taking a firm stance on justice. They have recently said “The CLF is the people!” and they are absolutely right. Which is why we, the only party officially endorsed by the CLF, are also the only party that deserves your vote!”

mcclay
Jul 8, 2013

Oh dear oh gosh oh darn


The scene: Venderstookburg, a small farming town out in the rural areas near the western edge of the peninsula. Comrade Hill, the nom de guerre for a former CLF officer who came from Venderstookburg, talks with several other former CLF fighters from the town in a televised interview.

Hill: "The thing that galls me the most is that, even after the Revolution, people still don't understand what the CLF is! I know that those in the cities were fed lies from the Green regime about the militias, but that they continue to parrot those lies astounds me! They're supposed to be the intellectual head of this whole drat thing. They're supposed to be able to know when dictators are lying to their faces, but when it comes to the self defense of the people they refuse, virulently refuse, to think and listen! The CLF, the militias, are not a top down force of 'strange, armed men' tramping about the rural townships and terrorizing the locals. They are the people of those towns taking up arms to defend themselves against tyranny! The CLF is merely an alliance of those groups, working together to better coordinate and accomplish more together than we could alone. Ramon, you remember when we formed the Venderstookburg militia, yeah?"

Ramon: "Yeah, it was after the pastor had been jailed. We held a town meeting and asked for volunteers. God, I was only 19. Felt like a real big man when I came up to the stage with my dads rifle. They cheered us as we fired on the police station. We cut the bastards down, saved the pastor and told Greene's dogs that if they wanted this town they could fight for it."

Hill: "That was a good day. What the elite don't understand, maybe can't understand, is that the people must defend themselves. Any CLF policing force will be made out of people from the community its policing. I often wonder if Dawn and the FDG even want the people to be able to defend themselves. Oh, I'm not trying to compare them to Greene, or even the narcissistic Selene, but Hughes seems unable to see the view of the worker. Of the farmer. Shes not a bad person, but I don't know if she really understands..."

nothing to seehere
Nov 11, 2010


Transcript of a Speech by Micheal Janstin repeated on all ad networks on the SCN - Where did he get the money for this?


I would like to start by asking the people of Sirta what our revolution was for. What did we protest and riot and strike and rebel for? For democracy, the rule of law, and sound economic governance - For bread on our tables and the liberty to enjoy it. And such the issue of justice and amnesty is key to how Sirta progresses forward. Do we want to be governed by the rule of law: Do we want a system where every citizen can be guaranteed a fair and equal trial, where evidence is required to prove guilt, and no one is without recourse or due process? Or should we start our new society in the same way the old one died: with purges, disappearances, and extrajudicial killings. This is the Freedom the Freedom and Stability Party stands for. The CLF, the brave warriors they are, seem to want to continue to fight a war after the peace has been signed: they want to continue to hunt down enemies over the battlefield instead of the courtroom. I of course wish swift and just punishment to those who can be proven to have killed and tortured our citizens gleefully in the name of Greene. But we cannot ignore the very values we launched a revolution over when we are the victors, and not the underdogs. Furthermore, there has been talk from many about purging our systems of all those who worked under Vallsteins government, and I forcefully resist that talk. Vallstein was in power for 30 years: Many of our distinguished citizens and even some revolutionaries participated in his system, myself included, because it was all-consuming. The only way we could benefit our fellow Sirtans was to do our best in managing SIrta under his rule, and trying to curb his worse excesses. Any attempt to purge our government of those who may be culpable of crimes under his rule would leave no-one over the age of 30 left standing - And I believe in a society which works for All Sirtans, not just those young revolutionaries.

But that is enough talk about the ghosts of the past. Now, I want to talk to your about the FSP's plans for the future. There has been much furor among some about how this is the time for radical economic change, as well as social change. But that ignores the reality of the planet as it is. People around Sirta go around with no food on the table, no heating in their homes, no jobs in their towns. What we need most is a system that we can be sure will work: Because you do not play games with the lives of 20 Million people. The other parties will give you theory for why their economic plans are the best, but only at the FSP do you get a leadership that has actually run a planetary economy beforehand: Vallstein's government was not a happy time for many, but I worked during it to keep the economy humming and food and jobs available to every Sirtan: and I would gladly do it again if given the chance by you, the people. I am glad that other parties recognize the importance of fixing our train network, the backbone of mobility of both people and goods, for when we are all connected once again we will have a interlinked planetary market where everything will be as cheap as in the cheapest place. But we most also make sure that investment to fix our war-torn country and reopen our factories and biotech plants is available, and only through foreign investment is the money we need to get Sirta working again available - foreign investment I know how to acquire for Sirta as I have in the past. Through rebuilding and reopening our country, the uncertainties of the Greene government will give way to the certainty and stability of years past. That Is the stability the FSP offers, the stability of having a consistent job, your pension paid, and food on your plate.

Freedom and Stability Party - For a Sirta that makes you proud

nothing to seehere fucked around with this message at Nov 30, 2017 around 18:48

Obliterati
Nov 13, 2012

Ask me about being the most Magnificent Bastard in EU4 Multiplayer.

Somebody you haven't spoken to since the Vallstein Government shares a post.

Shogeton
Apr 26, 2007

"Little by little the old world crumbled, and not once did the king imagine that some of the pieces might fall on him"

An interview given with Dubois

I: You seem to have been called back by Ms Hughes on the subject of Amnesty.

X: Oh, I don't object at all. Dawn is a party where a difference of opinion is allowed. And perhaps I am too nervous about the possibility of further war. But while Ms. Hughes and I might have different ideas of what is too much 'amnesty', we agree on the reasoning on it, and on the honesty of admitting that yes, amnesty means that people will escape Justice. That is why it is amnesty, and not simply being found innocent.

I: Dawn has also come under fire for its criticism towards the CFL.

X: I think people are entirely unfair towards her in that. They like to paint it as 'some city elite who doesn't understand what goes on in the rest of Citra. Now, I have several problems with that. One is that they seem to forget the people of the cities. People who don't really have a local CFL militia. And they like to paint city folk like they were all naïve Greene followers, but the Popular Resistance found as fertile a ground as the cities as the CFL in the towns. So there solution for 'just the CFL take over the police job' will not work in the cities.

Now, I have spent some time in the rural areas myself. I have seen the work of the CFL there, and you know what? They did a good job. Nothing is flawless, but under the circumstances, it was the best that could be held. Certainly far better than the Greene administrations efforts. And I think a lot of people in the CFL would be wonderful additions to either the police forces or the armed forces. But the CFL, as it is now, cannot take on the role itself. A police force needs to be politically neutral. If Dawn wins for example, and amnesty is granted to certain individuals that the DAF and SRLF would prefer to see imprisonned. And some of those people, they return to their homes in the small towns. And they face threats? Do you expect these people to go to an organization with close ties to the party that wants them killed and expect them to get aid? If someone from the Union of Civil Services for example starts making their case there, is the CFL a credible neutral arbiter if there are conflicts between DAF and UCS partisans?

None of these things were problems during the Revolution. We had a common enemy, and what differences we had meant little compared to the Greene administration's tyranny. But now that Tyranny is gone, and you'll find it turns out that a lot of people, in the cities, as in the villages, do have some differences of opinion with the CFL. And even if they are chosen from the villages own people, a minority opinion in that village still deserves protection under law. So I say that there can be two ways this can go. Either we re-establish a police force external of the CFL, and many CFL members who are there for the protection of their towns are very welcome to join, understanding that as a member of the police force, they are to be neutral, and they will work together with people who have differing opinions, or the CFL changes itself, and rather than a political organization, becomes a politically neutral police force and armed force.

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?




The objective here isn't to literally transplant rural CLF units into urban areas as an occupying force, but rather to expand the CLF's community policing model into areas it's not yet organized in. Police forces and militias that are organized and directly answer to the communities they serve are far preferable to a centrally controlled police force that serves some nebulous idea of the state instead of the actual people. The centralized, unaccountable model of policing is nothing less than a continuation of the Vallstein regime's oppression, and must be avoided in every way possible.

The people are the heart of the Revolution, and they alone can be trusted to safeguard it going forwards.

CourValant
Feb 25, 2016

Do You Remember Love?

Distributed as a second round of printed flyers and public radio broadcasts.

Good citizens, greetings from Eli Masamune and Kikuzakura no Kai (KNK)

As Election Day approaches, the political debates amongst you has certainly heated up, and in some instances, grown fierce.

This is a good thing; an example of freedom and democracy at work. Who could have imagined this kind of discussion even a few years ago? From kitchen tables to places of work and your local bars and restaurants, the fate of Sirta is being shaped and molded by you, the people.

Very soon, the time will come to cast your first ballot. And as you stand upon the precipice of choice, I ask again, what is it that you truly want?

Revenge? Justice? Vengeance? Peace? Satisfaction?

An easy answer would be ‘All Of The Above’. Certainly, that is an answer that some of the other Parties will give you. In fact, that is what some of the other Parties will Promise You.

My fellow citizens, if there is one thing I have learned over the past two decades, it is that there are No Easy Answers.

We all know this instinctively; nobody in this life gets everything they want, and we are all wary of anyone who would knock on our door and offer us everything we’ve every wished for, if we would just ‘believe’ in them.

Do you want to re-litigate the past? To tear open old wounds? Or, commit to building a better Sirta together, even if it’s with someone who has wronged you in the past.

Do you want another group of political leaders telling you how and where you should work? Or, do you want to choose how it is you want to earn a living and support your family.

Do you want a restored national railway system first and foremost? Or would you rather have reliable power and repaired roads, in your neighborhood, now.

Do you want to replace one group of armed men with another? Or would you like for everyone to just put down their guns.

Do you want to submit to another set of dogmatic rules and dictates from a select few? Or would you rather abide by one code of law for all Sirta.

Hard choices awaits you, my fellow citizens. Our society is more fragile than it’s ever been before, resources are limited, and we have to decide on what to invest in now, and what can be put off till later.

The Kikuzakura no Kai (KNK) does not pretend to know all the answers, or be able to fix every problem immediately. What we do know, is that Family comes first, and charity begins at home.

Take care of yourself, your loved ones, and your neighbors, and the rest will follow.

Ever your humble servant.

-Eli Masamune
Kikuzakura no Kai (KNK)

Shogeton
Apr 26, 2007

"Little by little the old world crumbled, and not once did the king imagine that some of the pieces might fall on him"

I have no intent of sending 'big time city folks' to the little towns to 'put the boot in'. I think that a police force is indeed best served by the police in question being raised in from the community they serve. However, they cannot do so under the banner of the CLF. Because the CLF is not the people. It is a military organization with very clear political views. And people who oppose those views are just as much part of the people as those who support it. Just as I cannot say that the Popular Resistance is 'The People' or that Dawn is 'The People'

Accountability is EXACTLY why the CLF cannot simply continue to be in charge as they are now. If a local CLF miltiia leader breaks the law and disrespects citizens's rights, who exactly do the complaints go to? Again my issue is not that I don't want locals in charge of their own police force. I want those police forces to be politically neutral entities, separate from the CLF as a political organization.

The Lord of Hats
Aug 22, 2010

Please... Don't read this post where other people can see...

Interview excerpt taken from an article in Markets Monthly, the current issue of which is concerned chiefly with the upcoming elections.

Interviewer: So, did you ever consider forming a party? You certainly have the reputation to succeed in politics--not just among the business community, either.

Rutherford: Well, I can't deny the idea had a certain appeal. But campaigning takes a great deal of time and energy, and I have a business to take care of in the interim. So no, I can't say I ever gave it serious consideration.

I: And if the Council nominated you? Or you were selected for a citizen's seat?

R: In that case it would be my civic duty to fulfill that obligation. But that's purely hypothetical at this point.

I: Of course, of course. But you have been rather outspoken in the meantime--your support for infrastructure projects is well-known at this point. What about the CLF policing question?

R: There's certainly not an easy answer to that one. First and foremost, I would like to say that the men and women of the CLF have done a truly admirable job of keeping order during a difficult time. But we'll soon be making the transition from "revolution" to "government", and that brings its own challenges, none of them particularly glamorous.

I: Such as?

R: Well, to start with, I think there are crimes that a local militia--which is, ultimately, what the SRLF is proposing--is never going to be equipped to handle. White collar crimes are often too abstract to be spotted without specialized training, and require resources to pursue that a community might not have available. Other issues, like corruption, can exist on too large a scale for a local organization to confront. If a criminal crosses community lines, jurisdiction issues arise, without a central body to resolve them. It's simply devolving power to too low a level, and would cripple our government's ability to evenly enforce laws. I'm not advocating transferring officers all over the place--that's a clear waste of resources--but there needs to be a central authority.

I: Interesting. And amnesty?

R: Obviously there are crimes that cannot be ignored, and must be rightfully punished. But the Greene administration was so all-encompassing that I don't believe we could condemn all those who were in some way associated without losing so much institutional knowledge that we would simply go back to before Vallstein, when organized crime was such a rampant issue, and the government so inexperienced in dealing with it, that it gave him a foothold towards dictatorship. It is hard to forgive, but for the good of Sirta, we must.

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?




After some discussion, the SRLF would like to propose a solution to the issue. The establishment of a "Militia Union." Comprised of all militia and community policing groups, it would provide a semi-centralized command structure to ensure basic competence while providing an organization to investigate large-scale crimes and prevent oversteps of local militias. A Union representative would be elected by all Union members, and be directly accountable to Parliament and the Guardian Council. This representative will be responsible for ensuring that the Union acts in accordance with the will of the people, and act as an intermediary between Parliament and the Union, being allowed Observer status in Parliament and allowed to speak during session like a voting delegate.

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

It is a foolish man indeed who attacks his fellow man when there are literal crocodile-men eating Virginians.


I applaud the proposal put forth by Comrade Luxembourg. This would assuage the concerns most have put forward of unaccountable and unmanageable local militias running around, while maintaining the flexibility and proximity to the people that are advantages of the militia model. I believe it may prove a workable model for further unionization of the populace - as the soldier finds greater strength fighting shoulder to shoulder with his comrades-in-arms, so too shall the workers and farmers. In organization, the people shall have the power to resist any who would put them back in chains, no matter what form those chains take.

AFancyQuestionMark
Feb 19, 2017


A message from Lenore Hughes appears on her party's channels in the SCN:

"I am pleasantly surprised by the SRLF's recent militia union proposal. While still far from my preferred solution, I will grant it my full support once elected, provided we can agree on the precise details. I am looking forward to cooperating with the SRLF on this and other issues, toward our common cause of helping the weakest of our society, despite our major disagreements on amnesty."

At about the same time, another press release from DAL is released:

"The recent proposal by our former comrades-in-arms seems reasonable at first glance, but can be easily subverted by regime bootlickers and criminals, some of which are running for Parliament in this election. We will not allow any organization that threatens to interfere with our and the CLF's struggle for justice. If this "militia union" becomes such an organization, we will not allow it to exist!

We will only support it on the condition that our party be involved in its' creation and have meaningful input at every stage of the process. Once more, I remind you that our struggle isn't over until the last of the regime's remnants are plucked out and punished. Our party is fully committed to this struggle and will accept no compromises that will hurt our and the CLF's capacity to wage it."

Crazycryodude
Aug 15, 2015

Lets get our X tons of Duranium back!

....Is that still a valid thing to jingoistically blow out of proportion?




The SRLF would like to graciously thank Dawn for their support, as well as reassure the CLF/DAL that they will surely be a part of the process and we had no intention of excluding them to begin with.

Shogeton
Apr 26, 2007

"Little by little the old world crumbled, and not once did the king imagine that some of the pieces might fall on him"

I join Ms. Hughes in voicing my delight at the SRLF's proposition, and feel this is an excellent blueprint to work out the details from. I hope that this is but one of many areas where we can find consensus. And while the results of the election will impact how much say the DAL will have in it, as is only fitting in a democracy, I think considering their ties to the current law enforcement in many places, it would be wise to involve them regardless for their expertise.

nothing to seehere
Nov 11, 2010


Interview with Janstin on a Vital Media produced talk show

INTERVIEWER: So, there was been much of policing and the SRLF's Millita union proposal recently: What is the FSP's view on it?

JANSTIN: Well, the FSP position is simple: One nation, one rule of law, one accountable policing body. Community policing is good at some aspects of the polices job: preventing burglary, making people feel safe, solving neighborly disputes. But if we want to have a functioning court system and the rule of law, we need people who can do more than keep the peace, pull the town drunks apart, and have a few words when the neighbors get in a tiff. We need people who are trained in investigation and evidence collection, so when a more serious crime: Domestic violence, accusations of surprise sex, a major burglary happen, they can investigate properly and not contaminate evidence when it brought to the courtroom, so everyone gets fair justice. And I'm not sure a bunch of former soldiers are the best people for that.

INTERVIEWER: So are you saying the local millita's should just disband and let the central government police them? Surely you don't think they'll agree to that.

JANSTIN: Not at all: I welcome form CLF members to join the police forces and in essence run the branches in their hometowns: They are the ones who know it best, and any outside figure would not be an effective peacekeeper in these towns anyways. But they should be part of a single national policing body, and receive crash courses on the exact laws of Sirta, judicial procedure, eccetra as soon as possible. And they fundamentally have to listen to and be under the command of whoever Minster of the Interior ends up after this election: who may well be a SRLF or DAL member anyways. But If they remain a separate body, I don't think some of our citizens would feel safe in these towns: that the local peacekeepers would look the other way if a local beat on a out-of-towner for being a "regime bootlicker" as some have called me. If all you take your power from is the local community, then you can freely run out of town anyone the majority of the community wants gone, which is not the freedom the Freedom and Stability Party stands for.

INTERVIEWER: But hasn't the SRLF said that this Militia Union would obey all laws set in Sard, and be accountable to Parliament, to prevent just what you describe.

JANSTIN: Do you what institution already obey's all laws set in Sard, and is accountable to Parliament? The police, under the minister of the Interior. This attempt by the SRLF to set up a parallel organization is dubious, for it solves nothing that simply coming under the existing structures doesn't and leaves room for the DAL to formalize their own structure of power outside the state if a election goes a way they don't like in the future. I'd like to remind the DAL that this revolution didn't end in them storming Sard: It ended through the hard work and subterfuge of Vivian Grey and many others working deep cover. I, and many other hard-working traders, would not feel conformable going to towns or selling our goods there under this system, and that is not the kind of uncertainty and instability that is good for the nation and the people in those towns.

INTERVIEWER: Some controversial statements there: I thank you for your time, and the Freedom and Stability Parties time Micheal, but now we must move onto our next section

nothing to seehere fucked around with this message at Nov 30, 2017 around 22:14

Godlovesus
Oct 16, 2015

Ask me about continually throwing myself at the enemy and losing every single time in EU4 Multiplayer.

ReSeAu Gen appeared recently on SCN Primetime with prize winning journalist Walter Anderson on the election, the following are the most relevant sections

W: This election has been particularly passionate thus far, can I ask for your current thoughts as we come closer to voting day?

R: A diversity of opinion and passion are key to any democratic process, which relies on the participation of the population to keep healthy. Indeed, it should not be considered surprising that this first election is more frenetic than usual when you take into account the many years of discourse and dissent that had been suppressed under the previous regime's authoritarian behavior.

However, I am concerned as to the potential violent undertones in the some of the language thrown around recently. The parties are meant to be representative of those that share their values and while disagreement and debate are signs of a healthy democracy, suggestions of violence and personal slander against others threaten to undo our presently fragile foundation of democratic values and principles. The Union opposes any such political tactics. Governance should be done through the ballot box, not through veiled intimidation.

W: The topic that seems to have been particularly discussed is the issue of CLF militia undertaking law enforcement activities in the countryside and the reformation of police forces. I noticed that such policies were noticeably absent from your initial campaign pledges. May I ask why?

R: The Union did not disregard the issue of law enforcement, but felt that as it was a subject that would have numerous opposing stakeholders, it would be best to present first policies upon which there were a general consensus in order to build a foundation of co-operation between parties before tackling this more emotionally charged issue. In retrospect, we regret this, as this topic has been growing more and more heated, threatening to divide any government before it's even formed.

W: So does the Union have a position on the issue?

R: Indeed. Our position was formed on consultation with Ms. Grey and rests upon 3 principals: Professionalism, Politics and Public Trust.

W: Would you care to elaborate? perhaps with concrete policy details?

R: Of course. The fact of the matter is that CLF militias have done a commendable job in an ad-hoc solution in providing basic security and law in regions essentially abandoned in the Civil War. They have essentially substituted the government's use of legitimate force with their own. In a time when the government was negligent and in opposition to those regions they were a necessary presence. However, now that a democratically elected government is in place, it is my belief that the law enforcement be handed back towards the government.

The first principle was outlined by Mr. Vanderbush. The CLF militias, while certainly adept in providing protection for citizens during a time of civil strife and armed gangs, are not professionally equipped or trained to tackle crime on a peacetime basis. It is my view that that sort of ad-hoc organization simply would not have the capacity to provide the necessary legal and judicial institutions that a peacetime nation would demand. While criticism has been labeled at existing law enforcement for being riddled corrupt and incompetent, they remain the only legitimate organ of the state for the enforcement of law and order. I would argue that under any new administration, the police, supported with a preexisting judicial framework, can be retrained into the professional organization it once was.

The second principle follows is that there is a perception, right or wrong, that the CLF militias are potentially politically compromised, being linked to both the DAL and SRLF. Recent statements by the DAL regarding the insistence to maintain these ad-hoc law enforcers threaten to present the image that the CLF is a political arm/weapon to be used by their parent organizations against others, akin to how the PSF was utilized by the Greene regime against dissidents. Any such organization would face immense difficulty in providing law and order, particularly in more urbanized environments, where there has not been any such interaction between the CLF and the public before.

Finally, should we all be truly committed to the rebuilding and strengthening of the government, we ought to focus on rebuilding and reforming existing institutions rather than copying over with another. While public trust of the police is incredibly damaged as a result of the Greene Regime, the fact remains that the government is generally considered the only legitimate entity to exert authority on matters of law enforcement. The Union believes that if the government is successful in rehabilitating the police forces, it would greatly strengthen public trust, assisting in the ability of the government to participate more in the nation with less suspicion or discord. Empowering the CLF would suggest that the government is relinquishing its authority to another, causing the reverse.

This is why the Union does not presently support the use of CLF militias in law enforcement.

W: That is certainly an interesting opinion, but would you be willing to answer questions on this a little further?

R: Certainly, The Union is in fact holding a town hall in which we attempt to assuage concerns and explore further this heavily contested issue. We look forward to the public's response

OOC: Please ask me any questions/attacks/whatever you have either on discord or here and I'll answer in the next post

Godlovesus fucked around with this message at Nov 30, 2017 around 22:29

Pakled
Aug 6, 2011

WE ARE SMART

AFancyQuestionMark: How is local and regional government organized under the new constitution?

Shogeton
Apr 26, 2007

"Little by little the old world crumbled, and not once did the king imagine that some of the pieces might fall on him"

OOC: There's a discord channel? Where?

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

It is a foolish man indeed who attacks his fellow man when there are literal crocodile-men eating Virginians.


sniper4625 posted:

A fine request, Comrade Vanderbush, and one that I'm sure my colleague Cryo will be quick to respond to. Action must be the watchword of the day, firm, decisive, and bold.

But words have their place as well, and I am pleased to announce the establishment of a open forum for minor discussion. I invite everyone to join, that we may amicably hash out the future of our great polity.

CourValant
Feb 25, 2016

Do You Remember Love?

Godlovesus posted:

OOC: Please ask me any questions/attacks/whatever you have either on discord or here and I'll answer in the next post

As Vivian Grey heads to work one morning, an unremarkable figure walks up behind her and speaks in hushed tones

"Ms. Grey, please, don't be alarmed, and do continue walking, there's no need for you to be late for work.

I bring tidings from the KNK; the following words are from Masamune.

Recent public discussions have greatly alarmed our organization; as ReSeAu Gen had put it, an armed mob is an armed mob, no matter the flag they choose to fly.

If we don't oppose these 'perpetual revolutionaries' together, the consequences could be dire.

Our interests are similar enough such that for now, we might want to consider an organized response between both our organizations?

Your safety is guaranteed, should you decide to come visit us.

The figure blends back into the crowd without another word.

HiHo ChiRho
Oct 23, 2010

Then you remember. You have a message to send.

Something everyone must know.

You have the power. You have the means.

Let it be known.




The following is a video going viral of Comrade Bookchin speaking to students in response to the statement from Janstin of the FSP:

Well, it is quite amusing to hear some of these statements, as they clearly don't understand what we are trying to achieve. We certainly are trying to create new structures to replace the current institutions, but not to merely place the SLRF as the leader of them. Greene, as vile as he was, was merely a symptom of the larger issue we have and had in place. It was the centralized structure of the government, the State as it were, that allowed Greene's regime to occur in the first place. So the FSP answer is to use the same framework that enabled the Greene regime simply because the next leaders are democratically elected? I might remind Janstin that Vallstein was originally elected democratically - and we all know how that turned out!

Put simply, the State is a professional apparatus that sets itself apart from the people and apart from the institutions that the people themselves create. It's a monopoly on violence that manages and institutionalizes social activities. The people are perfectly capable of managing themselves and creating their own institutions.

The SLRF is a tool to support efforts to work from latent or incipient democratic possibilities toward a radically new configuration of society itself— a communal society oriented toward meeting human needs, responding to ecological imperatives, and developing a new ethics based on sharing and cooperation. That it involves a consistently independent form of politics is a truism.

From the beginning, it presupposes a genuinely democratic desire by people to arrest the growing powers of the nation-state and reclaim them for their community and region. Of course, decentralization can lead to local parochialism as easily as it can lead to ecological, humanist communities. But when have basic social changes ever been without risk?

Godlovesus
Oct 16, 2015

Ask me about continually throwing myself at the enemy and losing every single time in EU4 Multiplayer.

A live broadcast of the Union's town hall in Topaz. the auditorium is jam packed and the tension is palatable in the air. ReSeAu's digitized face betrays little as he stands in front of the gathered audience, though his mechanical body squeaks almost nervously from time to time

R: ...and that is how the Union intends to tackle the underlying issues of the nation. Any questions?

A sea of hands rise, clamoring for attention

R: The gentleman in the front

A man rises, drawing some murmurs of ire from the crowd as they realize that his clothes bears the insignia of the Topaz Police Commission

A: Sir, there has been great discussion among the populace as to the role of the CLF in the new government. Several of the parties want to integrate them into the police force, others want the militia disbanded by any means necessary and some radicals
(he gazes disapprovingly at the section seating several SRLF supporters) want to replace the police entirely with them. I, personally do not think these vigilantes (boos, hisses rise from the crowd) are up to the task. What is your opinion on this?

R: It is a complicated matter to be perfectly frank. My professional opinion and experience has taught me that while ad-hoc community-based policing can provide short term basic law enforcement in the event that a professionally trained institution is unavailable to do so, they are incapable of addressing all needs in the long run, due to their lack of institutional legal and judicial training. An example of this is that while the CLF may have been successful in preventing looting or robbery in a community, they may be less able to investigate and prosecute crimes such as embezzlement or fraud due to their inexperience in criminal investigations that a police department would have. That is not to denigrate their accomplishments in a time where our own police services had been inadequate, but that moving forward, focus should be made to restoring the capacity of existing police services rather than creating a separate law enforcement organization.

Next Question? You sir on the left.

A middle aged man stands up, his body muscular and face weathered from years of farming.

B: I served in the CLF in my town of Quartz and while I get that you city folks don't think much of us out in the countryside, I have to disagree with you there. Our militia helped bring some justice and peace when your boys in blue were hiding in the city or worse, taking bribes from criminal scum to look the other way while they tried to rob us drat blind. Are you saying we don't have a place in law and order because you think we can't meet your fancy city standards? Because if so, here's what I say to that.

He spits on the floor, to the chorus of agreement from areas of the auditorium and cries of outrage from others

R calmly waiting until the noise has settled: I am not saying that a person in the countryside cannot be a member of law enforcement. Nor am I saying that law enforcement was perfect. Indeed, the militia would not even have come into being had law enforcement not failed you and for that we apologize. But in this new nation that we seek to create, Law enforcement must be an institution seen as impartial, professional and most importantly, unified. As it currently stands, the CLF does not fit that criterion. I would not be against members of the CLF to become law enforcement officers, but it must be through the reorganization and reform of current systems rather than the empowerment of an organization with the perception of partisan leanings. That would only divide us further rather than uniting us. I hope that answers your question.

The lady on the right

A well dressed businesswoman rises imperiously, scanning the SRLF section with distain.

C: My good sir, surely you do not intend to integrate potential vigilantes into the police forces? How can they be trusted or trained, as unused to the urbanized environment they are.( Anger ripples through the crowd and individuals begin to stand up in an attempt to confront the woman, who only smiles and continues )See, even now they cannot control their boorish behavior.

ReSeAu motions towards security who help separate the sections of those rising in the businesswoman's defense and those aggravated by her comments. He gestures for silence before looking steadily at the woman

R: Madam, that kind of rhetoric is what divides us and prevents the nations healing. These kinds of prejudices must be placed aside for the good of our nation. There is no evidence to support your claim that an average member of the CLF cannot serve in good faith and capacity, so long as they abide by regulation and procedure. Training and assessments by professionals will screen those capable and those incapable of serving in law enforcement, not the sensationalized opinion one might have of others.

One last question. Yes, the lady in the back

An old wizened woman of 80 stands up, her face twisted in a scowl marked by years of hardship

D: You claim that the government is the one that needs to lead us, to provide us with 'law and order'. You ask us to trust the government with powers over our safety, and security. How can you ask us that when it was the police who abandoned us in our time of need, who took bribes from scum to look the other way when they came to pillage from us and who at times even committed crimes against us and ours. she is shaking, working herself into a frenzy) They (she savagely points at the first speaker, who blanches slightly )killed my son. They, burned our homes and ripped families apart. If not for the CLF, there would be even more graves.

So how dare you stand on your high pedestal and tell us that we ought to trust our government. Because from where I see it, leaving it to our government is what got us into this mess in the first place. How do you know it won't end up the same way? What we need is the CLF. And if you're too blind to see that, I'd say you're just another crony of Greene's! The auditorium erupts into uproar as whole sections stand, some cheering with the woman and chanting "CLF CLF" while others yell about slander and treason

ReSeAu signals offstage and a loud thunderous sound erupts from the podium, shocking the participants into silence

R: Ladies and Gentlemen, please sit. This is a town hall, not a riot. While I appreciate the emotions of my supporters at this time, the purpose of this forum is to allow for the voicing of different opinions and not to suppress them in hopes of opening a mutual dialogue and understanding.

Madam. I understand your concern. Indeed, Public Trust has been collapsed due to the actions of the past two administrations. You have associated the corruption of the regime with the institution bodies and I can see your point. But this is where I have to disagree. Institutions are powered by the individuals who hold it accountable. The autocratic regimes prevented them from being held accountable. Many civil servants are loyal and honest, only to be stymied by the powers to be and those that resisted paid the ultimate price.

I would know, I was one of them.

In this new democracy, Our party seeks to re-establish that trust between people and government, to hold accountable and be held accountable by the participation of the citizenry through the ballot, not the bullet. Only by taking steps to re-establish trust between those in the citizenry and government can we fully mend the divide caused by the Civil War and I believe that the reformation of law enforcement is one of the most visible and viable ways to do so.

I can't give you back your son, but I hope to build a society where none of us never have to experience what you have again. So I ask every one of you here: Vote. Vote to keep this democracy vibrant, alive and moving towards a better future to us all

Thank you

Godlovesus fucked around with this message at Dec 1, 2017 around 10:25

AFancyQuestionMark
Feb 19, 2017


CourValant posted:


The figure blends back into the crowd without another word.

Vivian keeps walking, as though nothing happened. Nothing further comes from the encounter.

AFancyQuestionMark
Feb 19, 2017


First Sirtan Parliamentary Election result:

Total: 20 (4 player votes, 5 player members, 7 player leaders, 3 NPC leaders, 1 GM vote) – 100% - 60 seats


Party Breakdown:

* Sirtan Revolutionary Liberation Front – 6 (2 player votes, 3 player members, 1 player leader) – 30% - 18 seats

* Dawn – 3 (1 player member, 1 NPC leader, 1 GM vote) – 15% - 9 seats

* The Union of Civil Services – 2 (1 player vote, 1 player leader) – 10% - 6 seats

* Direct Action List – 2 (1 player vote, 1 NPC leader) – 10% - 6 seats

* Forward Development Group – 2 (1 player member, 1 NPC leader) – 10% - 6 seats

* Freedom and Stability Party – 1 (player leader) – 5% - 3 seats

* The Unity Coalition – 1 (player leader) – 5% - 3 seats

* verumMediae – 1 (player leader) – 5% - 3 seats

* Kikuzakura no Kai – 1 (player leader) – 5% - 3 seats

* The Community – 1 (player leader) - 5% - 3 seats


Guardian Council Appointments:

* Vera Albright (25) – Singer, Popular Resistance activist.

* Thomas Gill (36) – Investigative journalist, wrote for The Midnight Digest and other underground publications.

* Frank Probst (67) – Economics professor.

* Lucia Caldera (32) – Teacher, Popular Resistance activist.

* Sander Hansen (41) – Retired CLF commander.

* Lisa Wyatt (23) – Former Intelligence Analyst for the regime’s Department of Information, amateur poet.

* William Viner (39) – Retired Lieutenant Colonel of one of the rebellious SDF divisions.

* Roger Rockwell (53) – Lawyer, Popular Resistance activist.

* Janet Oliphant (72) – Former “Senior Coordinator” in the Intelligence Service.

* Silvia Collins (56) – Political History professor, prolific mystery fiction author.

* Rachel Hoffmann (35) – Retired CLF commander, survivor of the 24th of March massacre.

* Paul Thiede (46) – Opposition activist during Vallstein administration, released earlier this year after spending 17 years in an “unofficial” prison.

* Della Jalbert (31) – CEO of Safe Place, a charity dedicated to helping victims of human trafficking.

* Sofia Juhl (27) – Former “Consultant on Societal Modeling” for the regime’s Department of Information, chess grandmaster.

* Jade Ross (42) – Retired Captain from the SDF Special Operations Division, participated in the 7th of May coup.


Citizen Seats:

* Rutherford T. Vanderbush (The Lord of Hats) – Owner of Apex Industries.

* Jessica Ramsey (20) – Unemployed.

* Susanne Brandt (34) – Convenience store owner.

* Autumn Black (84) – Biotechnology expert, locally famous for not setting foot outside her small house in Peridot for the last 6 years.

* Grace Wright (25) – Control system technician, works at a nuclear power plant.






Parliament will convene for the first time on the 1st of January 3062.

That’s in narrative. In reality, it will convene in about 3-4 hours, once I finish writing the relevant posts. In the meantime, feel free to discuss the result.

AFancyQuestionMark fucked around with this message at Dec 1, 2017 around 14:40

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

It is a foolish man indeed who attacks his fellow man when there are literal crocodile-men eating Virginians.


We are gratified that the people yearn for a more ambitious rebuilding of our society. We hope to work with like minded parties to make advancements on a variety of fronts.

To this end, subject to confirmation from Comrade Luxembourg, I would like to announce the formation of the Peoples Coalition. This pan-party group will hopefully be able to deliver a program by, for, and of the people, focusing immediately on food, jobs, and safety, including an end to the pervasive corruption strangling our planet. I invite any group interested in doing what is right for the common citizenry to join us.

As for the rest, well, I look forward to the opening of parliament.

sniper4625 fucked around with this message at Dec 1, 2017 around 15:19

Jazerus
May 24, 2011

I'm from another time, another world. I don't even know what you people eat for lunch.



i appear to be the only person who voted in the thread itself, and if any of the citizens other than rutherford vanderbush are actual players, they never mentioned their candidacy here. well, i'm not sure vanderbush even did either, i just recognize the name from the thread

i'd like to request that this sort of business not take place exclusively in the discord, if that's where these mystery votes and mystery citizens came from

sniper4625
Sep 26, 2009

It is a foolish man indeed who attacks his fellow man when there are literal crocodile-men eating Virginians.


Jazerus posted:

i appear to be the only person who voted in the thread itself, and if any of the citizens other than rutherford vanderbush are actual players, they never mentioned their candidacy here. well, i'm not sure vanderbush even did either, i just recognize the name from the thread

i'd like to request that this sort of business not take place exclusively in the discord, if that's where these mystery votes and mystery citizens came from

They're all NPCs other than Vanderbrush, all voting has taken place itt.

Jazerus
May 24, 2011

I'm from another time, another world. I don't even know what you people eat for lunch.



sniper4625 posted:

They're all NPCs other than Vanderbrush, all voting has taken place itt.

i'm dumb and missed the other votes

carry on then

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Shogeton
Apr 26, 2007

"Little by little the old world crumbled, and not once did the king imagine that some of the pieces might fall on him"

A question for the moderator, because the subject came up. It is mentioned there were terror attacks on government targets during the civil war. How... bloody should we see that, in terms of collateral civilians dead?

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