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White Coke posted:He was friends with Himmler, or a friend of a friend of Himmler, I can't remember exactly. He was a war buddy of Gottlob Berger, who was basically Himmler's right-hand man, and responsible for the Waffen-SS expanding from a small group of armed SS men to a fighting force of nearly 1 million troops. He protected and helped Dirlewanger at every turn, and IIRC it was his idea to form a penal unit from convicts and put Dirlewanger in charge. After the war he was convicted of war crimes and executed (just kidding, he spent 6 years in prison and died in his hometown in 1975).
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Dec 12, 2017 16:14
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 So I really like Grace and Super Spech. Grace especially drew the ire of internet commentators because she used terms like "white boy" in the trailer that revealed her and, bizarrely, people started arguing that a Black Pantheresque group couldn't exist in Wolfenstein, a game universe where Nazis used Jewish Super Science to establish Moon bases. Grace, as a character, is absolutely going to rub some people the wrong way. Grace arrives with her own set of prejudices and issues that other characters in TNO and TNC just don't have and is more likely to dictate the direction of the resistance than inspire people to action the way Caroline would have. I think that is one of the more interesting dynamics, as Caroline had plans that people were on board with for most of TNO without too much friction between her and the resistance leadership. Grace's has plans, but hasn't built up the trust of the key members of the resistance when she starts sending people off on missions, so there's a level of distrust and a butting of heads between characters that would have been uncommon if Caroline were still running the show. Oh, also, the "White rear end fascist Nazi Pigs" line BJ repeats made people term TNC the SJW dream game of 2017 because reasons.
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Dec 13, 2017 02:05
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The problem is that she's a few years too early style and slang-wise ("man", "ya dig?"). It's 1961 so the Civil Rights protests and beatnik and hippie movements hadn't had a chance to happen. I would argue that since the bomb went off in 1949, she should at best reflect early 1950s culture. She doesn't talk right for the period, and even if you argue that the Nazis were able to accelerate technology and culture to a 1968-1970s level (which I think fits her and her crew much better), it would make no sense since the style and slang she uses are counter to Nazi ideals. I don't have a problem with her as a character but I do have a problem with how she exists without some sort of time-travel involved. It's the wrong era for her. I could be wrong. Can anyone find me a photo of people dressed like her in or before 1961?
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Dec 13, 2017 03:16
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This is a game where the Nazis built huge mechanical dogs, BJ destroys a bridge across the strait of Gibraltar with a levatating ball that shoots harpoons into things and spins and the main character wears power armor made sometime in the 1700's. They can have a Pam Grier character without having her need to be era appropriate.
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Dec 13, 2017 03:48
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Lazyfire posted:This is a game where the Nazis built huge mechanical dogs, BJ destroys a bridge across the strait of Gibraltar with a levatating ball that shoots harpoons into things and spins and the main character wears power armor made sometime in the 1700's. They can have a Pam Grier character without having her need to be era appropriate. Don't forget J from the previous game as well.
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Dec 13, 2017 04:08
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Look, I do not care if Grace is a few-seconds-removed-from-being-blaxsplotation type of character. If she can kill Nazis, that's fine for me. I mean, the last game had Jimi Hendrix fighting Nazis; I fully expect something even more over the top for this game, like Al Davis or Deforest Kelly fighting the Nazis.
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Dec 13, 2017 04:41
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Honestly, Gracebeing a blaxploitation character makes it even better, in my book. What better way to counter Nazi identity than with the blackest of black portrayals*? *I hope that wasn't offensive; I'm not American, so I don't really know how blaxploitation's seen there.
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Dec 13, 2017 05:41
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Max. Beat. Set. For the longest while, I thought Set was humoring Max, but when he rage quit like that, well, that was certainly something else.
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Dec 13, 2017 05:48
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berryjon posted:Max. Yeah Set was a real putz there, what gives? Max likes colouring and moving the horsies, what's wrong with that Set 
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Dec 13, 2017 09:30
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mastersord posted:I don't have a problem with her as a character but I do have a problem with how she exists without some sort of time-travel involved. It's the wrong era for her. Maybe that stuff's showing up a bit early because getting invaded by nazis kicked the civil rights movement into high gear. Alternate history, ya dig? Speaking of which, "man" and "ya dig?" have been slang terms since like the '30s, man.
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Dec 13, 2017 11:11
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Eesh, the animation on that kid reminded me of Fallout 4.
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Dec 13, 2017 17:54
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Gargamel Gibson posted:Maybe that stuff's showing up a bit early because getting invaded by nazis kicked the civil rights movement into high gear. Alternate history, ya dig? I'll accept that. I'm not used to hearing them is all.
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Dec 14, 2017 02:36
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Maybe I missed it, but how did the resistance get to and from the state building if everything near ground level was lethally radioactive?
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Dec 14, 2017 03:28
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Gorilla Salad posted:Maybe I missed it, but how did the resistance get to and from the state building if everything near ground level was lethally radioactive? They weren't worried about the Nazis shooting down their choppers, they were worried Grace's people would shoot down their choppers (assuming them to be Nazis) unless they got someone to make contact and tell them the choppers were Kreisau. E: I was confused about that when I played for myself, too, but it makes sense now.
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Dec 14, 2017 03:30
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No, I mean day to day. Before BJ arrived with the helicopters, how did the resistance go about fighting the nazis and getting supplies? I suppose they could have had their own rad suits, but doesn't that mean every time they left the building they had to climb a ladder 100 floors high?
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Dec 14, 2017 04:14
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Gorilla Salad posted:No, I mean day to day. They had an elevator powered by symbolism.
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Dec 14, 2017 04:21
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Gorilla Salad posted:No, I mean day to day. Easy, the nukes' warheads were enriched with plotonium.
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Dec 14, 2017 08:38
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Gorilla Salad posted:No, I mean day to day. We'll see later that apparently you just need like a filter mask to be ok in the radiation in NYC. Outside of that, there's actually more to the hideout, so it isn't impossible there are other ways in/out and that BJ just sort of brute forced his way in.
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Dec 14, 2017 15:25
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CommissarMega posted:Honestly, Gracebeing a blaxploitation character makes it even better, in my book. What better way to counter Nazi identity than with the blackest of black portrayals*? Modern views on blaxploitation in the US tend to be that it really depends on context. Here, we have a black woman and mother with a power afro as the leader of the American resistance against the Nazis, so I suspect Grace gets a pass outside that... certain segment of video game players.
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Dec 14, 2017 23:38
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How did the resistance even manage to hide in such an obvious location anyway? If even one nazi commander was smart enough to check it before BJ left a literal trail for them to follow it would have been over. But instead of looking in low rad areas they just wander aimlessly through the ruins? And what if some megalomaniac nazi officer had wanted to establish a command post in a famous NY landmark where he could look down on the remains of the city while führiously masturbating?
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Dec 15, 2017 00:09
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Poil posted:How did the resistance even manage to hide in such an obvious location anyway? If even one nazi commander was smart enough to check it Wyatt addressed this in game 1: "The one good thing about Nazis is, they really are that stupid."
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Dec 15, 2017 00:10
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Night10194 posted:Wyatt addressed this in game 1: "The one good thing about Nazis is, they really are that stupid." 
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Dec 15, 2017 00:11
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Poil posted:How did the resistance even manage to hide in such an obvious location anyway? If even one nazi commander was smart enough to check it before BJ left a literal trail for them to follow it would have been over. But instead of looking in low rad areas they just wander aimlessly through the ruins? And what if some megalomaniac nazi officer had wanted to establish a command post in a famous NY landmark where he could look down on the remains of the city while führiously masturbating? To misquote Hans Landa, the thing about Nazis is they're scum of the Earth, so they spend all their time looking for the Resistance in the subways and under the floorboards because that's where they would hide.
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Dec 15, 2017 01:10
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 Nuclear weapons play a huge role through the current slate of Wolfenstein games, which I have found pretty interesting. I mean, most of the first game was built towards being able to launch a nuke at Deathshead, so there was that. But then in this game you have the whole plot point about the Nazis in section F having nukes, New York is nuked out and of course Grace has plans for nukes. Also this game opened with the circle nuking Deathshead's compound despite the man being in several pieces at that point. Nuclear weapons are a fascinating topic partially because they have shaped our modern world and play a major role in national politics and international diplomacy still, partially because of the sheer power and complexity of the devices. Because of these two sides of nuclear weapons you can put a bomb in the hands of whatever bad guy in a movie or show or comic and have an immediate existential threat that just about anyone who has heard of an atom bomb can understand, but also involve several layers of bureaucracy for the main character to have to work through and provide a convenient reason for why the villain can't just launch an attack right away ("Once I have the arming codes...") without the situation seeming even more contrived than some terrorist being able to steal or buy a nuclear weapon in the first place. The fact that the resistance has used nukes and continues to possess them (I wonder if the Nazis revealed that to the populace or not) has to be terrifying to your average Nazi citizen. What stops the Kriceau Circle from targeting them if they are willing to assault a member of the Nazi leadership with such a weapon. Because nukes are terrifying even in alternative history scenarios BJ and his band of freedom fighters are the perfect bad guy for the Nazis. Sure, the Nazis used atom bombs on civilian populations, but I would think that the Nazis in this game would probably find some common ground with most modern nations in the real world around the topic of nuclear proliferation. Mostly in the sense that more nukes in more places is a bad thing rather than good.
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Dec 15, 2017 03:38
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CommissarMega posted:Honestly, Grace being a blaxploitation character makes it even better, in my book. What better way to counter Nazi identity than with the blackest of black portrayals*? The game really does point out that the resistance to the Nazis is generally made up of minorities and other 'undesirables.' That's the point of Sigrun defecting once her mom outs her as a 'deviant' to the rest of the Nazis, I think, and part of why both Wyatt/Fergus get crippled in the game. Lazyfire posted:
This might be going much more deeply into history than the game did, but I want to say that the role of nuclear weapons is super interesting because the Nazis considered nuclear physics "Jewish Science" and disdained it. This adds another layer of detail into the Manhattan level because that means that the Nazis won WW2 by 100% making use of stolen Jewish Science. Not even their 'mundane' victories via the A-Bomb were built on things the Nazis actually liked, but rather the entirety of the Nazi victory is based off of Da'at Yichud Jewish Science or Regular Jewish Science. I suspect that given this, the fact that the resistance are much more nuke-happy than the Nazis is entirely fitting.
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Dec 15, 2017 04:34
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I think the word you're looking for at the beginning of the video about the broken English would be patois or creole. Or pidgin.MJ12 posted:The game really does point out that the resistance to the Nazis is generally made up of minorities and other 'undesirables.' That's the point of Sigrun defecting once her mom outs her as a 'deviant' to the rest of the Nazis, I think, and part of why both Wyatt/Fergus get crippled in the game. And Caroline herself was apparently a lesbian. I'm surprised LGBT people haven't been more prominent in these games, given that they were targeted by the Holocaust. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Dec 15, 2017 |
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Dec 15, 2017 04:43
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That Jew science bit reminded me that the Nazis, if I recall correctly, believe that ice was the cornerstone of the universe, because Superior Nordic Science or some poo poo. The guy who came up with the, uh, 'theory' was just looking at the Moon and figured "Hey, that looks like ice, so why the gently caress not?" I cannot imagine what the scientific landscape would have looked like with those nuts in charge for so long.
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Dec 15, 2017 05:15
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If anybody even knows that the resistance has nukes. What have we found so far about how the Nazis spun Deathhead's, uh, death? Blanket denial?
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Dec 15, 2017 06:21
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I really like the emphasis the characters place on survival being an act of defiance.
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Dec 15, 2017 12:14
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Glazius posted:If anybody even knows that the resistance has nukes. As well see later, the nazis have a powerful grip on media and news. Naxi state propaganda and pro-nazi media are almost the sole form of media left in post-nazi USA.
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Dec 15, 2017 12:49
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Cythereal posted:I think the word you're looking for at the beginning of the video about the broken English would be patois or creole. Or pidgin. Yes, patois, that was it. Jesus that was driving me nuts. quote:And Caroline herself was apparently a lesbian. I'm surprised LGBT people haven't been more prominent in these games, given that they were targeted by the Holocaust. Glazius posted:If anybody even knows that the resistance has nukes. It took me a moment, but this made me realize I've had the first Readables video uploaded for over a week and haven't linked it/left it unlisted. I'll post that tonight and things may make more sense on both of these topics.
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Dec 15, 2017 13:03
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The only problem I have with Grace is that she kinda instantly becomes your boss, filling Caroline's shoes, which felt unearned even if she was cool and brought a huge intel network onto the Evas Hammer. She's definitely great overall though and earns the position over the course of the game and then some, it just feels wrong at first. The "white-rear end fascist pigs" line from BJ was obviously him trying on Grace's shoes before deciding they don't fit and it was hilarious.
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Dec 15, 2017 14:29
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The idea of white America going along with this is also frighteningly plausible. The modern idea of the concentration camp was invented by the British during the Boer War, and the USA was until WW2 the leading nation in the world at instituting eugenics laws - mainly aimed at forced sterilization of people with "incurable and inheritable criminal tendencies." If you think that's code for racial and sexual minorities, you're right on the money. Oh and the last of these forced sterilization laws wasn't struck down until the 1970s.
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Dec 15, 2017 14:45
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Chillgamesh posted:The "white-rear end fascist pigs" line from BJ was obviously him trying on Grace's shoes before deciding they don't fit and it was hilarious. BJ's fundamental decency despite being a kill machine is one of the best parts of his character.
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Dec 15, 2017 14:49
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Cythereal posted:The idea of white America going along with this is also frighteningly plausible. The modern idea of the concentration camp was invented by the British during the Boer War, and the USA was until WW2 the leading nation in the world at instituting eugenics laws - mainly aimed at forced sterilization of people with "incurable and inheritable criminal tendencies." If you think that's code for racial and sexual minorities, you're right on the money. The Nazis basically asked the white-straight-Christian Americans to sell out the minorities, which they already hated and denied political and social agency to *before* the openly fascist, white supremacist regime took power. It's perfectly plausible, especially when presumably those white-straight-Christians that refused to go along with the rounding up of Jews, blacks, gays, etc. got dragged out into the street and  'd at best.Night10194 posted:BJ's fundamental decency despite being a kill machine is one of the best parts of his character. I could honestly imagine him as a Mr. Rogers-type, if it weren't for all the goddamn Nazis what need killin'
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Dec 15, 2017 15:26
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Chillgamesh posted:
Blasko is the Mr. Rogers with the rumoured psycho-soldier background. But since he's psycho against Nazis, he's still a pretty great person.
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Dec 15, 2017 16:44
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Chillgamesh posted:I could honestly imagine him as a Mr. Rogers-type, if it weren't for all the goddamn Nazis what need killin' The main thing he dreams of is a world where none of what he does is necessary and he can just be happy raising a family. He is an FPS protagonist who dearly, dearly wishes there was no FPS. There is, though, so lotta things you can do with a hatchet and a nazi.
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Dec 15, 2017 16:48
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 One of the things about doing note collections based on which area the notes/articles are found in is that because the game will drop new notes in places like the Evas Hammer or on return trips to some levels you have to be careful that nothing gets spoiled. Luckily, there were only a few notes that fit that bill here, so you are getting almost everything the Evas Hammer and the Ausmerzer have to offer. My plan is to eventually get screenshot dumps of this up if people find the half hour video to be a bit much. There are just a lot of screenshots. 74 of them, actually. The thing is that some of the notes are an awkward length and so on the third screenshot of a note you end up getting just a single new sentence, or someone signing a letter. I think the video ends up working a bit better because of that.
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Dec 16, 2017 03:27
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The fella doing the Dishonored 2 LP transcribes the lot, which neatly avoids those problems. Doesn't help for stuff with graphics, but transcription should cut down on the screenshot count regardless.
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Dec 16, 2017 05:59
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Chillgamesh posted:The "white-rear end fascist pigs" line from BJ was obviously him trying on Grace's shoes before deciding they don't fit and it was hilarious. And contrary to the tone of the trailer, the "You take freedom from the American people and you're playing with fire." line isn't just some Oo-rah, USA! USA! line but BJ trying to convince himself as much as anyone else that there are some good white americans left who will join the fight.
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Dec 16, 2017 19:01
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