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Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

omg chael crash posted:

It was honestly a pretty fun game if you didn't expect the best RPG ever made or whatever. The music, colors, and whimsical nature of everything really helped make it stand out compared to every other grim or serious RPG. The combat was neat too as long as you didn't craft and one shot literally everything.

gently caress Curt Shilling though

Agreed. Amalur was decent enough game, but it was severely hampered by the fact that it was meant to just be a precursor to an MMORPG and played like one. Meaning massive areas filled with repetitive quests and characters that I cannot be bothered to remember. Combine that with the incredible arrogance of its makers and you end up with one of the biggest disasters in gaming history.

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Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Cythereal posted:

We know virtually nothing about it right now, people are just being (understandably, in my opinion) pessimistic.

Given what we've seen and been told about Bioware's behind-the-scenes problems, I agree that pessimism is warranted. The setting alone looks like it wouldn't be that conducive to the Bioware-style of RPG dozens of hours of meandering with NPCs.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~
I want some follow up on the hints of “Those from Across the Sea” we got in Inquisition.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Skippy McPants posted:

Sure, but Bull is a party member and everyone in your party is always a super special snowflake exempt from the standard conventions for the setting. That said, he is clear proof that not everyone born under the Qun fits in, and while they might have systems for relieving or minimizing that pressure there is no way that they are as perfect as the Qunari leadership would like everyone to believe.

Bull fit in well at first. It’s just that his duty as a spy gave him a unique perception that lead to him burning out on the whole thing even if he wasn’t willing to straight up leave on his own.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~
Who could have foreseen a game designed solely to act as a perpetual money sink made by people not at all prepared for such a thing on orders of incompetent EA executives would fail? Oh right, everyone except for EA’s higher ups.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Sexual Aluminum posted:

Dragon age doesn’t seem like it will work as a live service / not single player game.

Unfortunately, EA will demand it somehow fit that mold to ensure lasting profits. I don’t hold too much hope for it unless it is mostly separate like the Inquisition multiplayer.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Cythereal posted:

DA2, but done properly: a small-scale game unfolding over a long span of time in one place, about a group of Inquisition spies sent into Tevinter.

It was supposedly bigger than that, but much smaller than Inquisition since the designers got enough feedback to tell that the empty fields and shallow busywork of that game was what made up the majority of its size.

It sounded great, but so did DA2 once upon a time, so I don’t put too much stock into it. It would almost certainly be better than whatever money pit EA will demand be made in its place.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~
As much as I liked DAI, I wouldn’t even ignore its flaws as a narrative or its bloated, boring gameplay of trudging around empty wilderness, fighting off repetitive mobs of enemies with entirely too much health every few steps.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Ginette Reno posted:

Inquisition's actual content is pretty solid. I enjoyed it. The problem is there's a poo poo ton of filler.

I wish Bioware would just go back to doing what they do best which is making a DA:O/Kotor style game where they don't focus on having huge open world areas and instead focus on having 4-5 well done city/town hubs.

Or if they insist on doing the open world areas then take a page out of The Witcher's book and actually write some interesting content and don't do 10 bear asses.

They absolutely can write interesting content because the core quests in each new area in DA:I are generally pretty good/interesting. The problem is those quests are like 10% of those areas and the other 90% is filler stuff.

Agreed. The compulsion yo make massive maps without bothering to have anything to fill them was the downfall of Inquisition. Trim the areas by half and add at least one more city, and you get a much better experience from the game.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~
Don’t forget that EA is demanding that every game be a multiplayer money sink. The company couldn’t care less about single player games: they want something that gives them constant profit as soon as possible.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

A Buff Gay Dude posted:

Not really and it showed all the cracks forming.

It was slick and polished and technically solid though.

That’s more in hindsight than anything. On its own, the game was great, but Bioware clearly had no idea what to do with the narrative after that and scrapped most of the big hints that the game was building towards in a misguided attempt to appeal to newcomers at the tail end of a trilogy. It lead to the infamous :speculate: thanks to poor project management and unrealistic deadlines that lead them to not even having an ending written three months until the shipping date. Features that, sadly, now almost define the company.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~
I still say that the Arishok was the best villain in the franchise. All he wanted was to get out of Kirkwall, but the endless fanatics pissed him off to the point where he wanted to burn it down and fixe the city by force. To related to him so much by that point.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~
Oh the DAO combat shuffle and Rock-Em-Sock-Em animations are burned into my memories. Animations that have so little to do with when the game acknowledges damage should not have happened in a game from 2009z

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

NikkolasKing posted:

From what we see of Iron Bull, the qunari just don't care much about sex. I always thought it was the only interesting thing about his character. Sexual urges are a near-universal biological necessity, no more and no less so just get them outta the way and focus on more important things.

You get incels in a sexually repressive culture built on patriarchy.

From what Bull says, they treat being horny the same way we’d treat a vitamin deficiency: get the necessary supplements and a bit of rest, then back to work.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

KittyEmpress posted:

Yeah DA2 makes sure you know both sides are horrific. Every mage in Kirkwall is a blood mage because the templars literally rape mages for fun, and use the rite of tranquility on any that resist.

This then sends them looking for any way to fight back, and surprise surprise, they start using the scary forbidden demon power that everyone is scared of to do so.

DAII tried way too hard to make a terribly oppressive system seem justified by making basically every mage either a ticking time bomb or just some offscreen fodder. It then went on to show the Templars engage in just about every abuse of power possible before arbitrarily deciding to go on to straight up genocide. They then made very, very weak attempts at the handful of characters supposed to represent either group “sympathetic” before they were either killed or disappeared forever.

Their ham-handed need to “balance” an inherently unbalanced scenario only made everyone in Kirkwall come off worse. By the end of it all, I just wanted that whole city to burn because everyone in it was either terrible or irrelevant.

Geostomp fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Apr 17, 2020

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

ilitarist posted:

The worst thing is if Solas and/or Qunari threat repeat the fate of Mages/Templars conflict. That conflict was interesting and nuanced but Inquisition made it an Act 1 with both forces acting as Worf to show you how cool that new world-ender is. He has no nuance or depth but now you can have a lot of characters all uniting in a single army they way they could never do against a more interesting enemy.

I would like it if Solas was more in line with what Flemeth was: a force moving in the background, waiting for the right time to make his move. The end of Inquisition says he’s gathering elves together, so I’d like to see some of that rather than jump straight to the goal. I know that even downtrodden elves would find “merge realities with spirits and wipe out everyone else as a byproduct” to be a kind of a hard sell, so let him need more time to establish his power base as a living god before he gets to the whole “reverting reality” idea.

Just don’t make him a cackling villain or footnote for the threat of the week. He seemed to really want to be proven wrong by someone he trusted, so give us some options here. I do want him to succeed at least partially and cause some fundamental change in the world that isn’t easily reverted just to shake things up for possible sequels.

Geostomp fucked around with this message at 16:27 on Apr 20, 2020

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Nephthys posted:

Whats crazy is the the Coryheus fight in the DA2 dlc was already done so much better than the version in Inquisition. The build up to him in a character was also way better and sold him as a 100% serious threat.

In that game he was an ancient, unknowable threat that warped minds just by existing. He used all the elements in his boss battle in creative ways and required rituals just to weaken him enough to make it possible to hurt him.

Then came Inquisition and he was a sap spewing villain cliches that couldn’t adapt worth a drat and had a massive temper tantrum in his fairly standard fight.

I know the implication was that Hawke and Co are weaker or less prepared than the other crews and the Inquisitor had his one weakness, but still. He had a steep fall.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Smol posted:

KE's defensive skills skills Fade Shield, Fade Cloak and Ice Armor make you immortal if you can deal damage fast enough. Spamming Spirit Blade was never the best way to deal damage though, it was merely sufficient.

It was the best way to deal with defenses pre-patch.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Skippy McPants posted:

Mage is the best class, lore-wise, to play in every game but the most important character choice to make in DA2 is to always pick the sarcastic replies so you get Smarmy Hawke. Once you have that personality soft-locked the game's bullshit is a lot more tolerable.

It’s much easier to accept the game when even the main character is acting like they don’t want to take the idiocy around them seriously. I would expect nothing less from Varric’s best friend.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~
Anders was just the wrong sort of person to be expected to lead to any positive change. The mages needed a figure to rally behind. One who could somehow have enough clout, patience, and cleverness to manage to get their message out without the Templars suppressing it. It’s a rare sort of person with even rarer connections. All of which are things Anders lacks.

The thing is, Anders admitted that himself earlier. In his rational moments, he admits he’s no leader and that the mages are too fractured to stand a chance in battle. The problem is that we aren’t dealing with just Anders anymore. He let himself host a creature of pure emotion that has no concept of complexity or patience into his mind out of some misguided idea that this would somehow help both serve others. Even that wouldn’t have been too bad if not for the fact that his own issues warped said creature into a dark parody of itself. Instead of adding the skills he needed, all he got was intense motivation, lessened control, and a power boost. Now we have a man hosting a borderline demon who has a desperate desire to cause change, but none of the abilities needed to enact his will or even calm down in a place of endless corruption. That’s dangerously stressful for a normal person, but disastrous for an abomination. It was only a matter of time before the frustration turned broke him into the same irrational force of destruction most abominations are.

Geostomp fucked around with this message at 11:04 on May 23, 2020

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~
See all this talk about getting the mages together to take a stand ignores that Anders didn’t do any of that. He started a big fight, but did so without any support or even knowledge of the Circle. He didn’t even have any escape routes planned for them. He sentenced them to a battle they didn’t want and had no preparation for because he had to be the big martyr. It wasn’t about the mages’ safety anymore, it was about his own frustration and desire for symbolic victory at any cost.

Anders may have had lofty ideals of freedom, but starting the battle showed nothing but despicable selfishness. All because he wasn’t rational or creative enough to take the time to look beyond his immediate circle of friends for a long term solution.

Worst of all, it was pointless in the end. The circumstances that did lead to change had nothing to do with his actions and were impossible for him to have predicted.

Edit:

Also, don’t go glorifying the Venatori or Red Templars as any sort of freedom fighters. Both are vicious raiders and slavers who happily sacrifice civilians for their personal power. Their leaders may be delusional enough to convince themselves that there is some nobility in what they do, but they’re really just lackeys of a darkspawn with delusions of grandeur hoping to at his side when he takes over. They may have valid points, but that doesn’t change the fact that they’re just as cruel and destructive as the forces they claim to oppose.

Geostomp fucked around with this message at 07:09 on May 24, 2020

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

Unite: MASH!!
~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

NikkolasKing posted:

I never said they were good, I said they were responding to a bad situation. People like Anders and Samsons don't just pop up out of nowhere, they are forged through cruelty and injustice.They take the often wrongheaded approach they do because they see no other alternative. And why should they? Things have been like this for centuries. The only hope they can see are desperate acts like siding with a demigod such as Corypheus or removing the possibility for things to remain as they were. But they wouldn't take such actions if the people in power could be deposed through other means. But The Chantry is the strongest force in Thedas. A few unhappy mages and Templars can do nothing.


And what Anders did played some role in things getting better. Forget the lovely book Assunder for a second, Inquisition starts with the Templars coming to a peace talk with the Mages. They were negotiating as equals for the first time ever. That never would have happened if they were still in the Circle and they only left the Circle and started the war that forced the Templars to take them seriously due to Anders.

Also why do people always neglect to mention that Anders and Anders alone destroyed the Chantry yet Meredith decided to massacre a bunch of innocent mages? Anders was: a) an Abomination, as Meredith herself saw, and B) Not a member of the Kirkwall Circle. Yet Merdith turns right around when he shows up and confesses what he did and goes off to slaughter a bunch of innocent mages.

That is what really started everything. If Meredith had just beheaded him, no war, no problems at all. No one would mourn an Abomination Apostate. But she tried to Annul the totally blameless Circle. Really, Meredith started the war. She showed there could be no peace.

Anders had, at best, indirect influence on the mages getting freedom. He started a battle they had no chance of winning and poisoned public opinion of them even worse than ever by announcing he did this in their name. He had no plan for what would happen after this one event and was perfectly willing to volunteer the entire Circle to join him in his martyrdom without so much as warning them beforehand. He didn’t even set up anything to so much as weaken the Templar forces before this, making the battle as hard as possible for the mages.

Meredith was fully capable of beheading him while he stood raving. She could have easily used his attack to justify executing the entire Circle quietly with full Chantry and public support. Even with her irrational response, the Templars still had the majority of public support for this slaughter thanks to good old Anders linking the mages to his crime. The only possible outcome for this whole event would be the mages somehow escaping in decent numbers, but even that was undermined because Anders didn’t do anything to make that possible. Even the idea of starting a war for freedom was idiotic because the mages are outmanned 1000-to-1 and have nothing resembling leadership, allies, supplies, battle experience, or even so much as a place to hide to make an extended war possible. We saw in Inquisition that the war was a disaster for them. They only survived because of factors impossible to control or predict. Not that it would matter as violent revolts for civil rights never works.

He wasn’t a rebel leader. He had a somewhat accurate view of the problem, but an insane idea of a solution. He was an idealistic terrorist who was just fine with letting the people he claimed to support die in droves to sate his own anger and impatience.. Worse, his actions sabotaged the first pro-mage Divine’s efforts to reform the Circle system, squandering a once-in-a-lifetime chance for the mages. Most mages, even the ones who wanted rebellion, hate his guts and decry him as a madman afterwards because he did it in the worst possible way.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Cythereal posted:

I take that stuff to mean that Sera is natively a mage, but she is so repressed and hosed up in the head that she can't use her potential.

He even tricks her into seeing through the Breach at one point and she panics the entire time she’s in the Fade if you take her, complaining of voices. She’s a Mage that is too terrified to ever acknowledge her powers.


exquisite tea posted:

Cole is so much worse than Sera.

He’s weird and creepy, but otherwise okay. At least now that he’s figured out ways to help people beyond mercy kills.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Oh dear me posted:

I think the general complaint about companions was that they were dull and clichéd rather than odious.

But at your very first mission you can remind Liam of the 'no first use of force' rule and he will up and shoot the first alien he sees anyway. He does not improve. And no, you can't ever express even mild dislike.

Meanwhile you have two gay crew members (not companions). I don't know how far you are so I won't say anything more about them, except that their story arcs* are an insult.

*Ok, the lesbian doesn't actually have one of these, but you know what I mean

They had horrendous lines and were often painfully stupid and annoying. That first mission made me realize that I was going to hate both human squad mates and Rider him/herself more than ever before.


ilitarist posted:

She does use mind control. Also many players never even had a choice between Morinth and Samara.

If that had lasting consequences, I would accept it, but the recruiting Morinth at all still seems like something added just to provide an “evil” option for no reason. Granted, keeping a manipulative sociopath onboard is probably less dangerous than the unstable topless woman who could rip the ship apart around, but it’s still some pointless edginess in a game that was already kind of pushing it with crew members. Especially since she’s just made into a Banshee in the next game offscreen.

exquisite tea posted:

Keeping Loghain alive against his own will for 2 games and counting has been endlessly entertaining. I hope he never dies.

It is funny to see him constantly denied the heroic sacrifice he clearly wants. That and his rebuttal to the Nightmare Demon’s attempts to guilt trip him are worth all of it.

Geostomp fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Jun 4, 2020

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

Lord Cyrahzax posted:

Crying Leliana is a theme in Inquisition's concept art




Eimi posted:

It's the crying Leliana that really makes it hilarious. Like woman is the murder queen by that point.

The only explanation I can come up with is that the concept art was made with the assumption Leliana was basically her Origins self. They decided to move her in a much more stabby direction after that.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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venomsnek posted:

Crying is pretty reasonable given the circumstances first she lost her religious leader then if I’m not mistaken in that image she’s just lost her Empress.

That’s a lot to handle for anyone in her position

They also have her crying over the Empress getting stabbed when she’s the one who advocated letting it happen. Clearly something did not line up with the artist and final story.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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~They've got the bad guys on the run!~

ApplesandOranges posted:

Maybe it's just rose tinted glasses but I feel like Inquisition made more problems than they fixed.

DA2 had a good friendship/rivalry system where the only real issue is that once you maxed it out it didn't matter anymore. Inquisition just decided, screw rivalry, friendship or bust, also let's make the exact gains invisible.

DA2 had a good, decently polished gambit system! Inquisition just shrugged and made your team members dodos with a potion chugging problem.

DA2 had a fairly straightforward story with the issue of reusing too many maps and a railroaded last third of the game. Inquisition just bloated it with sidequests, maps that are too big and overstayed their welcome, and an ending that was so flat they had to make a DLC ending.

DA2 had the issue of enemies/antiheroes that were too flawed/nuanced and you could do nothing to fix them. Inquisition gave you a cackling Saturday morning villain.

Let’s not put on rose colored glasses for DAII. It had interesting ideas, but it was much more of a mess than Inquisition was.

That said, Inquisition was disappointing with its bloat and oversimplifications. I don’t have high hopes for DA4 with Bioware’s recent track record and desperation to prop up the abysmal Anthem at EA’s demand.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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Nefarious 2.0 posted:

me3 was terrible fan fiction from start to finish. none of it is canon

Ironically, the best part of the game was when they dropped all pretense and went all in on goofy fanservice in the final DLC. It let you ignore the awful, rushed story and just have one last hurrah with the cast.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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ApplesandOranges posted:

Y'know, everyone talks a lot about the differences in romance/story between the MEs but does the gameplay actually change or improve significantly between games? I've never played a ME and it's always been in the 'maybe someday...' category because the advertised gameplay didn't jump out at me.

MEII was miles ahead of the original. It was a fairly basic shooter, but the original was a complete mess that had nothing resembling balance and heavily limited responsiveness. It usually boiled down to “knock down enemy, hose them with endless bullets for at least 10 seconds” in higher levels.

MEIII was a relatively minor tweak on MEII that made it a bit more dynamic and punished camping behind one bit of cover for the whole fight.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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Cythereal posted:

I'm really fond of 'equip four grenade launchers.'

Pistol? Scorpion or Acolyte.

Shotgun? Venom.

Assault Rifle? Striker.

Sniper Rifle? Chrysae.


Only the poor SMG slot doesn't have a grenade launcher.

That actually screwed some people over. One scene at the start of the game requires you to make multiple rapid pistol shots, but since that one pistol can only shoot slowly, the scene was impossible to complete if you had that DLC weapon equipped. The game doesn’t warn you about it at all.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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Let’s not forget the weapons skill trees that left your special forces badass unable to shoot straight for half the game. Also that everyone had four guns at all times, but were only able to use maybe two of them to any meaningful degree. If you weren’t an Infiltrator or Soldier, the only way you could fight with the sniper rifle was to beat someone to death with it.

We aren’t even getting into the inventory that had you max out credits and omnigel in hours with the deluge of increasingly irrelevant gun parts. Or the enemy biotics that left you completely helpless while they slowly shot out your shields. Or the pointless stats like hardening that have little to no relevance in combat since shields were all-important.


ME1 shows exactly what you get when people who have only worked with medieval-style fantasies try to make a sci-fi shooter. I can’t be bothered to go back to it.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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I’ll take “overused, but competent” over “experimental, but lousy”. ME2’s combat was basic for a shooter with RPG elements, but ME1 had a bloated RPG an abysmal shooter tacked on.

The original had some interesting ideas, but it clearly didn’t know what to do with them and carried over far too many unnecessary elements that just didn’t need to be there. Worse, it took away from the setting when your soldier can’t shoot accurately at someone more than fifteen feet away until you put in a few more points, everything drops gun mods that do little more than add more numbers to the exact same performance, or enemies had so much health and shields that they could walk off being ground into the wheel well of your armed rover.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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Dawgstar posted:

And Velanna's loyalty quest would only trigger as a random encounter that was never actually guaranteed to trigger so you could just be going from location to location for eternity and it would never pop.

It would also be impossible to trigger if she was the last companion. DAO was infamously buggy, but Awakening was a mess held together with chewing gum and prayer.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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NikkolasKing posted:

"Only" 2 hours. That's never something that should be said about a lovely part of a video game.

I recall KOTOR II having better dark side and light side options than the first game. Like, significantly better. Yes you can still randomly kill people for no good reason but even if you try to pull poo poo like that, Kreia will tear into you. So you got good guy options, more morally ambiguous or at least rational evil options, and then puppykicking to round things out. KOTOR 1 was just puppykicking or boy scout.

Also KOTOR 1 is painfully simplistic but BW clearly got a lot better later on. See the games this thread is supposed to be about. Except in DAI which offers no moral choices of any real value outside of choosing the ruler of Orlais.

They did put in some good options for Kreia to still rip into you. Like that beggar who you simply can't positively effect.

Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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Skippy McPants posted:

It's iconic across the series that it earned the moniker Murder Knife.

The fact that everyone, from the biggest warrior to the scrawniest mage comes equipped with this same knife just in case they need to shank someone with that personal touch was a favored part of the series to me.

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Geostomp
Oct 22, 2008

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The only part of Golems that was at all worthwhile was the weapon it gives you that sells for a ridiculous amount of gold in new playthroughs.

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