Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Torrannor posted:

I never got what made him popular enough to be brought back in DA2, but his inclusion in Inquisition made sense.
Cullen became popular thanks to fanfic writers. If you play as a female mage in DA:O, Cullen has something like three lines that indicate he has a crush on you. The Bioware forums jumped on that and lots of smutfics were born.
Basically the same thing that happened to Tali from ME, though slightly less awful (people liking Tali because she was so "innocent" in ME1 will never stop creeping me out).

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

snoremac posted:

In DA:O what stat should I increase if I like my mage making ranged attacks with a staff?
Magic is the only stat that influences staves. Staff projectiles always hit, but can't crit. Their damage is based of spellpower, which in turn is based of Magic.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Ulio posted:

Oh that's hilarious I wanna try that out. If you play Origins on Steam can you carry over your file to Inquisition?

Inquisition uses the keep site for importing worldstates. So it doesn’t matter on what platforms you played the previous games.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

precision posted:

There also just plain wasn't that much to do in 3. I replayed it recently and it's astounding how little "game" there is to it. There are like 5 full sized missions in the whole game.
The same can be said all three Mass Effect games though.
I mean, an average complete playthrough of ME1 will be something like 10 hours of combat gameplay & story content. The other 30+ hours will be spend cussing at the Mako's physics as it bounces over fractal generated terrain.

precision posted:

The writing, in broad strokes, was actually fine. The dialogue was all good to great. The story beats were decent but nothing special (Tuchanka aside).
Dragon Age 2's gradual rehabilitation over the years is a fine and good thing. It's still a bad game, but there were some good ideas and concepts floating around in there that can be worth pointing out.
gently caress that nonsense for Mass Effect 3 though. It's writing was a shitshow from start to finish.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

PureRok posted:

Looking back, I don't know why I went with a dual-wield sword Warrior in Origins.
Probably because that was really the only decent Warrior build in Origins?

snoremac posted:

I’m about 5 hours into DA2 and can’t articulate why it’s worse than Origins. The combat seems similar on the surface but just ain’t fun.
Encounter design.
The combat mechanics themselves (and leveling mechanics for that matter) saw a massive improvement from Origins. But the lovely, wave-based encounter design just made fights tedious.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

snoremac posted:

That might be it. I’m also not a fan of no auto-attack. I’m playing as a mage again and liked how auto-attack gave me time in Origins to sit back and do a little tactical thinking. It’s harder when I have to mash A repeatedly. I don’t know if they patched auto-attack in but I’m playing on an old 360 and cbf getting it online.
Auto attack was patched in the console version. If you're fully patched, check the options to enable it.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

ApplesandOranges posted:

Every day I wonder who in the development team went, 'yep, we need less AI customization'.
I reckon that decision was a combination of Bioware's metrics telling them it's not used by the majority of players. The design focus away from party based combat to primarily controlling your main dude with a bunch of AI followers.
And the move to the Frostbite engine: Bioware would have had to rebuild the party AI customization from scratch, so with the above two points it was probably judged to be not worth the investment of resources.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

precision posted:

I mean, that's almost certainly true, but it doesn't explain why they not only kept the Overhead Paused Combat Style, but made it a lot better (especially on consoles, since it didn't even exist in DA:O on console). One presumes that even fewer players used that.
Probably took way less time & resources to implement then something rather complex then customizable AI.

Remember that DA:O had a development time of over 6 years and chunks of its engine's codebase were copied from NWN's Aurora engine.
Meanwhile DA:I had a development time of 2-3 years. The move to Frostbite meant pretty much everything save for the renderer had to be built from scratch (including lots of devtools). And during its development the KotOR MMO wasn't doing all that hot. So even if they were technically different devteams, budget & resources were probably a concern. If only to avoid unnecessary delays and being send a "Get poo poo Done" manager by EA.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012
Edit: Nevermind. Ainsley had a good point.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

snoremac posted:

My god I was cringing when Mother Giselle started singing that song and everyone joined in.
My DA:I awkward confession is that I genuinely like the Dawn Will Come scene. It's very blatant about trying to tug at your heart strings, but there's a build up to it and it's executed kind of well.
It is very cheesy, but it just works for me.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012
Everyone who hates that scene is an emotionless husk with no soul. I mean, choirboy Cullen is the character's one good moment in all three games.

There is a mod that allows you to skip it though.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012
DA2's combat mechanics were solid and a huge improvement over DA:O. Animations and pathing were better, the classes were better balanced, cross-class combos added some tactical depth, systems such as aggro actually worked and weren't really buggy, etc.
DA2's encounter design was what made the combat not all that fun to play.

Zore posted:

2 also did wave combat because Origins mostly boiled down to 'unload your best AOE' to nuke literally every fight in the game. I don't think it ended up working that well in practice, but it was an interesting idea and I'd like to see more encounter design expanding on it in the future tbh.
Bioware did refine it more The encounter design in DA2's DLC was pretty good and most of those encounters had waves.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012
It's always kind of funny to me that you can trace the start of the more louder "Thedas ripped of Westeros" voices to right around when the GoT show started.
Really Bioware was "inspired" by the grimdark fantasy that was really big mid 90s, early 2000s. GRRM is just one of the few names from that era who managed to get & stay big.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012
I can't imagine a next Mass Effect game.

Torrannor posted:

I can't remember reading a single negative reaction to the Keep, either on SA or the few times I looked at the Bioware forums. It's a really cool tool, which also allows them to make decisions matter that weren't tracked in the original saves. It is a weak form of piracy protection as well. And it worked well as an introduction to the important previous events for new players. I can't imagine Bioware not using the Keep for DA4.
It also allowed Bioware to fix issues with the save import-export system. With DA:O they really hadn't figured the concept of a persistent, player-specific worldstate across various games in a series out yet. It was buggy, allowed "illegal" worldstates and wasn't even tracking a lot of things.
Allowing people to import a save that had gone from DA:O -> DA:O's DLCs -> DA2 would have been very messy.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

eating only apples posted:

You can talk to him about her and he's still all blushy and weird iirc
That was a nod to the erotic fanfic writers.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Doctor Reynolds posted:

The most annoying thing about Cassandra is that she's straight. It's, like, baffling. Nothing about that lady is straight. Nothing!

Cythereal posted:

Avoiding stereotypes is fine, but some queer girls like that sort of woman.
I remember the days before Inquisition was released and we all had some good times making fun of the weird neckbeards were all up in arms complaining about how Cassandra was too masculine to be a male-romance option.
Then I read this and I just don't know who's right anymore. :psyduck:

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Randaconda posted:

holy loving poo poo.
Imagine being so upset by not every vidya game person being lily white.

Someone drew this "prettier" version of Vivienne before the game even came out.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

orcane posted:

cosmetics ARE gameplay.
I like dressing up in games to a possibly unhealthy degree and often consider it to be its own game with the game. But that's just nonsense.
If I purchase a blue gun, and a orange outfit and use those to shoot up dudes instead of my original gray gun and purple outfit, no new gameplay was added. I just did the exact same thing, just with a different appearance.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

orcane posted:

Obviously relations matter, in a game where you never even see your orange dude with a blue gun and the dudes you're shooting are color coded or you barely see them form 100m away before they or you die, cosmetics don't matter much. There are plenty of games where this is not the case though.
I don't follow what you're saying here. In a game with really lovely art direction, I suppose cosmetics can affect gameplay. Especially in a competitive mp shooter where you have to quickly recognize things. But in that case the really lovely art direction is your main problem, not DLC/micro-transition policies.

orcane posted:

Also in your example the shop having the exact same gun as you just 20% stronger did not add new gameplay either. You can buy it and do the exact same thing. Yay strawman arguments :woop:
That's not a strawman. That's pretty much exactly my opinion really. Different damage values on guns affect difficulty, not the basic gameplay. A new gun would have to add, or be part of a new mechanic before I'd see it as adding new gameplay.


But I'm curious: How is gameplay affected by cosmetics?

Edit: :argh: Spelling

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Apr 19, 2018

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Taear posted:

We don't know if that's definitely true though.
I mean if they took loads of people off it then that would be why it's taking loving forever, rather than a total reboot.
We did get some rumors last year that the DA4 project was "rebooted" and that more live elements would be implemented. But no one seems to know what "live element" even means, so it could be signs of dire things, or it could be some meaningless drivel of the sort that keeps investors happy. :shrug:

Oh dear me posted:

Not disagreeing, but surely, surely they must have had some inkling beforehand that it would flop?
They must have known the game would have problems. Just like anyone paying attention to news about Andromeda's development knew the game would have problems. For example people leaving important positions during development, like rats fleeing a sinking ship, generally isn't good news.
Just how badly Andromeda would flop was probably unexpected though. EA/Bioware also knew DA2 would have problems, which is why for example there was little to no gameplay footage shown before release. But DA2 didn't do as badly because gamers still had a lot of goodwill towards Bioware. Afterall DA:O & ME2 weren't terrible.
But even though Inquisition was well received, I think Bioware/EA really miscalculated just how bitter people still were over ME3.


As an aside, it always felt strange to me that the Mass Effect franchise has become Bioware's weather vane as sorts. As far as I know the Dragon Age games have always outsold the ME games. Yet, the ME franchise always seems to be treated by the gaming press as Bioware's main product.
Andromeda flopped? Oh no, Bioware is doomed! Bioware's previous game, Inquisition, was their biggest success ever? Who cares.
Andromeda has animation issues? Surely, the means no one can develop RPGs on the Frostbite engine. And that any future Bioware game using it is doomed. Let's just ignore that Inquisition also used the Frostbite engine and didn't have the same problems. And that the previous ME games using the Unreal engines also had animation problems. which indicates the problem was with the ME dev team.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

kurona_bright posted:

Da:I might've gotten facial animation to work but it's still dumb to use an engine clearly not built for rpgs for rpgs
Yes you can make a square peg fit in a round hole, but it'll take a lot of money and time you could've used on actually making the game

That's not really how game engines, or game development in general works. Yes, Frostbite hadn't been used for RPGs before, so Bioware found themselves having to build lots of systems and devtools from scratch. But that's a part of game development. And a pretty fundamental part at that.
For Inquisition, the DA team looked at the game they wanted to make, and then at the technology they had. Their Eclipse (DA:O & DA2) codebase didn't support things like the larger areas they wanted and its graphics were getting outdated. They certainly could have gone the route of upgrading the Eclipse codebase to the point where they could have make the game they wanted to make with it. And if they had done that, they probably could have reused a lot of their old devtools. But it's not like that would not have taken a ton of money & time. The DA:I devs had a hard time building tools and systems for the Frostbite engine. But I'm pretty damned certain that trying to make Inquisition on top of Eclipse also would also have given them a hard time.
Looking at the various postmortems, Frostbite wasn't ME:A's core problem. It certainly caused them certain issues, but with a different engine they would have had different issues. It seems more that ME:A's development was badly mismanaged and for the better part of the 5 year dev cycle lacked a coherent vision of the game they wanted to make. And by the time they had that vision, problems like the animation had become too big deal with in the time before the money ran out.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Apr 22, 2018

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

VostokProgram posted:

The planets in ME1 weren't procedurally generated though. They were just bland.
I'm 99% sure the ME1 planets were churned out by a fractal landscape generator.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Apr 22, 2018

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Wolfsheim posted:

Ahhh, a grand society, the guy who wants to change this is probably the villain.
Maybe I forgot something, but I don’t think its ever actually stated ingame in DA:O (besides the epilogue slides) that Bhelen want to change dwarven society.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Randaconda posted:

What? It's obvious how much things suck, and supporting the business as usual candidate isn't likely to change things.
Yes, but the reformer-vs-do-nothing choice is mostly a meta thing and doesn't really come up ingame. Harrowmont never talks about how great Dwarven society is and that nothing should change. And Bhelen never even hints at wanting to change things.
We all pick Bhelen because we know what the epilogue slides say. Ingame it's presented as the honorable dude vs the scheming poo poo. Granted I've never played a dwarf, so maybe it's more obvious then.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

ApplesandOranges posted:

He was fine, and then Awakening happened.
He was a lame one-note joke which was only funny if you think belching is inherently funny.
And then Awakening happened and he was the exact same.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:

Except she wasn't ever racist, though. :colbert:
To be fair
On the one hand Ashley made a very good and strong point about whether it's a good idea to gamble on the Alliance's allies not being fair-weather friends. And by the way the Normandy is an Alliance military vessel: Did anyone vet that Krogan merc? Or check that Turian's last psych eval? I mean, he was kind of trigger happy for a cop and why is that Quarian hobo pulling our top secret stealth drive apart while making notes?
On the other hand Ashley also compared alien species to animals once or twice.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Smol posted:

Just started DA2 and noticed that according to the codex, Hawke also fought at Ostagar. For whatever reason I didn't know that!

Edit: Well, I guess I just never read the codex...

A non-mage Hawke and Carver both were at Ostagar. One Carver's first lines in the intro segment is him saying the two of them have been running from the Darkspawn since Ostagar.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

My Cuck Dad posted:

is there any way to modify my character's appearance after the beginning of the game?
Go check out the Black Emporium.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Ginette Reno posted:

I thought I remember reading that the general arc of the Dragon Age series is usually planned a few games ahead. I assume the Elven Gods are fake thing has been known since the start of the series, and also they presumably know what the Black City is and all that poo poo.
The old Bioware forums are gone, so I can't find the quote. But a writer did say that during DA:O's development they made a vague outline for the first three games and made an internal reference document for all the background lore, etc.
It would be interesting to see how much of that initial outline is still intact, but they did have plan for the overarching storyline.

Meanwhile, the ME-team writers were using the fanmade ME-wiki as a reference for lore and events from previous games.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Taear posted:

And it wasn't incomprehensible? Unless the changes later made it so.
In ME1 Sovereign was literally saying they're incomprehensible with his dumb "My kind transcends your very understanding." speech.
Mind you, that was mostly because the writers clearly had no idea where the mass effect story would go, so just they put some vague nonsense in there as a placeholder.

Helith posted:

Copies of ME1 on Origin automatically include the 2 dlc for it now.
Up until now I honestly thought Pinnacle Station was never ported over to the PC.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012
What the hell is "empty world building" even supposed to be?

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

exquisite tea posted:

People love to throw around the term "ludonarrative dissonance" in video games these days but for me the greatest and most hilarious example of this is Dragon Age's treatment of mages. Like, the writing and characters would really like you to believe that mages are unfairly treated by all societies in Thedas, that the Circles are a bad idea and they should be allowed to roam free, yet virtually every single interaction and side quest involving mages has them exploding into a shower of blood or summoning some horrible demons into the world. Literally every single one. It's so consistent and so funny that I refuse to believe it's by accident.
The idea is that the circles cause mages to bug-gently caress insane. Where the games' narrative screw up is actually communicating that effectively.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

exquisite tea posted:

Yeah but if that were true then you'd expect to see many examples of mages succeeding outside the circles.
There are. For example in Inquisition you see Avvar mages who are doing just fine without a circle system to lock them away for life. The problem is that besides the player's party, the examples of mages doing just fine outside of a circle mostly just exist in background lore until Inquisition.

I always thought Bioware kind of hamstrung themselves by wanting both sides to have a valid point in the mage-templar conflict. So where it really ought have been "religious zealots abusing a minority until said minority snaps", we instead got "religious moron vs magical crazy pants".

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Dawgstar posted:

and then what's his name becoming a giant abomination and taking over the Fereldan Tower
Uldred is a good example: During the war council at Ostagar, Uldred is seen suggesting that maybe the mages could help during the battle. Sling some fire at the Darkspawn, etc. And he's immediately shutdown by a Chantry mother who just barely managed to restrain herself from ordering him burned at the stake for the crime of talking in public while being a mage.
If someone has to deal with poo poo like that for a lifetime, is really that much of a surprise that one day they stop guarding themselves and let the little voice that goes "you don't have to take this" in?

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Smol posted:

Do we know anything about these statues you see everywhere in Ferelden? Just generic filler or do they have some deeper meaning?
I wouldn't be surprised if they had an intern during Inquisition's development churning out statues like that to keep them busy. I recall there being a bunch of statues all over the place.
But yeah, they're basically filler. Not everything needs to have a deeper meaning or a 50 minute lore video explaining it. Sometimes its just a thing that adds some atmosphere.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

NikkolasKing posted:

I am skeptical of the "most decorated" game claim since ME2 literally has a Wikipedia page dedicated to how many awards it won but still, it topped ME3's 6 million sales apparently. That isn't bad.
I think Dragon Age has always been in this weird place where it sold better then Mass Effect, but somehow was less popular.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012
My main issue with DAI's open world was that there was little to no connection between the separate areas and the main plot. Which is what hurt the replayability for me. The majority of the time I felt the game gave me no reason to go to an area. It's all just running around until you have filled out your map.
Would it really have killed the writers to make a bunch of missions relating to Corypheus and Calpernia/Samson? It probably would have helped the main plot as well as the antagonists are practically non-entities in the story.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

precision posted:

He directly links homosexuality to being not family friendly.
Bioware’s game director doesn’t get to decide what’s PG and R rated though.

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

ShakeZula posted:

I've only ever played Origins and Inquisition, because I came to the series late and everyone says the gameplay of DA2 is terrible. However, the story seems kind of cool and interesting. Is it worth playing/are the gameplay issues overblown? What kind of time investment would it take?
It depends on what your tolerance level for tedium is. As Shugojin already said, the encounter design in DA2 is absolutely poo poo with no redeeming feature whatsoever. So while the combat mechanics in DA2 saw a huge improvement from Origin, it still plays pretty much like poo poo.
DA2 has a demo. You could try it out and see if you can picture yourself playing it for 30-40 hours.

Also, fair warning: the concept of DA2's story is cool and interesting. The execution not so much.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Raygereio
Nov 12, 2012

Taear posted:

All three Witcher games are good with good writing and exciting worlds and stories.
Alternative opinion: All Witcher games are rather mediocre with their only real selling point being tits.
It's rather funny to me that a few pages back in this thread people were accusing Bioware of fanservice, when CD Project is the one who had nude renders of Triss in playboy. Have to hand it to them though, they know what their target audience wants.

Raygereio fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Nov 26, 2018

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply