Crawl .21: Stick a Fork In It

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FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Floodkiller posted:

All this work

Gods' work, dude. Great stuff. GoonCrawl is hands down the best fork and I want to thank you for it.

# ? Sep 13, 2018 18:58

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:12

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

can we fire the latest build over to cbro again

# ? Sep 13, 2018 20:26

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

Floodkiller posted:

siren DEPTH WORDS siren

On the other hand, vaults work differently: they have slots to generate specific monsters (in order to allow players to theme vaults), as well as three additional defaults that use the mon-pick-data file:
code:
Monsters
--------
 0 - normal monster
 9 - +5 depth monster
 8 - (+2) * 2 depth monster (aargh!).
9 is essentially already taking that 2.2%*14%*whatever chance and skipping straight to "generate a big rear end fucker". 8 is even worse at any level past D:3 and quickly jumps to the ends of the charts. Taking death knights on D:6 again, a death knight could spawn on any 9 in a vault at the same chances as the level gen code after skipping past the chance to OOD and fuzz rolls, which is already better odds than it had before. On an 8 spawn (so (6+2)*2 = 16), it is now in the perfect spawn range to have 100% chance to be included for a pick and only has to beat the weight roll against other depth 16 monsters.

In summary, if you see a big rear end fucker on a given level that seems way out of place, it's almost assuredly a vault and not the level gen spawns. Thus, give me vault names when you die and I can relocate or purge them (I plan on doing something to the_grid this weekend).

Two things:
1) Duvessa/Minmay is a huge rear end in a top hat for designing a whole bunch of vaults that spawn waaaaay OOD poo poo, then going onto the tavern talking about how smart players ought to play and that the game is easy if you just never go near vaults.

2) That out-of-depth code for vaults is bogus as gently caress. First of all because vaults should be assigned themed enemies and not just random assholes, second of all because that one option DOUBLES your depth, instead of +7 or +10 like a normal coder would think to do.

# ? Sep 13, 2018 20:44

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Speleothing posted:

Duvessa/Minmay is a huge rear end in a top hat

# ? Sep 13, 2018 20:46

Yngwie Mangosteen: Aug 23, 2007

Speleothing posted:

Two things:
1) Duvessa/Minmay is a huge rear end in a top hat for designing a whole bunch of vaults that spawn waaaaay OOD poo poo, then going onto the tavern talking about how smart players ought to play and that the game is easy if you just never go near vaults.

2) That out-of-depth code for vaults is bogus as gently caress. First of all because vaults should be assigned themed enemies and not just random assholes, second of all because that one option DOUBLES your depth, instead of +7 or +10 like a normal coder would think to do.

Yes, Duvessa/Minmay is one of the major issues with the non-gooncrawl development of the game. That's been known for a long time.

# ? Sep 13, 2018 21:11

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

PMush Perfect posted:

GoonCrawl is Good, and Floodkiller is Good too.

Yo, FK, set up a ko-fi or something.

I appreciate the offer, but no thanks. I'm lazy enough that I would prefer not worrying about reporting extra sources of income at tax time over the extra spending cash. If you really want to, you can send some to my friend instead who does actually need the cash. Maybe with some awful Crawl in-joke or pun so I can laugh when he sighs or doesn't get it.

Speleothing posted:

Two things:
1) Duvessa/Minmay is a huge rear end in a top hat for designing a whole bunch of vaults that spawn waaaaay OOD poo poo, then going onto the tavern talking about how smart players ought to play and that the game is easy if you just never go near vaults.

2) That out-of-depth code for vaults is bogus as gently caress. First of all because vaults should be assigned themed enemies and not just random assholes, second of all because that one option DOUBLES your depth, instead of +7 or +10 like a normal coder would think to do.

I agree on point 1.

For point 2's first half, a lot of vaults use those so that there can be decoration or branch-neutral vaults that need monsters, but don't need specific ones. For example, "small room with a stronger than normal enemy guarding loot" can be thrown into a lot of branches with a 9 and use the already built monster-pick charts instead of going through and manually mapping a bunch of monsters specific to each depth of each branch. I agree on the second half though; another solution to fixing/removing vaults that abuse the 9s and 8s could be to re-scale them to +3/+6 or something.

# ? Sep 13, 2018 21:35

icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

Will there be a .22 thread or have all the regulars burned out on this game?

# ? Sep 14, 2018 04:31

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Some notes on the local log folk who want to find things out.

You can find logfile in /installdir/saves/

Here's a naive regex to turn x=y: value pairs into tab delimited values, only tested against 5 lines of log or so. You can copy + paste tab delimited into a spreadsheet for easier readability:

code:

([a-zA-Z0-9., -]+)\=([a-zA-Z0-9., -]+)\:
\1\t\2\t

This breaks for sure on every br=xxxx::y: entry because I can't be arsed to deal with the double colon case. Regex capable text editors include Textpad and Notepad++ and several others (Textpad is the best though).

What might be better is doing a line break at the end instead of a tab so the file goes vertically instead of horizontally:

code:

\1\t\2\n

I think if say, an OOD vault generated the monster that killed you, the value you'll want in logfile is killermap=blah, which is why I'm writing this to hopefully help people list vaults for FloodKiller to re-examine this weekend as they said.

This is valid for local logfiles only; I have no idea what webtiles/servers do, probably an easily queryable bot in IRC or something.

# ? Sep 14, 2018 05:33

Mystery Prize: Nov 7, 2010

This is why you look at the chat log when you run into things!

# ? Sep 14, 2018 05:48

Speleothing: May 6, 2008; Spare batteries are pretty key.

icantfindaname posted:

Will there be a .22 thread or have all the regulars burned out on this game?

I'm not burned out all. I just dgaf about trunk because it's run by assholes.

# ? Sep 14, 2018 06:39

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

Yeah, we renamed the thread last time, we can just rename it again.

Crawl .22: Floodkiller Gave Me Crabs

# ? Sep 14, 2018 18:40

World Famous W: May 25, 2007; BAAAAAAAAAAAA

Crawl .(it doesn't matter, play GoonCrawl instead)

# ? Sep 14, 2018 18:52

Hyedum: Jun 12, 2010

World Famous W posted:

Crawl .(it doesn't matter, play GoonCrawl instead)

Crawl .Goon

# ? Sep 14, 2018 20:00

Sage Grimm: Feb 18, 2013; Let's go explorin' little dude!

Crawl .22: GoonCrawl is Good don't @ me

# ? Sep 14, 2018 21:50

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Status update: started working on implementing permabuffs, but I got sick so I couldn't concentrate on what I was doing. Maybe next weekend I can make more progress.

# ? Sep 16, 2018 22:54

Captainsalami: Apr 16, 2010; I told you you'd pay!

I have a feature request. Would it be at all possible to implement a 'newbie' mode for online play where you dont get any score and cant permadie or something negotiable for people to see the less common sections of the game? The best part of this to me is having spectators.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 03:25

Hyedum: Jun 12, 2010

Captainsalami posted:

I have a feature request. Would it be at all possible to implement a 'newbie' mode for online play where you dont get any score and cant permadie or something negotiable for people to see the less common sections of the game? The best part of this to me is having spectators.

Isn't that basically what wizmode is?

It's been a while since I've used it, but I seem to remember being able to reject deaths when you're in it.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 04:04

Captainsalami: Apr 16, 2010; I told you you'd pay!

Hyedum posted:

Isn't that basically what wizmode is?

It's been a while since I've used it, but I seem to remember being able to reject deaths when you're in it.

Cant use wizmode online cause of stuff and reasons that I dont know about.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 04:53

Attestant: Oct 23, 2012; Don't judge me.

I haven't really looked at Crawl for like two years now. What is the current state of the game like? Seeing that there's an actual goon fork now, did people get super fed up by something the main devs did?

# ? Sep 17, 2018 09:41

Cynic Jester: Apr 11, 2009; Let's put a simile on that face
A dazzling simile
Twinkling like the night sky

Attestant posted:

I haven't really looked at Crawl for like two years now. What is the current state of the game like? Seeing that there's an actual goon fork now, did people get super fed up by something the main devs did?

Most of the recent Crawl updates have at least felt like they removed more things than they added, and what was being removed was more often than not fun poo poo. The devs seem super focused on promoting a play style that bores me to tears.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 10:56

ExiledTinkerer: Nov 4, 2009

Any further reckonings on adding the Oni from awhile back? They might still be too raw a gimmick, but maybe not.

# ? Sep 17, 2018 13:05

Tollymain: Jul 9, 2010; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Attestant posted:

I haven't really looked at Crawl for like two years now. What is the current state of the game like? Seeing that there's an actual goon fork now, did people get super fed up by something the main devs did?

devs removed purple chunks and it was kinda the last straw

# ? Sep 18, 2018 09:00

Attestant: Oct 23, 2012; Don't judge me.

But you're supposed to eat the purple

# ? Sep 18, 2018 11:07

Hyedum: Jun 12, 2010

Attestant posted:

But you're supposed to eat the purple

Yeah, but that's fun.

Fun is sub-optimal.

# ? Sep 18, 2018 11:12

Metoron: Jun 5, 2006; Hurm.

For those of you in the EU that want to play Gooncrawl online without the overseas lag, the X-Crawl server in Germany has added Gooncrawl to their list of branches that they host.

https://x-crawl.de/

# ? Sep 19, 2018 01:01

the Orb of Zot: Jun 25, 2013; Apport: the Orb of Zot
The orb shrieks as your magic touches it!
Yoink! You pull the item towards yourself.
You see here the Orb of Zot.

icantfindaname posted:

Will there be a .22 thread or have all the regulars burned out on this game?

The last couple of versions have been incredibly sparse in terms of major additions and changes
.22 had no new spells, species, or gods and only two major gameplay changes (ghost vaults and the spell library) and outside of that was minor adjustments and the admittingly big UI overhaul that hopefully will result in more stuff next version since the backend is easier now
There are logs of the ##crawl-dev discussions going back ages; it used to be the average file size for a given day�s log was about 100 kB or higher; now it rarely breaks 10kB and sometimes doesn�t even break 1kB

I can tolerate dumb changes or removals since I�m not super difficult to please, but even I�m not liking the current feeling being given off of �nothing is being done anyways why pay attention�

At least gammafunk said he�s doing work on a desert branch, so there�s some hope there for a big headliner to make me splat a lot again

Any devs reading this, do keep up the good work

# ? Sep 19, 2018 01:32

Jazerus: May 24, 2011

the current dev team's approach has a decided "time to finalize the game" feeling to it, yeah

mostly they seem way more concerned with cutting stuff away to lock in their idea of proper balance than, well, actually developing things. if a feature needs work, it tends to just go away instead

# ? Sep 19, 2018 02:50

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Some thoughts on the re-introductions (I never played these in their original incarnations):

Lava Orc
Kinda ... boring? Basically like a Hill Orc except slightly worse combat apts in exchange for perpetual iron skin, scaling rF+, the rarely used and not actually required by anything ability to walk through lava, and the complete inability to read scrolls after a certain point in the game. The burny aura helps a bit early on (and synergizes well with axe) but it becomes a definite liability, especially in a game that doesn't have wands of teleport any more so evocable blink better be on your wish list. I take back boring, it's definitely a strong race/kit, but the differences it introduces don't seem to be that big of a deal in terms of modifying gameplay (as opposed to say, Deep Dwarf, or even Barachi). This might be improved if there was more to the temperature management mechanic, but from essentially Depths onward you are basically always burning hot or always cold with little in between, and at those levels the burning doesn't bring much benefit other than not being able to use scrolls (I haven't checked but I assume the fire aura damage doesn't scale).

Djinni
This one is more interesting to me. I don't look these combos up stats wise before I play them so all I knew about Djinni is they were fly-ey fire-y guys. Then I saw the resist loadout and was all kinda "yeah!" But then I saw the HP malus and was all like "nooo". There's a bit of gear luck involved because you must find an rC+ as soon as possible or get lunched on by Ice Fiends, White Imps, and other early cold monsters (Natasha/Fannar can especially terrifying). I've killed these guys in droves, but unlike the Lava Orcs something keeps bringing me back. I don't know what it is, but the lack of a food clock and combined hp/mp essence makes it feel like you have to make more decisions, but in a good way. The intrinsic flight is nice too, and a good tradeoff for never having boots of speed, but having essentially halfling health makes sure you'll always have to be careful even at higher levels.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 05:12

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

FR: An actually mostly-blind race. Has an innate inaccuracy malus and permanent blurry vision 3, but has sense monster, map, and item, good stealth, and maybe Formian-style burrowing.

Edit: A moleman. I just described a moleman.

FR: Molemen.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 05:45

RPATDO_LAMD: Mar 22, 2013; 🐘🪠🍆

Give them reduced vision range too.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 07:02

Teal: Feb 25, 2013; by Nyc_Tattoo

Maybe give them a shadow/ghosty theming and rather than digging, give them innate passwall and some hefty stealth bonuses and buffs. Dithmenos priest start maybe.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 08:14

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

But I wanna play a moleman, not a ghost that can't read for... some reason.

Though ghost would also be fun.

FR: Hat-slot item 'glasses' that removes one level of blurry vision.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 08:15

Teal: Feb 25, 2013; by Nyc_Tattoo

I wasn't thinking ghosts outright, more like lovecraftian take on tardigrade.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 08:18

Aumanor: Nov 9, 2012

Out of curiosity, which version of ignite poison is gooncrawl using? I'm feeling like going back to crawlin' again at least for a bit and trying to decide between it and 0.15/0.16/0.17/whatever the last fun version of crawl was

# ? Sep 19, 2018 09:53

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

Aumanor posted:

Out of curiosity, which version of ignite poison is gooncrawl using? I'm feeling like going back to crawlin' again at least for a bit and trying to decide between it and 0.15/0.16/0.17/whatever the last fun version of crawl was

It's the new version, but it's on the Todo list for development for this version of Gooncrawl to also make it work on poison based monsters again so it will eventually be a combination of both versions.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 13:02

Serephina: Nov 8, 2005; 恐竜戦隊
ジュウレンジャー

I'm fully supportive of Lava Orcs and Djinni being available to goof around with, with the huge disclaimer that they are nowhere near balanced and where abandoned not out of any curmudgeon-ness of the devs, but rather a total inability to reconcile their core schticks with "being anywhere near not-broken".

I recall seeing a log of a LOCK^Lu who trolled around the starting abyss, found a lava pool, and heat-blasted a draconian skeleton for about 5 levelups instantly. Whoops.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 14:17

FulsomFrank: Sep 11, 2005; Hard on for love

Serephina posted:

I'm fully supportive of Lava Orcs and Djinni being available to goof around with, with the huge disclaimer that they are nowhere near balanced and where abandoned not out of any curmudgeon-ness of the devs, but rather a total inability to reconcile their core schticks with "being anywhere near not-broken".

I recall seeing a log of a LOCK^Lu who trolled around the starting abyss, found a lava pool, and heat-blasted a draconian skeleton for about 5 levelups instantly. Whoops.

What makes you think they're broken? For the record I haven't tried Fire Orcs yet and I've been banging my head against the wall trying to have a good run with Djinnis like Scaramouche said.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 14:31

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

There's an old Nethack joke: "The DevTeam has arranged an automatic and savage punishment for pudding farming. It's called pudding farming."

Find-replace 'pudding' with 'abyss'.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 16:34

Floodkiller: May 31, 2011

FulsomFrank posted:

What makes you think they're broken? For the record I haven't tried Fire Orcs yet and I've been banging my head against the wall trying to have a good run with Djinnis like Scaramouche said.

Lava Orcs use the tension system to generate/reduce temperature. The only other thing this system is used for is Xom, who uses it to increase the likelihood of taking actions each turn. The system is incredibly lenient on what a 'threat' is, since you would prefer Xom to at least actively "make things fun" even if you aren't really in danger compared to not acting when something is threatening but not enough to cross the threshold. Maybe someone can think of a better way to do temperature now that they are back in to mess around with?

Djinni got cut because there were too many cross-contaminating gimmicks. It was a mess to balance since they also balanced each other and redesigning around a single part just left them overpowered. Again, feel free to brainstorm stuff now that they are back in (such as what I already did by just cutting out infinite on demand healing via device channeling instead of making some weird contam countermeasure).

Also, would anyone be interested in a new thread, but redesigned around a forever OP with descriptions of Stone Soup plus various forks(and a second post for more Gooncrawl detail) instead of the current one which centered and was remade for each SS version? I can work on the OP after getting off of work if that sounds good.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 17:01

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# ? Apr 28, 2024 22:12

girl dick energy: Sep 30, 2009; You think you have the wherewithal to figure out my puzzle vagina?

I like that idea.

# ? Sep 19, 2018 18:02

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