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Been playing this about a week, have something like 10 wins between the two classes (more consistently with Ironchad than Shush), and been trying my best to thin decks while still getting the cards I actually need. I noticed in either this newest update or the one before it, Remove 2 Cards gets consistently paired with "Lose 50% Current HP" as opposed to "Lose 7 Max HP". Is it worth it to go for in that case? I've been getting wrecked early on when I get a whale like that.
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Jan 27, 2018 17:58
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Beasteh posted:Upgraded evolve and a power through are all you need to generate an absurd amount of card draw for fast cycling to get your powers online Disclaimer: If you get Upgraded Evolve and a Mark of Pain, don't be afraid to add a LITTLE thickness to your deck. My last run I had a 14 card deck with Evolve in it and the good news was I would draw my entire deck, every turn! The bad news is it would all happen at once and you have a maximum hand size so a chunk of my deck would just fall into the discard every turn.  It's the only time I've capped my hand with Ironchad.
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Jan 28, 2018 02:45
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please knock Mom! posted:The silent relic is made for trading in tho I still don't like trading in the Silent relic because landing on the Calling Bell really, really hurts Silent, they don't have much of a good way of dealing with Curses like Ironchad does. And then you get Normality/Pain/Regret and your run is ruined before it even starts and you either have to go whale-less or try to struggle through with your pre-gimped deck. Why yes, this is a heap of salt from exactly that happening five minutes ago.
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Jan 28, 2018 09:28
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Sloober posted:Apotheosis makes every deck better Apotheosis means you don't need to waste campfire time honing up your attacking/defending skills if you don't want to, just a few powers you're absolutely not going to be willing to wait until after Apotheosis to play. (Footwork, Demon Form, Barricade, and Apotheosis itself are the big ones I'm thinking of.) Which means if you've got a Girya/Shovel/Peace Pipe you can just go to town. Alternately, you can be more liberal with your healing, or reprioritize campfires as less necessary. foutre posted:I just had two shiv-spam Silent runs end on Time Keeper as the final boss. Got it to sub 100 each time, but the '12 spells and you're done' was just too much. Someday I'll get a Silent win, god willing... I've gotten Time Keeper 7 out of the last 8 runs I've done. I'm seriously starting to hate that loving snail. At least poison-spam Silent has SOME options against Time Keeper, since Fumes will still do its work even if the rear end in a top hat clears it halfway through the fight. Alternately, you could build up poison until the next turn or two will drop it to half health, and then cram a Catalyst or three in its face. EDIT:  Sometimes the RNG just flips you the bird. (This was on a shiv build, so it was basically either a dead relic or actively detrimental. I've never seen a build where I go "OH BOY, ORRERY".) KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Jan 29, 2018 |
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Jan 29, 2018 10:24
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Beasteh posted:Orrery is good actually because it reads 'add 2-3 good cards your deck is missing, possibly more' The problem with Orrery is that you have to take all five, and very rarely will all five be good, even for Silent. Which means more removal you have to do to slim your deck down. I've just never at all had it help a run. Maybe if it and the Ice Cream swapped places, I'd be more generous, but then you could get into awkward situations where an event/shovel just shoves a relic in your hands without you being able to turn it down and surprise now your ten-card rapidcycle deck now gets a full extra hand bloating it. Walh Hara posted:I'm a lot more consistent with Th Silent compared to the Ironclad. The Silent has a lot more cards that are "always grab", and a lot less priority on keeping deck size thin. Between Backflip and Acrobatics, you can generate a lot of deck cycling, and past that, defense is always welcome for a Silent deck. The problem is that there's a lot more counters for card spam than single power plays. There's a few things that can hard counter almost any Silent deck (Time Eater comes to mind immediately, but the Big Red Guy on floor 1 also bears a mention), but nothing that really counters "build up hundreds of defense with Barricade" or "get a bajillion Strength with Demon Form/Limit Break", which is followed by Body Slam or really just about any basic attack, respectively. Admittedly, status abuse hurts smaller decks a lot more, but Ironclad has a build to work around that, too. EDIT: Okay, so, uh. Tip to anybody reading this: The beta and stable build store their saves in separate directories. If you've been playing a while and switch from one to the other, you might want to copy them over. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 12:55 on Jan 29, 2018 |
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Jan 29, 2018 12:43
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Beasteh posted:You can skip the Orrery choices, just leave them on the table and back out of a selection I don't remember it working like that before, I remember it locking me into getting all five cards.  Either they changed something or I missed the "skip" button.
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Jan 29, 2018 13:22
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Today's trip report: Dead Branch + Corruption is amazing. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 10:17 on Jan 30, 2018 |
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Jan 30, 2018 10:14
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GrandpaPants posted:It's weird that Necronomicon Whirlwind doesn't work, but Doubletap Whirlwind does. It may just assume X = 0 since it's not an actual number to trigger Necronomicon? Sounds to me like the subtle difference between “two copies of a card” and “the same card effect twice”. Not sure why it’s coded that way if it is, but it sounds like the most plausible explanation.
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Jan 30, 2018 21:42
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Stallion Cabana posted:speaking of Necronomicon Double tap, I have a question I havne't been able to resolve, even having a double tap + Necronomicon deck yesterday. In my experience, the second one. Double Tap/Necronomicon stacks are additive, not multiplicative. foutre posted:Does anyone have a good, basic set of guidelines for picking cards as silent? Generally your key cards will be common or uncommon, and like stated, you don't need to prioritize removal nearly as much, so don't be afraid of monster-heavy pathways, even if you don't take every card you find. As nice as Burst is, the Silent is all about card synergy as opposed to singular "win condition" cards like Ironclad has. A Burst on its own isn't gonna do much, but stacking it with other high-tier skills like Nightmare or Blur can change the tide of a battle. Past that, it's mostly keeping track of what your deck already has and what direction it's going. Flechettes goes better in high-skill turtle decks, Finisher goes better in high-attack Shiv decks, that sort of thing. Walh Hara posted:The only one (from memory) that I don't like is wraith form (I'm probably forgetting some) Tools of the Trade needs to have a discard deck already in place to be a good pick in my eyes. Envenom is bad in a turtle deck, which is what most Poison decks are. It's good as a rider to a shiv deck, but you're not gonna really go "wow this made a huge difference" with it except if you have a Snecko Skull or when you're using it to shave artifact off of things. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Jan 31, 2018 |
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Jan 31, 2018 15:17
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Sloober posted:Nice they're looking at potions, the current ones are only really useful in map 1, although the energy and draw potions will always be good. Explosive pot has proven clutch a couple of times for me on map one (looking at you triple artifact fight), and fire is actually good when you take on the nob I still pop a regen in The Beyond if I'm running a turtle deck that got a bad draw in the last fight. It's the only reliable way for Silent to recover HP outside of campfires or getting lucky and bitey. Strength and Defense are good to use on bosses to help make things a little smoother. Then again, that all goes out the window on ascension runs, where you NEED to have a deck that can handle itself on every possible turn as soon as possible.
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Jan 31, 2018 16:52
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Jeza posted:Curious about this game. I can tell it's down my street, but I'm leery of buying any early access title. Not because I think they'll be bad per se (although often they kinda are) but more like I'll play it now with 50% content and never really experience the full thing because I can count on one hand the amount of games I've ever gone back to replay just about. I feel like the game is worth the $16 Steam is asking for as it stands. If this was "all the game" you were willing to play, you would get your money's worth. They are at the very least looking to add at least one more class and a proper ending past what we've got before pushing it to "complete", just based on what is already in the game with an "Allan please add content" placeholder, though talk of further characters past that is plausible and they're pretty clearly gonna be regularly tweaking card/relic numbers until they're happy with the balance. (If they're aiming to be "like a proper card game", they will never be happy with the balance.)
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Jan 31, 2018 19:40
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SynthesisAlpha posted:That's why I stopped taking clash. Seems so good, ends up sitting in the hand far too often. Masterful Stab on the Silent has the same problem. Very few turns with the Silent end with an empty hand (and if they do it's because you're running a Discard/Storm of Steel deck) so it just ends up being a dead card five times more often than it's useful.
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Feb 1, 2018 19:13
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Blind Duke posted:Silent’s lack of exhaust feels like a big weakness to me, but I will admit a love for exhaust decks. Silent gets ludicrous amounts of draw and discard, is supposed to be the tradeoff. Ironclad is good at pruning down his own deck, Silent just churns it like butter. Hell, my last Silent run ended up with a deck the size of what you'd normally get in a M:tG game. If nothing else, it made statuses and curses far less awful to fall into.
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Feb 1, 2018 19:17
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NmareBfly posted:Last night I got: Can you kill yourself with the Blue Candle, or does it just stop working? It seems like it wouldn't just keep churning without damaging you. (If it did, that means you have an infinite any time you draw the Necronomicurse, at the price of all your health.)
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Feb 1, 2018 19:19
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ninjewtsu posted:1 artifact sounds not great to be honest. i'd expect more like 2 or 3 artifact out of a potion. but maybe it's a lot better in practice It's "better than Elixir". You'll use it about as much as the Weak potions, which is to say "it can save you some headache but it's not gonna save a run that's already floundering". quote:
Thank god. All three of those are potential run-killers if you don't already have things gelled out. (though the darklings was a less severe one since if you're still not sure what you're doing by act 3 you're gonna get murdered by the bosses anyway.) The triangles is now unquestionably the easiest of the three elites in Act 1 regardless of run type. Compared to "blocking only makes me stronger" and "the longer you take, the weaker you get", the potential of a slim deck getting bloated with Dazeds is honestly refreshingly simple. EDIT: ninjewtsu posted:i thought this poo poo wasn't supposed to happen anymore Okay, maybe they're not fixed, and thus, just as dangerous still as the other two elites. 
KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Feb 2, 2018 |
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Feb 2, 2018 03:03
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Scholtz posted:
Relic Dome is basically the one energy relic better than Sozu, though it does require you to know enemy patterns by heart and gets shafted pretty hard by pure rng enemies (birds, darklings).
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Feb 3, 2018 17:39
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kickascii posted:Wildcard option is Corruption. This can be very powerful but it's tricky to optimize without the Branch Relic. If you already have a Branch and you see a Corruption, you absolutely Windmill-slam it into your deck. Corruption also works to make an Exhaust Deck that dovetails into a Tiny Deck, if you're smart about card removals and don't pick up many attacks. Burn through your skills (ideally racking up damage with Charon's Ashes if you have it) and end up with a deck of five attacks, two or three of which are Dropkicks, enjoy the infinite.
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Feb 4, 2018 17:08
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That's a hell of a lot of relics, even for shovel + fighting every elite you can. Did you actually buy anything except relics at shops?
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Feb 4, 2018 23:20
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kickascii posted:I have no idea if it's good to do "replace your starting relic with a random boss relic," but I always do it on the silent, and a lot of the times I regret it. This time I got +3 curses +3 relics. Since I got the relic that has +1STR for every 3 attacks, and +4 block for every 3 attacks, I set out to make a shiv deck. Fortunately I was able to snipe several elites on floor 1 due to the strength of backstabs and STR buffs, and the golden idol early let me buy a few relics in shops. My deck was losing steam fast at the start of floor2. I replaced the Silent's relic with Cursed Key and my first chest relic was a Du-Vu Doll so I went full in on getting every curse I could. I got killed by a Cultist-Hexer combo because I prioritized killing the Cultist first. Mistake.
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Feb 5, 2018 04:45
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Jeza posted:It's always the boss you don't want. My only complaint with this game right now is that the classes seem so imbalanced. Maybe it's just me, but I can build a winning deck almost every time with Ironclad, and almost never with Silent. Ironclad is decent against all the final bosses, Silent can get almost hard countered by particular ones. I think the problem - outside of Time Eater, who just insists you make every card count and doesn't do well with cardspam strats - is actually less about classes and more about card types. There are many dangerous counters to skills and powers, even as early on as the first stratum. Gremlin Elite buffs strength every time you use a skill and quickly becomes unfeasible. Things like the elite crab-bug thing and the cultists (and even Donu/Deca and the Stone Head/Book of Stabbing elites) disincentivize turtling by becoming increasingly more powerful (or, in the elite's case, making you weaker) as the fight wears on. Chosen hexes are more benign, but can still render your deck unplayable if you're not careful. Recklessly abusing powers versus the Unawakened One will get you murdered. In the meantime, the counter to Attack cards is... Thorns. Which exist on all of two enemies, one of which is a boss and one which doesn't show up until the third stratum. Malleable means you can't hit things too much in a single turn, but that resets every turn. Nemesis is only vulnerable one turn out out of every three, I suppose, so you can't just Attack Attack Attack to beat it. Defending will get punished a lot more than attacking, meaning that it's a lot easier to bumblefuck through the game with a few powerful attacks than it is to do so with strong defenses.
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Feb 7, 2018 02:27
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dyzzy posted:Shiv builds are good and fun but without having accuracy unlocked or building in a damage multiplier you will be cockblocked by the end boss 1/3 of the time Yeah, shiv decks really want card unlocks to really come into their own. Infinite Blades is ironically almost a gimmick in its own decktype, shiv builds live or die on Blade Storm, Cloak And Dagger, and Accuracy. Storm of Steel is nice, too, but situational.
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Feb 7, 2018 06:04
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Toshimo posted:I prefer Choke if I can get it. Choke is a absolutely better if you get the Necronomicon, otherwise Finisher is slightly easier to fit into a Silent deck that needs a few more Outmaneuvers. Speaking of our friend the Necro...   I cannot believe I won with this clownshoes-rear end build. It started off with a whale Feed gift that I chewed through floor 1 with, combined with Embrace/Corrupt/Pain exhaust trifecta. By the endgame I was burning through entire hands with Fiend Fire, filling back up to full, and doing it again with the Necro proc, dropping something like 70-100 damage and gaining something like 40 Block for the low, low price of 2 energy. The only real hiccup was surviving until The Combo came online.
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Feb 7, 2018 09:50
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Toshimo posted:It's in the beta branch. However, if you play on beta, it doesn't apply your progress to live and you don't have leaderboards, so it's a trade-off. The former issue is easily worked around - the game keeps your beta and non-beta saves separate, so technically all you have to do (citation needed) is copy the unlock progress from one directory to the other.
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Feb 7, 2018 18:26
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Insurrectionist posted:I don't give a poo poo about the losing part, if I did I would actually take good cards instead, it was just to illustrate how long I go without getting a single non-poison damage card worth a drat (or not worth a drat for that part) I think it's just the good(?!) ol' RNG desire sensor at work. When I was trying to get the 99 Poison achievement, the closest I could get to a usable poison card was Poisoned Stab, but I got like 20 Infinite Blades and Cloak+Daggers. (No envenom, before you suggest that.) Similarly, any time I try to run a strength build on Ironclad, I get like three Barricades thrown at me.
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Feb 9, 2018 13:26
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A Moose posted:Ok Dead Branch is awesome. Got it on the first act 2 games in a row, and picked up a corruption shortly afterwards. Its a totally different game where you just generate a million cards in the hope that some of them will be useful. The first time I had an actual Feel No Pain in my deck, but the 2nd one I had a Demon Form and Gamblers Chip so I pretty much always played it turn 1. Corruption, Dead Branch, and Charon's Ashes is essentially a win condition against anything except the Time Keeper. Even then it's not a totally lost cause as long as you can get some solid powers or Fiend Fires under your belt.
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Feb 10, 2018 02:17
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Yeah, the thing about a Snecko run is that it really runs in the opposite direction of most deckbuilding mentality, so if you don't get it early (floor 1 or from a whale trade) then your deck is going to get absolutely wrecked by it.
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Feb 10, 2018 03:23
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Poulpe posted:Alright 4/4 times I've taken "Transform a Card" right off the bat my card has been transformed into Barricade, which I hate. Phenomenal luck. Luck that some people would kill for, mind you - Barricade can very easily make winning runs - but still really, really streaky and not to be relied on.
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Feb 10, 2018 06:12
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ninjewtsu posted:In my experience the ? Rooms on the first floor have way more card removal in them than subsequent floors. I try to mix it up on the first floor personally, and get some of both First floor ? has occasional card removal but very little card gain, so it's better late in the floor as opposed to early unless you're trying to milk a 1HP blessing to murder an elite (which, in my experience, has never worked). Second floor ? has your Cursed Book Of The Run but not much else, and third floor ? is only worth gunning for if your deck isn't the greatest (so you want to avoid fights) or if you just don't want to be arsed with fights (because most of the non-elites on the third floor are more obnoxious than difficult).
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Feb 12, 2018 00:09
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Stallion Cabana posted:2nd Floor also has Vampires, removing a card or upgrading all strikes and blocks, Begger Cleric to remove a card, Cursed Tomb for a free relic...not sure what else. I know the Vamps can show up later, Begger Cleric can show up earlier, and I think the Cursed Tomb can show up anywhere. I'm not sure if you can get the Necronomicon anywhere other than 2nd Floor. If someone has gotten it before or after that, I'd honestly love to know.
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Feb 12, 2018 00:28
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please knock Mom! posted:Basically shiv generation + card draw, or lots of damage + draw. Think lots of little packets of damage. Yeah, machinegun decks are all about spamming as many cards as possible, every single turn. With Silent this involves a huge pile of shiv cards, with Ironclad it's more about things like Anger where after a few turns of using it you have like 30 in your deck. Predictably, it is completely and totally shut down by Time Keeper pretty much immediately.
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Feb 12, 2018 01:50
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Yeah, Apotheosis is mostly for "I have all these cards that are only noteworthy when upgraded" (True Grit, Limit Break, Prepared, Noxious Fumes) combined with "I don't want to/can't use my campfire time upgrading cards" (say you pulled an early shovel, or are playing a huge deck). A lot of decks on no-ascension can get by with mostly unupgraded cards, and on higher ascension your gameplan is usually too tight to really risk needing to draw a single power in your opening turn to make your deck More Better. It's nice, but not essential like some people insist it is, especially on Ironclad who can do the job piecemeal with a single Armaments+.
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Feb 12, 2018 23:06
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Toshimo posted:To those who keep saying you can't just play 12 cards per turn and smash Time Eater in the face, here's my run where I just did that with 48 MAX HP. I take it the four Flexes helped immensely. Not much in the game can really stand up to someone slamming it in the face with +14 strength six to eight times in a turn. If anything, I feel like that makes me reevaluate my feelings on Flex, more than it makes me think Time Eater isn't actively hostile towards hand churn.
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Feb 13, 2018 03:29
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Stallion Cabana posted:I put Sozu and Mark over Dome until you 100% learn enemy patterns. Then I guess Dome is better. Minrad posted:Good news! from the latest beta branch: Honestly it sounds like they're trying to disincentivize Dome by making more dangerous enemies be pure RNG. Whether or not that's a good move is anyone's guess, but. I'd definitely say that Sozu is up with Dome in the "no major downsides" energy relics, though - Losing Regen/Strength/Dex potion use or clutch damage to rush a boss down sucks? But by the time you get to The Beyond none of it except well-played Regen will save an already failing run. Toshimo posted:Snecko Eye is only good if your average card cost is high enough. Mine almost never is. Yeah, I feel like you need to intentionally run a deck AROUND Snecko Eye and load up with expensive cards. It's actually not bad to slot into a Dead Branch/Corruption build, since Corruption overrides the eye's randomness, and the eye lets you potentially play the things like Bludgeon and Fiend Fire that you get, but otherwise most decks run on the low-energy end of things naturally.
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Feb 13, 2018 22:52
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Corruption in particular really wants the Dead Branch (otherwise you run out of defense skills and dual wields, though sometimes that's not a bad thing, like if you're running Clash - but then you don't want Evolve because those Wounds get in the way) but Dark Embrace/Feel No Pain work just fine on their own with other exhausting cards like Fiend Fire, True Grit, and Havoc.
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Feb 13, 2018 23:40
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LifeLynx posted:I'm sort of worried about replayability as a roguelike. Not too much though. The two characters in the game are already pretty well balanced, and the developer admitted that too many new cards can't be added because they'd dilute the card pool and make archetypes difficult to draft. I could see this being solved by letting people pick from four cards instead of three with each card selection screen. There's literally a relic that does just that for you, so you'd have to reconceptualize a lot more than just card access. I think the proposed idea of "instead of adding new cards to existing classes, add new classes with different playstyles" is best for game longetivity, though being in early access we can't exactly see how that'll pan out until it happens. Ultima66 posted:Okay I've played enough into Ascension that I'm now at below 50% win rate with Silent. I don't know if I'd say Silent is inherently bad compared to Ironclad, but I really feel like Silent needs better upgrades. Too many Silent upgrades are just +3 damage or armor, while I feel like Ironclad gets much more transformational upgrades like +1 card Pommel Strike and 0 cost Body Slam. Mind you I just started the game recently so I'm on 2 tiers of unlocks playing A3 and I see that 7 damage on discard card on every card pick when the card isn't strong enough to really bust discard decks open by itself. A lot of Silent's card upgrades are just straight block/damage bumps, yeah, which I think plays into the fact that Silent plays into a bigger deck much easier, but bigger decks are harder to properly upgrade. Unfortunately, Ironclad is the one who gets Armaments, when the effect really synergizes better with the Silent taking big decks. The thing about Silent discard decks is that they're less about cards (though Tactician and Reflex are cornerstones and need to be in most discard decks) and more about card churn. Relics help boost your output (there's relics that give you +3 Block or do 3 damage to enemies whenever you discard that are absolutely top priorities when running a discard deck) but really, a proper Silent discard deck is also a proper Silent draw deck. The general idea is to start playing and removing enough Tacticians and Reflexes to fuel whatever you drat well want to do, while at the same time more or less keeping you safe from curses and statuses by punting them out of the way.
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Feb 15, 2018 09:14
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Ghost Head posted:Jesus christ that trio of slavers in the second floor elite pool is absolute dogshit. I would take Nemesis any day over having to deal with that garbage. I don't know what the rationale was when that encounter was being designed. They hit you for high 20s to low 30s every single turn. They're basically an extension of the triangles, in that they're a trio of hard-hitting enemies that have relatively anemic health pools (compared to other elites) but make up for it in numbers. They crumble pretty quickly to AoE damage, though admittedly very few decks build into that what with the rarity of Whirlwind or Die Die Die, respectively. While we're talking about Absolute Dogshit in the city, though, I am sick and loving tired of the death orb being my first fight in the floor; it pretty much guarantees I'll end up taking some (or often, a lot) of damage before I can even really settle into the floor because I'm still largely relying on starter Strikes and Defends to pad out my deck and those don't do poo poo versus barricade and a 5-turn frail, respectively. KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 09:23 on Feb 15, 2018 |
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Feb 15, 2018 09:21
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Artelier posted:For me  Burning Blood never stops being significant, and it even gets an upgrade in the boss pool. Ring of the Snake is nice, but it doesn't help you play those extra cards you draw, and you can still get screwed early on and take some hits with a bad draw. Passive HP regen after a battle means you can take a few scrapes and still come out okay, or if you get bashed around a bit, a perfect fight or two will patch you right up. On the other hand, the Silent has a battle of attrition that they're prepared to lose from the get-go, given that the initial two or three fights with your starter cards are a nightmare to get through without taking at least a few cuts and bruises. tl;dr: the Ironclad's starting relic is too good to ever consider tossing to the whale, whereas losing the Silent's isn't going to make or break a run on its own.
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Feb 15, 2018 12:09
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junan_paalla posted:It's busted because it lets you make plays no other relic will, and it's divisive because of the randomness. And I love it. Yeah, it basically offers the Ring of the Snake's bonus every turn, and completely throws a wrench in the actual game balance. Imagine if an actual card game like MtG had a card in one of its expansions that said "roll a d6 whenever you draw a card, that's the card's cost for this turn". Suddenly the energy economy in the game has been completely and utterly disemboweled. Or you could get bad rolls and end up RNG screwed, if you don't draw the card soon enough or if you draw it too soon and don't have the power cards to use with it.
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Feb 15, 2018 13:36
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Minrad posted:my own thoughts on snake ring vs burning blood: True, but it’s worth noting that the common heal-for-2 relic is also a free ticket into Bitetown with no MaxHP loss. It’s reliant on you chancing into that event, but Bite is enough of a straight upgrade to your starting Strikes that unless you’ve pruned the hell out of your deck it’s a significant power boost.
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Feb 15, 2018 15:09
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Alkydere posted:Likely fatter than what most of y'all recommend, Out of all the potential Ironclad builds, exhaust decks are by far the easiest to let get fat, because it only takes a turn or two to trim them down to the point that you're playing your best cards every turn. Unless you get a Dead Branch, in which case every card is your best card.
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Feb 16, 2018 17:03
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